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Anyone taking copper?


Meimeiquest
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1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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As one who has had executive function problems long before I touched any psych meds, I was curious about his claim that a high copper level results in an impaired executive function.   Perhaps I missed it but I didn't see any links to research that support his claim.   Anyway, I will do a google search to see what I come up with.

 

By the way, normally, I am skeptical about claims like this but since most professionals have no clue about the role of the executive function part of the brain, when someone mentions it, it gets my attention.

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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  • 1 month later...

Hi All,

 

I've trying some things from the Magnesium advocacy group.

The quick summary is:

1. lots of magnesium

2. no calcium supplementation.

3. no vitamin D supplementation.

It seems to be helping depression and WD but too early to tell, I'll have to give it another 2 months.

 

But Copper supplements has been mentioned as well.

Did anyone here start taking copper supplements and notice a difference in depression (better or worse?)

 

Cheers

 

Damien

Off all SSRIs as at November 2016.

 

Been on SSRIs (mainly Lexapro) for around 15 years.

failed attempts to go cold turkey before I got proper info on it.

Over last 2 years I've slowly gone from 20 mg Lexapro to 2.5 mg Lexapro.

on 25th Jan 2015 I've now moved to home made liquid Lexapro.

Plan is to drop roughly 0.2 mg per month over the next 1-2 years.  

25th Jan 2015 2.5 mg Lexapro liquid.

24th Mar 2016 1.0 mg lexapro (crushed tablet mixed and refilled into capsules)

Planned to be at 0.0 mg lexapro by about October 2016. 

I also take 50-100 mg modafinil per day, no short term plans of stopping/tapering modafinil but will re-evaluate after I'm off lexapro. 

 

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I go to a clinic that works in a subset of integrative medicine, orthomolecular psychiatry. While copper can be too low, the more serious problem they see is elevated copper levels. I personally wouldn't touch it without testing. But that is just my opinion.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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I think your right meimeiquest.

without a hair/blood test it might do more harm than good.

I did read the Kale and seasame seeds have lots of copper,

So perhaps just a little bit more Green leafy vegetables is the trick.

Hard to go wrong with more fresh vegetable ;-)

Do you get clients doing hair sample mineral analysis to determine too much copper ? or other heavy metals ?

 

The magnesium group has lots of ideas, but it can be hard to figure out the good ones.

 

Thanks for your reply!

 

Cheers

 

Damien

Off all SSRIs as at November 2016.

 

Been on SSRIs (mainly Lexapro) for around 15 years.

failed attempts to go cold turkey before I got proper info on it.

Over last 2 years I've slowly gone from 20 mg Lexapro to 2.5 mg Lexapro.

on 25th Jan 2015 I've now moved to home made liquid Lexapro.

Plan is to drop roughly 0.2 mg per month over the next 1-2 years.  

25th Jan 2015 2.5 mg Lexapro liquid.

24th Mar 2016 1.0 mg lexapro (crushed tablet mixed and refilled into capsules)

Planned to be at 0.0 mg lexapro by about October 2016. 

I also take 50-100 mg modafinil per day, no short term plans of stopping/tapering modafinil but will re-evaluate after I'm off lexapro. 

 

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They test copper and zinc in blood and ceruplasmin, the protein that carries copper. I think they would like to do more, but are trying to keep it affordable. But yes to veggies and seeds! I think the body regulates much better with "real food."

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • Administrator

Please do not supplement copper unless you know you have a real deficiency. Supplementation needs to be accompanied by blood test monitoring to avoid dysregulation due to excessive copper.

 

Merged related topics.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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No worries altostrata.

I won't be taking copper.

I know you must grow tired of kookie ideas, but I do appreciate your advice and experience.

 

Cheers

 

Damien

Off all SSRIs as at November 2016.

 

Been on SSRIs (mainly Lexapro) for around 15 years.

failed attempts to go cold turkey before I got proper info on it.

Over last 2 years I've slowly gone from 20 mg Lexapro to 2.5 mg Lexapro.

on 25th Jan 2015 I've now moved to home made liquid Lexapro.

Plan is to drop roughly 0.2 mg per month over the next 1-2 years.  

25th Jan 2015 2.5 mg Lexapro liquid.

24th Mar 2016 1.0 mg lexapro (crushed tablet mixed and refilled into capsules)

Planned to be at 0.0 mg lexapro by about October 2016. 

I also take 50-100 mg modafinil per day, no short term plans of stopping/tapering modafinil but will re-evaluate after I'm off lexapro. 

 

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  • 2 months later...
  • Moderator

I am taking a lot of zinc.  My US (former) doctor said that, taking that much zinc I should be taking copper, as one depletes the other.

 

However, my current Oz doctor, who is treating me for "pyroluria" says never to take copper, that even when my blood levels of copper are low, the best way to adjust it is by adjusting zinc.  Decrease the zinc, and the copper will come up.

 

I have been taking tiny amounts of copper, 3x 3mg a month (each a week apart) based on an oral zinc test.  This test is a liquid and how it tastes tells you roughly how much zinc you have in your system.  If my zinc gets too high, I take 3 weeks, one capsule a week.  This has happened no more frequently than every six months.

 

This tells you how careful you must be with copper.  It seems harmless enough, and cheap enough (in the US) to take.  But copper toxicity is dangerous.  From http://www.holistic-back-relief.com/copper-toxicity.html

 

 

Copper Toxicity makes it impossible to truly and completely relax, so you can never truly rest and allow your Adrenals to heal and regenerate. They just keep being stimulated to death, or Adrenal Burnout.

 

 

 

Put into a sequence, it looks like this:

    1. Low blood sugar attack or some other Stressor
    2. Panic
    3. "Fight or Flight" reaction
    4. Zinc and Magnesium gets eliminated
    5. Copper and Sodium levels rise
    6. Adrenal glands produce more epinephrine and cortisol
    7. Adrenals become fatigued and are unable to signal the production of Ceruloplasmin and Metallothioneine in the Liver
    8. The lack of Zinc in the body from all the stress reactions, lack of dietary nutrition, and the suppressing effect of Copper on Zinc's ability to function, causes a decline in the production of all proteins in the body: Ceruloplasmin, Metallothioneine, Digestive enzymes, Neuro- transmitters, etc.
    9. Copper remains unbound in the blood and so gets stashed away in the Liver, Brain, joints, nerves, muscles and other soft tissues
    10. This Copper Toxicity continues to agitate the mind, nervous system and Adrenal glands, keeping the nervous system in a perpetual state of "fight or flight".
    11. The mind and body are unable to relax due to agitating effects of Copper toxicity, the lack of Zinc and Magnesium, an inability for Zinc to help create calming neurotransmitters in the brain, and the Adrenal fatigue which causes an inability to relax out of the sympathetic nervous system into the parasympathetic nervous system.
    12. This leads to insomnia, anxiety, over-emotional behavior, Bipolar syndrome, mania, PMS, Mental disorders such as Schizophrenia and Depression.

and

 

In Chinese medical theory, the period is regulated by the Liver which, when loaded with a toxic burden of excess Copper buildup, will become stagnant and be unable to perform its task of keeping everything flowing and circulating smoothly.

 

 

This results in such signs of Liver Qi stagnation as:

 

 

    • Headaches
    • Abdominal Pain
    • PMS
    • Moodiness
    • Angered easily
    • Muscle spasms and tension
    • Tight ligaments

 

So be careful with copper.  I do use it, but sparingly and rarely, and very very carefully with objective tests to ensure I don't get into trouble.

 

Further - I couldn't really tell you what difference it makes, I still struggle with too low zinc and too high copper some times - the pendulum swings, and it feels the same emotionally / mentally as too low copper / too high zinc.

 

If I were in withdrawal, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole!

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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I have been taking tiny amounts of copper, 3x 3mg a month (each a week apart) based on an oral zinc test.  This test is a liquid and how it tastes tells you roughly how much zinc you have in your system.

 

When you did the zinc taste test, did you taste anything?  Did taking copper or zinc for a while change the way the liquid tasted?

 

I did this test and it tasted just like water, so I supplemented with zinc for about a month and then did the test again, but it still tasted like water, no change at all.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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It's pretty subjective, isn't it Petu.  "and how did that taste for you?"  I got nothing, then an aftertaste of mineral/sweet/furry (level 2).  It was unpleasant enough that I'm not looking forward to the next one.  I determined not to change my zinc or copper from that test.  (I am on 150 mg of zinc, per day.  50 in afternoon, 100 at night).  LOL if I get my zinc up higher, it will taste worse!  Egads!  I'm not looking forward to the next one.

 

The bottle says to take the test every day - of course it would, they want you to use it up faster!  You were right to wait a month.

 

Your response sounds like a "Level 1" response, keep taking the zinc, maybe even increase it a bit, and try again in a month?

 

I don't know if the Yankees have access to this little "Zinc Test" thing that we can get.  Mine is made by "Ethical Nutrients."  

 

I like to think it's objective, but at least it's more objective than just saying, "i think I'll take more or less of this supplement"  I also get zinc and copper blood tests for my Ortho doc.  The taste test is just for in between times.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Thanks for the info.

 

I think I get a small amount of copper and zinc  in my multi vitamin.

I'm afraid of zinc tablets. I heard that they can have cadmium contamination.

 

Cheers

 

Damien

Off all SSRIs as at November 2016.

 

Been on SSRIs (mainly Lexapro) for around 15 years.

failed attempts to go cold turkey before I got proper info on it.

Over last 2 years I've slowly gone from 20 mg Lexapro to 2.5 mg Lexapro.

on 25th Jan 2015 I've now moved to home made liquid Lexapro.

Plan is to drop roughly 0.2 mg per month over the next 1-2 years.  

25th Jan 2015 2.5 mg Lexapro liquid.

24th Mar 2016 1.0 mg lexapro (crushed tablet mixed and refilled into capsules)

Planned to be at 0.0 mg lexapro by about October 2016. 

I also take 50-100 mg modafinil per day, no short term plans of stopping/tapering modafinil but will re-evaluate after I'm off lexapro. 

 

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  • 3 years later...

I had a question about copper dumping. After searching on the internet, I'm unable to find any good info.

 

Can stress cause the body to dump copper? Can weight loss? Change in diet? Large uptick in walking?

 

 

 


 

 

20+ years EffexorXR 150mg. and Lorazepam PRN <- I rarely took this and never developed a problem.
2017 (nov-dec?) -> Feb 2018 fast taper - flipped out in Feb. Reinstated with 75mg-150mg (?not sure) stabilized
2018 Feb Began year long taper - somehow made it to 50pellets, did fine
          Sept -  17 bbs <-- where I started keeping track
           Oct - 16 bbs, Nov - 15 bbs, Dec - 14 bbs
2019 Jan - 13bbs, Feb - 12bbs, Feb Had problems - found SA
           March 19 - 15bbs,  April 17 - 20bbs  <--Updosing

 

Supplements: Multivitamin,  Fish Oil, B Complex, Magnesium, GABA,  L-Theanine, Inositol

Low sugar/carb diet, plenty of exercise. Meditation
Blood test Results: High in Copper, Low in Zinc, Very high whole blood hystamines

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