thinkpink: hello - former PPer

[thinkpink]

Hello everyone, 

 

Ive come over from Paxil Progress. I didnt realise it was closing but I heard this site was very good for support so I have come across, hoping to see some of the old names from PP. Am still figuring out how to put my signature on. 

 

pink. 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Pinkie-- I'm so glad you were able to make it over, there  are quite a few of us PP refuges and SA is making us feel quite welcome.  The site is is a bit different but there is a ton of great information.

 

((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))))

[mammaP]

Hi Thinkpink, welcome to SA.  I'm glad you found us so you can be among your pp buddies, we are

a friendly bunch here. As BM said, we do things a bit differently here but we are a friendly bunch . 

 

There is a link in my signature that tells you how to create a sig. 

[thinkpink]

Thanks guys, great to see some friendly faces! Brassmonkey whenever I think of you I remember the brass monkey slide  Thanks MammaP for your link to sig.

 

pink.

[Ever]

Hiya Pink!   Welcome - there are loads of us here now.  There's a thread here called 'Paxil Progress is closing', where you can see many others who have landed here. 

[thinkpink]

Hi everyone, im not sure if Ive posted this in the correct place and I feel s bit embarrassed to share this with others but Im doing a slow wean from paxil/ seroxat and Im having some really odd and unsettling thoughts. I should say here that ive been on seroxat for over 12 years, prescribed for anxiety. I have been doing the slow 10% taper and its taken almost 2 years to get from 20mg to 8.6 ( I took a 5 month break last year). The thoughts im having are intrusive and quite distressing for example I will be walking down the road and suddenly have this compusion to run towards the traffic. On an escalor in a mall recently I had this sudden urge to leap off. This distressed me so much that I went into panic mode and I thought I was going to collapse through fear. I am also very jumpy and irritable and my mood is very low. Im sorry if I have writtrn too much here. Just grateful to know if anyone has experienced similar? Im familiar with the physical symptoms of withdrawal but im really puzzled by what's causing this and im terrified im going to loose control. I am determined to come off this drug and in truth I never thought id get this far, im just terrified now to take the next drop.

[ten0275]

YES! oh, i had these intrusives terribly - horridly! they weren't just thoughts - it was like this very physical-feeling pull to drive off the road, jump in front of a car or train, swallow a razor, etc. mine stretched into other weird things like the intrusive thought to throw hot tea on co-workers as i walked past their desks, drive my car into groups of people, etc. it was my WORST symptom. it was terrifying. and guess what - it went away. it is totally a manifestation of withdrawal. it is almost like a form of withdrawal-induced OCD. hang in there.

 

Dave

[thinkpink]

Dave thank you so much for your reply, yes you've described that much better than I could. Yes its a kind of physical sensation too, its hideous because now im anxious about those kind of thoughts/ moments which probably doesnt help. Did you taper off your meds? Were you able to keep dropping a dose inspite of these thoughts? Thanks. Pink

[ten0275]

pink, hi. i rapidly tapered off the benzos i was on (basically slow enough so i wouldn't run the risk of seizures) and i am still slow-tapering from my AD - getting towards the end of the process. i was totally able to keep dropping while the thoughts prevailed. and at a certain point, i started noticing that they were becoming less. then they basically disappeared. ugh... i remember that tug, that urge - like i was physically being drawn to the thing i thought/feared. question for you - and you can totally PM me if you don't want to discuss this on the broader board, but what do you fear most about the thoughts? hang in there. intrusive thoughts are a bad deal, but at the end of the day, they are thoughts. i have some tricks that helped me through.

 

dave

[nz11]

I had these kind of thoughts too. Very much so.

I think its part of whats called akathisia.

I would be the last person in the world to commit suicide but the thoughts werent just a fleeting thought they were an overwhelming push to self destruction imo. Yes i had the 'want to jump in front of traffic' so much so i would go for a walk but keep away from main roads. Then i had the 'go hang yourself thoughts' then there was the 'buy a gun and shoot yourself thoughts' and i will never forget the day i drove circling a bridge twice fighting back the 'jump off the bridge into the traffic ' thought ...then there was the cut your wrists thoughts ...it just went on and on. No sooner had i fought off a thought and the next day a new angle would persue me. ...for weeks. i would just chant back at them .saying 'no thats not right'.

and say ...'its not me its the drug'...it was horrifying at times .

It may be best to slow the taper ..i would slow it to  5% imo  

These lower doses are proving to be real hurdles for long term users.  

[thinkpink]

Thanks dave. Have messaged you.

[thinkpink]

Thank you nz11, really appreciate your thoughs. Yes I hadnt thought of doing a smaller drop, perhaps thats something to try. Gosh its taken so long even to get to this point, its like a never ending journey. The thoughts are very frightening. It is comforting to know that othets have had similar. Thank you.

[mammaP]

Hi Thinkpink, I have had those feelings too and they are overwhelming. I called them compulsions

rather than thoughts, they were so overpowering it was terrifying. I had no idea what the drugs were doing

to me and didn't know about withdrawal either. I was sectioned and put on close watch for a month, couldn't 

even go for a pee without someone standing over me! That was 20 years ago and I have had similar feelings 

in withdrawal from effexor but now I know what it is and can deal with it. 

 

You are not alone and not going mad, knowing what it is makes a huge difference! I would hold for a few months

again to stabilise, it will stop and get better, your brain needs some time to catch up with the tapering. You've

done well and tapered slowly but some people just need to go slower at the lower doses. I hope the feelings get 

better soon, I know how distressing they are. 

 

I merged the new topic with your original intro thread, it is one thread per person in introductions to keep everything 

in one place. 

[brassmonkey]

Hi pinkie--  I remember those thoughts so well.  My most common was when I was cooking "I could take this big sharp butcher knife and drive it very deep into my wrist, or some one else, what does it matter." or "why don't I just beat the c*** out of that unsuspecting person", "If I move my foot a little I could trip this person down this long flight of stairs".  The knife one was the scariest self destructive one, that and dealing with some of the chemicals at work. The rest were vary inappropriately violent toward other people.  Usually they were quickly followed by "what the h*** am I thinking that for?" and the matter was dropped.  I've had really weird thoughts all my life so they didn't bother me all that much, but they did give me pause because they just came out of the blue.  After a while I would recognize that they were WD driven and wouldn't pay anymore attention to them than to acknowledge them and then let them go.  Since I got under 5mg I haven't been having them any more.  I do remember that the area around 8mg was pretty tough though.  But things did get better.

 

(((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))))

[thinkpink]

Thanks mammaP, really appreciate your post. Im sorry you went through such a tricky time, glad you are okay now. Yes your right by calling in a complusion, its like an urge, a weird sensation. Im not sure what to do for the best, whether to hold at this dose or take a lower drop. Ive been thinking about it and I actually went through something very similar when I was on my full dose before I started withdrawing. I had some similar thoughts but they did pass so perhaps its not entirely withdrawal related after all.

[thinkpink]

Thanks brassmonkey, im glad they lessened for you. Perhaps there is some light at the end of the tunnel! Its really frightening to have these thoughts especially when they are out of character. Depending on the situation a lot of these complusions lead to panic attacks for me because im afraid of what im thinking/ feeling so its a vicious circle. I guess I sort of assumed that the thoughts would get worse as the medicine decreases, but this is not necessarily the case?

[ten0275]

 

I called them compulsions rather than thoughts, they were so overpowering it was terrifying.

 

mammaP, perfect! "compulsions" - absolutely. THAT is the term i will use going forward. when the thought has that quality of impetus to it, it is totally compulsion. that's what i dealt with too. well-put.

[Givemepeace]

Hi thinkpink,

 

I have being experiencing these exact symptoms since October, hellish symtoms.

 

Only tonight I was playing games with my 4 year old daughter on her ipad these strong urges of hurting myself come from nowhere!!??

What the hell is all that about???

 

I was posting on tens thread, and was lead to yours. This is the first time today from posting on here that someone has finally explained to me it is actually w/d and it will diminish in time!!

 

I don't know about you but hearing this has gave me such relief, I feared this symptom was forever and I would be locked away.

 

Please feel free to contact me if you are fearful or afraid...this thread and tens also has been a massive relief for me today.

 

Be strong in your healing.

 

Thank you

 

G

[brassmonkey]

Because they are out of character is how you know that they are not the real you.  WD does a lot of strange things to out minds, but underneath it all out core values remain intact.  By recognizing that they are not proper  you can step back and observe them, acknowledge them, accept that they are there, but they are not "yours" and then let them float off.  Give them their due but they are nothing to be afraid of if you let them go.

[thinkpink]

Thank you so much for all your replies, brassmonkey you are so right about core values. I have to recognise this isnt me and find a way to float through. Givemepeace, no you are not alone! And yes it is comforting to hear that others understand what we are experiencing. Feel free to message me anytime, and let me know how you go with your thoughts and experiences.

[thinkpink]

*post moved from  'What does stabilizing mean?' In tapering section

 

I have read this thread with great interest, I have often wondered what it means to 'hold' or stabilise. Both of these are the same thing arent they? Holding at your current doseage for a longer period of time to give your brain time to adjust and allow withdrawal symptoms to ease. This has been tricky for me because I last did a reduction in dec and felt funny for a few weeks, dizziness and nauseau. That eased but now two months on Im not feeling great and think maybe it could be wd related. is it possible for withdrawal symptoms to happen after two months? Im feeling weak and lethargic, may be totally unrelated but im worried its a late withdrawal reaction.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Petunia
added note

[Petunia]

Hi thinkpink,

I moved your post from the tapering section because it was an update and question about your own specific situation, its easier to answer these kinds of questions if we have all your information in one place.  You can use this thread as your ongoing journal to track progress, write about symptoms, ask questions and communicate with the community, add to it whenever you want, please bookmark it if you need to.

 

We need a few more details about your drug history, I see that you have reduced down from 20mg of paxil to 8.6mg using the 10% method.

 

 I should say here that ive been on seroxat for over 12 years, prescribed for anxiety. I have been doing the slow 10% taper and its taken almost 2 years to get from 20mg to 8.6 ( I took a 5 month break last year).

 

What dose were you on in December and what did you drop to?  Have you made any more cuts since? 

 

What symptoms are you having now? When did they start?

 

Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature.  Putting a short version of your drug and tapering history in your signature helps people understand your context, it appears below each of your posts.  Here are instructions for how to do it:

 

http://survivinganti...your-signature/

 

For the time being, I suggest you continue to hold until we get a clearer understanding of how you have been tapering, then we may be able to suggest something.

 

Petunia.

[thinkpink]

Hi Petunia, thank you for your reply. Ive been doing the 10% taper using liquid- and I did my last drop in Dec a few weeks before Christmas. I felt off for a couple of weeks but physically my health improved but since late Jan/ early Feb Ive been feeling generally low. I feel weak and have no energy. My head feels kinda weird (although this is so hard to describe) strange head sensations like pressure or like my brain is wobbling or vibrating in my head. I have had a lot of crying spells recently and my anxiety is much worse. Ive had lots of intrusive thoughts (which I posted about back in Jan). I guess Im wondering if all this may be wd related. Its been around 12 weeks since my last drop so I was expecting to feel okay by now. Should I be worried that Im experiencing these symptoms? Have been doing my drops pretty slowly to fit around daily life. Ive left several months between some drops. I know people experience windows and waves and I wonder if this may be a strange kinda drug related reaction? Im going to hold at this dose until I stabilise. The intrusive thoughts and panic are horrible. :-(

[Petunia]

Hi pink,

Thank you for clarifying your details and for filling in your signature.  Its difficult to say why you have started to have problems in your taper because it sounds like you have been very careful, going nice and slowly, listening to your body and symptoms for cues for when to do the next cut, this is all good.

 

From what I understand seroxat (paxil) is one of the harder drugs to come off and many people find that as the dose gets lower, it becomes more difficult.  Perhaps you could reduce your cuts to 5%.  What sometimes works in this situation is a micro-taper.  I will post a link, you may be interested:

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

 

You might also find this thread helpful:

 

The slowness of slow tapers

 

I agree that continuing to hold is a good idea, perhaps even consider a small updose, no more than 5% - 10% if you decide to try this.

 

Are you taking any supplements? Many people find  fish oil and magnesium helpful, see King of Supplements: Omega 3 Fatty Acids (Fish Oil) and Magnesium, Nature's Calcium Channel Blocker

 

I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this, I know what you're going through, having dealt with it all myself after my too fast taper back in 2010.

 

Hang in there and keep posting.

 

Petunia.

 

 

[thinkpink]

I did wonder whether it gets harder with each drop or whether some reductions are easier than others. I'm not sure why I feel this way since I feel I've been going pretty slow and steady so far. I'm really reluctant to up dose. How will I know if and when I need to do this? At the moment although its hard I feel like I am managing and I guess I will have to stick it out and see what happens over time. Thanks for the links with all the info, I haven't tried any specific supplements as yet although I do eat a lot of omega 3 naturally in my diet- mainly through flax, chia seed and salmon. Petunia, can you answer this for me- are windows and wave just experienced by people who have come off meds completely or are they also experienced by people still on drugs going through withdrawal? Thank you. 

[brassmonkey]

When I say that you are at 8.6mg my first thought was "this sounds really familiar".  I got hit with much stronger symptoms from there down to about 5mg.  Then got a bit of relief for a couple of drops.  Thinking back I have heard a lot of people mention having more trouble than usual right about there.  I agree, it looks like you have been doing everything right, it is just that this darn WD is so unpredictable. Some drops will be very smooth then out of the blue the next is a bear.  The window and wave cycle shows up all through tapering and then can continue on after jumping off.  I started getting small windows in the mid teens.  They only lasted a few minutes to an hour, but during that time I really felt good.  Then I would slide back into the obis for a few weeks.  But the good moments kept getting longer and now can last for days at a time.  There are some graphs floating around here someplace that show how in the 8 and below range a very small change in dose causes a very large change in the effectiveness of the drug.  This points out the need to go slow, make small changes and really listen to what your body it telling you.  Most importantly don't panic and make rash changes.  Your brain needs as much consistency as possible right now. Hope you're feeling better tomorrow.

 

(((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))))))))))

[thinkpink]

Thankyou Brassmonkey, I really appreciate your response so thankyou for taking the time to share your thoughts. Thats really interesting what you say about the 8mg marker- I didnt realise that was the point that some meds start to loose effectiveness. Would be really interested to see those charts you mention if you or anyone else can point me in the right direction? I think my biggest issue right now is feeling weak and fatigued, I keep pretty active usually but its so hard right now because I am weak and have no energy. Its a mystery to me whats causing this- I really dont know if its meds related or something totally different. Either way my panic attacks/intrusive thoughts are much worse so I think that is almost certainly a reduction thing. Its so damn hard this process! So far I have been fortunate in that I havent had to updose but Im wondering if at some point I may need to. Only I can answer that I guess, I just hope that if I stay at this dose longer symptoms (assuming wd related) may ease. Thanks Brassmonkey for your post, really appreciate your advice :-)

[brassmonkey]

Here is a link I found for the charts.  They don't deal directly with paxil but are pretty much the same thing.  You can see that things drop start changing really fast when you get below a dose of 8-10mg.

 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/f3h1ao5ijfj93/papers#0yp2c8pbjrziaab

[thinkpink]

*topic moved from symptoms forum

 

Hi everyone, Ive been experiencing some very frightening and unusual symptoms recently (since Feb) which are currently being investigated by my doctor. Im wondering if what Im expetiencing may either be withdrawal related or some kind of reaction to less paxil in my system. Basically I keep having these very distinct 'episodes'. Ive been keeping a diary of when I have them and there appears to be no obvious trigger. They happen suddenly and without warning. I suddenly feel very weak and disorientated, my heart starts to beat incredibly fast and I feel like Im going to collspse. I get an intense rush of symptoms- most recently tingling and numbness which went down my left arm and leg and across my lip. There was also a weird sensation of heat in my hands. These symptoms are weird Because I experience them like waves. These symptoms are really intense and then they ease off a little..and bam! It comes back again. Each time I think Im going to collapse. My doc was sympathetic as I was tertified I was having a stroke- she checked me over- my speech, coordination and reflexes and everything fine. She suspects it may be some migraine type symptom (without the Headache) but im not so sure. I wonder if these episodes are anyway related to the Paxil. I know what im describing sounds a lot like a panic attack but this is definitely different. The heat/numbness and light headed feeling is awful. Ive thought everything recently, maybe my heart or a stroke, maybe epilepsy or maybe my nervous system is fragile. I havent dropped a dose since way back in dec, so maybe its unrelated to the meds. I am seeing a neurologist soon. Does anyone here recognise any of these symptoms?

Edited May 31, 2015 by Petunia
added note

[Frustrated]

I am a paxil survivor as well and have these very same attacks. My heart has been checked and I see a cardiologist but nothing has been found wrong with my heart. I get what I call whooshes of adrenaline that shoot through my chest and up my throat and my heart races and I feel tingly and short of breath and terrified. I definitely think it could be WD from Paxil. I am ten months in and still have these episodes but not as frequently.

[Jlynn]

I had very similar symptoms going on that came from my fast taper. They also came on out of nowhere with no real reason. I would bet it is from the Paxil w/d. The numbness, tingling, heat flashes, anxiety, and dizziness were all things I had and my doctor also checked me for a stroke. They have started to dissipate after I reinstated so I know they were from my to fast taper. 

[Jaywill]

I have been going through the same stuff. I am 32 months off and spent a week in hospital in October with many different symptoms. I can totally relate with everything you are talking about. The crazy thing is that what happened with me was one type of symptom would stop and something else would start. I pray your healing is easier than mine because Paxil is hell

[thinkpink]

Thanks all for your replies. The sudden start of these symptoms is what makes it so scary- it's a very real rush of symptoms and on a couple of occasions Ive thought of calling 999 as Ive felt so bad. I just really pray that however upsetting these symptoms are, they are not dangerous. Ive been doing a slow 10% taper, have been holding at my current dose since dec, not sure what to do now, dont really want to reinstate at this point, maybe if I wait here longer the symptoms may lessen (assuming its connected to the meds) silver star, I had my heart checked last May too- was having palpitations and everything came back fine. The first of these 'episodes' happened for me around 2 months after my last reduction. I am hoping that if I hold at this dose longer Im going to give my brain time to 'breathe' and hopefully even out a little.

[Fresh]

Hi thinkpink ,   it sounds like w/d symptoms to me too.  The tingling and numbness are called parasthesia.

As you go lower than 10mg , a 1mg decrease is more than 10%.   Try to decrease by 10% of the current dose.

 

Hopefully if you sit at your current level these symptoms will start to disappear.   And you're right , they're disconcerting but not dangerous.

[thinkpink]

Hi Silverstar, thanks for your reply. As far as Im aware Ive been making 10% cuts each time. Im following a withdrawal plan someone posted on pp a while back. The reduction between 10.6 and 9.6 should be 1.1mg then from 9.6 down to 8.6mg is 1mg. Oh god have I been doing this wrong??

[Altostrata]

Those are very common symptom patterns in withdrawal syndrome. See

 

Papers on diagnosis of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist (PDF)
 
Is it relapse or withdrawal?