☼ Martina23: Lyrica

[LoveandLight]

another day

[Martina23]

JanCarol, I dont know. I will try magnesium and fish oil first. I am not for full reinstatement. For me the problem is, that I do not have anybody where I could give my children for a while. For the time when the withdrawal is still the worst. I would like to push through with 50mgs a day, if it does not go than I can take 55 mgs, and it it will be really the worst I will run again to psychiatry. But it is the pity because the work is no problem, if I would find somebody to take care for the children for a while, I could continue with 50 or go down.

[Hopefull]

You are welcome, Martina. I hope you can find a way to make your self busy to get through the rough patch. I think it great that you love outdoors, do what you love to do and you will get through this. Hopefull.

[Martina23]

This is so stupid. There is nothing changing with my bad thoughts. It is funny because before I had already feeling it was lifting and now it is worse than ever. I do not know, I have a feeling that my body can not change anything as there is still drug present. Something inside tells me I should indeed go cold turkey and await it for one year. The most anguishing is I can not do it because what should I do with the children. For c/t I would have to be for some time alone. It is funny, that c/t I consider to be the right thing but I can not do it. I dont know. I think this problem is for me too much, nevertheles I will buy magnesium and fish oil, and try it from this side.

[Martina23]

Now I was looking on photos of New York on internet, oh I love New York! I think it is so beautiful, especially by night.

[JanCarol]

It's great that looking at New York can bring you such joy!

 

I have similar feelings about other places.  Arizona.  England.  Certain Aussie beaches.

 

Consider this:  some people, for pain, are prescribed 100mg of Lyrica 3x a day!  That's 300mg a day!  You are on a fraction of that.

 

I don't recommend full reinstatment, and I am not keen to send you back to the prescribing doctors, unless you can use them do your own taper without telling them what you are up to (because you say they don't believe in withdrawal).

 

That's why I recommend updosing a tiny amount, just enough to take the edge off of your suffering.  But you are right - try the fish oil and magnesium first.  

 

I looked for tapering / alternative doctors in your area, sorry.  Vienna - birthplace of psychiatry seems to be stuck in the mud.  

 

But YES, try the magnesium and fish oil first!  DO not start them at the same time.  Maybe start with fish oil, and when you've been on it at least a week, start the magnesium.  The dose of magnesium is different for everyone, you may have to cut the tablets in half, or maybe you can build up to 2 tablets.  The type of magnesium is important, do not get magnesium oxide (the common, cheap form), there are plenty of affordable forms.  ALSO, if you have problems with one kind, try another kind - there are many types to try, and they all hit our system differently.  

 

But if you start the fish oil, wait a week, start the magnesium, wait a week and you are still suffering this badly, you may consider updosing.  

 

Were you able to look at any of the links I sent? This is important, I picked them for you.  What did you think about neuro-emotion?  Could you relate to it?  And did you look at the symptom acceptance meditation video?

 

I'll send you more links when you have looked at those.  Getting your brain balance is about a lot of strategies, including looking at your lifestyle, coping mechanisms, and comforts and ability to soothe yourself when you get into strife.

[Skyler]

Hello Skyler,

 

I am also tapering Lyrica (I went c/t from 100 mg to 0,- and then I reinstated at 50 mg). This was 4 months ago. Before I had the feeling it starts to go better, but again it deteriorated. I am in the worst wave ever, having intrusive thoughts, harm OCD, anxiety, panic attacks and depression. I think your tapering is much more cautious which is right. Do you have some other withdrawal symptoms from Lyrica other than tinnitus?

 

Would you updose on my place to 55 mg or continue tapering? Please give me your opinion on it.

 

Martina

 

My response is pretty much shooting the hip. I don't think there is enough of a taper record on the forum with Lyrica to see a clear path ahead.  That said, much of what applies to one psychotropic applies to the others.

 

My own experience is not the best here... At the outset, before I was in the know... I tried reducing by 1/4 of the total dose over a couple of weeks, etc.  (I got away with doing this for a number of times in the first 5 or 6 years, and was able to ease on and off in a few weeks... then, the last time round,  I got caught out at 300 mgs.)   I ended up on 270 mgs..  I had developed tinnitus which worsened whether I went back up to 300 mgs, or down to 250.  In short, I could not tell if I was coming or going as the constant hissing in my ears was driving to distraction... so after a few weeks of judiciously jostling the dose around, I decided on the 270.  I'm convinced my tweaking was a bad idea, even though at the time, the changes seemed pretty innocuous.  Anyhow, after about two or 3 months it settled down...   You reduced your dose by 50%, and by comparison,  the reduction I ended up taking was 10%.

 

What should you do... I think the most judicious course would be go back up to 55 mgs, hold for a couple of weeks, then go back to 60 mgs. if you think it would help. If you have had no benefit at that point, don't titrate up further.  I would take this to mean the WD symptoms are not going respond to dosage changes, and the only thing that will help taperwise is holding.

 

Also.. are you using a liquid? I've found that Lyrica starts to deteriorate in suspension after two days.  The other drugs I've read about here seem to have less of a tendency to break down, but Lyrica appears to be a standout in this regard.

 

PS... I have had WD Symptoms other than tinnitus, but usually the tinnitus hits first..   Truthfully, I don't really think tinnitus is a WD symptom so much as a response to dose change.. small changes will ramp it up in a hurry..  including an increase in dose..  in any event it has seemed so.  The most prominent WD symptoms I've had is cramping, in my lower legs and feet.  Ouch.. charlie horses are less that fun.  I've also had some insomnia.  But I've always kept pretty much to 10% of the previous month's dose.. and this has stood me in good stead.  My present taper rate is probably around 12% to 13% a month.. which seems good to me. In 'turtle speak', that's moving right along!

 

Edited to add the PS

[Martina23]

JanCarol, I was reading the links. maybe my OCD is something very similar to neuro-emotion. It is only very hard to realize it, when you are in it.

 

I will first do this with fish oil and magnesium. It is all very difficult to me. There on this paper by Lyrica there was written that it is better to stop over one week not cold turkey. I did it and ended with so many problems. I am so much afraid that this will not go a good way. I have at home two little children. But I do not want to get further drugs to come in normal state of kind. This all is for me really a catastroph.

[Martina23]

Thank you Skyler, I envy you so much, you manage the things much better than I was able to.

[Martina23]

JanCarol, I wanted to thank you once more, it must have taken a lot of time to put so much information together, there is a valuable information in your e-mail, thank you for your care, it is really very nice that you care

[brassmonkey]

Hi Martina--  there is so much information to sort through to try and decide what to do, it is a very daunting process.  Especially if you have had trouble with doing it before.  Just remember that nothing happens quickly.  It is best to make one small change at a time and see how it effects you before trying anything else.  Making small changes is the idea behind the "Brassmonkey Slide Method".  My original idea was to sneak up on the 10% drop so that maybe the symptoms wouldn't be as extreme.  For the most part it has worked very well, the symptoms are still there, but are eased into and spread out instead of hitting all at once.  For me, by the end of the extra hold period I was usually feeling pretty stable and ready for the next slide.  I haven't been symptom free, but I think doing it like this is a major reason I have not had the trouble many of the others here have had.  I wish you the best of luck with your taper.

[Martina23]

Today I am feeling again horribly. In the morning I had again scary pictures and general very violent feeling inside, and I realized that my body doesnot do anything to change it and it may stay forever. I am feeling that I am going mad. I thought I would already run again to psychiatry. I can not imagine to endure it so long. Maybe my body is not anymore able to change it. I am thinking if I should not considering take pills and take them all my life.

[ten0275]

Martina, hey.

 

I am sorry you are in such a difficult position right now. I remember how frightening the intrusive thinking and compulsions were, especially with the little ones afoot. You need to know that despite the pain you are feeling, you are being quite strong in the face of it. I honor that in you and find it amazing.

 

So many days, I have seen you fully accept your situation - I have seen you acknowledge that drugs caused the problem and that with time, you recognize you will heal. On other days like today, I have seen you forget everything and decide that it will never change, that you are damaged forever.

 

I remember this from my own withdrawal experience. I sought assurance in intervals, and when I did, it was nonstop. I would ask the same questions over and over and over. When I was in a window, or at least not feeling so terrible, I could accept that I was in withdrawal, that withdrawal was a process, and that I would get through it. When things got difficult, it was like starting over. It's ok to ask the same questions over and over if you need that.

 

Hang in there, Martina. Be persistent. And oh my, if you feel up to taking the little ones to the zoo, by all means do!

 

Oh, and if you stop my the monkey exhibit, tell my cousin Curious George to save a banana for me.

 

Thinking of you. I believe you can get through this, but it is hard right now. I invite you to re-visit the lovely posts JanCarol wrote you and so many of the others on your thread. Let them fill you with a degree of hope.

 

It won't be wasted.

 

Dave

[Skyler]

I am thinking if I should not considering take pills and take them all my life.

 

At this point, any significant updose would probably make things worse.  That's what happened when I destabilized with Lyrica.  The only thing that helped was holding with NO tweaking, long enough to settle down.  Once you do, you should be able a straight forward taper.  You will not need to take pills all your life, and a slow well thought out taper will let you have a good quality of life while doing so.  Right now you are catastrophizing. 

 

Do you drink coffee, or any other caffeinated drink in the morning?

[Martina23]

Yes, two coffees. But I think I am decided about down-taper. I cant hold anymore, it comes me a waste of life. I have from this package still 12 pills, the next packageis 84. This all I devide to 50 mgs, this is maybe 10 days for 10 mgs. I will taper it in this way down and then just try to survive. Something tells me that I held it enough. How Arnold  Schwarzenegger said "only action gives satisfaction"

[Skyler]

Yes, two coffees. But I think I am decided about down-taper. I cant hold anymore, it comes me a waste of life. I have from this package still 12 pills, the next packageis 84. This all I devide to 50 mgs, this is maybe 10 days for 10 mgs. I will taper it in this way down and then just try to survive. Something tells me that I held it enough. How Arnold  Schwarzenegger said "only action gives satisfaction"

 

Lose the coffee (tea, cola, dark chocolate.. anything with caffeine) before you do anything else.  Cut down over one or two weeks so you don't end up with a migraine headache from WD. I could not drink coffee during the worst of my WD... it ramped up my neuroemotions HUGE, and I was vastly improved once I stopped.  You can drink it again once you are over this bad spot.

 

You may think you cannot be more sick than you are now.. but you are very wrong. And what you are suggesting is not a taper, it's weaning off, and this could leave you VERY ill for many more months, or years.  And keep in mind that going off the lower doses is significantly more difficult. DO NOT DO THIS!

 

Arnold was not talking about tapering off psychotropics.  Don't mess with this stuff.  The best taper action you can take now is inaction.  Think wisdom, not action heroes.

[LoveandLight]

You made with laugh with Arnie - no I don't think he was referring to WD! Lol

[Pugknows]

Martina, you've watched the way I'm suffering. DO NOT cold turkey Lyrica. Taper slowly.

[Martina23]

Pug, I am already now suffering as I never suffered. The point is that there is no movement, there is only waiting somewhere in the middle. And absolutely nothing changes. I think it is right that the longer you wait the more only is the possibility to go back on the drug

[Skyler]

Pug, I am already now suffering as I never suffered. The point is that there is no movement, there is only waiting somewhere in the middle. And absolutely nothing changes. I think it is right that the longer you wait the more only is the possibility to go back on the drug

 

Yes, but with the path you are suggesting, you will suffer  more than you ever thought possible. Read Gia's story, she came out of it, but it took interminable years, some of which she was bedridden. I've seen too many people decide that where they are has to be the worst, only to experience a more hellish reality.  Where you are now is better than that.  Please don't do this to yourself.

 

Getting Lyrica out of your system faster does not mean the action of the drug stoops sooner.  Your CNS has been modified by the presence of the drug, and as long as you are in  WD, the action of the drug is still present.  Coming off faster will guarantee your body acts as if the drug is still there much much longer.

 

And do cut back on the coffee... This seems to have been lost from the discussion... it won't end your WD but will very possibly help your symptoms to improve.  It's definitely worth a try.. doing so made my WD tolerable at a time it would otherwise not have been.

[Martina23]

Today my rage was even worse than before.

 

I feel like this man, which ended before trial as he stopped zyprexa and hurt some 80 years old man in the hospital.

 

I feel that my mind is not anymore there.

 

I would like to put myself to the prison for two years, stop Lyrica absolutely and then these two years stay in the prison.

 

I want also such problems like many others insomnia, poor apetite and crying all the time. I think this is the last problem I have ever solved in my life.

 

I dont know why I write it either. It does not help. This drug is so strong. I am sure this will never be good.

 

PS. Actually I am ashamed to write such nonsence, but in my head there is only nonsence now. And the pity is that I am not able to solve it and I havent also anybody to solve it for me. Sorry, but it feels good to write it on the paper.

[Martina23]

I think also, that for some time I would not come to this forum like Loveandlight. I mean when my brain does not function anymore what could you do with it. But I do appreciate the kind words previously given. I think I will hide in my cave and wait until this said story ends.

[Skylarblue75]

I'm so sorry your struggling, always thinking of you.

[Pugknows]

((((Martina)))) Don't give up. We are both around the same time off and struggling even more so than before. It's hard. It's really hard. One more day, Martina. One more friggin day.

[Pugknows]

I know you are still on this God awful drug, but you can work with the mods on tapering off. Try something different. Work with Skylar to come off the drug alongside her.

[Martina23]

Hello Pug, to be honest I started already to taper off. The first I wanted to taper the whole amount of 50 mg through 93 pills of lyrica and then I decided to do it through 177 pills (takes almost 6 months). I will see how it goes. I am not such a technical type.So today with the syringe, how I tried to achieve the real amount, I prayed that no colleague sees. I came me like a druggie. I hope the God forgives me this tapering, I pray that nothing goes irreparably wrong.

[ten0275]

martina, hang in there. be cautious please. i know you are suffering immensely. you will get to lovely new york...

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[Pugknows]

Maybe you could post your tapering plan on your thread for the mods to see and help you tweak it if need be.

[Martina23]

I will do, but I have it only as pdf, I have to ask how to download it

[Pugknows]

Maybe you could just type it into your thread.

[Martina23]

tapering from zero to ten ml:

 

 

 

Mi 03.11.15 0,0

Do 03.12.15 0,1

Fr 03.13.15 0,1

Sa 03.14.15 0,2

So 03.15.15 0,2

Mo 03.16.15 0,3

Di 03.17.15 0,3

Mi 03.18.15 0,4

Do 03.19.15 0,5

Fr 03.20.15 0,5

Sa 03.21.15 0,6

So 03.22.15 0,6

Mo 03.23.15 0,7

Di 03.24.15 0,7

Mi 03.25.15 0,8

Do 03.26.15 0,9

Fr 03.27.15 0,9

Sa 03.28.15 1,0

So 03.29.15 1,0

Mo 03.30.15 1,1

Di 03.31.15 1,1

Mi 04.01.15 1,2

Do 04.02.15 1,3

Fr 04.03.15 1,3

Sa 04.04.15 1,4

So 04.05.15 1,4

Mo 04.06.15 1,5

Di 04.07.15 1,5 Mi 04.08.15 1,6

Do 04.09.15 1,6

Fr 04.10.15 1,7

Sa 04.11.15 1,8

So 04.12.15 1,8

Mo 04.13.15 1,9

Di 04.14.15 1,9

Mi 04.15.15 2,0

Do 04.16.15 2,0

Fr 04.17.15 2,1

Sa 04.18.15 2,2

So 04.19.15 2,2

Mo 04.20.15 2,3

Di 04.21.15 2,3 Mi 04.22.15 2,4 Do 04.23.15 2,4 Fr 04.24.15 2,5 Sa 04.25.15 2,6 So 04.26.15 2,6 Mo 04.27.15 2,7 Di 04.28.15 2,7 Mi 04.29.15 2,8 Do 04.30.15 2,8 Fr 05.01.15 2,9 Sa 05.02.15 3,0 So 05.03.15 3,0 Mo 05.04.15 3,1 Di 05.05.15 3,1 Mi 05.06.15 3,2 Do 05.07.15 3,2 Fr 05.08.15 3,3 Sa 05.09.15 3,4 So 05.10.15 3,4 Mo 05.11.15 3,5 Di 05.12.15 3,5 Mi 05.13.15 3,6 Do 05.14.15 3,6 Fr 05.15.15 3,7 Sa 05.16.15 3,7 So 05.17.15 3,8 Mo 05.18.15 3,9 Di 05.19.15 3,9 Mi 05.20.15 4,0 Do 05.21.15 4,0 Fr 05.22.15 4,1 Sa 05.23.15 4,1 So 05.24.15 4,2 Mo 05.25.15 4,3 Di 05.26.15 4,3 Mi 05.27.15 4,4 Do 05.28.15 4,4 Fr 05.29.15 4,5 Sa 05.30.15 4,5 So 05.31.15 4,6 Mo 06.01.15 4,7 Di 06.02.15 4,7 Mi 06.03.15 4,8 Do 06.04.15 4,8 Fr 06.05.15 4,9 Sa 06.06.15 4,9 So 06.07.15 5,0 Mo 06.08.15 5,1 Di 06.09.15 5,1 Mi 06.10.15 5,2 Do 06.11.15 5,2 Fr 06.12.15 5,3 Sa 06.13.15 5,3 So 06.14.15 5,4 Mo 06.15.15 5,5 Di 06.16.15 5,5 Mi 06.17.15 5,6 Do 06.18.15 5,6 Fr 06.19.15 5,7 Sa 06.20.15 5,7 So 06.21.15 5,8 Mo 06.22.15 5,9 Di 06.23.15 5,9 Mi 06.24.15 6,0 Do 06.25.15 6,0 Fr 06.26.15 6,1 Sa 06.27.15 6,1 So 06.28.15 6,2 Mo 06.29.15 6,2 Di 06.30.15 6,3 Mi 07.01.15 6,4 Do 07.02.15 6,4 Fr 07.03.15 6,5 Sa 07.04.15 6,5 So 07.05.15 6,6 Mo 07.06.15 6,6 Di 07.07.15 6,7 Mi 07.08.15 6,8 Do 07.09.15 6,8 Fr 07.10.15 6,9 Sa 07.11.15 6,9 So 07.12.15 7,0 Mo 07.13.15 7,0 Di 07.14.15 7,1 Mi 07.15.15 7,2 Do 07.16.15 7,2 Fr 07.17.15 7,3 Sa 07.18.15 7,3 So 07.19.15 7,4 Mo 07.20.15 7,4 Di 07.21.15 7,5 Mi 07.22.15 7,6 Do 07.23.15 7,6 Fr 07.24.15 7,7 Sa 07.25.15 7,7 So 07.26.15 7,8 Mo 07.27.15 7,8 Di 07.28.15 7,9 Mi 07.29.15 8,0 Do 07.30.15 8,0 Fr 07.31.15 8,1 Sa 08.01.15 8,1 So 08.02.15 8,2 Mo 08.03.15 8,2 Di 08.04.15 8,3 Mi 08.05.15 8,4 Do 08.06.15 8,4 Fr 08.07.15 8,5 Sa 08.08.15 8,5 So 08.09.15 8,6 Mo 08.10.15 8,6 Di 08.11.15 8,7 Mi 08.12.15 8,7

Do 08.13.15 8,8

Fr 08.14.15 8,9

Sa 08.15.15 8,9

So 08.16.15 9,0

Mo 08.17.15 9,0

Di 08.18.15 9,1

Mi 08.19.15 9,1

Do 08.20.15 9,2

Fr 08.21.15 9,3

Sa 08.22.15 9,3

So 08.23.15 9,4

Mo 08.24.15 9,4

Di 08.25.15 9,5

Mi 08.26.15 9,5

Do 08.27.15 9,6

Fr 08.28.15 9,7

Sa 08.29.15 9,7

So 08.30.15 9,8

Mo 08.31.15 9,8

Di 09.01.15 9,9

Mi 09.02.15 9,9

Do 09.03.15 10,0

[Martina23]

This is always so frustrating to speak with the friends about the withdrawal. They know that in the movement I have these violent rages. I asked them if they think that I would return to my normal peaceful non-violent state and they said "we hope so. But you have to control yourself, because if you do something bad immediately they will put to the hospital and medicate you all over". I mean, after such statements I always want to give up. I feel then so risky, flowing against the stream with no certainty only someone who is "irresponsibly endangering everything round myself".

[Pugknows]

Martina, try not to talk to people who couldn't possibly understand any of this withdrawal cr*p. Your friends mean well, but they don't get it and end up making you feel worse. You're going to get better. You have a plan. That's excellent. You are on your way!

[JanCarol]

Hey Martina, so sorry you are suffering.  Still.  (and yet it is still only beginning, as Skyler has said)

 

So you want to taper from 50mg to 40mg in 6 months?  All I see here is a constant taper of 10 mg?   With no holds for stabilisation in between.  Holds are an essential part of the taper process, to give your brain time to adjust before you do it again.  This seems dangerous to me.  Additionally, you may have stress in your life, sickness, or baby getting sick - and you may need to hold to adjust.  You can't see 6 months from now - heck, you're having a difficult time seeing tomorrow.  Let's look at right now, first.

 

You're still on 50 mg, as per your signature?

 

Have you gotten any fish oil or magnesium?

 

Have you quit caffeine?  (great call, Skyler!)

 

You need to take care of yourself, and get your support in place - or your taper could be extremely difficult.

 

Put the foundation down, before you try and build the house.

 

My first thought is:  do not do anything until you are stable.  You are not stable, you are suffering.  These drugs are not aspirin.  They change your brain, and when you adjust your dosages, your brain goes out of balance, and sends you symptoms, until it heals from the drop/taper.  We recommend 3 weeks between tapers, because that gives you time to grow some new neurons and form new pathways before you do it again.

 

Rhi said it so eloquently, here: Rhi's description of healing the brain

 

We want you to be well, we want you to be safe.  Believe me, if anyone understands how much you hate the drug and why - it's us in SA.  We've each been through our own versions of he11 and nearly all of us have come out the other side.  Sometimes it takes longer, sometimes we're left with a "sticky symptom" that we have to deal with, and sometimes it's hard to see because many people leave SA when they get better.

 

Please help explain your taper plan, and then please delay it until you've had time to quit caffeine - or at least reduce it drastically - and try magnesium and fish oil.

 

There will be a window in your future if you do.

[Martina23]

It is not for six months from 50 to 40, but from 50 to zero. 50 mg is 10 ml and these 10 ml should be tapered through 6 months period. First I give away 0, 1 and in the end the whole 10 ml

[Martina23]

I cant quit caffee, I am dependent on it. And yes I am not stable, but how long should I wait, I could wait like this for years and I took Lyrica only for 1,5 year, I dont know.