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Depression recurs while tapering


bubbles
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Hi everyone This is a bit of a messy and complicated question, so please bear with me! I have been reading Joanna Moncrieff's excellent book "The Myth of the Chemical Cure", and I've got lots of little orange sticky tags all over the book!

 

At one point she talks about a meta study of w/d and relapse. This is the quote from the book: "As with the neuroleptic trials, the meta-analysis showed that the increased risk of relapse was highest immediately after discontinuation and that the difference in relapse rates between people who had their medication stopped versus those who continued fell progressively over time. This suggests that the act of discontinuation itself influenced relapse. However the average time before relapse occurred was much longer than after neuroleptic discontinuation, at around 14 months, and gradual withdrawal did not reduce the risk of relapse compared with abrupt cessation of treatment."

 

This seems to be the study she referenced: http://robertwhitaker.org/robertwhitaker.org/Depression_files/Discontinuing%20antidepressant%20treatment%20in%20major%20depression.PDF

 

I've also seen talk on the various support sites of a rebound depression - several months later - after the AD is stopped.

 

Before I ask my questions, I will say that I don't know how much weight to put on the point of gradual withdrawal, as it doesn't seem to say how long "gradual" is. Is it 2 weeks, 4 months, a year? In the absence of a figure, I have to assume it is much shorter rather than much longer. So, how inevitable is a rebound depression from discontinuing the drugs?

 

Also, it if occurs in, say the first year after discontinuing, is that a rebound depression? At what point would we consider it to just be the next episode? It was interesting that the quote talked about 14 months as an average. At 14 months I'd consider it just to be the next episode, as my depression was certainly episodic, at least in the early days. By the time I gave in to my therapist's insistance to go on the AD it was a long episode.

 

Is there any evidence (anecdotal is fine, it is at least as good as the evidence in the medical studies LOL) that a slow taper (say, a year) reduces the risk of this rebound depression? Logically it seems that it should. Is there much known about rebound depression as distinct from the acute phase of w/d? Thank you for getting this far. Best wishes Bubbles

2005 St John's Wort / 2006-2012 Lexapro 20mg, 2 failed attempts to stop, tapered over 4.5 months in early 2012

January 2013 started Sertraline, over time worked up to 100mg

July 2014 Sertraline dropped from 100mg to 75mg, held for six months, slower tapering until 2019 22 Dec 3.2mg

2020 Sertraline 19 Jan 3.1mg, 26 Jan 3.0mg; 1 Mar 2.9, 7 Mar 2.8, May (some drops here) 24 May 2.5, May 29 2.4, June 21 2.3, June 28 2.2mg,  July 4 2.1mg, July 24 (or maybe a bit before) 2mg, early Nov switched to home made suspension; 29 Nov 1.8mg; approx 25 Dec 1.6mg)

2021 Some time in about Jan/Feb realised my dosing was off and as probably on more like 1.8mg and possible mixing error in making suspension; doses after 10 Feb accurate; 10 Feb 1.6mg; 7 Mar 1.4

 

My thread here at SA: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1775-bubbles/page/17/

CurrentSertraline: 7 Mar 1.4mg / Armour Thyroid / endless allergy meds, erg

 

 

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Sorry, everyone, that's such a badly written post. Hard to get my head around the topic.

B

2005 St John's Wort / 2006-2012 Lexapro 20mg, 2 failed attempts to stop, tapered over 4.5 months in early 2012

January 2013 started Sertraline, over time worked up to 100mg

July 2014 Sertraline dropped from 100mg to 75mg, held for six months, slower tapering until 2019 22 Dec 3.2mg

2020 Sertraline 19 Jan 3.1mg, 26 Jan 3.0mg; 1 Mar 2.9, 7 Mar 2.8, May (some drops here) 24 May 2.5, May 29 2.4, June 21 2.3, June 28 2.2mg,  July 4 2.1mg, July 24 (or maybe a bit before) 2mg, early Nov switched to home made suspension; 29 Nov 1.8mg; approx 25 Dec 1.6mg)

2021 Some time in about Jan/Feb realised my dosing was off and as probably on more like 1.8mg and possible mixing error in making suspension; doses after 10 Feb accurate; 10 Feb 1.6mg; 7 Mar 1.4

 

My thread here at SA: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1775-bubbles/page/17/

CurrentSertraline: 7 Mar 1.4mg / Armour Thyroid / endless allergy meds, erg

 

 

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OK, yet more information. The study seemed to compare CT, to less than 2 weeks, and to more than 2 weeks. (Again, more than 2 weeks? That implies that their gradual w/d was what we'd consider to be really rapid...)

B

2005 St John's Wort / 2006-2012 Lexapro 20mg, 2 failed attempts to stop, tapered over 4.5 months in early 2012

January 2013 started Sertraline, over time worked up to 100mg

July 2014 Sertraline dropped from 100mg to 75mg, held for six months, slower tapering until 2019 22 Dec 3.2mg

2020 Sertraline 19 Jan 3.1mg, 26 Jan 3.0mg; 1 Mar 2.9, 7 Mar 2.8, May (some drops here) 24 May 2.5, May 29 2.4, June 21 2.3, June 28 2.2mg,  July 4 2.1mg, July 24 (or maybe a bit before) 2mg, early Nov switched to home made suspension; 29 Nov 1.8mg; approx 25 Dec 1.6mg)

2021 Some time in about Jan/Feb realised my dosing was off and as probably on more like 1.8mg and possible mixing error in making suspension; doses after 10 Feb accurate; 10 Feb 1.6mg; 7 Mar 1.4

 

My thread here at SA: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1775-bubbles/page/17/

CurrentSertraline: 7 Mar 1.4mg / Armour Thyroid / endless allergy meds, erg

 

 

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I've heard Alto say before that most studies about "gradual tapering" really are what we would consider super fast tapers. Perhaps there is not much of a difference between CT and a quick taper. I know from my own experience that when I tapered in 2008, too quickly, I got similar delayed withdrawal symptoms to when I CTed in 2010. (I'm not sure how bad I would have gotten, or how long it would have lasted, because I quickly went back on ADs for another two years before attempting to go off again.) There are, however, some studies that suggest gradual tapers will help prevent withdrawal symptoms. Not sure about "rebound depression".

 

Whatever the evidence out there, it makes too much sense that a gradual discontinuation of medication is way easier for your body to deal with. This is the case for other types of medicine that you take long term, such as steroids for autoimmune disorders and such. And so many people on this site seem to have an easier time dealing with everything when they taper slowly and allow their bodies enough time to make adjustments.

 

As for depression coming back... if you had chronic depressive episodes before meds, as I did, it stands to reason you will have them again at some point after discontinuing. What I try to tell myself is that I'm just not going to deal with them in the future by taking ADs, as look where that got me!! I hope to be able to find better ways of dealing with depression, which perhaps will require more effort on my part, but which in the end will be healthier and more effective.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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The study referenced above is

 

Harv Rev Psychiatry. 1998 Mar-Apr;5(6):293-306.

Discontinuing antidepressant treatment in major depression.

Viguera AC, Baldessarini RJ, Friedberg J.

Source

 

Consolidated Department of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Mass., USA.

 

Abstract at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9559348

 

Maintenance treatments in bipolar disorders and schizophrenia are securely established, and their discontinuation is associated with high but modifiable risk of early relapse. The benefits of long-term antidepressant treatment in major depression and the risks of discontinuing medication at various times after clinical recovery from acute depression are not as well defined. Computerized searching found 27 studies with data on depression risk over time including a total of 3037 depressive patients treated for 5.78 (0-48) months and then followed for 16.6 (5-66) months with antidepressants continued or discontinued. Compared with patients whose antidepressants were discontinued, those with continued treatment showed much lower relapse rates (1.85 vs. 6.24%/month), longer time to 50% relapse (48.0 vs. 14.2 months), and lower 12-month relapse risk (19.5 vs. 44.8%) (all p < 0.001). However, longer prior treatment did not yield lower postdiscontinuation relapse risk, and differences in relapses off versus on antidepressants fell markedly with longer follow-up. Contrary to prediction, gradual discontinuation (dose-tapering or use of long-acting agents) did not yield lower relapse rates. Relapse risk was not associated with diagnostic criteria. More previous illness (particularly three or more prior episodes or a chronic course) was strongly associated with higher relapse risk after discontinuation of antidepressants but had no effect on response to continued treatment; patients with infrequent prior illness showed only minor relapse differences between drug and placebo treatment.

 

 

From the full text:

 

....High relapse risk has been found to follow discontinuation of lithium in bipolar disorder and neuroleptics in schizophrenia. This high risk may reflect, at least in part, a stressful effect of drug discontinuation itself and appears to be reduced, not merely delayed, by slow removal of lithium in bipolar disorders and antipsychotics in schizophrenia. However,it is not clear whether such effects of drug discontinuation contribute to reported drug versus placebo contrasts in studies of long-term antidepressant treatment, or whether slow discontinuation of antidepressants can reduce risk of early relapse/recurrence after stopping long-term treatment....

 

Given the several questions just raised, we undertook a systematic overview of experimental therapeutic studies in major depression to provide semiquantitative predictions of morbid risk after stopping or continuing treatment....We also assessed the ability of the available data to permit testing the following specific predictions arising from our recent analyses of research on the treatment of bipolar and psychotic disorders: (1) Shorter duration of preceding antidepressant treatment would yield a higher relapse risk after discontinuation of treatment, particularly within the first several months after clinical recovery from an index acute episode of depression. (2) Slow removal of an antidepressant, or stopping a long-acting agent (such as fluoxetine or a standard monoamine oxidase inhibitor [MAOI), would be followed by less morbid risk in the ensuing months than would abrupt or rapid discontinuation of long-term treatment with a short-acting antidepressant....

 

 

This study is from 1998, when antidepressant withdrawal syndrome was just becoming recognized. It is a review of 27 studies on antidepressants published between January 1970 and January 1997.

 

As is almost universal in studies of antidepressant effectiveness, none of the 27 studies reviewed distinguished between antidepressant withdrawal symptoms and "relapse" or "rebound depression." "Gradual withdrawal" usually means a couple of weeks, as opposed to immediate cessation. (Read the full paper to see what the range of tapering was in the 27 studies. When you do, please post your findings in this topic.)

 

As usual, Viguera et al 1998 overstates the danger of "relapse" and completely ignores the confounding issue of withdrawal syndrome. It is the usual confirmation of antidepressant effectiveness -- people "relapse" when antidepressants are withdrawn. It is not helpful in learning anything about what happens after withdrawal from antidepressants.

 

You'd have to correspond with Dr. Moncrieff to find out what she thinks about "rebound depression" in that none of these studies tabulated even acute withdrawal symptoms and nobody has ever thought to look for prolonged withdrawal symptoms.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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The book just refers to relapse at an average of 14 months. She didn't use the word rebound, that was mine from other sources.

 

It is so frustrating to me, that there is no good information/study on withdrawing from ADs. It stuns me that they are so commonplace, and yet this very important subject is of no interest to anyone except those of us trying to get off them. :(

 

B

2005 St John's Wort / 2006-2012 Lexapro 20mg, 2 failed attempts to stop, tapered over 4.5 months in early 2012

January 2013 started Sertraline, over time worked up to 100mg

July 2014 Sertraline dropped from 100mg to 75mg, held for six months, slower tapering until 2019 22 Dec 3.2mg

2020 Sertraline 19 Jan 3.1mg, 26 Jan 3.0mg; 1 Mar 2.9, 7 Mar 2.8, May (some drops here) 24 May 2.5, May 29 2.4, June 21 2.3, June 28 2.2mg,  July 4 2.1mg, July 24 (or maybe a bit before) 2mg, early Nov switched to home made suspension; 29 Nov 1.8mg; approx 25 Dec 1.6mg)

2021 Some time in about Jan/Feb realised my dosing was off and as probably on more like 1.8mg and possible mixing error in making suspension; doses after 10 Feb accurate; 10 Feb 1.6mg; 7 Mar 1.4

 

My thread here at SA: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1775-bubbles/page/17/

CurrentSertraline: 7 Mar 1.4mg / Armour Thyroid / endless allergy meds, erg

 

 

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Agreed. We've been stranded by bad medicine.

 

Still, you might write Dr. Moncrieff and ask her your questions. She's one of the few doctors who've given any thought to our issues.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I'm skeptical about the entire concept of "relapse", especially after going through withdrawal myself. (Not all the way through - I'm not there yet.) Never forget the self-fulfilling prophecy: a strong expectation can bring about the very thing that is feared. My shrink at the hospital said something as I was leaving about "see you again next time around" that made one of the mental health technicians gasp in horror. I had already decided days before that this guy was a twit and let it roll off, but that comment might have been strongly influential to a more respectful patient.

 

There are also situations that happen that are completely out of our control, like job loss or the death of someone close that can throw us into a tailspin. This is not depression, despite what doctors want us to believe, it is a normal response to reality.

 

There are also unhappy situations that we can change - such as an unhappy marriage - but choose not to do so, which can also cause depression. Taking a position of being helpless or overwhelmed can certainly drag a person down. Attitude counts for a lot.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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Wow Jemima that Doctor was more than a Twit.

 

Rebounding and Relapsing. I have experience rebounding depression from medications like Propanolol and Benzos. I believe it to be the after-effect of those particular. In the AARP link on drugs that cause depression they were listed.

 

Relapsing:

"As for depression coming back... if you had chronic depressive episodes before meds, as I did, it stands to reason you will have them again at some point after discontinuing." Nadia

 

Nadia this is where I get confused. Is it WD or is it the depression coming back and rearing it's ugly head? I find for myself that WD is so bad, I could never tell, or wondered if it can, or has caused depression which may not have been so bad if it weren't for the debilitating effects of WD.

 

I have read posts at another site where a few administrators went thru a long taper and were okay after awhile. I know people who took AD's for depression/anxiety (short term use).They got off of them and were okay. Were they clinically depressed, no.

 

This stuff makes me scratch my head like a monkey....

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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Oh Jemima - that doctor should be reported or something :o

That's unconscionable - and doesn't say much for his confidence in psychiatry -

WOW -

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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For me, the W/D depression was bad enough that I went back on the AD (on doctor's advice) before completing the taper. He told me that tapering was only for the zaps, not for depression (that is, that it wasn't a w/d effect). I'd have liked to have tried something easier to get off to smooth the ride, like St John's Wort, but I was still on the AD so it wasn't safe.

 

I've had episodic depressions over about a decade before I took the AD in the first place. It does stand to reason that these episodes might continue. I rode most of them out and though it was a miserable ride, they did eventually end. The last one (that made me go on the AD in the first place) was by far the worst, and the longest, and featured akathisia (I previously called it agitation and anxiety, and it was those too, but on reading a bit more I think akathisia was there too - a feeling of wanting to get out of my skin).

 

With regard to "rebound" - that is an effect of going off the drug - I keep hearing of people who get a rebound, after a period of months being drug free (or, I guess, like those of us who didn't even get drug free). Hard to know if it is one or the other, but I am reading of people who'd never experienced depression previously and certainly got it in w/d, so that seems to suggest it could be a drug effect.

 

Just trying to get it all sorted in my mind so I can make an informed decision. It would be so helpful if someone had actually studied these things and could give us actual information. What I'd like them to study is the severity of symptoms with a taper (and I mean a real taper, not 2-4 weeks) and if a taper is protective against this rebound effect.

 

B

2005 St John's Wort / 2006-2012 Lexapro 20mg, 2 failed attempts to stop, tapered over 4.5 months in early 2012

January 2013 started Sertraline, over time worked up to 100mg

July 2014 Sertraline dropped from 100mg to 75mg, held for six months, slower tapering until 2019 22 Dec 3.2mg

2020 Sertraline 19 Jan 3.1mg, 26 Jan 3.0mg; 1 Mar 2.9, 7 Mar 2.8, May (some drops here) 24 May 2.5, May 29 2.4, June 21 2.3, June 28 2.2mg,  July 4 2.1mg, July 24 (or maybe a bit before) 2mg, early Nov switched to home made suspension; 29 Nov 1.8mg; approx 25 Dec 1.6mg)

2021 Some time in about Jan/Feb realised my dosing was off and as probably on more like 1.8mg and possible mixing error in making suspension; doses after 10 Feb accurate; 10 Feb 1.6mg; 7 Mar 1.4

 

My thread here at SA: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1775-bubbles/page/17/

CurrentSertraline: 7 Mar 1.4mg / Armour Thyroid / endless allergy meds, erg

 

 

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Wow Jemima that Doctor was more than a Twit.

Oh Jemima - that doctor should be reported or something :o

That's unconscionable - and doesn't say much for his confidence in psychiatry -

WOW -

 

I actually feel a bit sorry for him at this distance in time. He was in his early to middle fifties or so and was probably burned out and cynical from the turns his career took over the years.

 

I worked in mental health from the late sixties into the early eighties, and during that period people were not rushed in and out of hospitals as they are today. The place where I was hospitalized tried to get patients in and out within a week, if not less, whereas back in my day a short-term hospitalization meant three to six months, which gave both doctor and patient time to figure out what worked. It's just like the 15 minute medical appointment - how the &*#! can anybody do good medicine in that time? Antidepressants may become biologically active within hours, but most patients seldom feel the effects for several weeks. (I didn't noticeably respond to Pristiq for eight weeks.) How can anyone know if treatment is effective in a week??? I would not want to work in that environment and I suspect my psychiatrist didn't like it either.

 

The remark was thoughtless and unkind, but I think I understand his frustration with the current system.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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The recidivism now is unbelievable - I've heard from several sources that 10+ hospitalizations/year is not uncommon -

Definitely a very broken system -

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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The recidivism now is unbelievable - I've heard from several sources that 10+ hospitalizations/year is not uncommon -

Definitely a very broken system -

 

More than a broken system, maybe a reflection of a broken society? One where we don't just listen to others, or ourselves anymore. Very sad. A system where there is no time, where it's easier to prescribe mind altering junk than listen for a few minutes. I have a friend who is a psychiatrist, not practicing, because she can't tolerate the incessant drug pollution.

 

Schuyler

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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The recidivism now is unbelievable - I've heard from several sources that 10+ hospitalizations/year is not uncommon -

Definitely a very broken system -

 

I think some of my fellow inmates were in and out that often. The staff seemed to be well acquainted with many of them and I heard a lot of stories from my compatriots about other hospitals where they had been. The only two people who had been there longer than two weeks were a homeless guy who was deaf-mute, and a man with dementia whom they were having trouble placing in a nursing home.

 

The hospital was really a mish-mash, too. There were people who were detoxing from alcohol and drugs, many depressed people, a few who had come in asking for help with medication adjustments, and the two longer terms ones, above. We were occasionally asked to go to our rooms and stay there or stay in group therapy with the door closed until an inmate could be taken away to jail by the police.

 

The environment was incredibly sterile and boring. Every possible means of hurting oneself had been removed. We were not even allowed to have a sharpened pencil. There was no way to get any exercise, no library, no chaplain, no comfortable chairs in a quiet place where a person could read. I was there for one weekend and there was nothing to do but watch TV or sleep. The rooms had only overhead lights so there was no way to read in bed without disturbing one's roommate, and I got a real slob for several days who left her dirty diapers on the floor and hogged the bathroom. Roommates came and went and I was told to move my stuff to another room at one point to accommodate who knows what. The homeless guy was so confused by the room changes he often wandered into someone else's room in the middle of the night.

 

If I ever feel a major depression coming on again, I'm going to make threats so I get to go to jail instead.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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More than a broken system, maybe a reflection of a broken society? One where we don't just listen to others, or ourselves anymore. Very sad. A system where there is no time, where it's easier to prescribe mind altering junk than listen for a few minutes. I have a friend who is a psychiatrist, not practicing, because she can't tolerate the incessant drug pollution.

 

Schuyler

 

There is a large portion of this broken society that's too busy chasing money to care about anything or anyone else, IMO. I consider myself blessed to have a handful of genuine friends and several neighbors who are caring about others and not at all materialistic.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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That is a good idea. I will think on a letter for a few days - got o/s visitors at present so we're a bit frantic with that.

 

I saw her speaking at a conference (on video) and thought "wish she was nearby, love it if she was my doctor!".

 

B

 

Hey Bubbles,

 

I'm surprised at how frequently I get responses from doctors via email. I've cold-emailed several doctors, some with some '''fame''' with short, polite questions, and always a deferential tone.

 

Sometimes the responses are not very useful though.

 

I'm not familiar with this doctor. If she's on a faculty, it should be pretty easy to locate her email. Also, I went to a big state school that spends a lot of money on research so there have been several doctors I've emailed, though not specifically about w/d so much as issues peripheral to it (anxiety, gastro issues, benzos, etc). I've almost always gotten replies from faculty at any of UTexas campuses, maybe it helps that I make a point to mention that I am an alum and, as an alum, I've heard he/she is a great person to direct my question to.

 

Maybe, in the future, I may just pretend to be an alumnus of whoever at whatever school. I bet my response rate would increase. :-)

 

Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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More than a broken system, maybe a reflection of a broken society? One where we don't just listen to others, or ourselves anymore. Very sad. A system where there is no time, where it's easier to prescribe mind altering junk than listen for a few minutes. I have a friend who is a psychiatrist, not practicing, because she can't tolerate the incessant drug pollution.

 

Schuyler

 

There is a large portion of this broken society that's too busy chasing money to care about anything or anyone else, IMO. I consider myself blessed to have a handful of genuine friends and several neighbors who are caring about others and not at all materialistic.

 

I've had an interesting few weeks with a heavy exposure to the system.

 

First of all, I am very lucky in some ways. I live with my mother free of charge and am on my fathers insurance plan. I don't work but make some money here and there, most of the bigger chunks coming on sales of websites I built years ago. Anyway, my experience lately has included a trip to my GP, a gastro, a gastro follow up, a urologist, neuro-psychiatrists, a homeopath, an integrative MD and a nutritionist who frequently works with the integrative MD but is independent of her.

 

Why is the system messed up to me? The GP, Gastro and Urologist all take my insurance so it's not very costly to see them. However, I see them for 15 minutes, max and at the end they offer a Rx -- sometimes not even relating to the reason for my visit -- or maybe send me off for a test. (The urologist visit ended with the offer of Viagra... maybe this is just standard??) Basically, I can't contextualize my problem in 5 minutes, they want the other 10. And they're running behind because they've got 30 patients to see in a day. Even though it's not very costly, I don't really get anything except a professional's consideration of my symptoms and bloodwork which results in a rule out of leukemia.

 

On the other hand, there are the others, lets call them Group B. I saw the homeopathic practioner for an hour and discussed my case. While nothing much came out of that, there was some possibility because we could at least discuss a complicated matter at length and she offered some suggestions and pros and cons. The integrative doctor talked with me for 75 minutes and was way more in tune with contemporary thinking about 'broken system'. The nutritionist also spent an hour talking to me. I've talked on the phone and in person with psychiatric experts for cumulatively 200+ minutes over this span.

 

So group B offers a lot more potential to actually provide healthcare that is in my health interest. (Sadly, many in this group haven't been too helpful but some in fact have been and some still may be.) But all of group B is swamped. Wait-lists, backlogs -- All of them. Group B doesn't take insurance (or are not covered under my insurance), are expensive and it's weeks to get in to see them because there are a lot of people who realize the 'system' is so screwed up and Rx-driven that they're going outside it. Provided they can AFFORD to. I've spent over $2000 of my limited funds on providers with no insurance reimbursement on the way in just the past two months. The 75 minutes (plus bloodwork) with the integrative doc ran me $500. And the thing is, she doesn't give a flip about me. If I called and cancelled my followup she'd probably be happy to have the slot to get someone else in, that's how swamped she is.

 

Anyway, the system works well if you get a gunshot wound. In most other scenarios, the best thing for a healthy young person, i suppose, is be lucky enough to never end up chronically medicated -- for depression, GERD, high cholesterol, whatever. Once one is in, a lot comes down to chance and luck and what can you do but turn to the internet and hope for the best. The system will move right along without you.

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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Your perseverance is amazing, Alex!!

 

I agree completely with all you've said. In addition, there is little to no communication between providers/specialists. I don't have to go thru a PCP, so that may be a factor in the lack of coordination. Each doc treats from their specialty and relies solely on me to communicate other doctors' diagnoses and treatments. I'm so overwhelmed right now and still have several scans ordered back in January.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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So group B offers a lot more potential to actually provide healthcare that is in my health interest. (Sadly, many in this group haven't been too helpful but some in fact have been and some still may be.) But all of group B is swamped. Wait-lists, backlogs -- All of them. Group B doesn't take insurance (or are not covered under my insurance), are expensive and it's weeks to get in to see them because there are a lot of people who realize the 'system' is so screwed up and Rx-driven that they're going outside it. Provided they can AFFORD to. I've spent over $2000 of my limited funds on providers with no insurance reimbursement on the way in just the past two months. The 75 minutes (plus bloodwork) with the integrative doc ran me $500. And the thing is, she doesn't give a flip about me. If I called and cancelled my followup she'd probably be happy to have the slot to get someone else in, that's how swamped she is.

 

Identifying effective alternative forms of treatment is very challenging. Even people who treat problems they themselves suffer from may be overly eager, and identify too many people as potential candidates. Then there are treatments that have absolutely no validity.. the beat goes on. In earlier decades, we could rely on the medical establishment to at least try to have our backs.. no more. It's a wild world, and I agree, emergency treatment for acute problems seems to be the only area in which we can be reasonably assured.

 

Very very sad.

S

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Your perseverance is amazing, Alex!!

 

I agree completely with all you've said. In addition, there is little to no communication between providers/specialists. I don't have to go thru a PCP, so that may be a factor in the lack of coordination. Each doc treats from their specialty and relies solely on me to communicate other doctors' diagnoses and treatments. I'm so overwhelmed right now and still have several scans ordered back in January.

 

Ya know, Barb, in my experience there is zero direct communication between different specialists except that I bring with me copies of labs/reports ordered by one to appt with some other. I know my old shrink, Dr. FG, used to call my GP on the telephone. But this was only because he needed GP to write the benzos (damn medical board and their penalties for drug abuse).

 

In all of this, I am certain that each doctor is too busy or doesn't feel inclined... None have spoken with any of the others. Oh well. I guess it's probably not very feasible anyway considering how many patients my GP or my urologists sees in a day and after work they probably want to leave their patients at the office.

 

Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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Identifying effective alternative forms of treatment is very challenging. Even people who treat problems they themselves suffer from may be overly eager, and identify too many people as potential candidates. Then there are treatments that have absolutely no validity.. the beat goes on. In earlier decades, we could rely on the medical establishment to at least try to have our backs.. no more. It's a wild world, and I agree, emergency treatment for acute problems seems to be the only area in which we can be reasonably assured.

 

I feel the same way about alternative "fill_in_the_blank". There are proponents for everything. Selling hope to the sick... there's probably not an easier sale. People will do anything if you tell them it will work.

 

As we here know well, so much of conventional treatment is simply overloaded doctors working to suppress a symptom with a pill and this can have possibly horrific ramifications down the road for the patient. If down the road ramifications occur the Dr will not have the time, resources or expertise to undue the damage.

 

Not to say all doctors are terrible, but it's a mess. And everybody gets sick, everybody needs health care. But there are only so many providers. Lots fall through the cracks.

 

Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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Just with regards to the rebound versus relapse issue, I initially went on ADs almost 20 years ago for a set of symptoms that would better be described as extreme anxiety and distress. Now about 7 months of ADs altogether, I am experiencing true depressive symptoms unlike any I've experienced before, and they change frequently. This would indicate to me that these symptoms are more related to WD than relapse.

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that this site supports the idea that many of these awful depressive symptoms ( eg., dp and dr, anhedonia, etc ) were likely WD related. I'm a bit confused now...

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I totally agree that depressive symptoms can be withdrawal related. Especially anhedonia, DP, and DR, like you mention.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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What are DP and DR? Not sure...

 

B

 

Depersonalization and derealization. Those abbreviations pull me up short every time, even knowing what they mean they give me pause. :huh:

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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I'm skeptical about the entire concept of "relapse", especially after going through withdrawal myself. (Not all the way through - I'm not there yet.) Never forget the self-fulfilling prophecy: a strong expectation can bring about the very thing that is feared. My shrink at the hospital said something as I was leaving about "see you again next time around" that made one of the mental health technicians gasp in horror. I had already decided days before that this guy was a twit and let it roll off, but that comment might have been strongly influential to a more respectful patient.

 

There are also situations that happen that are completely out of our control, like job loss or the death of someone close that can throw us into a tailspin. This is not depression, despite what doctors want us to believe, it is a normal response to reality.

 

There are also unhappy situations that we can change - such as an unhappy marriage - but choose not to do so, which can also cause depression. Taking a position of being helpless or overwhelmed can certainly drag a person down. Attitude counts for a lot.

 

I was thinking the same thing.

 

I never went back to the dark side of depression after I CT drugs because my depression was situational and age related.

 

Here is another point. Is the author using the DSM crieria? According to the DSM depressive symptoms must be present for 2+ weeks before it is called depression. Two weeks! That is not a long enough time to determine a diagnosis.

Withdrew cold turkey from six medications: Celexa, Zyprexa, Depakote, Ativan, Ambien and Phentermine in 2002. It has been 10 years since I told polypharmacy to take a hike and have joined this forum to let others know that success is possible and to hopefully save people from experiencing the suffering that I did under psychiatric "care".

 

MY STORY

 

"TENSION is when we try to be who we think we should be, RELAXATION is when we are who we really are."

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Here is another point. Is the author using the DSM crieria? According to the DSM depressive symptoms must be present for 2+ weeks before it is called depression. Two weeks! That is not a long enough time to determine a diagnosis.

 

In my experience, feeling down about a situation lasts longer than that as well. Sadness and frustration from a job loss or the death of someone close just don't go away in two weeks.

 

As usual, the APA is attempting to medicalize a normal feeling state. The more patients, the merrier for their bank balances.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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  • 2 years later...

I'm dealing with very severe depression today (I know - only one day!)

But this has been a theme since I went on antidepressants at least 11 yrs ago for situational anxiety - that I would stop every yr only to start again for depression. And the last 5 years I have been non functional.

I guess I am looking for hope really. That people have recovered from this kind of history of chronic recurring depression whilst on and off meds.

If not, I may have to resign myself that I'll never get off them.

Edited by KarenB
merged topics

2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare!

 

On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect.

 

Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan.

 

 

Nightmare that could have been avoided!

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Can you tell us all the things you have done before besides meds to try to resolve this problem? So we don't discourage you by just telling you things that don't work for you.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Thank you for your reply. I didn't really do anything as I was young and struggling but not to this extent.

 

Very confused so I apologise if I'm not making much sense.

 

What I worried about is if I've developed tardive dysphoria really and whether people can recover from this...

2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare!

 

On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect.

 

Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan.

 

 

Nightmare that could have been avoided!

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I had depression off and on when growing up too.  I think that I was super sensitive to hormones and was anemic due to heavy periods. 

 

You wrote that you were  put on a/d's for anxiety though, is that right?  Because I'm thinking that if you can give yourself enough time, that you can find your way out of depression both through a healing of your brain and in time, other techniques and non drug therapies.  I really do believe tho that your brain will find a way of healing in time.  You said that you felt "normal" for two days which seems to show that your brain is capable of bringing you to balance. 

 

I know a man on a FB site who has just about the same history as you, trying to get off of SSRI's only to go into a massive depression and having to back up to a large dose.  This time he has been micro-tapering and is down to a very low dose and is just now beginning to have WINDOWS without the depression.  I do believe that when you can begin a slow taper, your brain will find its way to normal functioning.  I really do.

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING

 

 

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Thank you Selma

 

It just seems impossible just now to believe - trying to think positive thoughts makes me feel worse strangely enough..

 

That's good to hear about that guy :)

 

Yes, my original problem was never severe depression. Although I think I did have a lot of probs with anxiety and self esteem growing up and maybe some depression but not this severe debilitating, crushing despair.

 

Thank you for your reply and relaying this story of hope xx

2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare!

 

On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect.

 

Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan.

 

 

Nightmare that could have been avoided!

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The slow taper - oh I wish if known as I'm sure many of the people on this site had.

2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare!

 

On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect.

 

Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan.

 

 

Nightmare that could have been avoided!

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http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/03_treatment.html

 

I have very mixed feeling about this site. Con, it is the traditional medical model that supports the theory that got me in so much trouble: if anything untoward happens while on an AD, the patient has bipolar disorder. Pro, if you can just overlook that, and the word bipolar, there is a lot of info here on mood stabilization . It helped me a lot last winter. Although a lot of it just has to be survived, especially the WD version, heavy sigh.

 

I would also add gut healing and microbe optimization. Also, this author published case studies on dietary management of bipolar,which would probably hold the same for depression.

 

Kellybroganmd.com also has some good stuff

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Thank you for the link will have a look. And I'm very interested in diet and healing.

2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare!

 

On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect.

 

Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan.

 

 

Nightmare that could have been avoided!

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