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finding meaning through accepting reality or radical acceptance

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btdt

I read it...

http://www.dbtselfhe...tance_text.html

I did and when I tried to think of a change I had to accept it was my best friend dying I was in withdrawal at the time.. and it got easier did I accept he had to go then nope I didn't I still don't...'it was drug induced... could have been prevented I may well be partly to blame for being too slow in calling for help 

 

and they lie as radical does not mean total and complete in any other application other than surgery.. only in the medical field.

 

 perhaps I am defective... I cannot accept the unacceptable.. I am doomed to suffer. I went to therapy after I watched my friend die I went to this lady who treats medical personal ... they see so much she was the best I was told.  I asked her after I told her my long sad story.. and spoke of my loss of crying on the outdoor swing for three wks after his death.. not crying wailing I said how does anyone go on after this complete obliteration of a life... of an identity of a belief system ... yep I was a mess.  With all her experience her few words to me were this... she said I do not know how people do it but they do.... that is all she knew.   I respected her for that as I knew it was her truth and this is mine tho it may not be completely welcome just here just now I feel I must... sorry if I am offending somebody.. just hit ignore me. This may be my greatest struggle yet. It maybe I resent a few lines on paper that have answers to things that are so big to me they make or break me. Turn me from what I could be to what I must remain... I guess there is a choice in there some place and maybe I have made it I am not sure.... as it never felt like a choice not ever.  

I then found this

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/pieces-mind/201312/three-blocks-radical-acceptance

 

You know it all makes sense it does.  I am generally a sensible person or I once was and still I resist.  Maybe I am blocking my primal feelings... I just resist against it all ... there has to be a reason doesn't there have to be something to do so this stops?  

I will now go off and work on this myself however it presents but don't have a lot of hope in healing from the head down it is a heart thing not a head thing. For me at least... again this is all just my perspective on it. 

 

It makes good and complete sense I wish you well with it.  


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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btdt

I am not sure which way i will go yet which mix of the pair I may end up with... or if there will be a clear winner. 

 

I got upset on a thread about acceptance I can't quite tell if this is a neuro reaction a reaction to steroid puffers of the source of a very major part of my pain... that lingers and eats at me... some days devours me other days.  Either way now that it is at least partially exposed I have to do the courageous thing and work on it bit by bit it may take a long time I may never have a successful conclusion it may never end... I don't know yet as it has not occurred yet.  I am packing up my common sense my will my courage and off on a journey of sorts if you want to come for the ride welcome.  I am not sure how inter active it will be ... as it has not happened yet.  

 

I am going to ask that my previous posts on another thread be moved here as a starting place.  Not much yet 

peace all 

 

 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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btdt

I had an issue with radical acceptance as an idea I read this about it

So what's Radical Acceptance?  What do I mean by the word 'radical'?  Radical means complete and total. here

http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/radical_acceptance_part_1.html

 

I did not like it as an idea until I read it put this way

 Accepting means I agree. I will never agree. I think the problem is that the word "accept" often means approving of something or agreeing with someone, such as accepting a job offer means agreeing to take the job. Radical acceptance does not mean you are agreeing to a situation or action. It means you are acknowledging that the event happened and is real. Acceptance means not fighting reality. There are many ways to fight reality. here

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/pieces-mind/201312/three-blocks-radical-acceptance

 

the next line at that link is this...

. I need to be angry to protect myself.  Radical acceptance can seem very risky to emotionally sensitive people. Anger, withdrawal and resentment can seem like armor to protect yourself. You may be seeking safety from the person who hurt you. Perhaps you forgive too easily and  forget that someone behaves in certain ways, so you get hurt again. 

 

Since I am the one who hurt myself while drugged...  I not only hurt my self then but I hurt myself for my entire future.  I guess we could say I have to move on from that but the truth is I still do not completely trust myself I don't know that I ever could again.  Bottom line sure the drug companies have some things to answer for but in the mean time I am getting old and I have seen 20 years pass by and pretty much nothing  has changed in that industry I am not going to live long enough to see pharma apologies. 

So what do I do with myself in the mean time it is my life that is a mess. 

 

Ok I am not drugged now.. that is something hard won yet I feel stuck. I did not have a clue about how stuck I was or how until I read the acceptance link.  In some ways I am still in the past stuck... I have not been able to get out as hard as I try to deal with what is and get on with things health issues and maybe acceptance issues hold me back I am not sure so I am going to look into it a bit. 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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Risperdrawlin

It's cool to me that this has got you thinking btdt. I wouldn't give up on that site. You actually hit on some of the main clarifications about Radical Acceptance (that acceptance does not mean approval). This page gives a little example of this issue: http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/radical_acceptance_part_3.html. Not sure if you saw that there were more pages. I think they're all worth reading. 


Was taking: 2 mg Risperdal

50 mg Lamictal

100 mg Zoloft

 

Currently taking:

0 mg Risperdal- finished 6/20/2015

0 mg Lamictal- finished 10/6/2015

0 mg Zoloft- finished ~March 2016

 

I am med-free!!

 

My intro thread: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7656-risperdrawlin-trying-to-come-off-all-psychiatric-medication-eventually/

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btdt

I did notice but since I was and still am taking some steroids I thought it best to give it a rest for awhile I will get back to it tho it upset my apple cart already.  There are just some things too painful to touch for me now I am not sure how much is meds and how much is me so till I do best to let this rest.  

There have been times I have wrestled with a concept developed by man that has done me no good caused me harm in my thought and emotional process for no good reason and this may be one of them.  To me they are mine fields bad therapy badly run groups where the masses rule even if they are wrong I have had to walk thru a lot of crap like this already so I do not bend easily if at all.  Yet due to my own personal reaction as stated above I wish to defer to a sounder more stable state of being when I know I am not taking a drug which previous use has proved to be disastrous to my mental health.  I told a person recently I was considering banning myself from here till I was off the med a good solid time.

While a lot of smart people devise plans and systems to help others much of it can be crap... plain and simple and in my experience damages already hurting people just as much as the drugs and in some cases I have been witness too maybe more than the drugs ... as through these techniques people are lead to believe they are defective and start taking the drugs.  Really is a just a form of control nothing more nothing less.

I have wondered where these helping people come from as I have watched them damage many some in groups some in private therapy discussed in groups.

"  Be not thou envious against evil men, neither desire to be with them. For their heart studieth destruction, and their lips talk of mischief." :) 

 

I am not so fast to buy in...not anymore. 

Thank you for taking a look I am not sure yet 

I wish you peace.


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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Junior

I don't know much about radical acceptance but I do know that you have experienced a deep sense of grief when your friend died.  Loss and grief is a greatly under-resourced and unknown area and most therapists know little about it because it is not part of their training.  I cringe when I hear of people being put on medication when they are clearly grieving.  It can be a profound experience but it is normal and natural.

 

Worden's theory is one of the most popular around (I do loss and grief counselling).  Thought you might find this link helpful   http://www.whatsyourgrief.com/wordens-four-tasks-of-mourning/

 

I also think withdrawal brings on a type of grief.  The sort of grief people experience with chronic illness.


Personal history of GAD and 4 melancholic depressive episodes - two treated with Amityptline

Family history of Bipolar Disorder - goes back at least 3 generations

Adult son with autism, ADHD, intellectual disability and Bipolar II

Put on Aropax / Paxil in July 1997 for anther episode.  Decision to stay on it - worst decision of my life.

Began to poop out in late 2008. Switched to Lexapro March 2009.  Made me suicidal.  Tried Cymbalta for 19 days. Horrible w/d.

Found PP and RI'd Aropax at about the same time - August 2009.  Began slow taper in 2010. Crashed in 13-11mg range in mid 2013.  Switched to Citalopram 21 Oct 2013 in an attempt to stabilise.

 

There are things that are known, and things that are unknown; in between are doors - Anonymous

 

https://itunes.apple.com/au/book/longing-for-life/id958423649  My book about my unsuccessful journey through IVF

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Risperdrawlin

Thanks for your kind wishes btdt. I have found Radical Acceptance useful. Your wariness makes sense to me if in the past trying to use other concepts to improve your life has done you harm. About Radical Acceptance, it's one of the main concepts in Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT), a form of therapy that is basically meant for those with Borderline Personality Disorder or anyone for whom previous forms of talk therapy have not worked. 

 

I was wondering if you are currently in any form of talk therapy. You don't have to answer.


Was taking: 2 mg Risperdal

50 mg Lamictal

100 mg Zoloft

 

Currently taking:

0 mg Risperdal- finished 6/20/2015

0 mg Lamictal- finished 10/6/2015

0 mg Zoloft- finished ~March 2016

 

I am med-free!!

 

My intro thread: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7656-risperdrawlin-trying-to-come-off-all-psychiatric-medication-eventually/

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btdt

I don't know much about radical acceptance but I do know that you have experienced a deep sense of grief when your friend died.  Loss and grief is a greatly under-resourced and unknown area and most therapists know little about it because it is not part of their training.  I cringe when I hear of people being put on medication when they are clearly grieving.  It can be a profound experience but it is normal and natural.

 

Worden's theory is one of the most popular around (I do loss and grief counselling).  Thought you might find this link helpful   http://www.whatsyourgrief.com/wordens-four-tasks-of-mourning/

 

I also think withdrawal brings on a type of grief.  The sort of grief people experience with chronic illness.

Grief yes there was reason t grieve the losses in my own life including health status money home... it was after I had quit effexor cold turkey and before I found paxil progress and learned about antidepressants... there was an 8 month gap... 6 months after cold turkey I was still mostly in bed ... in the 2 months between out of bed and finding pp... my friend died... yes it was horrid.  I was frozen to the spot and watched the doctors try to put tubes down his throat to bring him air... it all started in emerg waiting to see a doctor ... the ambulance guy said it was a trauma fall as we did not know what caused the fall... the doc said a fall from your own height is not trauma.. missing the point.  He woke up was talking... to me had to use the bathroom but was not allowed up as he had not seen the doc yet to the guy nurse brought a urinal... I left the room he made a mess.  I told the nurse he needed new sheets ...he had a color on and so could not see where the urine was going could not lift his head... my friend not the nurse.  

The nurse a guy said he did not have time to be changing sheets and was putting in a catheter ...he called the doc to get an ok.. got it I guess...went to put it in... I was outside the curtain.  I could hear them talking... he asked how he fell ...he said he did not know why or how everything just went black... I heard my friend yell in pain then all the bells and whistles went off ...people came running .. they could not get the air tube down as his air way had collapse... the doc came then... they told me to sit down ... I did not see a chair.. nurses females came one said what the hell happened ... one looked at me and took the other by the arm dragging her out of earshot... somebody grabbed me and said I could not be there ... put me in a small pink room with no window.  

I went to look for him... after a time... and his bed was empty. 

I was told they took him for a ct scan.. I asked to call his family he had a wife and son.. the number was unlisted.. I was not leaving him to go to his place and get the number ... so I called his one brother who came to Canada with him from England years ago... I told him it was very serious to come and to call his wife and son but he never called the wife and son.. he came eventually....many hours later.  we waited while he has surgery all night.. 

Not sure that was worth reliving... there is no good outcome there is not resolution there is no fixing it ever... it just sits there unjust. 

I seen him once before his xwife shut down my visitation... he had not been with her in many years but she held legal rights still.. he died exactly one wk later.. I think they pulled the plug his family from England came to say good bye. before they pulled it...

I knew he was gone before they told me he came to me as a shimmering light... about 3 feet off the ground in the hall where I live.  I scared me and I turned away... the second I turned he left... I know it was him.  Not looking for comment in any way as I don't need it.  Nothing anyone says ever will change what that meant to me. I know it.  

 

I had counselling .. for awhile I think I said that.  It was June by the time he passed ... my childs father died in Sept. that year.  So many people have died since I started withdrawal death is a common theme in my life since I started this death serious illness and auto immune diseases seem to be running rampant in the people I love... just how it has gone down.  

I could say it has been a constant piling on of **** as it sure feels like it has been... there is not one person I love who has not been hit with calamity in the form of a health mental health issue since I started this. 

 

If I was a paranoid sort of person I would say pharma had my email addresses and was knocking people off as pay back for me being so vocal. 

 

I am not big on therapy and no I am not doing any therapy.  

 

It is not so much that I have been so hurt by it... 

there has been times it helped me...

but I have watched others be hurt by it... 

 

I tend to think of those in power having a sort of "idea" they are helping and sometimes they have to hurt to help...but what I see often is a type of psychological torture...till one will bends to the other...

I am not interested. 

I do wish you all peace


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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btdt

I looked at the link a bit better than the bits I usually see but not much... I should say this happened in 2008 I have had years to heal I don't think there is any healing from it.....it just is...how it has been. 

there are not a lot of people who know him and I both ...none in the city I live in.. I think sometimes his son may show up to ask about his last day... he never has though he knows where I am has my number ect... not one word... it was a private funeral.. I was not invited.. 

 

Other people who knew us both live in another city I have had no contact none... even the people who supported me thru this have all moved on and away.  

The one sister I have who knew him is now dead too will be a year in March.  

I don't know what people expect I don't expect to heal from that ... I don't expect to be over it.  I don't know what that means. 

He died in 2008 so did my husband the only one I ever had 3 months later... 

then my niece at age 30 of breast cancer 

my brother in law was murdered while walking his dog 

a nephew died when his car exploded and caught fire after an accident. 

my sister well you all know how that went down 

 

death is part of life ...it happens every day... hopefully not to somebody you love but it may be.  We just don't know.

not the good part. 

I wish you peace... 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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btdt

"  Before that it was “withdrawing emotional energy from the deceased and reinvesting it in a new relationship”, which Worden admits sounded mechanical and simplistic. Though Worden has worked through task four in several iterations, and it still isn’t worded in a way that resonates perfectly for me, what is clear is that Worden is always refining and re-evaluating his own theory.  As our understanding of grief grows, Worden has demonstrated a committment to make sure his tasks reflect his new and evolving understanding"

I get helping people trying to understand this from the outside in and surely they at some point lost somebody... still it is a completely different thing to live it.. as helpful as people try to be it is like many things if they have not lived it they just don't know what it means. 

For those who do know what it means they know there is not magic there are no words that are going to make this go away... the getting on with life.. well I was in deep withdrawal brain zaps ... the whole nine yards I recall a drug friend of mine illegal not legal who said he could make it go away... :) he meant well... I told him there was no drug that could take this away... he did not know all I was going thru he did not know withdrawal he maybe knew grief but both together were a bit much. 

It was a tortured time I did my bit of counselling I tried to get the lady to understand there was more going on as I was in hard withdrawal ... that was lost on her... I know ... I know what it is like to feel alien and be deeply in mourning at the same time.  It is a very lonely sad and painful experience. Somehow I made it this far. Am I living?  Who knows I am existing and for a long time that was the big question was I going to make it as in be alive.  So I made it.. that part so far. I am alive to go on with other relationships I am not so good at that... don't know that I want to be. 

Maybe I am dense maybe I am missing the point I don't know what the point is. I don't like to feel it I don't it is awful... it is lost... it is annihilation on many different levels but I am here. I know some things for sure. 

What I know will never leave me and neither will the connections I have with the people I love be there dead or alive. As for the real truth of death I guess we will find out when we are dead. I seriously think without the help of those who have passed I would have folded by now and be gone.  They help me in their own way. 

I don;t want to have to explain it... sorry that is where I close the book. 

peace 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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btdt

I don't know much about radical acceptance but I do know that you have experienced a deep sense of grief when your friend died.  Loss and grief is a greatly under-resourced and unknown area and most therapists know little about it because it is not part of their training.  I cringe when I hear of people being put on medication when they are clearly grieving.  It can be a profound experience but it is normal and natural.

 

Worden's theory is one of the most popular around (I do loss and grief counselling).  Thought you might find this link helpful   http://www.whatsyourgrief.com/wordens-four-tasks-of-mourning/

 

I also think withdrawal brings on a type of grief.  The sort of grief people experience with chronic illness.

There certainly is grief I did not lose my home my job my life my brain and my connection to family without an insane amount of grief... I think all of us have some portion of it... some more then others. 

It is sad people are not taught how to help others who are grieving but I go back to the therapist I did see supposedly one of the best... and how she said she did not know how people went on but they did... then I drew on my past with the folks in my home town who lost so much during the war years...yes my parents were older my father fought in the war my mother held down the fort and tried to be strong when he came home messed up... 

Those folks of old a lot of them drank but most kept their stuff together they talked to each other woman consoled each other ...there was support in the community if not from all sections of the community and families were around the corner down the block not so most times now days... I fell back on what I knew on the old time sort of support and I reached out to the older people I know who knew sorrow even tho they did not know withdrawal they knew pain ... they supported and consoled me in ways people who know lose do .. they listen... they feed you... they wait till your done crying and make you some tea. 

I don't think it is rocket science but what do I know.  Humans have been surviving atrocities forever... they seek common ground like this place and they work it out... mind you it is better to have a human body in the space you live but if not this is second best. 

I wish you peace 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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Junior

You have really been through the mill. I am so sorry you have had to endure all of that and I feel honoured that you've chosen to share it with me.

 

You are right about never really getting over that sort of grief.  We don't. We learn to live with it.  My own experience was profound. I did eventually reach a point of acceptance but the echoes are with me every day. (I wound up on Paxil because of that time.) But I wasn't in the depths of w/d at the same time.  I can only imagine how hard that must have been for you. You've been through a traumatic experience, sought therapy, and got no validation or understanding for either that experience or the drug hell you were in.

 

The link I gave you is only one theory of the grief process. There is another one I really like - the dual process model of grief.  Essentially it holds that we swing between loss-orientation - mourning the loss, and restoration-orientation, where we are trying to make the adjustments we need to make in order to move forward.  This is a good article http://www.psychology.org.au/publications/inpsych/2011/december/hall/

 

Hope that helps - even a little.


Personal history of GAD and 4 melancholic depressive episodes - two treated with Amityptline

Family history of Bipolar Disorder - goes back at least 3 generations

Adult son with autism, ADHD, intellectual disability and Bipolar II

Put on Aropax / Paxil in July 1997 for anther episode.  Decision to stay on it - worst decision of my life.

Began to poop out in late 2008. Switched to Lexapro March 2009.  Made me suicidal.  Tried Cymbalta for 19 days. Horrible w/d.

Found PP and RI'd Aropax at about the same time - August 2009.  Began slow taper in 2010. Crashed in 13-11mg range in mid 2013.  Switched to Citalopram 21 Oct 2013 in an attempt to stabilise.

 

There are things that are known, and things that are unknown; in between are doors - Anonymous

 

https://itunes.apple.com/au/book/longing-for-life/id958423649  My book about my unsuccessful journey through IVF

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Btdt,

 

I have been mesmerized by your story. You have "been there done that" in spades. With all you have gone through, you have buckled but not broken and I think you are doing just fine going along as you have been. You are living what that one therapist told you:

 

 

With all her experience her few words to me were this... she said I do not know how people do it but they do.... that is all she knew.

 

Being physically unwell as you have been is complicating things, surely.

 

I have no easy answers nor any therapy to suggest, except: just keep living.

 

 

I don't think it is rocket science but what do I know.  Humans have been surviving atrocities forever... they seek common ground like this place and they work it out... mind you it is better to have a human body in the space you live but if not this is second best.

 

Yep, here is where some of "your people" are.

 

(PS. Did you ever change your email address? jk :)  )


What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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Risperdrawlin

Sorry to push it on you btdt, but I think you should seek therapy. Not because there is anything wrong with you, but because it seems like it would be helpful. I think a decent therapist would follow your stipulations (for instance, if you just wanted to talk and have them listen at first), and you could leave at any time if you felt it was not helping/was harming/ was uncomfortable. I think you should seek therapy because it seems you have a lot on your mind and I think it would be helpful if you could speak about what you're thinking face-to-face with a real person in real time. If you don't want feedback, advice (you probably won't get much advice from a therapist but you might), etc, maybe you might find a support group enjoyable. 


Was taking: 2 mg Risperdal

50 mg Lamictal

100 mg Zoloft

 

Currently taking:

0 mg Risperdal- finished 6/20/2015

0 mg Lamictal- finished 10/6/2015

0 mg Zoloft- finished ~March 2016

 

I am med-free!!

 

My intro thread: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7656-risperdrawlin-trying-to-come-off-all-psychiatric-medication-eventually/

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btdt

You have really been through the mill. I am so sorry you have had to endure all of that and I feel honoured that you've chosen to share it with me.

 

You are right about never really getting over that sort of grief.  We don't. We learn to live with it.  My own experience was profound. I did eventually reach a point of acceptance but the echoes are with me every day. (I wound up on Paxil because of that time.) But I wasn't in the depths of w/d at the same time.  I can only imagine how hard that must have been for you. You've been through a traumatic experience, sought therapy, and got no validation or understanding for either that experience or the drug hell you were in.

 

The link I gave you is only one theory of the grief process. There is another one I really like - the dual process model of grief.  Essentially it holds that we swing between loss-orientation - mourning the loss, and restoration-orientation, where we are trying to make the adjustments we need to make in order to move forward.  This is a good article http://www.psychology.org.au/publications/inpsych/2011/december/hall/

 

Hope that helps - even a little.

I won't dishonor your good thoughts towards me by lying to you I am not up to reading the link today but the title...sounds like what I am doing have done there are times it folds in on me... and I have to take time out to feel through it... thinking through it has never worked and is impossible... there is never enough time or grief counselling to get through my list...as they just keep coming ... 

some times if feels like this...

 

I was under water drowning for a good long time why I did not die is a mystery pure and simple... sometimes I get my head above water and take a gulp of air and see the sky and the trees... briefly then down under i go as there is always something weighing me down... I am kind of use to it under here... I am not saying it is the greatest place to live it surly isn't I remember what alive and life are... this is not it. 

 

This is my lot... do you know what I mean... this is what I got.... I do the best I can with it. mostly sometimes I fold... this is a new reality it is different for sure.. it is still life ...life of an amphibian of sorts.   


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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btdt

Sorry to push it on you btdt, but I think you should seek therapy. Not because there is anything wrong with you, but because it seems like it would be helpful. I think a decent therapist would follow your stipulations (for instance, if you just wanted to talk and have them listen at first), and you could leave at any time if you felt it was not helping/was harming/ was uncomfortable. I think you should seek therapy because it seems you have a lot on your mind and I think it would be helpful if you could speak about what you're thinking face-to-face with a real person in real time. If you don't want feedback, advice (you probably won't get much advice from a therapist but you might), etc, maybe you might find a support group enjoyable. 

I have had therapy lot of it just not recently.  I know what they do I know how it goes... I don't feel any need for it.  Your entitled to your opinion of course. I did not feel uncomfortable with therapy it was fine I don't feel any need to go talk to anyone.  I tried a lot of groups too in the past and I am not that keen on them to tell you the truth a  lot of bother to get up and go out for what... not into that either. I may seem like a know it all to you but I have been doing this a  long long long time.  I have turned over every rock taken every pill jumped through ever hoop I am done. 

 

No more for me. 


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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Wildflower0214

 

 

Sorry to push it on you btdt, but I think you should seek therapy. Not because there is anything wrong with you, but because it seems like it would be helpful. I think a decent therapist would follow your stipulations (for instance, if you just wanted to talk and have them listen at first), and you could leave at any time if you felt it was not helping/was harming/ was uncomfortable. I think you should seek therapy because it seems you have a lot on your mind and I think it would be helpful if you could speak about what you're thinking face-to-face with a real person in real time. If you don't want feedback, advice (you probably won't get much advice from a therapist but you might), etc, maybe you might find a support group enjoyable.

I have had therapy lot of it just not recently. I know what they do I know how it goes... I don't feel any need for it. Your entitled to your opinion of course. I did not feel uncomfortable with therapy it was fine I don't feel any need to go talk to anyone. I tried a lot of groups too in the past and I am not that keen on them to tell you the truth a lot of bother to get up and go out for what... not into that either. I may seem like a know it all to you but I have been doing this a long long long time. I have turned over every rock taken every pill jumped through ever hoop I am done.

 

No more for me.

I think psychology can be as harmful as psychiatry sometimes. I have been in and out of therapy my whole life, and some of the therapists did a lot of damage. I think you have to find the right one, and doing that takes energy and time and resources. And, sometimes, that can be too much for us. And, sometimes, for a while, we may need to just be quiet, seperate, and fly alone, not forever, but I have found much healing in this.

 

I am also leary of psychologists because they have their nose in the DSM. I believe the majority of mental illness is heavily influenced by trauma, and this seems to be highly ignored. I'm just not going to have my life experience pathologized any further. I haven't found it useful.

 

All of this is just my own experience.


2005-Zoloft bad reaction.....2006-Lexepro......2012-Upped Lexepro.......2013-Upped Lexepro......2/2014- Attempted Taper Lexepro...2/2014- Updosed Lexepro.......3/2014-Ativan.....5/2014- CT switch from Lexpro to Effexor.....

5/2014-7/2014-Tapered Ativan from 1mg to .25mg.....6/2014-Bad reaction to Effexor........7/2014- Rapid taper Effexor every other day......7/5/2014- Off Effexor.......7/2014-12/2014 - Ativan .25mg.......12/25/2014 -Taper Ativan by 4% due to paradoxical reaction .24mg...11/18/2015-Taper Ativan 1% CURRENTLY ON: .2376mg Ativan taken in 6 .0396mg doses.

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Junior

 

You have really been through the mill. I am so sorry you have had to endure all of that and I feel honoured that you've chosen to share it with me.

 

You are right about never really getting over that sort of grief.  We don't. We learn to live with it.  My own experience was profound. I did eventually reach a point of acceptance but the echoes are with me every day. (I wound up on Paxil because of that time.) But I wasn't in the depths of w/d at the same time.  I can only imagine how hard that must have been for you. You've been through a traumatic experience, sought therapy, and got no validation or understanding for either that experience or the drug hell you were in.

 

The link I gave you is only one theory of the grief process. There is another one I really like - the dual process model of grief.  Essentially it holds that we swing between loss-orientation - mourning the loss, and restoration-orientation, where we are trying to make the adjustments we need to make in order to move forward.  This is a good article http://www.psychology.org.au/publications/inpsych/2011/december/hall/

 

Hope that helps - even a little.

I won't dishonor your good thoughts towards me by lying to you I am not up to reading the link today but the title...sounds like what I am doing have done there are times it folds in on me... and I have to take time out to feel through it... thinking through it has never worked and is impossible... there is never enough time or grief counselling to get through my list...as they just keep coming ... 

some times if feels like this...

 

I was under water drowning for a good long time why I did not die is a mystery pure and simple... sometimes I get my head above water and take a gulp of air and see the sky and the trees... briefly then down under i go as there is always something weighing me down... I am kind of use to it under here... I am not saying it is the greatest place to live it surly isn't I remember what alive and life are... this is not it. 

 

This is my lot... do you know what I mean... this is what I got.... I do the best I can with it. mostly sometimes I fold... this is a new reality it is different for sure.. it is still life ...life of an amphibian of sorts.   

 

That is perfectly ok.  Sometimes dwelling on these things is worse than trying to get on and live one's life.  It's up to you to find whatever works best for you.  I respect that.


Personal history of GAD and 4 melancholic depressive episodes - two treated with Amityptline

Family history of Bipolar Disorder - goes back at least 3 generations

Adult son with autism, ADHD, intellectual disability and Bipolar II

Put on Aropax / Paxil in July 1997 for anther episode.  Decision to stay on it - worst decision of my life.

Began to poop out in late 2008. Switched to Lexapro March 2009.  Made me suicidal.  Tried Cymbalta for 19 days. Horrible w/d.

Found PP and RI'd Aropax at about the same time - August 2009.  Began slow taper in 2010. Crashed in 13-11mg range in mid 2013.  Switched to Citalopram 21 Oct 2013 in an attempt to stabilise.

 

There are things that are known, and things that are unknown; in between are doors - Anonymous

 

https://itunes.apple.com/au/book/longing-for-life/id958423649  My book about my unsuccessful journey through IVF

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

In my opinion, I think btdt deserves a break: a long uninterrupted stretch of no strife, illness, death, or cloudy weather.


What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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Wildflower0214

In my opinion, I think btdt deserves a break: a long uninterrupted stretch of no strife, illness, death, or cloudy weather.

Agreed!


2005-Zoloft bad reaction.....2006-Lexepro......2012-Upped Lexepro.......2013-Upped Lexepro......2/2014- Attempted Taper Lexepro...2/2014- Updosed Lexepro.......3/2014-Ativan.....5/2014- CT switch from Lexpro to Effexor.....

5/2014-7/2014-Tapered Ativan from 1mg to .25mg.....6/2014-Bad reaction to Effexor........7/2014- Rapid taper Effexor every other day......7/5/2014- Off Effexor.......7/2014-12/2014 - Ativan .25mg.......12/25/2014 -Taper Ativan by 4% due to paradoxical reaction .24mg...11/18/2015-Taper Ativan 1% CURRENTLY ON: .2376mg Ativan taken in 6 .0396mg doses.

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btdt

 

 

Sorry to push it on you btdt, but I think you should seek therapy. Not because there is anything wrong with you, but because it seems like it would be helpful. I think a decent therapist would follow your stipulations (for instance, if you just wanted to talk and have them listen at first), and you could leave at any time if you felt it was not helping/was harming/ was uncomfortable. I think you should seek therapy because it seems you have a lot on your mind and I think it would be helpful if you could speak about what you're thinking face-to-face with a real person in real time. If you don't want feedback, advice (you probably won't get much advice from a therapist but you might), etc, maybe you might find a support group enjoyable.

I have had therapy lot of it just not recently. I know what they do I know how it goes... I don't feel any need for it. Your entitled to your opinion of course. I did not feel uncomfortable with therapy it was fine I don't feel any need to go talk to anyone. I tried a lot of groups too in the past and I am not that keen on them to tell you the truth a lot of bother to get up and go out for what... not into that either. I may seem like a know it all to you but I have been doing this a long long long time. I have turned over every rock taken every pill jumped through ever hoop I am done.

 

No more for me.

I think psychology can be as harmful as psychiatry sometimes. I have been in and out of therapy my whole life, and some of the therapists did a lot of damage. I think you have to find the right one, and doing that takes energy and time and resources. And, sometimes, that can be too much for us. And, sometimes, for a while, we may need to just be quiet, seperate, and fly alone, not forever, but I have found much healing in this.

 

I am also leary of psychologists because they have their nose in the DSM. I believe the majority of mental illness is heavily influenced by trauma, and this seems to be highly ignored. I'm just not going to have my life experience pathologized any further. I haven't found it useful.

 

All of this is just my own experience.

 

"I am also leary of psychologists because they have their nose in the DSM. I believe the majority of mental illness is heavily influenced by trauma, and this seems to be highly ignored. I'm just not going to have my life experience pathologized any further. I haven't found it useful.

All of this is just my own experience. '

EXACTLY! or ditto 

 

Not all the groups and therapy I had was a waste of time... I had one therapist who was a wonder neither of us knew I was suffering from prozac severe adverse reaction... we did not know yet I can honestly say she at least did not hurt me. 

She sent me to a group that was also wonderful ... so well arranged and sorted all the people picked for the group were the same so we did not have to deal with a lot of pathology and drug crap and nobody was on drugs .. I did a lot of work there and it was wonderful... and it was grass roots.  

both of these were in 1990 BEFORE these drugs and crap entered the system in a huge way.  

 

All the groups and therapy since then has been less than...productive.  I believe in part because all the people were drugged and the therapist were substandard likely had different training something ... no doubt arranged and taught by pharma if you were to follow it up. 

 

The last one was the exception to as I told her going in that I am not going to and never will consider a medication and part of my time with her was discussing medication and the damage they had caused my life.  At that point the amount of therapy I had while drugged ... dealing with reactions and trying to find a "reason" for the psych "symptoms" in my psychological make up was never going to get any decent results since they were then unrecognized drug reactions... what a waste of my life and money. What stupidity and corruption that continues to this day. 

 

One quick story for you... my cousin put on a drug for toenail fungus made her not herself... it is written about in a book call "Our Daily Meds"  I was reading it when she was taking the drug... We were doing a pedicure at my house when she said I should not be using your stuff I am have fungus... say what... then she told me about the treatment she was using ... I had just read that section in my book.  So I showed her... at that point she did not have the psych symptoms but had the itching the rash and a few other things... 

 

fast forward a few months she is not herself she asks her doc about the drug ...her doc says she never gives out that drug in pill form as she knows the dangers ...checks her records and there it is... 

All sorts of damage and fallout followed I won't get into as it is confidential to her.  Bad choices loss of cash and health and we no longer talk. 

 

She seen a psychologist lol he told her she was suffering from the death of her father... he died in 98 ... 

omg... give me a fing break. 

She was fine before the drug. 

I am so over it. So fed up with it too. 

Same old story you can't dx anyone while they are taking a drug that is changing their brain... you can't treat a drug reaction with talk therapy... or more drugs... not ever... 

 

Doctors are not aware of what the drugs they give can do... even shrinks so what chance does a gp have when treating toenail fungus... really so many drugs cause bad psych reactions that are not psych drugs there is a thread on this I know cause I started it.  

 

Even shrinks don't know 

I posted this elsewhere but I will put it here too...cause it is that important. 

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2007/07/no_not_effexor_too_the_most_im.html

"July 21, 2007 6:19 PM | Posted by J: | Reply

Alone, is it safe to assume that most psychiatrists know this sort of thing and it's only other docs one must worry about?

I don't trust anyone who can smile and frown at the same time or who uses the term "mental fitness", but this looks like a decent and comprehensive run-down (incl. Wellbutrin):http://www.askdrjones.com/2005/02/23/best-antidepressants/ It lacks the snark, but admittedly I giggled a bit when he referred to the "'poop out' effect" (used as both a noun and a verb). What must ESLers think of us?

Lastly, is there any data on whether M&M's antidepressant effects level off at some point due to weight gain? Or is the therapeutic dose low enough that this is not a problem?

Alone's response to the comment, "is it safe to assume most psychiatrists know this.." No. I used to give this (more formally) as CME lectures, with associated articles, slides (not by Atari)-- and I have yet to meet one psychiatrist who had heard this before. But I have had internal med and neurology docs come and "correct" me on some technical points (I try to simplify certain aspects. It's a difference in education. Psychiatrists are almost exclusively taught by Pharma, and so they learn drug effects by name; neurologists often use the same drug for different purposes and so learn them by dosage effects. (consider dopamine, the pressor drug.)"

further case in point even a neurologist could not help me as every drug he tried to treat me with reacted on me... 

best safest thing don't take these drugs become aware of the drugs that can cause psych reactions and don't take them either. 

peace


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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btdt

 

 

You have really been through the mill. I am so sorry you have had to endure all of that and I feel honoured that you've chosen to share it with me.

 

You are right about never really getting over that sort of grief.  We don't. We learn to live with it.  My own experience was profound. I did eventually reach a point of acceptance but the echoes are with me every day. (I wound up on Paxil because of that time.) But I wasn't in the depths of w/d at the same time.  I can only imagine how hard that must have been for you. You've been through a traumatic experience, sought therapy, and got no validation or understanding for either that experience or the drug hell you were in.

 

The link I gave you is only one theory of the grief process. There is another one I really like - the dual process model of grief.  Essentially it holds that we swing between loss-orientation - mourning the loss, and restoration-orientation, where we are trying to make the adjustments we need to make in order to move forward.  This is a good article http://www.psychology.org.au/publications/inpsych/2011/december/hall/

 

Hope that helps - even a little.

I won't dishonor your good thoughts towards me by lying to you I am not up to reading the link today but the title...sounds like what I am doing have done there are times it folds in on me... and I have to take time out to feel through it... thinking through it has never worked and is impossible... there is never enough time or grief counselling to get through my list...as they just keep coming ... 

some times if feels like this...

 

I was under water drowning for a good long time why I did not die is a mystery pure and simple... sometimes I get my head above water and take a gulp of air and see the sky and the trees... briefly then down under i go as there is always something weighing me down... I am kind of use to it under here... I am not saying it is the greatest place to live it surly isn't I remember what alive and life are... this is not it. 

 

This is my lot... do you know what I mean... this is what I got.... I do the best I can with it. mostly sometimes I fold... this is a new reality it is different for sure.. it is still life ...life of an amphibian of sorts.   

 

That is perfectly ok.  Sometimes dwelling on these things is worse than trying to get on and live one's life.  It's up to you to find whatever works best for you.  I respect that.

 

Thank you I appreciate that. 

peace


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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btdt

 

In my opinion, I think btdt deserves a break: a long uninterrupted stretch of no strife, illness, death, or cloudy weather.

Agreed!

 

Thank you both JDM and CW I do need a break and appreciate your support... it is priceless. 

peace


WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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