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ikam: tapering escitalopram

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ikam

You just have to remember that many people read threads here but never respond because they may be too ill or just don't know what to say. I did a whole lot of 'talking to myself' in my thread when I got here, still do. It is a way to get stuff out and sometimes people comment, sometimes they don't. Either way is good, I have always been a solitary person who craves closeness and can't seem to get it.

 

So you just keep talking (to yourself if need be) and things will get 'different' if not 'better'. That's a given in life.

 

Oh and don't underestimate the blessings of a job, ANY job. Changes your perspective in a big way (and gets you out of the house!)

Being a solitary person who craves closeness...and not getting it...

I guess, there is a need here to define what closeness means...

I was always craving closeness, but realised that I craved what I did not get from my mother...and this is just impossible as I cannot get this now, because it belongs to the past!

Yes, job will change perspective...i am more worried about being tired from long journey. And I am not used to work...have been at home almost three months...

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ikam

* post and following reply moved from symptoms

 

I am still confused in the matter of distinguishing WD's symptoms from other symptoms, such as for example a cold. I have been dealing with some infection for some time, which was apparently shown in my blood test...I have been feeling worse and worse, trying to say that this is WD. Today I have given up and took some paracetamol and caugh syrup...
I also have had ongoing joint pain, especially in my hands...and I don't know how to treat it, as WD or something else?
My tiredness may be just a simple sign of ongoing stress, but could be WD...
Yesterday my blood pressure dropped really low, it is not usual for me...
Yesterday wanted to sort out my books, ended up with severe pain in my hands...

So what is what?
Seems that there are symptoms typical to WD, but also symptoms that become more troublesome in WD...

I am exhausted today and I did not want to get up from bed...i am just 30days from tappering to 2.5mg...but I know I have some ongoing infection as well...
I have decided to use some medication for infection today...

Edited by Petunia
added note

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Jaywill

I have been in withdrawal for 2.5 years and all I can say is I have had every physical symptom there is and ended up in the hospital for a week. My body is not receiving the signals and my kidneys, heart blood pressure and a bunch of stuff was out of whack. I am starting to have longer windows when I feel energy etc but for one full year I had all the symptoms of MS. Things change and morph and they keep doing that and they can for years. You might eat something that puts you back. My thing right now is my histamine is out of control and i keep having allergic reactions. I work in a high school so being around perfume is normal and its killing me. I had this at the start of withdrawal it went away and now its back worse. Just do what you can to eat healthy, rest , get adequate exercise and avoid stimulating the nervous system

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LexAnger

Hi Ikam,

 

So sorry you are not feeling better. Before I can say much else at this moment, just want to remind you of my bad experience with taking other meds with lex. Pain killer always brings up tons problems for me, be careful with the infection med. blood pressure abnormality and pain are always be my problems, unless you want to increase the dose, maybe just focus on taking care of the symptoms instead of figuring out the cause of them. 30 days are not too long for WD to stabilize, you just went down to 2.5 lately it most probably WD. Immune can be very low due to WD so if you can try some immune boasting supplement it may help. I'm currently taking isotonic OPC3 for that purpose as I have signs of low immune with blisters, low WBC, and some skin rash,

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ikam

Hi Ikam,

So sorry you are not feeling better. Before I can say much else at this moment, just want to remind you of my bad experience with taking other meds with lex. Pain killer always brings up tons problems for me, be careful with the infection med. blood pressure abnormality and pain are always be my problems, unless you want to increase the dose, maybe just focus on taking care of the symptoms instead of figuring out the cause of them. 30 days are not too long for WD to stabilize, you just went down to 2.5 lately it most probably WD. Immune can be very low due to WD so if you can try some immune boasting supplement it may help. I'm currently taking isotonic OPC3 for that purpose as I have signs of low immune with blisters, low WBC, and some skin rash,

Interesting, my ear pain is gone today. But I definetely have some ongoing infection in my throat. You right with other meds, I took paracetamol and cough syrup and I have more paresthesia today...

I booked myself to see the ENT specialist, as my gp treats me for acid reflux. I need to have it checked up as it is getting worse and worse...it started prior to tappering...i need to check what it is...this infection may additionally make me weaker...

 

I think I asked this already, but what about bee-products, such as bee pollen or proplis?

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ikam

I have been in withdrawal for 2.5 years and all I can say is I have had every physical symptom there is and ended up in the hospital for a week. My body is not receiving the signals and my kidneys, heart blood pressure and a bunch of stuff was out of whack. I am starting to have longer windows when I feel energy etc but for one full year I had all the symptoms of MS. Things change and morph and they keep doing that and they can for years. You might eat something that puts you back. My thing right now is my histamine is out of control and i keep having allergic reactions. I work in a high school so being around perfume is normal and its killing me. I had this at the start of withdrawal it went away and now its back worse. Just do what you can to eat healthy, rest , get adequate exercise and avoid stimulating the nervous system

I wish I could just stop working. But I expect very highly stimulating job in next week...if I don't take it, I will be overstimulated by having no money...

 

I know what you say about experiencing many symptoms. When I stopped effexor I had so many of unexplained symptoms and unfortunatelly nobody telling me that it was WD. So I got back to medical treatments...ending up far worse now than before...

 

In terms of food, I think I don't get enough nutrition, as my food intake is highly limited (respond with diarrhea to most of veg, fruit, diary products, etc.)...

I will meet with somebody who helped me to get back on track before...

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LexAnger

Interesting you asked about bee products. I just started a few days ago, no negative effect noticed, at the least.

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ikam

Just to add about sleeping. I remember I had this problem after Effexor, few years ago. I would be waking up around 5am with racing thought, pounding heart, sweating, etc. No matter what I did, I was waking up that time.

 

So as a first solution I started going to sleep earlier, even 8pm, so I got enough sleep. I have noticed that generally my sleep is better, deeper up to midnight, so my quality sleep is before that...

Secondly, I tried to dis-harm my vicious cycle, thinking and panic and body sensation and behaviour...I tried to think (this did not always work...) that "here we are again, my famous 5pm", or I would pre-empt my panic asking myself: "I wonder if I can guess the time? Aha, it is my famous 5pm"...Sometimes this helped me to get a bit more sleep...I tried to reformulate my panic trying to give a different meaning to my body signs, as "racing heart", feeling panicky, higher blood pressure- could be a sign of preparing for the day. I thought I had this habitual response to my faster heart beat- that this was anxiety. But it could also be mobilisation (?)...Actually, when reading about ANS the same body signs may have different meaning...

I also tried to re-channel my anxious energy, I was getting up and tried to get occupied with something else, e.g. exercise programme. But this was a difficult one, as I love to stay in bed...But if I stay in bed I expose myself to more anxiety...As it usually starts spinning faster and faster...

Interestingly, I noticed that changing completely from being preoccupied with anxiety to something as powerful like sex and orgasm made me feeling more recharged than anxious...hmmm...

In terms of behaviour, eventually when I needed to go to work, my anxiety had to be rechanneled to getting to work, etc...

 

It is easy to talk about it, but when I was feeling this it was so difficult, especially that I have tendency to catastrophising...

 

And this has started again, when I wake up, my mind looks for something "negatively attractive" and when I find it, I get the worst possible scenarios (such as that I may a cancer in my throat)...

 

I will need to use my own advice soon...I tend to panic more when have to go to work...At the moment it does not matter so much if I sleep or not, but when I start going to work, it will...Therefore, I will put more "strain" on myself to sleep better, and then I may have more problems with sleeping...

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ikam

Interesting you asked about bee products. I just started a few days ago, no negative effect noticed, at the least.

I asked this some time ago, as my best friend is a bee-keeper and she suggested to me to use bee-pollen instead of vitamins...

 

What have you started using?

 

****************

But as I said, I am going to ENT doctor, as this infection pre-empts tapering. My GP has been treating me for acid reflux, she wants me to do endoscopy. I feel I have some throat infection, deeper down...

I know that a lot can be associated with WD, but I also think that there is a need to check things up...

I had a very bad infection with one of the "super-bugs" more than one year ago, I was on antibiotics for long until they found what it was and started more targeted treatment...I think I am more hyper-vigilant since then...

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LexAnger

Something I don't know the exact name for. It's the raw and original thing produced by the bee, no any process.

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ikam

Something I don't know the exact name for. It's the raw and original thing produced by the bee, no any process.

Bee pollen contains lots of goodies...

Propolis is good for infections- I have added this yesterday.

Stopped cough syrup...got paresthesia from it...

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LexAnger

Parenthesis is what I have been dealing with everyday for long time, somedays mild somedays severe, usually started from dosing and get better hours post dose. It may not be directly related to the cold syrup.

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ikam

Parenthesis is what I have been dealing with everyday for long time, somedays mild somedays severe, usually started from dosing and get better hours post dose. It may not be directly related to the cold syrup.

I think it was a caugh syrup, I read about it and it has lots of interactions...

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ikam

Very sad today, but I cannot consider this as WD. I have akways been sad. When on meds, on higher dose, I felt disconnected, as if somebody cut my feelings...

I see that being sad is actually some progress...

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ikam

Woke up with an anxiety about my health...that something will get wrong, such as stroke, or cancer etc. and I will not able to continue working and pay my bills...

 

Then got a migraine, feeling still unwell, dizzy...

 

Is it possible that I had a mini-stroke?

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LexAnger

Did not see anything you described sounds like a stroke. Never heard anyone got a stroke from WD.

I thought that too long time ago, but now I know that's part of the WD kind of similar to a stroke but not really.

 

Think it this way, no one here ever got one, so you will not either.

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ikam

Did not see anything you described sounds like a stroke. Never heard anyone got a stroke from WD.

I thought that too long time ago, but now I know that's part of the WD kind of similar to a stroke but not really.

 

Think it this way, no one here ever got one, so you will not either.

Thank you. I get this type of health anxiety when I have symptoms which are new for me...

I am also working myself out, as I worry I will fail my new job...

 

I like your new picture :)

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ikam

Really bad headache today, a migraine type. I used to take tryptans before for such headache...

I don't really know what to do now...

 

My systolic blood pressure is a bit low, maybe this explains dizziness...

 

At the same time I have this pulsating sensation in my head...but my pulse is normal...

 

Going to sleep now...

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ikam

Slept really well. No headache today. No paresthesia...

Woke up with anxiety related to my today's consultation with ENT doctor...

My health anxieties picked up recently...

I also had fleeting suicidal thoughts today, nothing new...my usual stuff...

 

If I was on meds since 23 years old, does it mean that I have probably been in a costant withdrawal? I remember stopping meds, such as amitriptiline, my depressive, suicidal mood was back, so I was put back on meds...

 

But my sucidality was before that...

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LexAnger

Hey, happy for you with no headache and paresthasia. Enjoy the break!

 

The new photo is for the hope of being lift up this year, as my old photo looks hurt and sad.

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ikam

Thanks. Your new photo looks much happier :)

 

My ENT appointment went well, nothing to worry about. Just bad acid reflux. He said to take PPPI twice until my throat will heal...i will stay with the dose I have, I think...

 

I have found something that helps my joint pain: http://www.pernaton-uk.com/

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ikam

I have been thinking today about inter-correlation of psychological and biological factors in WD...

I wonder if there is any info about this...

 

I have this wishful thinking that "everything is just psychological", that if I only manage to change my way of responding it will all vanish and I will wake up free of symptoms.

I want to believe that I have more power over this process...

And in some way I have...

Example, if I manage to get out of bed (this is still so difficult, but I was never great with getting up in a good mood) and start something I need to do, e.g. go for my appoitment, I tend to forget about WD, I get distracted...then I have this feeling of accomplishment and i feel happier...

I don't want to say I am free of symptoms, I feel my hands, my palms tinggling and somehow less able...i may worry it will never change...but despite of this I drive my car, change for a train, then underground and another underground, maybe bus...i reach the place I need to visit, have some less or more difficult interaction, then back home...

 

So change the channel works well...so if it was only biological I would not be able to distract myself...

I also think, that sometimes I need to "pretend I am better", stop analysing, concentrating on my symptoms...

I remember when I had rectal pain, I joined pelvic disfunction group and at some point I was getting worse, as I was concentrating more on problems, less on life...

 

My life is much more difficult at present, but I want to feel that I have power to overcome it...

 

This webpage is amazing, so much help, even just through reading...

 

I am glad I am here, this way I will not make the mistake that led me to the relapse...

So, there is a very strong biological element, as I had so many phisical symptoms...

 

I hope I will survive, I will restart working normally...i will resolve some very difficult problems (my husband and I are separated but still connected because of the mortgage...he lives in my house, I cannot sell it as it is in a negative equity, cannot move there, it would cause an emotional relapse...)...

 

I often worry about the state of my body after all the years of taking AD, and WD on few occassion...

Worrying is psychological, state of my body, biological...

It feels as if I am much older...will I ever feel better in this matter?

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LexAnger

That's an amazing thinking ans strategy, iKam! I like it and agree when it's psyc related. It does not work though when it's pure physical such as heart failing due to WD.

 

You will be living again once you are over with this. Think it, even when we have just a couple hour break from symptoms, we feel our spirit lifted up high to the sky, happy, energetic, young feeling, and ambitious.

 

You are not alone, I tell ppl I'm like a retarded 100 yr old.

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ikam

That's an amazing thinking ans strategy, iKam! I like it and agree when it's psyc related. It does not work though when it's pure physical such as heart failing due to WD.

 

You will be living again once you are over with this. Think it, even when we have just a couple hour break from symptoms, we feel our spirit lifted up high to the sky, happy, energetic, young feeling, and ambitious.

 

You are not alone, I tell ppl I'm like a retarded 100 yr old.

I am feeling even older today. Got up very low, almost suicidal. I cannot get back to the past to make repairs...I seem to be failing at present...

Maybe when I will start working I will get my mind occupied with something else?

I am very anxious about this job...I don't feel ready yet...

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ikam

Evening, I am much better...I know I will masnage, as I have always managed...

 

I was thinking today about concept of neuro-emotions and the emotions that are more spontanious...i think under AD the emotions get somehow trapped, at least it happened to me, I stopped crying, but also feeling happy, stopped getting angry, autoagressive, stopped feeling hsppy etc. I think all these emotions become more free, and then we may have more problems in controling them...

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clearday

I have been thinking today about inter-correlation of psychological and biological factors in WD...

I wonder if there is any info about this...

 

I have this wishful thinking that "everything is just psychological", that if I only manage to change my way of responding it will all vanish and I will wake up free of symptoms.

I want to believe that I have more power over this process...

And in some way I have...

Example, if I manage to get out of bed (this is still so difficult, but I was never great with getting up in a good mood) and start something I need to do, e.g. go for my appoitment, I tend to forget about WD, I get distracted...then I have this feeling of accomplishment and i feel happier...

So change the channel works well...so if it was only biological I would not be able to distract myself...

I also think, that sometimes I need to "pretend I am better", stop analysing, concentrating on my symptoms...

 

Just some thoughts -

 

Some people say,

 

The distinction between mind and body - psychological and biological - is an artificial one.

 

But our mind is partly the end product of biochemical processes in our brains.

 

Positive thinking and activity will affect the biochemistry of our brain, and thus affect our minds, our mood, our outlook, and ultimately our physical health. Spirituality and religion can be a big help for some people in this way.

 

I believe we can think ourselves into a depression.

 

But I also think that there are limits to what we can achieve by positive thinking and activity alone.

 

I think it is much harder to think yourself out of a depression once it has gained hold. A true depression is overwhelming and is both physical and mental.

 

Each of our inherited makeups are different. We must do what we can with the vessel we inherited.

 

Many people never sink or succumb to their natural tendency towards depression, by being active, by outrunning the depression which for some people is always lurking to pounce.

 

Others couldn't fall in to a depression if they tried. It's just their nature. They always have a sunny disposition. They are blessed.

 

Our lives are dynamic, not static. If we develop healthy habits, we may stave off depression and anxiety.

 

If we develop bad ways of coping, we may become more vulnerable to depression etc.

 

You ponder if "everything is just psychological", similar to the saying "attitude is everything". Cultivating a positive attitude does wonders.

 

Yet there's no denying that our minds are affected by our bodies and natural processes, regardless of attitude. A long, cold, dark winter plunges many into minor depression. Being hungry can make us anxious, impatient, and irritable. Our mental state is often a  product of physical processes. We have to work against this stuff, and it ain't easy for some of us, due to our makeup.

 

For myself, I know I do best when I'm active. And when, like you said,  you "pretend you are better" - this is something I learned in AA, they call it "acting as if..." they are better. It helps to initiate activity and progress. But still, we must be careful, and realize we are currently sick and compromised - perhaps by WD, perhaps by a weakened nervous constitution - and act within our natural limits. We must know ourselves. Yet try to get the best outcome with what we have. 

 

For myself, I know that when I was in the abyss of my one and only major depression, years ago, I couldn't think myself out of that one, it just wasn't going to happen. I was mired in the deep black hole. I was stuck in cement. Only a lot of time was going to get me out of that one. The whole being, mind and body, changes during major depression.  A true major depression has just as many severe physical effects as it has effects on our emotions and mind. That is when I learned that mind and body really are one. I believe that depression hijacks our brains, telling us that life is not worth living, and our entire biochemistry goes in to a depressed mode. One recent paper suggested that depression is an adaptive response to stress, and I think that has merits. It's just counter-intuitive that depression could have any benefit as an adaptation. But nature is mysterious.

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ikam

 

I have been thinking today about inter-correlation of psychological and biological factors in WD...

I wonder if there is any info about this...

 

I have this wishful thinking that "everything is just psychological", that if I only manage to change my way of responding it will all vanish and I will wake up free of symptoms.

I want to believe that I have more power over this process...

And in some way I have...

Example, if I manage to get out of bed (this is still so difficult, but I was never great with getting up in a good mood) and start something I need to do, e.g. go for my appoitment, I tend to forget about WD, I get distracted...then I have this feeling of accomplishment and i feel happier...

So change the channel works well...so if it was only biological I would not be able to distract myself...

I also think, that sometimes I need to "pretend I am better", stop analysing, concentrating on my symptoms...

 

Just some thoughts -

 

Some people say,

 

The distinction between mind and body - psychological and biological - is an artificial one.

 

But our mind is partly the end product of biochemical processes in our brains.

 

Positive thinking and activity will affect the biochemistry of our brain, and thus affect our minds, our mood, our outlook, and ultimately our physical health. Spirituality and religion can be a big help for some people in this way.

 

I believe we can think ourselves into a depression.

 

But I also think that there are limits to what we can achieve by positive thinking and activity alone.

 

I think it is much harder to think yourself out of a depression once it has gained hold. A true depression is overwhelming and is both physical and mental.

 

Each of our inherited makeups are different. We must do what we can with the vessel we inherited.

 

Many people never sink or succumb to their natural tendency towards depression, by being active, by outrunning the depression which for some people is always lurking to pounce.

 

Others couldn't fall in to a depression if they tried. It's just their nature. They always have a sunny disposition. They are blessed.

 

Our lives are dynamic, not static. If we develop healthy habits, we may stave off depression and anxiety.

 

If we develop bad ways of coping, we may become more vulnerable to depression etc.

 

You ponder if "everything is just psychological", similar to the saying "attitude is everything". Cultivating a positive attitude does wonders.

 

Yet there's no denying that our minds are affected by our bodies and natural processes, regardless of attitude. A long, cold, dark winter plunges many into minor depression. Being hungry can make us anxious, impatient, and irritable. Our mental state is often a  product of physical processes. We have to work against this stuff, and it ain't easy for some of us, due to our makeup.

 

For myself, I know I do best when I'm active. And when, like you said,  you "pretend you are better" - this is something I learned in AA, they call it "acting as if..." they are better. It helps to initiate activity and progress. But still, we must be careful, and realize we are currently sick and compromised - perhaps by WD, perhaps by a weakened nervous constitution - and act within our natural limits. We must know ourselves. Yet try to get the best outcome with what we have. 

 

For myself, I know that when I was in the abyss of my one and only major depression, years ago, I couldn't think myself out of that one, it just wasn't going to happen. I was mired in the deep black hole. I was stuck in cement. Only a lot of time was going to get me out of that one. The whole being, mind and body, changes during major depression.  A true major depression has just as many severe physical effects as it has effects on our emotions and mind. That is when I learned that mind and body really are one. I believe that depression hijacks our brains, telling us that life is not worth living, and our entire biochemistry goes in to a depressed mode. One recent paper suggested that depression is an adaptive response to stress, and I think that has merits. It's just counter-intuitive that depression could have any benefit as an adaptation. But nature is mysterious.

 

Thank you for your input. Yes, we are so complex...I don't want to think that things are "only psychological" , but also don't want to get into "trap" of seeing only biological factors...

Or, maybe I still want to feel I have more power over this difficult process?

 

I am so worried that I will not be able to get back on track, so maybe I create another illusion that I am more able...

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ikam

My first day at work. I managed. It seems that it gives me distraction and adds some fulfilment, which I did not have for long...

I managed to drive through London today!

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clearday

My first day at work. I managed. It seems that it gives me distraction and adds some fulfilment, which I did not have for long...

I managed to drive through London today!

 

Such great news! Moving forward!

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ikam

 

My first day at work. I managed. It seems that it gives me distraction and adds some fulfilment, which I did not have for long...

I managed to drive through London today!

 

 

Such great news! Moving forward!

YES! :)

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Wildflower0214

Congrats!!! :)

 

Just dropping by to say hello. I saw on another thread we share some food intolerance problems. :(

 

I hope we both get some relief soon!

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ikam

Congrats!!! :)

Just dropping by to say hello. I saw on another thread we share some food intolerance problems. :(

I hope we both get some relief soon!

Thank you and hello!

 

yes I have some food intolerances...after stopping effexor it got really bad...i have very limited diet, hence not enough nutrition...

I will be getting some consult in this matter...i need to get more nutrition as I am getting weaker and tired...

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Wildflower0214

 

Congrats!!! :)

Just dropping by to say hello. I saw on another thread we share some food intolerance problems. :(

I hope we both get some relief soon!

Thank you and hello!

 

yes I have some food intolerances...after stopping effexor it got really bad...i have very limited diet, hence not enough nutrition...

I will be getting some consult in this matter...i need to get more nutrition as I am getting weaker and tired...

I'm so sorry. I'm also very very limited and cannot handle supplements at all. So, it's become a mess. I hope you find some answers. I just wanted you to know you are not alone! :)

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ikam

 

 

Congrats!!! :)

Just dropping by to say hello. I saw on another thread we share some food intolerance problems. :(

I hope we both get some relief soon!

Thank you and hello!

yes I have some food intolerances...after stopping effexor it got really bad...i have very limited diet, hence not enough nutrition...

I will be getting some consult in this matter...i need to get more nutrition as I am getting weaker and tired...

I'm so sorry. I'm also very very limited and cannot handle supplements at all. So, it's become a mess. I hope you find some answers. I just wanted you to know you are not alone! :)

Thank you :)...

I hope we will get better soon...

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ikam

40days of 10mg

I have not had any paresthesia last three days or so...

Managed my work and driving quite well. All together I am out of home for 15hours...

This work and driving redirected my attention, which I find helpful...

 

It is possibly too early for my next decrease. What do I need to look for to take this decision? Shall I go 10% at a time this time?

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

40 days at 10mg of what? It is not clear from your signature....

 

I would suggest, since you seem to be coming out of the woods a bit as far as symptoms go, that you might just want to keep holding? Keeping stable for the new job is important and being able to keep to a schedule for sleep, travel and work is something to aim for. If there is no great rush, why don't you hold a month more and see how it goes?

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