ikam: tapering escitalopram

[powerback]

On 8/1/2018 at 1:14 PM, ikam said:

lots of physical pain

up-dosed from 39%, back to 38%...

 

it seems as if any preconditions flared up- sciatica pain, leg pain, foot pain, elbows and headache...

 

additionally feeling low, but this relates to the divorce...

pain may relate to the divorce as well- a kind of transfer in feeling powerless and unable to express my anger that is turned against my body...

anger that cannot be expressed tends to be transferred into anger against oneself- hence pain, sadness, suicidal thought, etc. 

I empathise deeply ,im in the same boat with nearly everything here youve written .im in the perfect storm and wondering were itl leave me .maybe I should stop trying to control any of it and give in to see were it brings me .

Take care .

[ikam]

((((((((Powerback))))))))

[ikam]

I want to try to go 2% at a time tapper...I will observe my symptoms, if it is too fast I will get back to 1% at a time...

[ikam]

I need to take a steroid nasal spray. I am a bit concerned, but it helped me with my present ill health... 

 

Generally, I am feeling very low, no motivation. 

On 12th Sept I will have a first heraing at the court. I have not seen this man for around 7 years... I am pretty anxious... 

Kind of retreated deep inside myself, do barely minimum... 

But, 

Have to write an essay by the end of August, and write up some info, + usual things for work... 

I want

To run away, hide somewhere so I cannot be found... 

[ikam]

On 8/5/2018 at 4:13 PM, ikam said:

I want to try to go 2% at a time tapper...I will observe my symptoms, if it is too fast I will get back to 1% at a time...

Did not go 2%, I am continuing with 1% slow tapper, it seems that this is my best option... 

[ikam]

Exhausted...need to stop a steroid nasal spray. It makes me feeling worse...

[ikam]

Told my GP yesterday that I responded to a steroid, Avamys, with a headache, feeling lightheaded and increase in coughing. She was so convinced that this is "such a small dose", etc. She prescribed me inhaler for my cough, Salbutamol. I read a leaflet and put it into a drawer, I will not use it. I rather say with a cough... 

IT always makes me so amused that doctors truly believe in a power of meds... 

 

I have a headache today, but I stopped steroid two days ago, used it for four days, perhaps I still have some response to it... 

 

I am down %40 of my 2.5mg dose, meaning I am taking 1.5mg...

[Junglechicken]

7 hours ago, ikam said:

Told my GP yesterday that I responded to a steroid, Avamys, with a headache, feeling lightheaded and increase in coughing. She was so convinced that this is "such a small dose", etc. She prescribed me inhaler for my cough, Salbutamol. I read a leaflet and put it into a drawer, I will not use it. I rather say with a cough... 

IT always makes me so amused that doctors truly believe in a power of meds... 

 

I have a headache today, but I stopped steroid two days ago, used it for four days, perhaps I still have some response to it... 

 

I am down %40 of my 2.5mg dose, meaning I am taking 1.5mg...

 

Ikam,

 

Those symptoms you mentioned are known side effects of steroid inhalers.

 

The same thing happened to me a few nights ago when I took my inhaler because felt like I was wheezing.

 

JC

[ikam]

Hmmm, I stopped nasal spray and did not use inhaler at all. I rather have this cough for longer...It is actually getting better since I stopped the spray...

I bought a herbal syrup...

 

I am still quite lethargic...

[ikam]

41%

[ikam]

42%

[ikam]

43%

[ikam]

One of the strategies that helps me the most is to follow my protocol and concentrate on other aspects of my life... 

Every time when my attention gets towards my symptoms, I feel worse...

Many symptoms can be interpreted in many ways, I felt really dizzy yesterday, but I was in a court, I was supposed to meet my husband... He did not turn up... 

I felt dizzy afterwards, but I also cut my dose down by another 1%, so I could think my dizziness was down to tapering. 

Or, perhsps, both? 

 

 We will have another hearing in around 3 months... 

In the meantime I still font know if he accepted the amended petition for the divorce. Knowing him he will do everything to mess it up, and for him to regain his control...

 

[ikam]

44% doing well with this protocol, but still tempted to get 2% at a time 

I have been doing 1% at a time for around two months, without additional breaks, just steady tapper, seems OK... 

 

The problems I have relate to the divorce, he did not turn up at the court, told my solicitor that he will not allow a surveyor with no warrant...He lives in my house, stopped paying rent since Jan. The mortgage is solely on my name... So bank wants money from me, my credit score is badly affected, etc. Etc. 

I pay all the solicitor fees... 

Sometimes extremely worried and exhausted... 

 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Ikam-- I'm glad to hear that the taper is going well.  I'm a bit concerned by your not taking breaks though.  Even at a low percentage the background symptoms can be building up and when the break the do so with out warning and hit hard.  I would suggest taking a taper vacation for a couple of months and letting things settle out so you don't get blindsided by a crash.  After the hold you could restart using the 2% and see what happens.

 

Brassmonkey

[jozeff]

Listen to brass monkey, his tapering scheme probably saved my life because I was going right into years of misery with my fast taper.

 

I'm glad it is working for you ikam. 

 

I tapered 0.1 mg citalopram every day and after 85 days I crashed hard. That was 12 weeks ago and I still feel worthless. I didn't build in steady days or weeks. My brain couldn't keep up with the taper I guess. The problem is that, as far as I understand, the damage of a too fast a taper cannot be undone just by updosing again. That's what I believed and what most doctors told me....don't feel ok, just add 5 or 10 mg and you'll be fine...yeah right

 

My stepmother is currently on her 9th! antidepressant. The stuff just stops working as good as it did, you reach the max dose and you'll have to switch to something new.

 

Anyway, I'm sorry for all the stress you have to go through. Stress makes healing harder sometimes.

 

Good luck with your taper and get well!! Let us know how you're doing on a regular basis!

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

[ikam]

My taper is minimal, it is 0.025mg at a time, but I understand it can be too much in the longer term, as 4 times equals: 0.1mg...

Still bit unsure, as I have had no symptoms with this schedule, I do not even get any symptoms after each decrease anymore. 

I am mindful of this, trying to monitor any signs of my system being overwhelmed...at present it is impossible to judge as I am dealing daily with solicitors letters, bank phone calls, husband's responses, etc. So I am tired...I try to look after myself by going to bed early enough, so if I wake up early (which often happens) I have enough sleep, I go to pilates as well...

I have noticed recently shortness of breath, but it started when the matters with the divorce have started to be severely difficult...As I said before, after the court hearing I was spaced out, which reminded me of dissociative state, but going to the courts with a perspective of meeting him was extremely difficult, so no wonder that I dissociated...

[jozeff]

Hi ikam,

As I understand you taper 1 % per week without holding weeks is that correct?

 

With the 0.025mg per week, in about a year you will be doing 2% per week because you will have only 1,25 mg daily of your meds.

Maybe brass monkey has an opinion on this. To me it doesn't sound like it is too fast a taper but it is you body of course.

 

You will be going from 2.5 mg to 1.25 mg in one year. My doctor would think that is hilarious..... I think you should take it as slow as you feel happy with. If your slow taper feels ok now why rush.

 

My motto has become: who cares if I taper 2 or 5 years. The only one who really cares is myself and especially when the taper seemed to fast. No one will feel the misery in your body if you overrush things.

 

I tapered 0.1 mg per day because that sounded redicilously slow and safe....that was before I heard about brass monkeys method unfortunately.

I will be very very careful with my next attempt.

 

Take it slow and take care. Do not rush if you think you're going too slow.

 

Did you try www.taperoff.co

 

 

Have a good day!!

Jozeff

 

 

 

 

[ikam]

jozeff, I am ok with a slow taper, I know it is important to let my body to adjust, especially that I had experience with Effexor and other meds in 2010, I was doing that really slow, but still ended up with a severe physical pain...

at the same time, I am trying to keep the symptoms in a wider perspective, as in the past when I concentrated on symptoms they seemed to be much worse...this is the reason why I do not read other people posts, as that made me expect symptoms people had... I am not saying I have no symptoms, but they are manageable and when I distract myself I do not feel them, so they do not interfere with aspects of my life, such as my work...

[jozeff]

Hi, I see more similarities between us. I too was taking effexor on the past ( for years 75 and 150 mg on and off).

 

Coming of that medication was not that hard for me, only brain zaps. 

 

What you said about focusing on symptoms is absolutely true!

 

I didn't recognize(or even have) some symptoms until I heard about them. I thought I had tinitus last week and started worrying about that.

 

I've been reading a lot on this forum and started extracting advice and possibilities for my WD but I read a lot of sad stories as well which made me doubt about myself. 

My psychologist adviced me not to focus too much on these symptoms and just LIVE my life. Everybody is different and you and I are unique human beings. We will have to find out our own route I guess.

 

Cheers and have a nice day,

 

 

Jozeff

[ikam]

Jozeff, I also have had tinnitus but when I have no time to concentrate on this it seems less bothersome...

i agree with your psychologist to just live your life. This is how I try to be with this problem...although in the beginning i was reading most of the posts and that was useful...I was in a really bad state there and then...

I have been better...try to stay with a protocol that does cause very little disturbance, but also have stopped reading the posts as I was so much in my symptoms...

I guess now I talk about some symptoms, reflect "on-the-symptoms" ,whereas before I was "in-the-symptoms"...

[ikam]

I started tapering in around 793 days ago from 2.5mg. Since then have managed to decrease by 44%, I am still taking 1.4 mg... 

The beginning was more difficult than now, as the symptoms seemed to be much shatper, I additionally panicked over any new symptoms, making it worse. I am now able to mindfully observe the process, assess the impact of each decrease and wait for what happens rather than predict what may happen... 

I am still unsure about unexpected, that there will be times I cannot predict, that the cumulation of symptoms may erupt in something that may surprise me... 

But, I hope, I am ready, I know that I can get back to the previous dose... 

 

I hope, I will manage... 

 

[jozeff]

Hi ikam,

 

Well done! Seems like you are going to be fine.

 

Not focusing on the symptoms..... that is a very interesting advise indeed. I'm trying to do that the last couple of days.

 

A question....you had been talking escitalopram for two months in the past and you spent the rest of the years tapering? Is that correct? 

What bothers me the most is that it took you almost 800 days to reduce 1 mg of this medication. I mean, this stuff is so powerful I can't believe it. 

 

I greatly admire your courage and wise decision to take it slow. We can only learn from that.

 

 

Happy healing!

 

 

Jozeff

[ikam]

yes, escitalopram is a very strong AD; I was on it for more than 2 months, but it was enough; additionally, I have had a long history of being on AD, so it adds to the picture; that time I was under a combo of meds, some for a migraine, some for sleeping, etc. they all interacted, therefore I had a severe adverse response... I had to cut from 10 to 5mg straight away, then to 2.5mg...then had a long break to stabilise and started tapper...it has taken me longer, but with additional emotional turmoil (change of jobs, moving houses, the divorce process, my mother's death)...

 

I am also on doxepin, beta-blocker, ppi and low dose of hrt...such a combo...

 

 

[ikam]

On 9/23/2018 at 9:24 PM, jozeff said:

Hi ikam,

 

Well done! Seems like you are going to be fine.

 

Not focusing on the symptoms..... that is a very interesting advise indeed. I'm trying to do that the last couple of days.

 

A question....you had been talking escitalopram for two months in the past and you spent the rest of the years tapering? Is that correct? 

What bothers me the most is that it took you almost 800 days to reduce 1 mg of this medication. I mean, this stuff is so powerful I can't believe it. 

 

I greatly admire your courage and wise decision to take it slow. We can only learn from that.

 

 

Happy healing!

 

 

Jozeff

Just to add to no-focusing on the symptoms. I have an ongoing tinnitus for more than one year. I have had it checked, just in case, I know it is drug and stress related. It is always more prominent when it is quiet. When I am distracted by other matters, I am hardly aware of this... 

I know it is there all the time, as I get to hear this every so often... 

So, as I think, the more I am "in my symptoms" the more disturbing they are. 

I am not saying they do not exist and that they are not difficult... 

 

Another aspect I continously reflect upon relates to distinguishing what is WD symptom and what is caused by stress or most likely both? 

 

So anything that calms my system, distracts me or helps me to refraime it helps... 

 

I may have some dissociation symptoms, like in the court two weeks ago, I was really spaced out, but that related to stress bordering with trauma. 

Had I concentrated longer on that I would have had a more severe response. 

I recognised it, named it, understood that it was a normal response for the circumstances... And it did slowly improve...and disappear eventually... 

I also have bad nights and every so often, and I have learnt not to panic... I tend to get up if cannot sleep for longer, solve some puzzle and get back to bed... Next night I sleep better... 

Etc, etc... 

 

[ikam]

Hmm, it never happened before, I accidentally cut too much on Monday, instead of %1 I cut 5%, no symptoms, but got back to my usual decrease... So just 2 days of an accidental decrease... 

I was tempted to stay on 5 but sensible as well, so got back to 1% decrease... 

 

Last two nights I did not sleep too well, could it be because of this? People say that we start feeling decrease at 3,4day after... But perhaps earlier as well? 

[jozeff]

Hi ikam,

 

I wouldn't be surprised if your sleeping is influenced directly. I had some bad nights a few weeks ago when I was tapering. 

 

I don't claim to know anything about this subject but citalopram increase and decrease can cause about anything as far as I've been reading.

 

I think you'd be better off to continue your 1% decrease...

 

Hope your sleeping will improve!

 

Jozeff

[ikam]

Jozeff, thanks, I got back to 1% I rather stay with a slow tapper... 

[ikam]

Exhausted today, is this because of level of stress in life ( had to pay lots of money again, had an extremely busy day at work and there is no chance for any leave in the near future, etc), or is this my accidental (too big) decrease 

Or both? 

[jozeff]

Hi ikam, well it could be both or just one of them, we don't know. What I do know is that this stress (money, work) causes a lot of fatigue and physical symptoms like muscle pains, headache etc.

 

I don't expect too much trouble from your 5% cut for two days to be honest.

 

It is easy to attribute your feelings to the, very short, faster taper. I think you should just take it day by day and not worry too much about your tapering.

 

I hope you will get some relief soon and sleep well!

 

Jozeff

 

[ikam]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/02/antidepressant-withdrawal-symptoms-severe-says-new-report

[jozeff]

Ok that's interesting!

 

I don't hear much about WD symptoms. There's a lot of info about side effects and if they occur it's completely normal and you can eventually switch to another medication.

 

That's what I read everywhere. 

 

The info about WD is kept a secret as much as possible so it seems...

 

Thanks for the info

Jozeff

[Junglechicken]

21 minutes ago, ikam said:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/02/antidepressant-withdrawal-symptoms-severe-says-new-report

 

About time too.....

Thanks for the link Ikam.

There is hope yet.

[ikam]

https://www.madintheuk.com/2018/10/millions-at-risk-from-antidepressant-withdrawal-new-review-concludes/

[ikam]

https://www.nhs.uk/news/medication/calls-for-guidelines-be-revised-over-antidepressant-withdrawal-symptoms/

[Junglechicken]

6 minutes ago, ikam said:

https://www.nhs.uk/news/medication/calls-for-guidelines-be-revised-over-antidepressant-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

This is more good news, thanks Ikam.

 

Changes are happening.