Tilly

January 11, 2015

Hello All,

This is my first post here. Firstly, thank you so much for the existence of this forum and support available which is severely lacking in mainstream health care services.

I am currently trying to taper from Escitalopram / Lexapro as I feel that SSRI medications do not help me and cause additional problems to my existing anxiety, panic attacks and agoraphobia.

In October 2014, I reduced my medication from 10mg to 5mg of Escitalopram / Lexapro as a result of not being able to get to my GP as a result of the severity of my agoraphobia and not being able to get a GP to do a home visit. I had limited medication remaining so figured the best course of action was to take some rather than be left with none.

I have continued at 5mg since and my GP advises the usual method of tapering, which I consider to be far too rapid.

I have requested liquid Escitalopram / Lexapro, which my GP advises is not necessary. I disagree as I have experienced prolonged withdrawal in the past (see my signature for details)

I am willing to make my own liquid as per instructions here.

My main concerns are, that since I reduced from 10mg - 5mg (50% decrease out of necessity not choice) I have been suffering from many side effects including severe fatigue, dizziness, mild depersonalisation and derealisation, lack of motivation, nightmares, insomnia, hypersomnia, anxiety, agitation, irritation, quick temper, feelings of hopelessness, skin rash, now subsided which I believed to be Keratosis Pilaris, confused thinking and speech and overall difficulty in functioning.

I am usually a vibrant and positive person with lots of energy and creative thinking. I am finding it really distressing to wake up every day feeling the way that I do and wanted advice on whether my experience is normal and how to manage / overcome my symptoms naturally. I want me back and I am prepared to struggle and experience hardship on the road to get there as long as my struggles are in the right direction towards recovery.

I would also be grateful for advice on whether to continue on 5mg or whether I have jeopardized my withdrawal by tapering by 50% initially? Should I reinstate my original dose of 10mg and taper by 10% to give me the best chance of successful withdrawal or continue as I am on 5mg?

I appreciate that everyone here has their own struggles to battle, so all replies and advice / tips would be very gratefully received and welcomed.

Thank you so much in advance.

Wishing everyone here good health and success in their efforts.

Tilly x

January 11, 2015

Hi Tilly

Welcome to SA. Sorry you aren't feeling great at the moment.

In terms of updosing to relieve symptoms, it does often help but sometimes people's systems have been sensitised by withdrawal and they react badly to the increase. The question of whether you should up dose depends on whether you are seeing any improvement in symptoms. If you are I would wait at 5 for a bit more, if not, or your symptoms are getting worse/intolerable then consider the updose.

Given the sensitisation issue I wouldn't recommend reinstating the original dose I would go a bit lower than that, say 7 mg. You then see what happens over a week or so. Record your symptoms and rate there severity to see how they change in response to the up dose.

Dalsaan

January 11, 2015

Hi Tilly

Welcome to SA. Sorry you aren't feeling great at the moment.

In terms of updosing to relieve symptoms, it does often help but sometimes people's systems have been sensitised by withdrawal and they react badly to the increase. The question of whether you should up dose depends on whether you are seeing any improvement in symptoms. If you are I would wait at 5 for a bit more, if not, or your symptoms are getting worse/intolerable then consider the updose.

Given the sensitisation issue I wouldn't recommend reinstating the original dose I would go a bit lower than that, say 7 mg. You then see what happens over a week or so. Record your symptoms and rate there severity to see how they change in response to the up dose.

Dalsaan

Hi Dalsaan,

Thank you so much for your reply. It means a lot to have support.

Your advice is wise, I appreciate it. Again, thank you so much.

I have a pretty high tolerance to pain and riding out side effects if the end result is positive and my methods are constructive & informed. But after almost 3 months on 5mg, my symptoms are not abating. If anything, they are increasing and significantly reducing my level of functioning and quality of life. I think that an increase to 7mg and reduction at 10% would be very much worth trying.

Given my sensitisation, what rate do you advise to taper? Do you make incremental reductions when side effects abate or would you advise that I take it slower given my sensitisation.

I appreciate that you are not medically trained to advise me, but your input would be invaluable in assisting my decision making.

Warmest wishes to you,

Tilly x

January 11, 2015

I would recommend waiting till you are stable before tapering at all. Then you could try a 5 percent drop and see how you go. If your body is ok with that you might be able to make 10 percent cuts or continue at 5 percent but more often

The key is to listen to your body, let it dictate what you do and be conservative first until you have heard your body's reaction. I have had to change my tapering strategy at different times. You may have to as well

January 11, 2015

Another option for you is to taper using a jeweller's scale, you can buy these fairly cheaply online.

January 11, 2015

If you have been on 5 mg for almost 3 months, if i were you I would try to ride it out.

Definitely wouldn't taper for quite some time. Not only until you get better after but staying better for some time.

If things continue to get worse and there is just constant increase in intensity of symptoms and you opt forup dosing I wouldn't updose to more than 6 or 7 mg. 3 months is quite a long time although 50% is also a big cut...My initial cut on Escitalopram before I came here was also 50% but we are all different and quite miraculously I didn't feel that one much.

I'm not tapering Escitalopram yet but after initial disbelief I found liquid tapering of my other evil very simple and precise.

In any case, you came to the right place

Bubble

January 11, 2015

Just another experience here - I've updosed many times over the years, always with an immediate positive result. Even after many months off. I realise I've been lucky, but just wanted to add my experience on the side of possible updosing. The last time I updosed - now realising the danger, I did it as a very very tiny updose the first day, waited to see if any reaction, and increased tiny weeny bits each day after that until I got back to the place I was last stable.

January 12, 2015

Thank you so much for your input Dalsaan, Songbird, Bubble & Ever, I really appreciate it. I think that you have all provided sound advice.

I spent hours reading through posts on here last night and processing information.

Songbird, I have bought scales as accurate measurement of whatever dose I take is really important. Thank you for recommending this.

Dalsaan, I think that decreasing by 5% increments once stable is a good idea as milligram for milligram, Escitalopram is much stronger than other SSRIs. Thank you for suggesting this option.

I'm still deciding what is best for me in terms of updosing slightly or riding out the side effects at my current dose of 5mg. I am usually decisive, but want to make the best choice to improve my success. I'm still not certain what that is yet. Thank you for contributing your points of view & experiences of this Bubble & Ever, I really appreciate it.

I welcome any further input / experiences that anyone here has to contribute to me making a decision on my dosage.

Best wishes to all.

Tilly

January 12, 2015

Tilly, I emphasize with you. This is not an easy decision. I have no answer for you. My experience at present is similar, I think...i am considering updosing, but somehow cannot drcide what to do...

I am also on escitalopram. I tappered too quickly from 5 to 2.5mg, instead of stabilising on 5mg, when I felt much better than at present.

I have found it so important that I can talk here and getting others suggestions. Being in times overwhelmed with symptoms and panic, I am finding it difficult to think clear and take decisions...

January 12, 2015

Tilly, I emphasize with you. This is not an easy decision. I have no answer for you. My experience at present is similar, I think...i am considering updosing, but somehow cannot drcide what to do...

I am also on escitalopram. I tappered too quickly from 5 to 2.5mg, instead of stabilising on 5mg, when I felt much better than at present.

I have found it so important that I can talk here and getting others suggestions. Being in times overwhelmed with symptoms and panic, I am finding it difficult to think clear and take decisions...

Hi Ikam,

Thank you for your reply. I'm so sorry to hear that you are struggling too (((hugs)))

I totally agree that it is really helpful to have such a wonderful community here to share support & advice.

Decision making can be so tough when you are trying to manage withdrawal symptoms, I agree. I have spent hours on here reading in the last day. I have decided to ride out my current symptoms and taper initially at 5% once I have stabilized for a month.

I am doing a lot of reading on here and will be printing out a lot of information to argue my case with my GP to prescribe liquid Escitalopram to at least make the process of dosing correctly easier and reduce one of the burdens of tapering.

I have resolved to be kind to myself, not rush the process and inform myself with as much knowledge to help me to understand my journey and reduce as much discomfort as possible.

I hope that you are able to make the best decision for you soon.

Take care & be kind to yourself.

Tilly x

January 13, 2015

Tilly,

I'm liking the way you are approaching this. Might I throw another 2 pence worth in :mellow: (although after the exchange rate its almost worthless)

In your engagements with Drs, arm yourself with some knowledge about the difference between depressive symptoms as a withdrawal reaction and 'relapse'. Many Drs confuse this and so use the development of depressive symptoms in withdrawal as a return of depression and thus 'evidence' that you need to be on medication. This confusion has been the cause of a lot of people going back on meds or being polydrugged.

The other thing I want to throw in is your multivitamin. Many people with sensitised nervous systems find particular vitamins very stimulating. It may be contributing to your anxiety. B vitamins are often a culprit. We have some discussion of this here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4220-multivitamin-tips/

Just food for thought

Dalsaan

January 13, 2015

Tilly,

I'm liking the way you are approaching this. Might I throw another 2 pence worth in (although after the exchange rate its almost worthless)

In your engagements with Drs, arm yourself with some knowledge about the difference between depressive symptoms as a withdrawal reaction and 'relapse'. Many Drs confuse this and so use the development of depressive symptoms in withdrawal as a return of depression and thus 'evidence' that you need to be on medication. This confusion has been the cause of a lot of people going back on meds or being polydrugged.

The other thing I want to throw in is your multivitamin. Many people with sensitised nervous systems find particular vitamins very stimulating. It may be contributing to your anxiety. B vitamins are often a culprit. We have some discussion of this here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4220-multivitamin-tips/

Just food for thought

Dalsaan

Hi Dalsaan,

So lovely to hear from you again Your two cents worth is always welcome!

I am in the process of gathering information from credible sources including David Healy & Joseph Glenmullen to highlight the issue / symptoms of withdrawal as opposed to 'relapse'. I will also print out the information on this site about the strength milligram for milligram of Escitalopram in comparison with other SSRIs, as my GP does not seem to be aware of this.

She advised me that 5mg of Escitalopram was 'nothing' and that my body would not notice tapering off 5mg by taking it every other day for a few weeks, then stopping. I beg to differ.

The incomplete disclosure of side & withdrawal effects by pharmaceutical companies denies us the opportunity to make an informed choice or received the correct support which is a hideous abuse of power in the interest of profit. GP's are not trained adequately in mental health issues / meds to competently advise on let alone prescribe psychoactive medication. So many people's lives are impacted negatively as a consequence, which both angers and saddens me in equal measure. But that is another discussion....

I hear what you are saying about supplements. I am rethinking my supplementation currently and keeping to a minimum. I'm excluding B vitamins as I have had a severe reaction in the past to a moderate dose of Niacin (excessive prolonged flushing) that was distressing. I never connected this to sensitization before you raised it, so thank you!

I'm learning so much here, in the few days that I have been here. I am developing the skills to take responsibility for the effective and safer withdrawal from SSRI medication. I also have much better insight into the whole host of symptoms that I have experienced whilst taking SSRIs that effected my personality, behaviour, level of functioning and general dis - ease over a period of 14 years. I believe that this is just as big a part of my recovery as getting off toxic drugs.

I will read the thread you have highlighted and look forward to more words of wisdom from you again soon

Thank you so much again!

Take care

Tilly x

January 13, 2015

You write extremely eloquently, are you perhaps a professional writer of some kind? What you say about GPs is true, but unfortunately psychiatrists tend to be even worse. All of them duped (or bought) by Pharma. It is hard to say whether an updose would be effective for you, given your long med history, but if you have had no significant improvement in 3 months, it may be worth trying a small updose to see if it helps.

January 13, 2015

You write extremely eloquently, are you perhaps a professional writer of some kind? What you say about GPs is true, but unfortunately psychiatrists tend to be even worse. All of them duped (or bought) by Pharma. It is hard to say whether an updose would be effective for you, given your long med history, but if you have had no significant improvement in 3 months, it may be worth trying a small updose to see if it helps.

Bless your heart, Songbird!

I feel that my speech and cognition is currently very impaired due to the withdrawal process, so your kind words have made my day. Thank you so much.

I am not a professional writer, but I am very flattered at this suggestion. I do love language, words and literature.

I agree with you about psychiatrists too. So often now, medical professionals become agents of the pharmaceutical companies as a consequence of financial gain or lack of knowledge. It is a very sad and dangerous state of affairs.

After consideration of information I've gleaned here in relation to my personal history, I believe that increasing my dose would most likely be counterproductive and extend my withdrawal further. I plan to stay on 5mg and taper when I am more stable.

I felt much better yesterday. I'm still struggling with concentration, co ordination, finding the right words and my level of functioning is still much reduced. But instead of worrying, I laughed about my clumsiness with my partner and I am not stressing about my erratic sleep, as long as I get rest at some point in the day, that is fine for now. I am going to treat myself with more care and re adjust my daily tasks to what is manageable. This takes the pressure off to an extent.

I also feel empowered now to have some sense of control over my withdrawal, that I can take at my own pace and a community of support here that understands.

I hope that your day is kind to you, Songbird.

Tillyx

January 13, 2015

You have a great attitude and are doing all the right things. I hope you stabilise soon. Feeling better yesterday is a good sign.

January 13, 2015

You have a great attitude and are doing all the right things. I hope you stabilise soon. Feeling better yesterday is a good sign.

Thank you so much, Songbird. I wish you the best in your recovery too.

January 13, 2015

Tilly, I emphasize with you. This is not an easy decision. I have no answer for you. My experience at present is similar, I think...i am considering updosing, but somehow cannot drcide what to do...

I am also on escitalopram. I tappered too quickly from 5 to 2.5mg, instead of stabilising on 5mg, when I felt much better than at present.

I have found it so important that I can talk here and getting others suggestions. Being in times overwhelmed with symptoms and panic, I am finding it difficult to think clear and take decisions...

Hi Ikam,

Thank you for your reply. I'm so sorry to hear that you are struggling too (((hugs)))

I totally agree that it is really helpful to have such a wonderful community here to share support & advice.

Decision making can be so tough when you are trying to manage withdrawal symptoms, I agree. I have spent hours on here reading in the last day. I have decided to ride out my current symptoms and taper initially at 5% once I have stabilized for a month.

I am doing a lot of reading on here and will be printing out a lot of information to argue my case with my GP to prescribe liquid Escitalopram to at least make the process of dosing correctly easier and reduce one of the burdens of tapering.

I have resolved to be kind to myself, not rush the process and inform myself with as much knowledge to help me to understand my journey and reduce as much discomfort as possible.

I hope that you are able to make the best decision for you soon.

Take care & be kind to yourself.

Tilly x

Hi Tilly,

I see you have taken the decision and you are preparing to talk to your gp. I agree, they don't have enough training in mental health and medication. But I was prescribed escitalopram by a peychiatrist! I trusted her when she was telling me that it was ok to take doxepin at the same time...

As they don't have enough training, it is easier for big pharma to manipulate them...

It is really sad as a lot of children are prescribed antidepressants...

After being supported yesterday by our wondeful moderators, I feel much more clear today, hence calmer. So almost no paresthesia...

I have decided to stay longer on 2.5mg to stabilise and then decide...

Best wishes and good luck with your gp.

Ikam

January 14, 2015

Tilly, I emphasize with you. This is not an easy decision. I have no answer for you. My experience at present is similar, I think...i am considering updosing, but somehow cannot drcide what to do...

I am also on escitalopram. I tappered too quickly from 5 to 2.5mg, instead of stabilising on 5mg, when I felt much better than at present.

I have found it so important that I can talk here and getting others suggestions. Being in times overwhelmed with symptoms and panic, I am finding it difficult to think clear and take decisions...

Hi Ikam,

Thank you for your reply. I'm so sorry to hear that you are struggling too (((hugs)))

I totally agree that it is really helpful to have such a wonderful community here to share support & advice.

Decision making can be so tough when you are trying to manage withdrawal symptoms, I agree. I have spent hours on here reading in the last day. I have decided to ride out my current symptoms and taper initially at 5% once I have stabilized for a month.

I am doing a lot of reading on here and will be printing out a lot of information to argue my case with my GP to prescribe liquid Escitalopram to at least make the process of dosing correctly easier and reduce one of the burdens of tapering.

I have resolved to be kind to myself, not rush the process and inform myself with as much knowledge to help me to understand my journey and reduce as much discomfort as possible.

I hope that you are able to make the best decision for you soon.

Take care & be kind to yourself.

Tilly x

Hi Tilly,

I see you have taken the decision and you are preparing to talk to your gp. I agree, they don't have enough training in mental health and medication. But I was prescribed escitalopram by a peychiatrist! I trusted her when she was telling me that it was ok to take doxepin at the same time...

As they don't have enough training, it is easier for big pharma to manipulate them...

It is really sad as a lot of children are prescribed antidepressants...

After being supported yesterday by our wondeful moderators, I feel much more clear today, hence calmer. So almost no paresthesia...

I have decided to stay longer on 2.5mg to stabilise and then decide...

Best wishes and good luck with your gp.

Ikam

Hi Ikam,

Yes, I am currently compiling information to present to my GP. I could usually do this in an evening, but in my current state, It will take a few weeks. I want to be provided with liquid escitalopam as a essential treatment to facilitate safe withdrawal. I also want her to record my symptoms of SSRI withdrawal in writing and have them recorded on my medical records. I feel that this is important as there is no accountability or feedback mechanism currently other than the Rxisk website for self report of withdrawal effects. I hope that the small steps that I am taking to assert myself will not only validate my experiences, but improve the way forward for future sufferers and hopefully inform good practice.

I totally agree, Ikam. The wealth of knowledge and support that I have found here is invaluable to validation of experiences and self recovery.

I hope that this message finds you well. I wish you every success in your recovery.

January 14, 2015

You have a great attitude and are doing all the right things. I hope you stabilise soon. Feeling better yesterday is a good sign.

Hello Tilly,

I pretty much wanted to say the same as Songbird so took the liberty to quote her.

I would just like to add that you shouldn't be surprised if your GP doesn't respond well. We are in a strange age where patients have access to all the information which is not easy for doctors' egos....So I guess we should understand them in a way: imagine studying for all those years and then a patient walks in with a stuff printed out from the internet... But still it's possible: I almost fell of my chair when my GP responded to my plan and insights with great interest and she is actually impressed with how I'm doing.

I look forward to hearing about how it goes. But it's important to be aware that the responsibility for our health and well being is ours and therefore we have the right to ask for what we think is the best for us and simply seek for a medical practitioner who will accept our authority in matters related to our health and well being.

January 14, 2015

Tilly, I emphasize with you. This is not an easy decision. I have no answer for you. My experience at present is similar, I think...i am considering updosing, but somehow cannot drcide what to do...

I am also on escitalopram. I tappered too quickly from 5 to 2.5mg, instead of stabilising on 5mg, when I felt much better than at present.

I have found it so important that I can talk here and getting others suggestions. Being in times overwhelmed with symptoms and panic, I am finding it difficult to think clear and take decisions...

Hi Ikam,

Thank you for your reply. I'm so sorry to hear that you are struggling too (((hugs)))

I totally agree that it is really helpful to have such a wonderful community here to share support & advice.

Decision making can be so tough when you are trying to manage withdrawal symptoms, I agree. I have spent hours on here reading in the last day. I have decided to ride out my current symptoms and taper initially at 5% once I have stabilized for a month.

I am doing a lot of reading on here and will be printing out a lot of information to argue my case with my GP to prescribe liquid Escitalopram to at least make the process of dosing correctly easier and reduce one of the burdens of tapering.

I have resolved to be kind to myself, not rush the process and inform myself with as much knowledge to help me to understand my journey and reduce as much discomfort as possible.

I hope that you are able to make the best decision for you soon.

Take care & be kind to yourself.

Tilly x

Hi Tilly,

I see you have taken the decision and you are preparing to talk to your gp. I agree, they don't have enough training in mental health and medication. But I was prescribed escitalopram by a peychiatrist! I trusted her when she was telling me that it was ok to take doxepin at the same time...

As they don't have enough training, it is easier for big pharma to manipulate them...

It is really sad as a lot of children are prescribed antidepressants...

After being supported yesterday by our wondeful moderators, I feel much more clear today, hence calmer. So almost no paresthesia...

I have decided to stay longer on 2.5mg to stabilise and then decide...

Best wishes and good luck with your gp.

Ikam

Hi Ikam,

Yes, I am currently compiling information to present to my GP. I could usually do this in an evening, but in my current state, It will take a few weeks. I want to be provided with liquid escitalopam as a essential treatment to facilitate safe withdrawal. I also want her to record my symptoms of SSRI withdrawal in writing and have them recorded on my medical records. I feel that this is important as there is no accountability or feedback mechanism currently other than the Rxisk website for self report of withdrawal effects. I hope that the small steps that I am taking to assert myself will not only validate my experiences, but improve the way forward for future sufferers and hopefully inform good practice.

I totally agree, Ikam. The wealth of knowledge and support that I have found here is invaluable to validation of experiences and self recovery.

I hope that this message finds you well. I wish you every success in your recovery.

Thank you Tilly. I have been much better today. Less anxious over symptoms, more able to observe them...

I have noticed that when I am more emotional or doing something that requires energy, my symptoms (with me it is paresthesia in both hand) are more prominent. Also, I get esily tired and if I still need to concentrate I feel some tension in my head and I clench my jaw...

But I have stopped panicking, thanks to support I received here...

I managed to get through a job interview today and got a job:)

It seems that you are preparing yourself well, but as somebody already said, be mindful that it may be a challenge for your doctor.

The way I see in the uk, they have very little training. Moreover, even psychiatrists have very limited views, which are manipulated by pharmaceutical companies...

I remember how my gp responded when I had assessments done elsewhere/i had a severe infection. My gp prescribed something else and my treatment took much longer...She also asked for nhs based assessments completely discarding what I had...

They have very clear guidance to follow, therefore thay cannot really take decisions that relate to the patients needs...

I already reported my symptoms at Rxisk. I think there is also something like yellow card...

Anyway, I hope you will get the prescription for liquid lexapro...

I will need to ask my gp for it as well, but later...

Good luck!

January 15, 2015

You have a great attitude and are doing all the right things. I hope you stabilise soon. Feeling better yesterday is a good sign.

Hello Tilly,

I pretty much wanted to say the same as Songbird so took the liberty to quote her.

I would just like to add that you shouldn't be surprised if your GP doesn't respond well. We are in a strange age where patients have access to all the information which is not easy for doctors' egos....So I guess we should understand them in a way: imagine studying for all those years and then a patient walks in with a stuff printed out from the internet... But still it's possible: I almost fell of my chair when my GP responded to my plan and insights with great interest and she is actually impressed with how I'm doing.

I look forward to hearing about how it goes. But it's important to be aware that the responsibility for our health and well being is ours and therefore we have the right to ask for what we think is the best for us and simply seek for a medical practitioner who will accept our authority in matters related to our health and well being.

Hi Bubble,

Thank you for your kind words.

After a lot of reading & thinking I have decided that taking on my GP right now is not in my best interests. My recovery is about me. I don't need the validation of the medical profession who got me to this point in the first place. I can take these issues up at a later date when I am feeling better. My recovery is priority right now.

I have scales for now and can buy syringes etc as needed. I have all of the information that I need here, through my own personal experience & self education and can listen to my own body to pace myself, so all will be well in the end result, even if the journey has its bumps!

I hope that your day has been kind to you, Bubble.

January 15, 2015

I think you are doing the right thing Tilly - not tackling the doctor right now. No point - very few of them will accept that wd is a fact. So even when you are better - don't expect him to get it.

January 15, 2015

You have a great attitude and are doing all the right things. I hope you stabilise soon. Feeling better yesterday is a good sign.

Hello Tilly,

I pretty much wanted to say the same as Songbird so took the liberty to quote her.

I would just like to add that you shouldn't be surprised if your GP doesn't respond well. We are in a strange age where patients have access to all the information which is not easy for doctors' egos....So I guess we should understand them in a way: imagine studying for all those years and then a patient walks in with a stuff printed out from the internet... But still it's possible: I almost fell of my chair when my GP responded to my plan and insights with great interest and she is actually impressed with how I'm doing.

I look forward to hearing about how it goes. But it's important to be aware that the responsibility for our health and well being is ours and therefore we have the right to ask for what we think is the best for us and simply seek for a medical practitioner who will accept our authority in matters related to our health and well being.

Hi Bubble,

Thank you for your kind words.

After a lot of reading & thinking I have decided that taking on my GP right now is not in my best interests. My recovery is about me. I don't need the validation of the medical profession who got me to this point in the first place. I can take these issues up at a later date when I am feeling better. My recovery is priority right now.

I have scales for now and can buy syringes etc as needed. I have all of the information that I need here, through my own personal experience & self education and can listen to my own body to pace myself, so all will be well in the end result, even if the journey has its bumps!

I hope that your day has been kind to you, Bubble.

Great! Yes, your healing is the most important at present...

January 15, 2015

I have scales for now and can buy syringes etc as needed. I have all of the information that I need here, through my own personal experience & self education and can listen to my own body to pace myself, so all will be well in the end result, even if the journey has its bumps!

You are a very fast learner Tilly! I'm impressed

hugs

January 15, 2015

Tilly, I emphasize with you. This is not an easy decision. I have no answer for you. My experience at present is similar, I think...i am considering updosing, but somehow cannot drcide what to do...

I am also on escitalopram. I tappered too quickly from 5 to 2.5mg, instead of stabilising on 5mg, when I felt much better than at present.

I have found it so important that I can talk here and getting others suggestions. Being in times overwhelmed with symptoms and panic, I am finding it difficult to think clear and take decisions...

Hi Ikam,

Thank you for your reply. I'm so sorry to hear that you are struggling too (((hugs)))

I totally agree that it is really helpful to have such a wonderful community here to share support & advice.

Decision making can be so tough when you are trying to manage withdrawal symptoms, I agree. I have spent hours on here reading in the last day. I have decided to ride out my current symptoms and taper initially at 5% once I have stabilized for a month.

I am doing a lot of reading on here and will be printing out a lot of information to argue my case with my GP to prescribe liquid Escitalopram to at least make the process of dosing correctly easier and reduce one of the burdens of tapering.

I have resolved to be kind to myself, not rush the process and inform myself with as much knowledge to help me to understand my journey and reduce as much discomfort as possible.

I hope that you are able to make the best decision for you soon.

Take care & be kind to yourself.

Tilly x

Hi Tilly,

I see you have taken the decision and you are preparing to talk to your gp. I agree, they don't have enough training in mental health and medication. But I was prescribed escitalopram by a peychiatrist! I trusted her when she was telling me that it was ok to take doxepin at the same time...

As they don't have enough training, it is easier for big pharma to manipulate them...

It is really sad as a lot of children are prescribed antidepressants...

After being supported yesterday by our wondeful moderators, I feel much more clear today, hence calmer. So almost no paresthesia...

I have decided to stay longer on 2.5mg to stabilise and then decide...

Best wishes and good luck with your gp.

Ikam

Hi Ikam,

Yes, I am currently compiling information to present to my GP. I could usually do this in an evening, but in my current state, It will take a few weeks. I want to be provided with liquid escitalopam as a essential treatment to facilitate safe withdrawal. I also want her to record my symptoms of SSRI withdrawal in writing and have them recorded on my medical records. I feel that this is important as there is no accountability or feedback mechanism currently other than the Rxisk website for self report of withdrawal effects. I hope that the small steps that I am taking to assert myself will not only validate my experiences, but improve the way forward for future sufferers and hopefully inform good practice.

I totally agree, Ikam. The wealth of knowledge and support that I have found here is invaluable to validation of experiences and self recovery.

I hope that this message finds you well. I wish you every success in your recovery.

Thank you Tilly. I have been much better today. Less anxious over symptoms, more able to observe them...

I have noticed that when I am more emotional or doing something that requires energy, my symptoms (with me it is paresthesia in both hand) are more prominent. Also, I get esily tired and if I still need to concentrate I feel some tension in my head and I clench my jaw...

But I have stopped panicking, thanks to support I received here...

I managed to get through a job interview today and got a job:)

It seems that you are preparing yourself well, but as somebody already said, be mindful that it may be a challenge for your doctor.

The way I see in the uk, they have very little training. Moreover, even psychiatrists have very limited views, which are manipulated by pharmaceutical companies...

I remember how my gp responded when I had assessments done elsewhere/i had a severe infection. My gp prescribed something else and my treatment took much longer...She also asked for nhs based assessments completely discarding what I had...

They have very clear guidance to follow, therefore thay cannot really take decisions that relate to the patients needs...

I already reported my symptoms at Rxisk. I think there is also something like yellow card...

Anyway, I hope you will get the prescription for liquid lexapro...

I will need to ask my gp for it as well, but later...

Good luck!

Hi Ikam,

Huge congratulations on getting the job! Interviewing while you are going through so much must have taken a lot of courage on your part. See how much you are capable of? You are much stronger than you give yourself credit for.

I am sharing some of your withdrawal effects, but like you, try to observe rather than obsess over them, knowing that eventually, they will pass.

At the time when I was working with GPs, not so long ago, they received less than 1 weeks training in mental health and are guided on their decisions hugely by the DSM which is based on as much fact and clinical evidence as any fairytale we may have heard as a child. A huge part of my role was advocating for people in mental distress to secure the best care for them which involved challenging GP's & psychiatrists when appropriate. I feel that I should be able to be my own advocate at this point. But I am aware of the probable outcome before I even start. This is not the right time. My energy needs to go into me.

I hope that you stabilise soon. Be kind to yourself, Ikam.

January 15, 2015

I think you are doing the right thing Tilly - not tackling the doctor right now. No point - very few of them will accept that wd is a fact. So even when you are better - don't expect him to get it.

Aint that the truth!

January 15, 2015

I have scales for now and can buy syringes etc as needed. I have all of the information that I need here, through my own personal experience & self education and can listen to my own body to pace myself, so all will be well in the end result, even if the journey has its bumps!

You are a very fast learner Tilly! I'm impressed

hugs

Hugs right back to you, Bubble.

January 15, 2015

Hi All

A little update on how things are going. I still feel that my cognitive processes are slower. I get my cats names confused often, my co - ordination is a bit befuddled at times and even walking across the room looks like something out of a Monty Python sketch because I have uneven gait on occasions! I also have jaw clenching to rival a champion gurner - attractive!

I have had tinnitus a couple of times this week upon going to bed. I found this symptom distressing in the past, but feel that I am managing it much better currently.

I find the smallest of physical tasks draining due to ongoing fatigue / lethargy, but I am managing to self care.

On the upside, I do not feel tearful, thoughts of doom and gloom are not present and even my distressing disturbing dreams, which I have had nightly are not impacting me so much. I can concentrate on reading better than this time last week and feel like I am processing information better. My sleep, though not at normal times is of better quality and duration - my last sleep was 11 hours, which I do not feel bad about as my body has been sleep deprived for so long and obviously needs rest.

I have not been out for a few weeks (due to agoraphobia & symptoms) but I am planning to go out for breakfast at the weekend & for a short cycle with my partner and tackle my recovery from agoraphobia & withdrawal head on.

If all goes well over the weekend, I am considering reducing from 5mg to 4.5mg. I'll see how things go.

Thank you so much for the support that I have received here. It is so motivating and reassuring

Hugs to all. Be kind to yourselves.

Tilly

January 15, 2015

Tilly, I emphasize with you. This is not an easy decision. I have no answer for you. My experience at present is similar, I think...i am considering updosing, but somehow cannot drcide what to do...

I am also on escitalopram. I tappered too quickly from 5 to 2.5mg, instead of stabilising on 5mg, when I felt much better than at present.

I have found it so important that I can talk here and getting others suggestions. Being in times overwhelmed with symptoms and panic, I am finding it difficult to think clear and take decisions...

Hi Ikam,

Thank you for your reply. I'm so sorry to hear that you are struggling too (((hugs)))

I totally agree that it is really helpful to have such a wonderful community here to share support & advice.

Decision making can be so tough when you are trying to manage withdrawal symptoms, I agree. I have spent hours on here reading in the last day. I have decided to ride out my current symptoms and taper initially at 5% once I have stabilized for a month.

I am doing a lot of reading on here and will be printing out a lot of information to argue my case with my GP to prescribe liquid Escitalopram to at least make the process of dosing correctly easier and reduce one of the burdens of tapering.

I have resolved to be kind to myself, not rush the process and inform myself with as much knowledge to help me to understand my journey and reduce as much discomfort as possible.

I hope that you are able to make the best decision for you soon.

Take care & be kind to yourself.

Tilly x

Hi Tilly,
I see you have taken the decision and you are preparing to talk to your gp. I agree, they don't have enough training in mental health and medication. But I was prescribed escitalopram by a peychiatrist! I trusted her when she was telling me that it was ok to take doxepin at the same time...

As they don't have enough training, it is easier for big pharma to manipulate them...

It is really sad as a lot of children are prescribed antidepressants...

After being supported yesterday by our wondeful moderators, I feel much more clear today, hence calmer. So almost no paresthesia...

I have decided to stay longer on 2.5mg to stabilise and then decide...

Best wishes and good luck with your gp.

Ikam

Hi Ikam,

Yes, I am currently compiling information to present to my GP. I could usually do this in an evening, but in my current state, It will take a few weeks. I want to be provided with liquid escitalopam as a essential treatment to facilitate safe withdrawal. I also want her to record my symptoms of SSRI withdrawal in writing and have them recorded on my medical records. I feel that this is important as there is no accountability or feedback mechanism currently other than the Rxisk website for self report of withdrawal effects. I hope that the small steps that I am taking to assert myself will not only validate my experiences, but improve the way forward for future sufferers and hopefully inform good practice.

I totally agree, Ikam. The wealth of knowledge and support that I have found here is invaluable to validation of experiences and self recovery.

I hope that this message finds you well. I wish you every success in your recovery.

Thank you Tilly. I have been much better today. Less anxious over symptoms, more able to observe them...
I have noticed that when I am more emotional or doing something that requires energy, my symptoms (with me it is paresthesia in both hand) are more prominent. Also, I get esily tired and if I still need to concentrate I feel some tension in my head and I clench my jaw...

But I have stopped panicking, thanks to support I received here...

I managed to get through a job interview today and got a job:)

It seems that you are preparing yourself well, but as somebody already said, be mindful that it may be a challenge for your doctor.

The way I see in the uk, they have very little training. Moreover, even psychiatrists have very limited views, which are manipulated by pharmaceutical companies...

I remember how my gp responded when I had assessments done elsewhere/i had a severe infection. My gp prescribed something else and my treatment took much longer...She also asked for nhs based assessments completely discarding what I had...

They have very clear guidance to follow, therefore thay cannot really take decisions that relate to the patients needs...

I already reported my symptoms at Rxisk. I think there is also something like yellow card...

Anyway, I hope you will get the prescription for liquid lexapro...

I will need to ask my gp for it as well, but later...

Good luck!

Hi Ikam,

Huge congratulations on getting the job! Interviewing while you are going through so much must have taken a lot of courage on your part. See how much you are capable of? You are much stronger than you give yourself credit for.

I am sharing some of your withdrawal effects, but like you, try to observe rather than obsess over them, knowing that eventually, they will pass.

At the time when I was working with GPs, not so long ago, they received less than 1 weeks training in mental health and are guided on their decisions hugely by the DSM which is based on as much fact and clinical evidence as any fairytale we may have heard as a child. A huge part of my role was advocating for people in mental distress to secure the best care for them which involved challenging GP's & psychiatrists when appropriate. I feel that I should be able to be my own advocate at this point. But I am aware of the probable outcome before I even start. This is not the right time. My energy needs to go into me.

I hope that you stabilise soon. Be kind to yourself, Ikam.

Thank you. I was lucky enough to have a phone interview, so I was at home. I cancelled this interview, but they still wanted to talk to me...

It was not easy. But yes, when I must I am capable to mobilize myself...After the interview I started shaking, which was the sign, which showed me that it cost me more energy than normally.

I am pleased to hear that you have taken the decision of protecting yourself...you need this energy for yourself at present...

I have ordered a book on DSM V,Saving Normal: An Insider's Revolt against Out-of-Control Psychiatric Diagnosis, DSM-5, Big Pharma, and the Medicalization of Ordinary Life Paperback – August 12, 2014, by M.D. Frances Allen

Warm wishes:)

January 15, 2015

Good decision on the Dr. You are in the drivers seat and can do this. Take as long as you need, make decisions that are gentle on your nervous system and ask as many questions as you like.

D

January 15, 2015

If you have been on 5 mg for almost 3 months, if i were you I would try to ride it out.

Definitely wouldn't taper for quite some time. Not only until you get better but after staying better for some time.

Tilly, I just scrolled at the beginning of your thread because I couldn't make it out from your signature how long you have been at 5 mg / since October?. (maybe it would be good to make that clearer by putting an approximate date). I found my post which I'm quoting again.

It seems that you are stabilising at 5 mg but please please please don't start tapering yet. There might still be some waves after this window and holds are such crucial part of tapering.

January 15, 2015

Tilly, I emphasize with you. This is not an easy decision. I have no answer for you. My experience at present is similar, I think...i am considering updosing, but somehow cannot drcide what to do...

I am also on escitalopram. I tappered too quickly from 5 to 2.5mg, instead of stabilising on 5mg, when I felt much better than at present.

I have found it so important that I can talk here and getting others suggestions. Being in times overwhelmed with symptoms and panic, I am finding it difficult to think clear and take decisions...

Hi Ikam,

Thank you for your reply. I'm so sorry to hear that you are struggling too (((hugs)))

I totally agree that it is really helpful to have such a wonderful community here to share support & advice.

Decision making can be so tough when you are trying to manage withdrawal symptoms, I agree. I have spent hours on here reading in the last day. I have decided to ride out my current symptoms and taper initially at 5% once I have stabilized for a month.

I am doing a lot of reading on here and will be printing out a lot of information to argue my case with my GP to prescribe liquid Escitalopram to at least make the process of dosing correctly easier and reduce one of the burdens of tapering.

I have resolved to be kind to myself, not rush the process and inform myself with as much knowledge to help me to understand my journey and reduce as much discomfort as possible.

I hope that you are able to make the best decision for you soon.

Take care & be kind to yourself.

Tilly x

Hi Tilly,
I see you have taken the decision and you are preparing to talk to your gp. I agree, they don't have enough training in mental health and medication. But I was prescribed escitalopram by a peychiatrist! I trusted her when she was telling me that it was ok to take doxepin at the same time...

As they don't have enough training, it is easier for big pharma to manipulate them...

It is really sad as a lot of children are prescribed antidepressants...

After being supported yesterday by our wondeful moderators, I feel much more clear today, hence calmer. So almost no paresthesia...

I have decided to stay longer on 2.5mg to stabilise and then decide...

Best wishes and good luck with your gp.

Ikam

Hi Ikam,

Yes, I am currently compiling information to present to my GP. I could usually do this in an evening, but in my current state, It will take a few weeks. I want to be provided with liquid escitalopam as a essential treatment to facilitate safe withdrawal. I also want her to record my symptoms of SSRI withdrawal in writing and have them recorded on my medical records. I feel that this is important as there is no accountability or feedback mechanism currently other than the Rxisk website for self report of withdrawal effects. I hope that the small steps that I am taking to assert myself will not only validate my experiences, but improve the way forward for future sufferers and hopefully inform good practice.

I totally agree, Ikam. The wealth of knowledge and support that I have found here is invaluable to validation of experiences and self recovery.

I hope that this message finds you well. I wish you every success in your recovery.

Thank you Tilly. I have been much better today. Less anxious over symptoms, more able to observe them...
I have noticed that when I am more emotional or doing something that requires energy, my symptoms (with me it is paresthesia in both hand) are more prominent. Also, I get esily tired and if I still need to concentrate I feel some tension in my head and I clench my jaw...

But I have stopped panicking, thanks to support I received here...

I managed to get through a job interview today and got a job:)

It seems that you are preparing yourself well, but as somebody already said, be mindful that it may be a challenge for your doctor.

The way I see in the uk, they have very little training. Moreover, even psychiatrists have very limited views, which are manipulated by pharmaceutical companies...

I remember how my gp responded when I had assessments done elsewhere/i had a severe infection. My gp prescribed something else and my treatment took much longer...She also asked for nhs based assessments completely discarding what I had...

They have very clear guidance to follow, therefore thay cannot really take decisions that relate to the patients needs...

I already reported my symptoms at Rxisk. I think there is also something like yellow card...

Anyway, I hope you will get the prescription for liquid lexapro...

I will need to ask my gp for it as well, but later...

Good luck!

Hi Ikam,

Huge congratulations on getting the job! Interviewing while you are going through so much must have taken a lot of courage on your part. See how much you are capable of? You are much stronger than you give yourself credit for.

I am sharing some of your withdrawal effects, but like you, try to observe rather than obsess over them, knowing that eventually, they will pass.

At the time when I was working with GPs, not so long ago, they received less than 1 weeks training in mental health and are guided on their decisions hugely by the DSM which is based on as much fact and clinical evidence as any fairytale we may have heard as a child. A huge part of my role was advocating for people in mental distress to secure the best care for them which involved challenging GP's & psychiatrists when appropriate. I feel that I should be able to be my own advocate at this point. But I am aware of the probable outcome before I even start. This is not the right time. My energy needs to go into me.

I hope that you stabilise soon. Be kind to yourself, Ikam.

Thank you. I was lucky enough to have a phone interview, so I was at home. I cancelled this interview, but they still wanted to talk to me...
It was not easy. But yes, when I must I am capable to mobilize myself...After the interview I started shaking, which was the sign, which showed me that it cost me more energy than normally.

I am pleased to hear that you have taken the decision of protecting yourself...you need this energy for yourself at present...

I have ordered a book on DSM V,Saving Normal: An Insider's Revolt against Out-of-Control Psychiatric Diagnosis, DSM-5, Big Pharma, and the Medicalization of Ordinary Life Paperback – August 12, 2014, by M.D. Frances Allen

Warm wishes:)

Hi Ikam,

Thank you for your support.

I agree about the shaking. For me, when I go out I feel very tired / drained afterwards as I suffer from agoraphobia. So my body is overstimulated by going out in a way most peoples wouldn't be.

I too am doing a lot of reading at the moment. It is good to educate ourselves during this process.

Take care & speak soon

January 15, 2015

Good decision on the Dr. You are in the drivers seat and can do this. Take as long as you need, make decisions that are gentle on your nervous system and ask as many questions as you like.

D

Thank you Dalsaan,

You have been a great support to me. I will take things at my pace and ask questions at regular intervals no doubt.

Tilly

January 15, 2015

If you have been on 5 mg for almost 3 months, if i were you I would try to ride it out.

Definitely wouldn't taper for quite some time. Not only until you get better but after staying better for some time.

Tilly, I just scrolled at the beginning of your thread because I couldn't make it out from your signature how long you have been at 5 mg / since October?. (maybe it would be good to make that clearer by putting an approximate date). I found my post which I'm quoting again.

It seems that you are stabilising at 5 mg but please please please don't start tapering yet. There might still be some waves after this window and holds are such crucial part of tapering.

Hi again, Bubble

I've added October to my signature.

I was considering tapering next week as I feel that some of my symptoms are not just due to withdrawal, but other factors have contributed.

I cut out caffeine completely recently which caused a lot of headaches, concentration issues, fatigue & mood changes. I have also reintroduced fish into my diet after a short period of being vegan. I feel that both of these dietary changes have been positive in increasing my well being, but it has taken time for my system to adjust, which at times has caused difficulties.

Another huge fact is that I suffer from SAD very severely. October - March is usually a very difficult time for me due to lack of sunlight and associated mood changes. This time last year while on a stable dose of 10mg, I was probably doing worse than I have been of late. I was tearful, not wanting to go out or engage in many ways and feeling very anxious and hopeless.

When I was increasing or reducing doses in the past, indicators that I have used to base my decision on have included:

Sleep - quality and quantity

Appetite - usually poor (has increased this week)

Motivation - to engage with others and go out (especially difficult as I am agoraphobic)

Humour & Positivity - a big part of my personality that vanishes when effected by medication or severe anxiety

General Health & Wellbeing - absence of allergies / reactions, gut health (I suffer with IBS) & level of self care

I feel that these are all improved. But obviously do not want to jeopardize my withdrawal by tapering too quickly. It would also be foolish to not take advice from people like you who have knowledge due to experience. I am grateful for your advice and value it. :wub:

How long would you recommend holding at this level before tapering. If I had a month of stabilization would you think it viable to reduce then? Do all symptoms need to be absent before tapering to the next level or just a significant reduction to a level where functioning is good? Also, I'm thinking that a 5% taper would produce less side effects even if slower withdrawal? Is this the case for people who have experienced this? Also, I'm guessing that some tapers will be longer than others? One may last 3 months others say 6 (numbers here are arbitrary) depending on how your body reacts and how long it takes to stabilize?

Thank you in advance for any feedback.

Tilly

January 16, 2015

HI Tilly,

I tend to wait until my symptoms are as good as they can be and relatively consistent day to day. How long that takes varies. I threw the calendar out a couple of years ago. More stability improves chances of a better reaction to the dosage drop (no guarantee, but better chance) so its a worthwhile investment. I would also start at 5% and work up if your body handles that. The key aim is to avoid withdrawal symptoms if possible or at least minimise them as much as possible.

Have you tried light therapy for your seasonal stuff?

Alongside magnesium and fish oil, Altostrata, the big kahuna here has had good results with probiotics for gut issues.

D

January 16, 2015

HI Tilly,

I tend to wait until my symptoms are as good as they can be and relatively consistent day to day. How long that takes varies. I threw the calendar out a couple of years ago. More stability improves chances of a better reaction to the dosage drop (no guarantee, but better chance) so its a worthwhile investment. I would also start at 5% and work up if your body handles that. The key aim is to avoid withdrawal symptoms if possible or at least minimise them as much as possible.

Have you tried light therapy for your seasonal stuff?

Alongside magnesium and fish oil, Altostrata, the big kahuna here has had good results with probiotics for gut issues.

D

Hi Dalsaan,

Good advice, thank you!

I'll work on getting out a bit more an see how I fare over the next few weeks. Going out puts additional stress on my CNS but being socially active and getting regular exercise (gentle cycling, swimming & yoga) is soothing, so it tends to even out. I'm working towards going to my local pool as soon as I feel well enough as I love swimming for relaxation and all over exercise. I also love weight training & boxing, but will avoid until I stabilize, as these activities are too stimulating right now.

I have tried SAD light bulbs at home, but they made no difference, unfortunately. I think that the overall feeling of increased daylight, sunshine and nature waking up in the Spring is what inspires me. I appreciate it much more now than I ever did. I am a different person in Spring & Summer. The real me emerges again. I sleep better, get up early, have more energy, exercise and go out more and enjoy nature. I feel much healthier and more vibrant. Maybe I just need to adjust to the Winter as a period of reflection, rest and slow down as nature intended during these months.

However, I am getting blue blocking sunglasses as I have photo sensitivity and believe that this will help. When I am well enough, I will also make blackout linings for my curtains. I have the fabric, but not enough energy currently!

I took magnesium before bed and have slept in the dark & in silence the last few nights, which I have not done in many years due to PTSD. I found that my sleep was much more restful as a result and will continue. I dream every night but could not remember them upon waking today. Maybe this was the magnesium?

I have tried probiotics with little effect. I find that the best thing for my gut health is good nutrition (high in good proteins & veg, low in carbs, no dairy & lots of fluids & peppermint tea), regular exercise balanced with relaxation, self massage of my tummy to regulate peristalsis and minimizing stress. I am currently looking into intermittent enemas to use when my bowel is sluggish apologies if TMI :blush:

What a learning curve this is! I am happy to be on it

Thank you, Dalsaan & all.

Tilly x

Tilly - Escitalopram / Lexapro Tapering - advice please

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