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neroli

Thanks for posting in the NZ thread CC, I had thought that was where I posted - but obviously I haven't got the hang of how to put content in the thread that I intend. it to go to.  It's great to see that this is happening.  If only I was well enough to attend.  I have thought about forwarding it to my Dr but not sure I have the guts :(

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nz11

Does anyone know how to start a online national petition to the govt. 

im open to considering starting one and giving it some thought.

might visit the local map tomorrow and make some enquiries

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neroli
On 1/8/2015 at 9:50 AM, nz11 said:

 

 

5. You could also make a complaint via Medical misadventure against your prescribing doctor. (To do this you will need to go to your new doctor and get form ACC45 and ACC 2152 form completed and sent off)

 

nz11 - did you try this?

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nz11

Yes I did.

If you are considering doing it then I encourage you to.

First ask for a copy of all your medical notes then change doctors then file the complaint with ACC.

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neroli
10 hours ago, nz11 said:

 

First ask for a copy of all your medical notes then change doctors then file the complaint with ACC.

Did the doc charge you for medical records - when I asked for a list of my prescribed drugs they charged me an admin fee

 

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neroli
15 minutes ago, neroli said:

Did the doc charge you for medical records - when I asked for a list of my prescribed drugs they charged me an admin fee

 

nz11 - another thing, why do you have to get the medical records before you change doc?  do you ask the doc for them or the DHB?

 

Thanks for any help on this.

 

Neroli

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nz11

No because i requested it while making my HDC complaint. 

I was silly, what happened is i told the doctor face to face i would be making a complaint to the HDC . I did not have at that stage copies of my notes. I believe the doctor then compromised retrospectively my notes. It wasnt until half way through the process i demanded a copy of my notes. Some of the things i then saw were very disappointing.

I was stupid i should have got a copy of my notes then left the doctor and found a new one then made the complaint (in that order)....it would be much better to make it a surpirse for the ex doctor. 

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nz11

Do not think for one moment that a doctor is the epitomy of honesty.

They will go out of their way to lie especialy if their credibility and job is on the line. 

I also now know that they are capable of retrospectively altering notes. eg i have never used the 's' word in front of a doctor. However i then discover on reading my notes that on one occasion he had written 'nz11 says he is not suicidal' . The inference is obvious. That is just straight out nonsense in that i didnt say that. It is true that i wasnt suicidal (well i was during wdl but i never told them that and this was prior to wdl because in wdl i kept myself safe ...i kept away from doctors) but the inference here is obvious he was trying to paint a picture but had nothing to back it up with, no clinical assessment ever, so he cleverly wrote that.

In other places i then saw other clever similar tricks. 

I was not happy. After i exhausted the HDC and local health board i then filed the ACC complaint. I then took them to review. After that i had to drop it as the next step was going to court and i had no proof ot1her than my word. There are no biomarkers for wdl or other damage. And i was going to lose and at that stage if you lose you must pay ACC's court costs. However i was so glad i exhausted all the processes. Although i lost the review the mediating lawyer whispered to me as i left the room 'thankyou for speaking out about this we need more people like you ' [So let the next wave of attack come from a neroli]  

It was all a great experience and i learned heaps and gained a lot of confidence even though i lost all battles.  

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neroli

nz11 - thanks, useful information .  I know they were cagey when I asked for my prescription notes.  I have yet to find a Dr who will accept that the drugs have caused me damage, so it's a bit moot at this point.

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nz11
2 minutes ago, neroli said:

so it's a bit moot at this point.

Why?

You wont find a doctor in the whole country who will accept that but that doesnt stop you from standing up for yourself and making a complaint.

They need to hear from more people like yourself. The more people that go through the process the more it will be in their face and they cant deny it.

Ask for your notes in writing then you dont have to discuss it. 

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nz11

The new doctor doesnt have to believe you to file the acc complaint initiation, its done online from his clinic. You just tell him thats what you are going to do. And dont waver your conviction. He cant stop you from doing this.

Dont worry the new doctor argued with me and nearly got me to drop it but i stuck thankfully to it and when he said there is no way they will admit this claim i just quietly said well lets let ACC decide that and lets just see what they have to say. Then time was running out as i pointed out so he just hurredly submitted it online and we were away on a great complaint adventure. 

i encourage you to make the compalint if you feel you would like to. ACC will decline it then take them to a review hearing. It all costs you nothing. But i bet your ex doctors acc premiums go up...so thats something.

After listening to me harp on...they know...they know that doctors are harming people but im pretty sure they didnt need me to tell them that. 

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neroli
15 minutes ago, nz11 said:

Why?

You wont find a doctor in the whole country who will accept that but that doesnt stop you from standing up for yourself and making a complaint.

They need to hear from more people like yourself. The more people that go through the process the more it will be in their face and they cant deny it.

Ask for your notes in writing then you dont have to discuss it. 

I at least have to find a doc who is willing to hear it and manage my tapers in the way I want to do it.  my present doc seems t be on board with that, just that she didn't back me up with the iatrogenic damage thing - so what's the use of changing docs if I'm going to have to struggle to get the taper rates I need (esp. the benzos).  all needs taking into account, I'm afraid.

 

BTW I just tried getting on to Manage My Health, my Med Centre is advertising it but I can't see any records there.  thought that would be a good way to get to see them without asking.

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nz11
1 hour ago, neroli said:

I at least have to find a doc who is willing to hear it and manage my tapers in the way I want to do it.  my present doc seems t be on board with that, just that she didn't back me up with the iatrogenic damage thing - so what's the use of changing docs if I'm going to have to struggle to get the taper rates I need (esp. the benzos).  all needs taking into account, I'm afraid.

 

BTW I just tried getting on to Manage My Health, my Med Centre is advertising it but I can't see any records there.  thought that would be a good way to get to see them without asking.

okay im a little confused have you now changed doctors or not? 

 

Of course your old doctor is not going to back you up regarding iatrogenic (doctor caused) harm. Who wants to admit they harmed someone! She sure doesnt want to admit error. Shes the doctor and she will treat you like an idiot. No healer wants to admit they were the harmer.

 

I think you need to decide if the gloves are off or not. Either you have been harmed or not as you see it. If the gloves are off then there is no love lost this is deadly serious because it is. My doctor was not happy i was making a complaint. I didnt care. Guess what 2 months after i intiated a compliant he was in the local paper in an article titled  'pill-popping ends' . Clearly i did him a favour. 

I would think notes would be something that cant be seen by the public like that. Its not a problem  to write the doctor and ask for a copy if he or she charges a copy fee then sobeit. Then the bases are covered noone can change anything.  Phone the local health board and ask if there is an official form for 'request notes' 

 

Some kiwis feel they dont want to rock the boat ive discussed it with them. If thats the case then sobeit. However personally i feel a strong conviction and moral obligation that this is a boat that needs not rocking but sinking! 

 

There is no pressure here if you dont want to exhaust these complaint processes then you dont have to. But be nice if you did imo :)

 

 

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neroli

no, I haven't changed docs.  I might be looking around though.  as far as rocking boats is concerned, I can't afford to be left struggling in the water, so I need to keep the boat as stable as possible.  I will do what I can to get the word out where I can - but I am in too vulnerable a situation at the moment to go take certain actions. 

 

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neroli

nz11, reply from CARM that I got today, attached CCF23022018_2.pdf

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Songbird
On 2/14/2018 at 8:47 PM, neroli said:

 

It's a very good article.  I am always wondering why nobody seems to be talking about the real causes of so-called "mental illness".  I believe there is something wrong with our society - and I'm not talking about just NZ here.  And it isn't just about how we need to be more community-minded, look after each other better, and all that stuff either.  I won't go getting all political here, but I believe there is something very wrong with our modern-day western culture - in terms of both physical and psychological environment.

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neroli

Songbird, yes it is a good article.

 

Sadly, here is another article that supports the BS side of things.  There is so much wrong with the "findings" - eg short term analysis for a kick off.  Smug ascertain that this puts the whole debate about anti-depressants to bed - ugh - no mention of long-term effects, withdrawal effects etc.  it's a long old road to getting recognition of the adverse side of the equation.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-43143889

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neroli

NZ Mental Health review

 

I wrote to the Minister of Health telling him about the harm antidepressant drugs had done to me and sending him links to the Public Health England review of prescription drug harms and the Mental Health in Crisis talks happening in New Zealand.

 

I got this response:

 


"Thank you for your email of 25 January 2018 to the Minister of Health, Hon Dr David Clark, about the Government Inquiry into Mental Health and Addiction and sharing your own story. Dr Clark has asked me to respond on his behalf. 

The Inquiry is independent from both the Minister and Ministry of Health.  This ensures that the Inquiry acts independently, impartially and fairly.  While the Minister of Health was responsible for appointing the Inquiry and receiving its report, to maintain independence the Minister of Internal Affairs is the Minister responsible for its administration.  It is not appropriate for the Minister or the Ministry to comment on the Inquiry while it is under way.   

You can, however, contact the Inquiry directly via email (mentalhealthinquiry@dia.govt.nz).  You can also read more information about the Inquiry on the Department of Internal Affairs website (www.dia.govt.nz/Government-Inquiry-into-Mental-Health-and-Addiction), including information about how the public can be involved. 

Mental health and addiction are issues for all New Zealanders and the Inquiry needs to hear from people with a range of experiences – from people accessing services and their family members, through to emergency service workers and those working in the mental health and addiction sectors. 

Thank you for writing."
 
I haven't looked at the links yet - but will do to find out how to submit to the enquiry.  Thought other Aotearoans would be interested.

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neroli

NZ Mental Health Review.

 

NZ members, please check this link for information about when the review will start and how you can contribute:  https://www.dia.govt.nz/Mental-Health---Opportunities-to-connect

 

It says:

 

Our estimated timing for engagement is:

  • Consultation document release: end March/early April
  • Submissions open: April – May 2018
  • Hearings: May – June 2018
  • Direct engagement with interested parties: March – August / September 2018.

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Ryder
Posted (edited)

Hey Kiwis,

 

I am from Oz but I have every single post on this thread and just wanted to say you are doing great things. You are doing it better than us Ozzy's just by doing something. We do nothing except provide free benefits giving people free drugs or close to my goodness.

Alot of what was written here (especially the story by NZrecovery) mirrors my own. I was put on maybe at 17-18 years of age and never able to complete University as I was given Cymbalta as my very first drug just after finishing school at 17-18 years.

I went to university 3-times. Still was never able to finish because of the concentration, panic attacks and symptoms I never fully understood at the time.

 

Many times I wanted to end my own life as I watched my friends kick-on and develop their own careers. I didn't because I was afforded the opportunity to travel, and experience things and meet people I would never have got the chance to otherwise.

 

I am so glad you guys here, although you think it is small, are doing something in NZ because almost all of the time when NZ does something before us, we follow you guys.

 

Keep ya head up,

Ryder.

 

Edited by ChessieCat
removed obscenity

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neroli
On 3/6/2018 at 7:32 AM, neroli said:

NZ Mental Health Review.

As well as the email I posted above, I got a letter from the Minister, Hon David Clark re. my harmful experience of psych drugs  - I couldn't attach it, it's too big a file but in it he encourages me to participate in the review.  So, if anyone else wants to, please keep an eye on when submissions open - should be early April I think.

 

 

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SunnySkies

Hello I am new and am in New Zealand.

 

I am now trying to get off these pills (and recently) only recently found out about the withdrawls. I am upset because no one warned me. I am livid about this all. 

I am currently on Zoloft and got withdrawls from a drop in dose like wham.

 

What annoys me is I have been on amitriptiline decades ago and did not suffer any withdrawls from that so why on earth did they stick me on zoloft instead of that again.

 

It really pees me off that not one doctor warned or informed me about possible withdrawls, I think it is outrageous.

 

Then I have the pharmistist tell me "most people dont have any problems" when I asked about getting liquid form, and of course now doctor is saying alternate days to reduce the dose down. Why on earth do I want to use alternate days is that not going to cause a bump up then a bump down.

 

They dish these out and then the "tapering" they recommend is just nonsense! 

 

 

 

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Songbird

Hi SunnySkies.  We have quite a few Kiwis here, although some have not been very active recently.

 

I had a pharmacist tell me that when you are ready to come off (paroxetine) you can just stop taking it!  He said if you have problems stopping, it's because you are not ready to stop yet.  He even told me he was an expert on SSRIs and went around the country giving lectures about them to medical professionals.  Not only was he full of it, he was spreading the misinformation.  I never set foot in that pharmacy again.

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neroli

Hello SunnySkies

 

Welcome - sorry that you are experiencing bad withdrawal effects.  There's good information on this site about tapering and all sorts of coping stuff.  I hope you will find a way to get off the drugs with minimal effects.  I too am so angry that I was not made aware of the potential harm from withdrawal - nor given any advice about tapering.  It's just not good enough.

 

I've just listened to an interview with Dr Dee Mangin - formerly at University of Otago - who did research on withdrawal from Prozac - she's on from 5.29 - about 13.00 - http://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/i-was-sobbing-uncontrollably-patients-say-antidepressants-difficult-to-quit-1.4658787

 

I also made a submission to the mental health inquiry about these matters - you can find out more here if you want to submit - I sent an email:  https://www.mentalhealth.inquiry.govt.nz

 

It's been quiet on this thread for a while.  Sorry your experience has got you here - but again, welcome

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Boomer

I thought the NZ members may be interested in reading this newsletter - especially near the bottom where I have increased the font and made the wording bold!
    
Patients' Rights Advocacy 
Waikato Incorporated 
Patrons: Anna & Rens de jonge 
Dear Members & Friends: 
 

 
2018 is well underway and it is time to schedule our AGM once more! Please 
keep this date: Sunday 10th of June, 1:30-4pm and we will gather at a venue 
different from the usual one, but it is nearby. Western Community Centre 46 
Hyde Ave, Nawton. Simply pass our office on Grandview, but take the left- 
turn past the shopping centre and follow the road. It will curve and the park will 
be visible. The large community centre is right there! We look forward to seeing 
you all there. 
Our year started with rush when Paris Williams rang in January to see if we 
would like to meet his friend Oryx Cohen who was involved in a method of 
giving support to those with schizophrenia that excluded medication. Oryx had 
produced a video in the USA and was prepared to speak after a showing. This 
we did in Hamilton, at the Celebrating Age Centre. It was very well received 
and after we had a most successful question & answer period with Oryx. 
We then prepared for a day of seminars with the 'Mental Health in Crisis' 
International speakers. That was held at Claudelands Event Centre, and we had 
standing room only in the end. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity to hear 
Professor Peter Gotzsche from Denmark and Robert Whitaker from the USA. 
Along with our own Dr. Bruce Cohen, an Auckland University expert on the 
Sociology of Mental Health. Maria Bradshaw spoke on suicide (having lost her 
son to suicide) and others. It was a remarkable. afternoon! PRA WI was very 
proud to have sponsored the event and I believe Hamilton had the best turn out 
of all the venues where our illustrious speakers presented. 
Peter Gotzsche had a rather contentious meeting with John Crawshaw in 
Wellington. Dr. Crawshaw proved yet again, to be immoveable in the matter of 
Mental Health treatment. Imagination and compassion seem to be foreign in his 
vision ofNZ Mental Health Treatment! 
. Tomorrow we will attend one of the panels designated to exploring Mental 
Health issues in New Zealand under the new government's inquiry. We shall all 

 

hope that this inquiry will yield some of the badly needed directions we must 
take. 
But, of course we are not here exclusively for Mental Health issues. 
We are very pleased to see that the American Government has now completed a 
12 year study on Fluoride and Teeth. They have confirmed that a Chinese study 
was correct and that ingesting fluoride DOES reduce IQ in children. They also 
established that there was very little benefit to developing teeth. We expect that 
the Government will abandon this outdated practice very soon. None of us want 
to reduce our children's intelligence! 
In the meantime ... we are hunting funds as always. We have had an 
astonishingly generous offer of 3 acres near Kihikihi if we can raise money to 
build a retreat and staff it, for those who wish to reduce their medications and 
be supported while doing so. All advice will be gratefully received and 
considered. This project must have long term support if it is to be successful for 
more than just a season! Sustaining it will be the hardest part! 

We also need some tech support to get our web site updated and managed! If 
you are technically proficient and have time to spare ... we would love to hear 
from you! A reminder that all subscriptions are due and we will pick a sub from 
the hat to gift a years worth of the New Zealand Natural Health Journal. .. first in 
has best chance of winning! 
We look forward to seeing you on the 10th of June. 
Warmest Regards 
    . __ .~~ ... -t'~c~'     ." - 
    ~"'-'"     ~ u-- 
Carolyn McKenzie (Chairperson) and the team 
Mischele, Tom, Jan, Dave, Alice, Russelle 
and Margarets X 2. 
 

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Boomer
On 5/18/2016 at 1:16 PM, nz11 said:

Scales for weighing

 

A fellow kiwi doing a very slow taper recommended some scales to me so i thought i would share it here:

He says:

................................//....................

The actual purchase was made through a seller on Amazon. 

Here's a link to the digital scales I have:

http://www.americanweigh.com/product_info.php?products_id=2116

 

For delivery,
I went with a combo of

1. free shipping within US

2. NZ Post YouShop service to bring out to NZ

 

Some info on YouShop here:https://www.nzpost.co.nz/tools/youshop

 

I'm very happy with the scales & find it helpful having the accessories that came with them.

 

American Weigh Scales also do a more economically priced version:

http://www.americanweigh.com/product_info.php?products_id=580

 

................................//........................................

.American Weigh GeminiPRO Digital Milligram Scale 20g x 0.001g

[Remember 0.001g is the same as 1mg ]

GPR-20_main.jpg

Haven't seen you around for a while NZ11.  How are things going?

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neroli
On 5/15/2018 at 10:19 AM, Boomer said:

We have had an 
astonishingly generous offer of 3 acres near Kihikihi if we can raise money to 
build a retreat and staff it, for those who wish to reduce their medications and 
be supported while doing so

Boomer, thanks for posting this.  It is astonishing and validating at the same time - that a group of people in New Zealand recognise there are people who are trying to taper of drugs and having difficulties with it and that a retreat to help those in need is envisioned.  I really thought we were a very small percentage of the population (us damaged by psych meds) but this suggests otherwise.  I'm not happy for the people going through it - but happy that it's recognised and taken seriously.  As many of us have found out the medical establishment doesn't believe our experience of withdrawal/damage, so Yay to PRA Waikato!

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Boomer
22 hours ago, neroli said:

Boomer, thanks for posting this.  It is astonishing and validating at the same time - that a group of people in New Zealand recognise there are people who are trying to taper of drugs and having difficulties with it and that a retreat to help those in need is envisioned.  I really thought we were a very small percentage of the population (us damaged by psych meds) but this suggests otherwise.  I'm not happy for the people going through it - but happy that it's recognised and taken seriously.  As many of us have found out the medical establishment doesn't believe our experience of withdrawal/damage, so Yay to PRA Waikato!

Yes YaY alright.  Just hope they are able to raise the money!

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Ryder

As I’m writing this to you across the ditch I am in a process of x tapering medicines from a psych hospital I voluntarily went into. I did this as I had no tangible professional support, and advice to wd off Zoloft. Unfortunately, no matter what I tried I couldnt re-instate Zoloft to a dose I could tolerate to re-instate. I was unfortunately given no alternative from the Doc here(And I’m in the private health facility the best Aus can offer) but to try an alternative drug. They are knowledgeable on medicine, but when i brought up withdrawals - he likened it to taking Chocolate for 3 years and then stopping it, and backed this up w that the international standard states: coming off Zoloft for doctors is guided to them as less than a few weeks. I was 75mg > 0mg in just two weeks. Horrendous.

 

I’m Happy that you guys are doing something about it. We just accept it here in Oz it’s so damn wrong. If you Kiwis  can do something about it, hopefully we can follow your example.

 

Sincerely,

 

Ryder 

 

 

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neroli
22 hours ago, KarenB said:

I just read this, and sent RadioNewZealand an email telling them of my experience.  Thought some of you might like to do the same.  http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/358974/over-half-of-antidepressant-users-suffer-withdrawal-study.

Hello KarenB

 

I sent mine in, too.  You're right, we have to do whatever we can to get this lodged in people's consciousness - particularly the medical industry.  Glad you sent yours in.

 

Wishing you well

 

Neroli

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Cole

Hey Guys new to this website, just on here for general support and to help out as much as i can. Its a horrible experience tapering of these drugs, good to know theres support out there and being able to connect with people sharing the same experience is definitely going to help. 

cheers

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