Phenom: I think I screwed myself and my taper up bad (with an updose)

[Phenom]

Just to check back in (was in a rough patch when I last posted 2 weeks ago) I am once again doing well and feeling stabilized now at 13.5mg. My body has some invisible cliff below 15mg it seems, and the drop to 13.5 was more strenuous than any of my prior drops (I got screwed up going from 15 to 12.5 way back too and had to start over).

 

However, I was determined to stick it through and a couple days after I posted I started feeling quite a bit better again. Similar to when I tapered off benzos, my body seems to hit it's peak of W/D symptoms 7-10 days after cutting the dose back.

 

A few of the things that have worked together to noticeably improve my mood and help through the w/d in general.

 

1. Swapped out coffee for green tea, went from 3-4 espressos per day to 3-4 green teas per day. The antioxidants in green tea just seem much better, and I notice a MUCH smoother energy free of jitters and crashes. Through personal research I discovered that L-Theanine in green tea really helps counter the anxiety-inducing impact of the caffeine, and that there are many other mood and energy boosting compounds which are more gradual and don't induce a caffeine crash. My overall energy levels have been much more consistent and sustained throughout the day, but I had to stick out some minor caffeine w/d symptoms when I first swapped over since green tea has much less caffeine than espresso shots.

 

2. Supplemented my diet with a high quality multivitamin and a high quality Omega 3 source. The B vitamins in my multi along with the minerals (zinc, magnesium, copper) have helped with both energy and sleep, and I'm taking 1.5g of Omega 3 per day which studies have shown to have promising impacts on mental health in general.

 

3. Exercise! I try to get 20-30 minutes of cardio in at least 3x a week and lift weights 3-4x a week as well. When I'm consistent with those two things I typically feel better all around.

 

4. Melatonin (not daily). I am a complete night owl and find myself staying up til all hours on weekends, throwing off my sleep cycle and ruining my sleep all week. If/when this happens I'll spring for 1mg of Melatonin on Sunday (and Monday if needed) to get me to sleep early and in sync with my weekday schedule. This has helped significantly, but I try to keep it to a minimum, just enough to straighten out my circadian rhythm.

 

5. Part time work... I re-evaluated my work/life balance and re-prioritized my monetary and happiness goals and what I thought would give me those most out of life. I came to an agreement with my employer that allows me to work 20 hours a week (instead of 40) and maintain my benefits. I'm spending my newly freed up time pursuing an alternative self-employment career path that I'm very passionate about, which has been very rewarding and nice. I no longer feel such a slave to my job, and have the balance that I wanted deep down.

 

I leave in 5 days on a tropical 2 week vacation... and since stress levels will be at all time lows I have just tapered to 12.5 mg (after 3-4 weeks at 13.5mg). I want to allow the stress-free vacation to facilitate and counter-balance the effects of the cut.

[Altostrata]

Good for you, Phenom. Perhaps a nice long hold will help you reduce even lower. When you resume tapering again, you might want to reduce by less than 10%. You might be able to do 5% every 2 weeks.

 

Have a good vacation!

[Phenom]

Great advice... and thanks for the support. I do believe I will favor 5% every 2 weeks rather than 10% every 4 weeks just to ease the jumps since at this dosage the 10% drops seem to hit a little bit harder.

 

I will probably begin the next phase after holding at 12.5mg for 4 weeks or so.

[Phenom]

I'm starting week two right now of 11.67mg. Slight w/d but nothing bad and I think mostly caused by a missed dose (went to a wedding and forgot to take dose that night).

 

I plan on holding through the end of this week at 11.67mg and evaluating another possible drop to 10mg which I will hold for at least 4 weeks to fully stabilize.

[Hopefull]

Good for you, Phenom.

Best wishes, Hopefull.

[Phenom]

As planned cut down to 10mg three nights ago... So far so good.

 

Purely anecdotal but supplementing with a good multi and Fish Oil seems to have made cuts easier (maybe purely my imagination).

 

Have been back into a solid routine of work/exercise and feel great after my workouts (big endorphine boost).

 

I'll see how this goes for the remainder of this two week cycle and evaluate from there.

 

The farther I cut down the more I feel like my old self... Especially in terms of emotional connections with people and feelings such as happiness/excitement/drive/etc. That alone is motivating enough to stick out the w/d symptoms and continue making steady progress toward my ultimate goal of no meds.

[KT38]

Can you please share the directions on how to make your green smoothies?  They sound delicious! Thanks!

[Phenom]

For the green smoothies I usually put 12 oz almond milk, 1 cup spinach, 1 cup kale, a banana, few tbsp of greek yogurt, some ginger root, and sometimes garlic and then just blend it up. Ends up being fairly low cal, and full of good nutrients and healthy foods/antioxidants/anti-inflammatory.

 

As far as my taper goes I had some W/D hit me about a week after I dropped to 10mg and stick around for several weeks. Almost long enough for me to start to think it was a relapse rather than W/D, because I had a slight return of the original symptoms in addition to W/D symptoms (hyper-arousal in crowded areas especially). 

 

With the W/D symptoms came more motivation though, and so I've been much better on my diet/exercise regimen despite the W/D setback that I had, and I endured through it and just decided to stick it out as long as it took to pass. I've been fairly W/D free for about a week now and will consider a cut to 9mg end of this weekend.

 

Cheers!

[Phenom]

Just wanted to stop by and update my progress in this thread... I'm down to 7.5mg of Celexa now for the past couple days, was at around 8.5 for 9 days before that, and actually feeling really good.

 

My motivation to accomplish daily tasks, work, and achieve my goals has risen as my dosage has dropped. I can actually feel my emotions a lot more lately, which is a good thing, and I will continue my taper all the way to 0.

 

Green tea/Fish Oil/Multi remain staples in helping me combat the W/D symptoms, and when I combine them with daily meditation and cold showers my mood feels significantly better... I'm just keeping the momentum rolling as long as possible.

[bromor]

I've had a lot of too fast tapers, updosing ect & it really gave me hope to read this! I'm currently trying to stabilize & am promising myself that patience is indeed a virtue in tapering. Thank you for sharing.

[AliG]

Hi Phenom,

I have been wary of green tea, because of the caffeine, but the theanine  seems to balance it out , it seems.  I might try it.  Here's an interesting piece on it.

 

http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2006/1/report_theanine/page-01

 

I'm happy for you .

 

Ali.

[Phenom]

I actually came across a TED Talk today that was about growing new brain cells... I think it's pretty well researched knowledge now that the brain can generate new neurons, and that depression/anxiety are very closely associated with a lack of neurons. It seems logical, then, that engaging in things that promote neuron generation would ease and possibly defeat anxiety/depression depending on the severity of it.

 

I found that many of the things I've spoken of in this log, especially the ones that I've anecdotally discovered are most helpful to me, were the top things on the list of activities/habits that promote new neuron generation. Namely, to summarize if you don't want to watch the whole 11 minute I'll summarize.

 

Some New Neuron Promoting Agents: Reveratrol, Omega 3, Calorie Restriction, Exercise, Antioxidant rich foods (e.g. blueberries), Folic Acid, Zinc, Flavonoids (Green Tea), Intermittent Fasting, Caffeine, Multi-vitamin

Some New Neuron DEmoting Agents: Vitamin Deficiencies, Saturated Fat, Sugar, Alcohol, Obesity, Inactivity

 

[Phenom]

It's been about 6 weeks since my last dosage update to 7.5mg... I dropped to 5mg and held for about 3 weeks, and then dropped to 3.33 and held another couple weeks.

 

Last night dropped to 2.5mg and still feeling good! Continuing active/healthy lifestyle and taking advantage of holiday shut down at work to move a little quicker with no stress.

[Fresh]

Hmm ,   7.5mg to 5mg is a 33 1/3% decrease.  Hold for 3 weeks , and drop from 5mg to 3.33mg - another

33 1/3% drop.

 

You understand that withdrawal can be delayed , right?

It would be a real shame to blow things right at the sticky end by rushing . . . you've put in too much hard work

this year.

[Phenom]

Hi everyone,

 

I had tapered my way down to 2.5mg of Celexa from 30mg successfully with minor symptoms that I was able to easily manage and get by with.

 

I fear I may have grown overconfident with my progress and success in tapering to that point so a month ago I made what may have been a mistake.

 

I went CT off of my 2.5mg dose of Celexa (prior I was dropping by 1.25mg every few weeks to a month). For the first couple of weeks I felt fine, pretty much the same as when I was on the 2.5mg and everything was manageable.

 

I thought I was in the clear and that I was just someone that could more easily/readily get away with jumping off the meds at a slightly higher dose.

 

Now about a week ago (3 weeks after CT from 2.5mg Celexa) I felt some stress/anxiety creeping in, but I attributed it to external stressors and ignored it.

 

This week and last weekend (4 weeks after CT) I've had some depressed feelings and fairly intense waves of anxiety rolling through my body. When I say fairly intense I mean more intense than any anxiety I've felt throughout my taper.

 

I'm not sure if this could be a delayed reaction from CT the meds but it seems weird I would feel totally fine for 3 weeks and then this start happening. What concerns me is that day by day my situation is getting worse rather than improving.

 

Is there anyone out there who can suggest a decent course of action from here? I don't know if I should attempt to stick it out since it's been a month, reinstate at 2.5mg, or reinstate at a lower dose. Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated, thanks.

 

I've tried things like meditation, deep breathing, etc which temporarily give relief but within 30 minutes after it's all back. It feels physiological in nature as opposed to cognitively based. Heart palpitations, knot in stomach, digestive issues, etc.

[Phenom]

Whoa, things just got a bit more worrisome for me. I was sitting at my desk at work and just saw what looked like a bunch of flashing tiny lights moving around in my field of vision.

 

They were of course not real, but something weird in my vision... I exercised earlier today which helped temporarily but now I have that swimming detached from my body feeling again, and the flashing lights thing freaks me out.

 

I just don't know how much I should reinstate at 1 month after a CT from 2.5mg. I'm debating between 1mg and 2.5mg.

[brassmonkey]

Hi Phenom--  So you've seen the Ashema too. That's what I refer to them as when I get them. Little bright pinpricks of light at random places in your vision.  They are similar in nature to a migraine aura and can be accompanied by many of the same symptoms, hence the swimming detached feeling.  They don't mean that you're going to get a migraine though.  They are just another of those wonderful sensations we get with WD and nothing to be upset about. 

 

In Hebrew mythology the Ashema (I'm probably spelling it wrong) are the spirits of light that manifest in the manner you describe and are the bearers of peace and well being for the people who see them.

 

I think your idea to do a very small reinstatement is a good idea.  I would not do any more than 1mg to start with, and if you have a way to measure it I might start with 0.5mg.  Do remember that any reinstatement will take a minimum of four days to become steady state in the blood, so for that time symptoms could be random and unpredictable.  Once it reaches steady state, then the brain can start to sort things out and get control over the symptoms.  That can take several weeks to happen, so don't be upset if things don't calm down right away.

[Phenom]

After doing some research I found that the steady state levels for Celexa based on its half life are around 2.5x the daily dosage... So to try to give myself a quick boost I took 2.5 mg today and will probably go forward cutting the 10mg pills into 6 so 1.67mg a day for a couple weeks and see how it goes.

 

Funny thing is that within 4-5 hours of that initial dose my symptoms improved markedly... Still don't feel 100% normal but I feel much better than before taking that small dose.

 

Oh the power of these medications! It continues to amaze and surprise me still. My fiance notified me I've been extra irritable and moody the past month, I suppose I had learned to ignore w/d symptoms to the point that they had to get more severe before it sounded an alarm for me.

 

Anyway, I have high hopes for reinstatement to work given the almost immediate symptom relief I've experienced, and I wont make the mistake of CT too soon again. I don't mind a 12-18 month taper from 2.5mg if it gets me there with no noticeable ill effects.

[Fresh]

Hi Phenom , I moved your new topic from Tapering to here , as it's the next chapter in

your personal journey.

 

It's not unusual at all that you felt fine for the first few weeks after stopping. That's

the "delayed withdrawal" , it's why people feel so confident to do cuts after just a week or

two. I remember feeling especially good after decreasing too much , a little euphoric , elated.

Fantastic! But then the downswing after a few weeks , as you got.

 

Reinstating so quickly is sure to be a success for you given your initial response.

Sorry this has happened , it's a bummer that you got so close to out.

 

bw , Fresh

[Phenom]

Thanks for the advice and input Fresh and brass, had I heeded your advice from the end of last year I wouldn't be in this situation. I guess I let the irrational desire to be off medication overwhelm my better sense and the collective knowledge on here.

 

You are spot on about the euphoric feeling the first week or two after dropping. It's almost as if all the side effects of the meds melt away but you still have the benefits of the meds in your system.

 

I feel better today than the past couple of days were when I began to really hurt, but I imagine it'll be at least 1-3 weeks before I begin to feel like I did prior to jumping off too fast. Next time I jump off I will be at a small fraction of a milligram, and I will taper 10% every 4 weeks until that point. No more messing around and no more taking risks, I don't want to take reinstating for granted and take the chance that it doesn't work.

 

Now that I have the time to reflect on the past month, it has been filled with stress but I've definitely been noticeably more irritable. There were multiple occasions where I had outbursts when I felt overwhelmed in the past two weeks particularly, and I had a crying fit last weekend (I haven't cried in well over 2 years). I think I have my fiance extremely worried, as she has no control over my reaction to these meds and the uncertainty doesn't sit well with her.

 

I'm optimistic, I will update this thread when I feel better or if anything changes for the better or worse. I hadn't updated in a few months because everything was running smoothly and I was feeling good prior to me getting a little too ambitious.

 

My only symptoms today are a headache, a much milder version of the akathisia I felt the past couple days, and a much milder version of that strange feeling you get when you updose or start an SSRI (for me it's a slight zombie/detachment feeling for a few days). However all of the above are mild and manageable, hoping that things gradually improve from here.

[Vonnegutjunky]

The lights are usually an indication of ocular migraines- I get them and have had them for years -

[Phenom]

Today is day 3 after going back on the meds... I read back through the thread to my first post when I had gone too fast before and up-dosed.

 

I went from feeling bad W/D after cutting too quickly, to up-dosing and having a few days of relief/zombie mode, and then to a few weeks of feeling shaky and bad again before stabilizing.

 

Yesterday was relatively good for me (mostly felt zombie/numbed), as was the first night after I went back on the smaller dose of the meds. Day 3 feels like crap, it seems my body has quickly made the adjustments and the anxiety/derealization has come back full force.

 

I recognize the pattern, know I went through it before and came out the other side fine, but there's never a guarantee that it'll work every time. The uncertainty of stabilization and acceptance of the reinstatement worries me, but I'm going to just keep on at this smaller dose (1.67mg) and cross my fingers that it works itself out.

 

I'm a bit worried this time particularly because I was CT for a full month before this hit, so I have no idea how much my physiology has changed during that time or if it will accept the drug again and stabilize.

 

Missed work today because I woke up every hour of the night and the morning headache/groggy feeling still hasn't subsided, but is accompanied by anxiety and tinnitus. Although maybe work is better than rumination, I just didn't feel up to the task and am hoping the weekend will help.

[Phenom]

Just a quick update... I've held my up-dose for 6 days now and feel significantly better, close to back to normal with only very minor reminders/touches of symptoms.

 

Crazy but it was definitely the CT from 2.5mg and it definitely took 3-4 weeks to set in, but quite obvious given the change since reinstating at a low dose.