Cheeky: on Paxil for 23 years needing advice

[WackoSirJacko]

10 hours ago, Cheeky said:

Hey 👽

 I thought I might update my journal living in the crazy life of withdrawal land.

Yesterday I had a good day, woke up with morning anxiety, but the rest the day was back to normal which was fantastic. Today I woke up with no anxiety and felt pretty much 8 out of 10 but very tired , but apart from that the day was good  .

 I really hope my following weeks are better than the last few weeks. 

I’m thinking I might try to go to bed earlier.,asI know if I get more sleep I feel better .

Anyways until tomorrow 

cioa

 

See, you always come through the other side. Everyone including me, doubts when the wave of a drop will subside, but it always does. Mine is subsiding after my drop to 35mg after 4 weeks too, so you are not alone in this at all. Grit your teeth and move forward, it's the only direction.

 

Always remember this!!!!!

[WackoSirJacko]

Good news too

 

i messaged Brass about I theory I have. He says it makes perfect sense.

 

”I’ve had a theory I want to pass by you.

 

if you’ve been on high levels like you and me, and most when it gets to finding this page. Do you think it’s harder at the beginning because our receptors are all wiped out and the brain can’t produce serotonin. So we drop but our brain is both struggling with the drop plus struggling with a pooped out drug that has depleted serotonin efficacy anyway.

But then as you get into the 20s and teens, you’ve uncovered enough receptors for your brain to have started actually making more serotonin etc. So the drops are more subtle.

Then obviously from 10 to 0 you’ve got the big fall off the cliff of receptors occupancy to deal with.

just seems I find many struggling with drops above 30 and below 10, but not much noise from the middle part of tapering”

 

so when we get past 30 it should get a bit easier till we get to 10.

[doxxigirl]

Hi Cheeky, My name is Doxxi.  I think you are doing great, good job. 

[Cheeky]

3 hours ago, WackoSirJacko said:

Good news too

 

i messaged Brass about I theory I have. He says it makes perfect sense.

 

”I’ve had a theory I want to pass by you.

 

if you’ve been on high levels like you and me, and most when it gets to finding this page. Do you think it’s harder at the beginning because our receptors are all wiped out and the brain can’t produce serotonin. So we drop but our brain is both struggling with the drop plus struggling with a pooped out drug that has depleted serotonin efficacy anyway.

But then as you get into the 20s and teens, you’ve uncovered enough receptors for your brain to have started actually making more serotonin etc. So the drops are more subtle.

Then obviously from 10 to 0 you’ve got the big fall off the cliff of receptors occupancy to deal with.

just seems I find many struggling with drops above 30 and below 10, but not much noise from the middle part of tapering”

 

so when we get past 30 it should get a bit easier till we get to 10.

Wow , I think that makes so much sense , please tell me what he thinks . 

 

[Cheeky]

2 hours ago, doxxigirl said:

Hi Cheeky, My name is Doxxi.  I think you are doing great, good job. 

Thankyou hun, I’m trying. 

I will read up on your thread soon, I would love to support you out in this journey.

[doxxigirl]

2 hours ago, Cheeky said:

if you’ve been on high levels like you and me, and most when it gets to finding this page. Do you think it’s harder at the beginning because our receptors are all wiped out and the brain can’t produce serotonin. So we drop but our brain is both struggling with the drop plus struggling with a pooped out drug that has depleted serotonin efficacy anyway.

I think this is a good theory, interesting.

[Songbird]

It's an interesting theory - there's definitely something going on at those high doses, because I've noticed a lot of people who have been on high doses for a long time struggling with those early drops.  It can't just be receptor occupancy, the high doses have to be causing some other kinds of changes that need to be reversed.

[brassmonkey]

I was telling Jacko that it made a lot of sense.  I've seen a lot of people really struggle at the beginning of a taper and again at the end and at certain points in between.  I think that the problems at the beginning are from the huge amount of chaos that the drugs produce by their presence and the long term effects of prolonged use.  For many people, especially those who have been on for many years, the changes, blunting and adaptations are so severe it takes several reductions for the body to realize that something positive is happening.  For people in poopout that is even more pronounced.

 

During the mid-range reductions things would be fairly smooth because the body understands what is expected of it with each reduction.  Also the SERT loading is on the members side at this time.  Very large changes in dose result in fairly small changes in the SERT loading, giving an easier transition between doses.  Things kick up again when the curve of the SERT loading changes from horizontal to vertical at about the 10-8 mgai range.  From here on down a vary small change in the dose can result in a very large change in the SERT loading and an increase of symptoms.

 

There also seem to be several trouble spots along the way.  They don't hit everyone, but affect a high enough percentage of members as to draw attention to themselves.  I have noticed that 20-18mgai shows up a lot.  The second bothersome place is at 10-8, which affects even more people.  The third trouble spot seems to be between 3.5 and 1.  It's variable as to just where it happens, but it hits a lot of people.  Once most people get below 1.5 things seem to go pretty smoothly until the end.  These are just my observations and we have to remember that every taper is different.

[Cheeky]

On 3/8/2018 at 4:01 AM, WackoSirJacko said:

See, you always come through the other side. Everyone including me, doubts when the wave of a drop will subside, but it always does. Mine is subsiding after my drop to 35mg after 4 weeks too, so you are not alone in this at all. Grit your teeth and move forward, it's the only direction.

 

Always remember this!!!!!

I know, but when your in it, its so god dam scary. 

This must sound strange but when I come out of a wave , it makes me appreciate  life so much more,  I think all of this happening to me has made me a more off a spiritual person who lives in the moment, wacky I know but a better person.

[Cheeky]

16 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

I was telling Jacko that it made a lot of sense.  I've seen a lot of people really struggle at the beginning of a taper and again at the end and at certain points in between.  I think that the problems at the beginning are from the huge amount of chaos that the drugs produce by their presence and the long term effects of prolonged use.  For many people, especially those who have been on for many years, the changes, blunting and adaptations are so severe it takes several reductions for the body to realize that something positive is happening.  For people in poopout that is even more pronounced.

 

During the mid-range reductions things would be fairly smooth because the body understands what is expected of it with each reduction.  Also the SERT loading is on the members side at this time.  Very large changes in dose result in fairly small changes in the SERT loading, giving an easier transition between doses.  Things kick up again when the curve of the SERT loading changes from horizontal to vertical at about the 10-8 mgai range.  From here on down a vary small change in the dose can result in a very large change in the SERT loading and an increase of symptoms.

 

There also seem to be several trouble spots along the way.  They don't hit everyone, but affect a high enough percentage of members as to draw attention to themselves.  I have noticed that 20-18mgai shows up a lot.  The second bothersome place is at 10-8, which affects even more people.  The third trouble spot seems to be between 3.5 and 1.  It's variable as to just where it happens, but it hits a lot of people.  Once most people get below 1.5 things seem to go pretty smoothly until the end.  These are just my observations and we have to remember that every taper is different.

This is great to know and gives me confidence to continue.

Thankyou Tom

[DaveB]

18 minutes ago, Cheeky said:

I know, but when your in it, its so god dam scary. 

This must sound strange but when I come out of a wave , it makes me appreciate  life so much more,  I think all of this happening to me has made me a more off a spiritual person who lives in the moment, wacky I know but a better person.

 

So, do you feel you are out of your latest wave? Unfortunately I still find myself very up and down. 

[Cheeky]

53 minutes ago, DaveB said:

 

So, do you feel you are out of your latest wave? Unfortunately I still find myself very up and down. 

I think I might be , but I never underestimate withdrawal , I could wake up tomorrow and feel bad. 

[WackoSirJacko]

12 hours ago, Cheeky said:

I know, but when your in it, its so god dam scary. 

This must sound strange but when I come out of a wave , it makes me appreciate  life so much more,  I think all of this happening to me has made me a more off a spiritual person who lives in the moment, wacky I know but a better person.

Not wacky, totally sane and just thoughts 100%

 

Just imagine that day when we are off this crap. How free are we going to feel? It's going to be like winning the lottery.

[DaveB]

On 3/8/2018 at 4:35 PM, Cheeky said:

I think I might be , but I never underestimate withdrawal , I could wake up tomorrow and feel bad. 

 

Still doing well Cheeky?

[Cheeky]

4 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

Still doing well Cheeky?

Hey Dave, 

yeah I’m doing well,  you never think that your going to be okay

once your in a wave , but it’s does go.

How are you going ?

[DaveB]

1 hour ago, Cheeky said:

Hey Dave, 

yeah I’m doing well,  you never think that your going to be okay

once your in a wave , but it’s does go.

How are you going ?

 

So glad you are doing well, means that I can get there too as our stories are similar. I am doing pretty good, anxiety crops up pretty strong a couple of times a day, but I can usually handle it without losing my mind. The fact the morning anxiety has gone away 6 out of the last 7 days seems to point towards stabilization, so I am very excited about that. 

[Cheeky]

1 hour ago, DaveB said:

 

So glad you are doing well, means that I can get there too as our stories are similar. I am doing pretty good, anxiety crops up pretty strong a couple of times a day, but I can usually handle it without losing my mind. The fact the morning anxiety has gone away 6 out of the last 7 days seems to point towards stabilization, so I am very excited about that. 

Dave it has taken me 6 weeks to feel normal again, so it was really disheartening for me. You will get there too and it looks like your getting better every week.

[Cheeky]

Okay just an update.

Well I was feeling good a couple of weeks ago and them I got my monthlies( Period) and feel anxious again, not as bad as a few weeks ago just irritable snappy impatient and very anxious.

I hope this is normal, I'm just worried when this happens and think I'm going to stay like this.I really don't know how I'm going to do this forever. I just thank god I have support in you guys.

[Rosetta]

Ugh!  Same thing happens to me.  A lot of women say that happens.  It's normal for WD and I hate it.  Something about progesterone, I think.  Worse than PMS.  You know you won't stay like this, but it's a thought we all have.  I want this to all be over yesterday!! Try to accept, float, distract . . . A big hug!  --R

[Cheeky]

32 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Ugh!  Same thing happens to me.  A lot of women say that happens.  It's normal for WD and I hate it.  Something about progesterone, I think.  Worse than PMS.  You know you won't stay like this, but it's a thought we all have.  I want this to all be over yesterday!! Try to accept, float, distract . . . A big hug!  --R

thankyou Rosetta, your word makes me feel validated

[DaveB]

18 hours ago, Cheeky said:

Okay just an update.

Well I was feeling good a couple of weeks ago and them I got my monthlies( Period) and feel anxious again, not as bad as a few weeks ago just irritable snappy impatient and very anxious.

I hope this is normal, I'm just worried when this happens and think I'm going to stay like this.I really don't know how I'm going to do this forever. I just thank god I have support in you guys.

 

From what I have seen this is VERY normal, you women really have it bad to say the least. I know the feeling, every-time the anxiety gets bad I am convinced it is here to stay forever. Take heart in the fact that you know you can and will stabilize because you have done it many times during this process. 

[Cheeky]

5 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

From what I have seen this is VERY normal, you women really have it bad to say the least. I know the feeling, every-time the anxiety gets bad I am convinced it is here to stay forever. Take heart in the fact that you know you can and will stabilize because you have done it many times during this process. 

I just hope so, how are you Dave ?

[Cheeky]

Okay so woke up today with a feeling of having sharp pain ,pressure in my head and that morning dread . I have dropped my kids off to school and I feel like I’m  very tired still but with a adrenaline rush for no reason. When I feel like this I’m consumed with how I feel and I can’t seem to think straight. It’s like a nervous energy but it comes and goes. 

[DaveB]

54 minutes ago, Cheeky said:

Okay so woke up today with a feeling of having sharp pain ,pressure in my head and that morning dread . I have dropped my kids off to school and I feel like I’m  very tired still but with a adrenaline rush for no reason. When I feel like this I’m consumed with how I feel and I can’t seem to think straight. It’s like a nervous energy but it comes and goes. 

 

Exactly how I feel and I just hate it. Tired, sometimes to the point of barely keeping my eyes open, but an adrenaline rush. I am sorry you are experiencing the adrenaline rush again after feeling so well. It makes this process so frustrating because you cannot trust the improvement. 

1 hour ago, Cheeky said:

I just hope so, how are you Dave ?

Depends on the day, hour, sometimes minute. Yesterday was a good day, I felt like I was coming out of it and had some lasting healing going on. Today has been more of a struggle again, I just hate it and honestly was hoping on MUCH more improvement this far into a hold. Is it ever going to happen for me, I mean this can't keep up forever can it?

[Cheeky]

1 hour ago, DaveB said:

 

Exactly how I feel and I just hate it. Tired, sometimes to the point of barely keeping my eyes open, but an adrenaline rush. I am sorry you are experiencing the adrenaline rush again after feeling so well. It makes this process so frustrating because you cannot trust the improvement. 

Depends on the day, hour, sometimes minute. Yesterday was a good day, I felt like I was coming out of it and had some lasting healing going on. Today has been more of a struggle again, I just hate it and honestly was hoping on MUCH more improvement this far into a hold. Is it ever going to happen for me, I mean this can't keep up forever can it?

It cant stay like this, our brain will eventually get stable.

I,m feeling good now after having a sh*tty morning, but I dont' count on it. Dave we have a long way to go but lets do this and keep on going . WE will be the survivors !

 

[DaveB]

49 minutes ago, Cheeky said:

It cant stay like this, our brain will eventually get stable.

I,m feeling good now after having a sh*tty morning, but I dont' count on it. Dave we have a long way to go but lets do this and keep on going . WE will be the survivors !

 

 

I just don’t see many people who stabilize later on if they already haven’t after an extended hold of a few months. Makes me doubtful that holding and doing nothing is going to help me at this point.

[Cheeky]

19 minutes ago, DaveB said:

 

I just don’t see many people who stabilize later on if they already haven’t after an extended hold of a few months. Makes me doubtful that holding and doing nothing is going to help me at this point.

Dave  how long have you held for ?

[DaveB]

1 hour ago, Cheeky said:

Dave  how long have you held for ?

About 2 and a half months now.

[GiantsWSC]

Dave, I suggest to keep holding and don't updose. Are you taking any supplements? During my taper I also took magnesium citrate, not sure if it helped but it didn't worsen things. Keep your current path, you WILL have windows of relief.

[Cheeky]

7 hours ago, DaveB said:

About 2 and a half months now.

Dave I’ve known people to take longer then a few months to stabilise,  you will it takes time especially after all that you’ve been through. I know when I messed around with changing antidepressants it took  me ages to feel better again. 

[DaveB]

10 hours ago, GiantsWSC said:

Dave, I suggest to keep holding and don't updose. Are you taking any supplements? During my taper I also took magnesium citrate, not sure if it helped but it didn't worsen things. Keep your current path, you WILL have windows of relief.

I know that is probably the solution, I am just frustrated and confused as to why it is taking so long to get stable. 

 

3 hours ago, Cheeky said:

Dave I’ve known people to take longer then a few months to stabilise,  you will it takes time especially after all that you’ve been through. I know when I messed around with changing antidepressants it took  me ages to feel better again. 

Good to hear that (not that it took you ages) sorry to have kind of dumped on your thread. I really wish I would have stayed with ZOLOFT when I tried to reinstate in February 2017, I think I would have been long stable by now, but I just kept on switching like the doctor told me to. 1st to Lexapro, then to Lyrica, then to Paxil, now I think it is certainly harder trying to stabilize on a different drug than the one I took for 8 years, but I have been on Paxil at high doses now for too long to switch back to Zoloft, I think. Anyway, how are you doing? Making it through your latest wave? You are so strong and make me feel like I have an ally who "gets it" in all of this, so thank you for being here and being you!

[SkyBlue]

On 3/8/2018 at 4:21 PM, Cheeky said:

This must sound strange but when I come out of a wave , it makes me appreciate  life so much more,  I think all of this happening to me has made me a more off a spiritual person who lives in the moment

 

Hi Cheeky,

Oh, I think that makes SO much sense and not strange at all. Now I appreciate even an "okay" or "neutral" day so much, and the good days are so wonderful Hang in there!. <3 

[Cheeky]

5 hours ago, DaveB said:

I know that is probably the solution, I am just frustrated and confused as to why it is taking so long to get stable. 

 

Good to hear that (not that it took you ages) sorry to have kind of dumped on your thread. I really wish I would have stayed with ZOLOFT when I tried to reinstate in February 2017, I think I would have been long stable by now, but I just kept on switching like the doctor told me to. 1st to Lexapro, then to Lyrica, then to Paxil, now I think it is certainly harder trying to stabilize on a different drug than the one I took for 8 years, but I have been on Paxil at high doses now for too long to switch back to Zoloft, I think. Anyway, how are you doing? Making it through your latest wave? You are so strong and make me feel like I have an ally who "gets it" in all of this, so thank you for being here and being you!

Dave I’m not strong at all and I just wish I could wake up and none of this is real.

i really believe that it is going to take time for you to stabilise because of all the dramatic changes you’ve had.  I think in your case it not like  you did a drop and waiting to stabilise,  your brain has gotten used to the same drug for that long and then was thrown different drugs that has caused havoc in your brain and that’s why it’s taking longer for you to get stability .

[DaveB]

1 minute ago, Cheeky said:

Dave I’m not strong at all and I just wish I could wake up and none of this is real.

i really believe that it is going to take time for you to stabilise because of all the dramatic changes you’ve had.  I think in your case it not like  you did a drop and waiting to stabilise,  your brain has gotten used to the same drug for that long and then was thrown different drugs that has caused havoc in your brain and that’s why it’s taking longer for you to get stability .

 

I agree, but it doesn't make the waiting any easier, haha!

[Cheeky]

25 minutes ago, DaveB said:

 

I agree, but it doesn't make the waiting any easier, haha!

I know, this is really" bullsh*t", every morning I wake up waiting to see how I feel and then during the day thinking will I ever lead a normal life . No one should ever have to feel like this, If I was told by the doctor that these drugs cause problems I would never off taken it. 

Dave I've got your back lol

[Cheeky]

5 hours ago, SkyBlue said:

 

Hi Cheeky,

Oh, I think that makes SO much sense and not strange at all. Now I appreciate even an "okay" or "neutral" day so much, and the good days are so wonderful Hang in there!. <3 

Skyblue your doing great in your tapper, I've been following your thread.