thinkpink: hello - former PPer

[ChessieCat]

Magnesium and omega 3 fish oil are the only supplements which SA recommends.  Try a small amount, one at a time to see how you react.

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

Results for a google search for:  survivingantidepressants.org supplements

 

There are many existing topics for various things on this site.  If you are considering specific supplements or vitamins etc use google and add survivingantidepressants.org to the search term (like the search I provided the link for)

[thinkpink]

Thanks so much Chessie Cat- really appreciate your reply. I wasn't sure whether it was okay to be taking supplements with the paxil- looks like I'm on the right track with the mag and omega 3- thank you.

[ChessieCat]

You're welcome.  I glad I could be of assistance.

 

Please update your drug signature.  Thank you.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

[Altostrata]

How are you doing now, Thinkpink?

[thinkpink]

Windows and waves post Paxil? (1 yr off)

 

Hello everyone- my apologies if Im posting this in the wrong place- its been a while since I last visited the site, I hope everyone is doing okay. 

 

I just wanted to share an update since I'm now off Paxil. I took it for a total of 17 years (20mg) and I did a really slow taper using liquid over a period of 7 years. I have now been off it completely for just over 12 months. The first 2 months after stopping I actually felt okay but around the three months mark I started having some problems particularly around pain and fatigue and this is still ongoing. I'm trying to be patient and gentle with myself as I understand for some of us these things can take time to ease.

 

I have days when I feel okay- I'm able to go for a walk for example or sit in a coffee shop no problem then other days I am totally floored by a lack of energy and a feeling of weakness- similar to what you might feel recovering from a bout of flu, I just feel totally drained almost to the point of feeling light headed with very little energy. (I have felt faint on occasion whilst out grocery shopping)  Even gentle exercise becomes incredibly difficult when I feel this way and on these days I have to give in to it and just rest. I can't predict what days I will feel like this- it seems random and symptoms seem to come and go to their own agenda. In addition to the fatigue the other main issue Im experiencing is pain in both my thighs (like a deep ache) and also tingling/parathesia in my lower legs- again these sensations come and go. 

 

I had a heart monitor fitted for a week last year before christmas- this came back normal (although somewhat typically whilst wearing the monitor I didn't have symptoms) and my glucose levels have been checked and thats also fine. I do occasionally have low iron due to being Coeliac but for that I take a gentle iron supplement. Does what Im describing sound like windows and waves? Would this explain why some days Im okay and others I feel dreadful?!  I don't want to label my symptoms but my interpretation is that Im experiencing a kind of fibro/ CFS type response. Can this still happen even after a slow taper? Thank you. 

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[ChessieCat]

Hi thinkpink and welcome back.  I moved your post to your Introduction topic.  This keeps your history in one place.

 

Please update your drug signature so that we can see the reductions you made and the last dose and date.  Thank you.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Please check out this topic, especially the post on "It Doesn't End at 0".  There is an index in Post #1.

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

There is also this topic:

 

experiences-after-tapering-to-zero-and-symptom-management

 

Some members have mentioned post withdrawal CFS like symptoms:

 

chronic-fatigue-syndrome-me-cfs

 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Thinkpink-- congratulations on being a year post "0". That first year off can be a rather frustrating time because we've made it to "0" but we are still getting symptoms. It takes a while for the body to recover from the whole WD experience.  What you are describing is pretty common, I went through a lot of the same things, the fatigue, lack of energy, pain and the late breaking waves. As you go along things will get better, please remember that you've put your body through a lot over the past years and it needs some time to recover and regain its strength. WD doesn't stop at "0" but it does get a whole lot better and the further out you get the better things become. Treat yourself kindly and let the healing happen.

[thinkpink]

Thank you both ChessieCat and Brassmonkey for your replies. I sometimes feel so alone with all this so its sort of reassuring to know theres a community of us experiencing similar things. It seems so strange to me that I can have days of being quite functional contrasting with other days when even the smallest of tasks become really difficult. I think perhaps I'm in a sort of wave now as symptoms have flared again. Thank you both for taking the time to respond, its much appreciated. pink x

[thinkpink]

My dr called me this morning- I had some bloods taken recently- everything has come back normal. Iron, Vitamin D, B12 and folate all fine. She also tested for Diabetes- this was negative. Difficult to know where to go with this now- I explained to her I think my fatigue and pain is connected to Seroxat withdrawal. She has said she can refer me on to another dr who specialises in vague symptoms I said I would think on this, I'm not sure whether its worth being referred on or not, I don't want them to stamp my medical file as 'medically unexplained' 😞  She also said they could prescribe Amitriptyline(!!) for my thigh pain- I said no thank you. In some ways its encouraging that my bloods are normal, Im just finding it hard because I sometimes feel no one believes me that this is withdrawal related. 

[ChessieCat]

I'm glad you said no thank you to the Amitriptyline!

 

Please update your drug signature with your dates and doses.  Thank you.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

[ChessieCat]

Would you mind telling us how old you are?

[thinkpink]

Hi ChessieCat, 

 

Sure. I'm 36. My apologies I still haven't updated my signature- my doses towards the end all got a little hazy, I keep meaning to dig my notes out to work out the dates and the reductions. Chessie if you don't mind me asking, how do you know the difference between windows and waves and when something is just a permanent issue? For example as I stopped seroxat last June, should windows and waves be done within a year? I still don't know whether this is a bad wave for me (but as its lasted around 5/6 weeks) I'm guessing a wave wouldn't last that long??

[ChessieCat]

3 minutes ago, thinkpink said:

My apologies I still haven't updated my signature- my doses towards the end all got a little hazy, I keep meaning to dig my notes out to work out the dates and the reductions.

 

3 minutes ago, thinkpink said:

I stopped seroxat last June

 

We can see that you were tapering carefully from the existing signature.  What would be helpful is if you could add the last dose you took before you went to zero and then the date (month year is fine) when you stopped.  Thanks.

 

5 minutes ago, thinkpink said:

Sure. I'm 36.

 

Thanks.  My reason for asking was I was wondering if you were nearing menopause.

 

7 minutes ago, thinkpink said:

how do you know the difference between windows and waves and when something is just a permanent issue?

 

Did you read this?  It Doesn’t end at “0”  It was written by BrassMonkey who has followed the journeys of many members here at SA and elsewhere over a long period of time.

 

And these:

 

Things to do Along the Way

 

So, When Will We Get There?

 

Since the beginning of this year we have other members here posting that they are experiencing unexpected/worse waves.  It is possible that the added stress of this situation may be the cause.  It's very hard not be affected in some way by what is happening worldwide.

 

Are you getting regular gentle exercise?  Are you eating a healthy diet?  Are you getting adequate sleep?  Have you incorporated self care techniques like relaxation into your day?

 

I suggest you check out the success stories.  success-stories-recovery-from-withdrawal

 

A wave can last as long as it wants to.  The brain is trying very hard to put this in order.

 

You might find these helpful:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

  

On 12/27/2015 at 6:37 AM, Altostrata said:

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made. 

 

 

 

 

 

[thinkpink]

Thank you ChessieCat for getting back to me and thank you for the links, I will definitely read these, thank you. I did read 'it doesn't end at 0' and there's some really useful stuff in there so thanks BrassMonkey for writing that. I do have a lot of things going on in my life right now so that probably doesn't help! The fatigue and tingling are pretty tough at times but you're right about self care, I'm trying to be more mindful of this. I used to walk regularly but even that has been trickier recently due to the lack of energy. I eat reasonably well but of course there is always room for improvement. 

 

Im really frustrated with myself because I can't find the exact dosages and dates for the last year of my taper. Im not even sure why I didn't record this. I'm ashamed to say I can't be certain what the last dosage was before I stopped. I used to keep records of all this but somewhere along the line it gets a bit hazy . I've gone through my notes and I think the last dosage I took before stopping was 0.8mg but it could have been lower, possibly 0.4mg either way it was definitely below 1mg.  I had been tapering for 7 years and my doctor who was incredibly supportive helped me along the way. When I finally went to 0 last June it felt like the right time to do it.

 

[ChessieCat]

8 hours ago, thinkpink said:

I think the last dosage I took before stopping was 0.8mg but it could have been lower, possibly 0.4mg

 

Even though you did a slow and careful taper your jump off dose was still fairly high, even if your last dose was 0.4mg.

 

That being the case, it would seem "reasonable" (based on observations) to expect that it could take a fair amount of time post zero for things to finally get to a more settled state.

 

8 hours ago, thinkpink said:

I do have a lot of things going on in my life right now so that probably doesn't help!

 

And this will definitely not be helping.  It is very easy to think that yay, I've done a careful taper and I'm off the drug now.  But the brain still has adjustments to make.  It is going to take time.  And we don't know how much time it will take.

 

I suggest you have a read of BrassMonkey's post zero experience after tapering Paxil.  It took several years after stopping for things to be more normal overall.  And he did a  7  5.5 year taper using what has been nicknamed the BrassMonkey Slide, reducing by 10% over a 4 week period (2.5% each week) than holding for an additional 2 weeks, so 10% over a 6 week period, and holding for longer if his symptoms needed more time to abate. He also went down to an incredibly low dose before stopping.  It got to the stage that he weighed the lowest crushed powder that he could and then divided it by hand.

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by ChessieCat

[Altostrata]

Paroxetine is very difficult to go off, please don't blame yourself.

 

What is your current daily symptom pattern?

 

Have you tried fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Many find them helpful. You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

[thinkpink]

Thank you ChessieCat and Alto, I really appreciate your replies, thank you. Yes its hard sometimes not to self blame and think you've done it all wrong!  I've tried journaling symptoms and I'm not seeing any particular pattern. The last couple of months seem to have been particularly difficult especially with my energy levels and the tingling sensations. I guess its a kind of fibre/cfs type issue but of course I realise its likely a withdrawal induced thing and I hope with time and patience it will improve. When symptoms are at their worst its almost like having a bout of flu- I just feel totally washed out and achey and like I need to lie down. I was out just a few weeks back and it took effort just to stand upright, my body just needed to rest and sit down but I wasn't doing anything particularly exerting. 

 

I think my sleep is generally okay but I've noticed that on some nights I do sleep much deeper than others (and wake more refreshed) which would suggest that on the other nights Im not sleeping as well as I think I am or perhaps my sleep isn't usually that restful if that makes sense? I did sip a baby aspirin in water the other night and it may be a coincidence but I slept really well. 

 

Thanks Alto for the mention about omega 3 and magnesium- yes I do take both of these. I take a dissolvable mag citrate which I really like, I used to take it a couple of times a day now I only have it maybe 2/3 times a week. I find it quite soothing and gentle and good for relaxation. 

 

My best friends hubby who is quite knowledgeable about different medications wonders if there is a link between stopping SSRI's and blood thickness since SSRI's can thin the blood and so when we stop the blood could become thicker and this could cause neurological symptoms? Does this sound at all plausible? Has anyone come across this?

 

Thanks ChessieCat for the note about past zero experiences. I've read with paxil for some people it can take several years for things to get back on track. I realise we are all different but it seems to be true that a lot of us have to wait it out a while after stopping. What a horrible drug this is x

[thinkpink]

Memory issues stopping Seroxat / Paxil / paroxetine

 

Feel so strange at the moment, honestly didn't know where to post as don't know if this is my memory or something like derealisation but am freaking out a little as I feel so strange. Have been off Seroxat 14 months, I got hit with lots of fatigue and pain but that seems to have passed (at least for now). These last couple of weeks I'm noticing I feel disconnected from myself and my current life. I find this really hard to explain. When I look back over the last 10 years the places I've been and the things I've done, it actually doesn't feel like me. To think of it now it feels surreal. I know it was me! But I feel odd and disconnected. I actually drove home the other night thinking "what the hell am I doing here" almost like the years have flashed by and I'm gone majorly off course in life and I don't know how I ended up here! I guess I'm worried at this point my memory is affected. I know stopping Seroxat can do strange things so I'm hoping this will pass, I just feel kinda weird but I'm not even sure I'm describing this that well. Is this part of a reawakening after coming off drugs? Is something in my brain trying to fix itself? It's quite disturbing feeling so dream like all the time and I'm struggling accepting who and where I was a few years ago as it just doesn't feel like me. This is so weird. 

 

 

Pink 

Edited November 22, 2020 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[ChessieCat]

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

 

 

[Cocopuffz17]

On 10/4/2020 at 3:25 PM, thinkpink said:

Memory issues stopping Seroxat / Paxil / paroxetine

 

Feel so strange at the moment, honestly didn't know where to post as don't know if this is my memory or something like derealisation but am freaking out a little as I feel so strange. Have been off Seroxat 14 months, I got hit with lots of fatigue and pain but that seems to have passed (at least for now). These last couple of weeks I'm noticing I feel disconnected from myself and my current life. I find this really hard to explain. When I look back over the last 10 years the places I've been and the things I've done, it actually doesn't feel like me. To think of it now it feels surreal. I know it was me! But I feel odd and disconnected. I actually drove home the other night thinking "what the hell am I doing here" almost like the years have flashed by and I'm gone majorly off course in life and I don't know how I ended up here! I guess I'm worried at this point my memory is affected. I know stopping Seroxat can do strange things so I'm hoping this will pass, I just feel kinda weird but I'm not even sure I'm describing this that well. Is this part of a reawakening after coming off drugs? Is something in my brain trying to fix itself? It's quite disturbing feeling so dream like all the time and I'm struggling accepting who and where I was a few years ago as it just doesn't feel like me. This is so weird. 

 

 

Pink 

 

 

I know exactly how you feel. I have had similar thoughts recently about the last 10++ years being a blur and not really being emotionally attached to them at all. It does get better though!

 

On 8/5/2020 at 4:00 AM, thinkpink said:

My best friends hubby who is quite knowledgeable about different medications wonders if there is a link between stopping SSRI's and blood thickness since SSRI's can thin the blood and so when we stop the blood could become thicker and this could cause neurological symptoms? Does this sound at all plausible? Has anyone come across this?

 

 

I would love to know more on that. I know when I was on paroxetine my blood would take forever to clot and once I came off of it returned back to normal. One of the many side effects of this medication. 

[thinkpink]

Thank you Cocopuffz17 for your reply, Its good to know I'm not on my own in experiencing this although Im sorry that you also had problems with paroxetine. I just had a look at your signature and see you took Paroxetine 20mg for 11 years is that right? Congrats on coming off. Can I ask how you are feeling now?

 

Pink ☺️

[Cocopuffz17]

5 hours ago, thinkpink said:

Thank you Cocopuffz17 for your reply, Its good to know I'm not on my own in experiencing this although Im sorry that you also had problems with paroxetine. I just had a look at your signature and see you took Paroxetine 20mg for 11 years is that right? Congrats on coming off. Can I ask how you are feeling now?

 

Pink ☺️

Hey, I am doing fairly well. I get minor symptoms somedays but am getting through!! 

[Nugget97]

Hey @thinkpink did your derealisation ever go away or improve? I’m 3 months off and have noticed this week that I am experiencing exactly how you were feeling with derealisation! Hoping it goes soon! 

[thinkpink]

Hey Nugget97, how are you doing? The derealisation is still there but I find that it comes and goes. Some times its more apparent than others. It can be a strange feeling can't it? I sometimes feel quite disconnected and a bit out of it almost, it can be quite a difficult thing to describe. My symptoms at the moment seem more physical like pain and fatigue. My understanding is that it can be quite common for derealisation to come and go after stopping so hopefully in time this will improve for you.

[Nugget97]

Hey @thinkpink thanks for chipping in. I’m doing okay. I still have tingling I think it’s like chemical anxiety and feeling overly emotional. I usually wake up with no derealisation so for me it does come and go like gets worse in the evening. I’m definitely a bit more on edge at night with it. To be fair I have only had it 3 days so far but it can be quite disturbing especially at night. I feel the exact same way as you -feeling disconnected and out of it and such intense brain fog. I have only had it one or two days before it came back full force. Some of the horror stories I have read on on the derealisation forum scared me but I do know like all my other symptoms this will go too as I haven’t had it from the beginning and it’s just popped up without any trigger. Did you start getting derealisation as soon as you came off or did it pop up out fo nowhere for you too? 

[thinkpink]

The derealisation came later on for me, it didn't pop up straight away. I remember being in a store once doing my shopping and I felt so strange. So disconnected from myself and everything around me, it was just the oddest thing and I felt like I had to get out of the store and get home quickly! I actually made a mug of camomile tea, got into bed and just sort of made myself comfortable and cosy and just tried to relax and remind myself that I'm safe. It can be quite frightening but its just another sensation and I personally found anything relaxing/grounding to be helpful. Sometimes to be in a quiet place is easier than when its busy or loud (or so I found) Maybe at night time if it hits you worse could you try listening to something on headphones like maybe a meditation or soothing music? I sometimes have trouble sleeping and I've been playing the sound of ocean waves at night time as some how this helps me relax and sleep- may not work for everyone but its helped me  Also do you ever listen to ASMR? That can be quite grounding too. Hope you find something thats helpful for you. Ive personally found this symptom sort of comes and goes and it doesn't bother me too much now as I know what it is. I think a lot of people get this and it can sort of come and go. 

[Nugget97]

Thanks for all that info! I actually haven’t really been doing any techniques to help with derealisation so il look into all that. I actually have never heard of ASMR so il defo take a look into that too! Thanks so much for all the suggestions really appreciate it. Yes to be honest I think because it’s really the first time I’ve properly notice it for a long period of time it’s just a little scary but after a while when it goes and if it comes back and has a pattern of coming and going I say it’s not too scary as you are used to it and know it will keep going. I know you said you are used to it and it doesn’t bother you now but I do hope it eventually goes for you! 🤍 do you have other symptoms currently with it? 

[Edmunds]

Hello again @Nugget97 The intense DR I’m experiencing right now—disconnect from the world in front of my eyes, invisible veil or glass pane, and recently a visual perception of colors being brighter than normal—is deeply interwoven with the anxiety symptoms that come, go, and change as part of WD.  I’m confident that as the anxiety eases up so will the DR. The visual DR is also complicated by the fact that I’ve had a condition of double vision (strabismus) that has progressed slowly over the past decade and can no longer be corrected with special glasses with prisms in the lenses. My vision is also fuzzy. So tomorrow at long last I’m having strabismus surgery, an hour or so outpatient procedure in which the surgeon adjusts the muscles on the sides of my eyes that control their alignment. I will see what benefit this surgery might have for my WD related anxiety. 
For understanding DR I’ve benefited from a book titled Overcoming Depersonalization Disorder by Fugen Neziroglu and another author, Katherine somebody. The authors discuss both DP and DR, but they refer to both as depersonalization for simplicity. The book reassured me by showing me that as strange and disturbing as DR can feel, it is a response to trauma. And WD itself is a type of traumatic experience. 
In my case I grew up with the complex trauma from a parent who was not physically abusive but asserted overwhelming control over me, an only child. I started having DR periods my second year at university. This is a classic pattern. If you don’t have a long history of it, you will no doubt get relief as your WD recovery proceeds. 
There’s no handy-dandy pill for DP/DR, but it’s treatable with therapy. Also low dose naltrexone shows some promise, but I don’t want to try any new drug until I’ve recovered from DR. 

[Nugget97]

Hey again @Edmunds  thanks for the extra info! My derealisation thankfully has actually improved in the last 24 hours, still there lingering but not half as bad sometimes so I think it’s starting to fade out, at least from time to time. Thanks for the book recommendation too! I know that it may come and go as part of withdrawal but eventually like you said because I don’t have any history with it before it will eventually go like all the other symptoms of withdrawal. It can definitely be scary at first though! Yep you’re right about withdrawal being a trauma I can definitely tell it’s due to the increased anxiety and trauma from withdrawal when you think about it, it completely makes sense. I can definitely see my symptoms easing up as well as my derealisation (for the time being anyway) so I know I’m definitely healing so hoping in the next few months il continue to recover and get out of this. I wish you the best of luck with your surgery I really hope it makes a difference and that your anxiety eases up so your derealisation is a lot less severe! All the best! 

[Edmunds]

Thanks for the good wishes.

 

I took one or another antidepressant most of the time for about 33 years, always with the eager encouragement of psychiatrists. So I have not had reason to expect a quick recovery. Your case is so much different. You may recover very soon.

[Marta]

@thinkpink sorry to bother you. I read you had a worsening of synthoms two years off. Did it improve? 

I hope so.

Best

[thinkpink]

Hello Marta, 

 

My withdrawal symptoms were much worse in the second year off the drug. For much of last year (year 2)I didn't function very well at all. I had a window last month which was pretty incredible-at least I think that's what it was. I had a few days of feeling really well and energised, I had no symptoms at all! A lot of the issues I have with fatigue and tingling sensations are ongoing but not as severe or as debilitating as it was for me last year. I do believe that everyone's journey is very different through all this and my understanding is that symptoms can come and go, so as strange as it all is I'm trying to work with it. Even though I'm still not feeling back to my usual self I'm not as unwell as I was last year so I think that's an improvement! Progress can feel slow at times but I've had periods of being much more functional compared to last year.