☼ Martina23: Lyrica

[Martina23]

It is funny how before I would never think that I would suffer from something like withdrawal. Sometimes the life changes from minute to minute. Priorly I had so many great plans, I wanted to ground my own company and at once this all does not have meaning anymore. There are so many beautiful things in life, relationships, I am so afraid that these would never more accessible to me.

[Martina23]

Today I realized how much senseless is to sit and wait until miracle comes. As this is not a life anymore, I wanted to go at least to Zero that the body can start heal the Problem. In other case I think I will go back to 100. This fifty is not an option for me. No sure, all the relatives were against that I go on zero.  I should taper instead. I am so angry about myself. Always in my life doing what the other want, never I what I want myself. The problem is that the consequences I will bear not the others.  I hate this life. Only duty, but no rights. I think, if there would not be a risk that the People stay after suicide disabled, I would consider  suicide. At least it would be peace.

[Pugknows]

Martina, I feel for you. Waiting is the hardest part of all this WD. It's just so against our human nature to do nothing. You need to stabilize. Feel stronger. Then decide what you want to do. Don't make decisions when you are unstable. Be gentle with yourself. Walk on eggshells right now.

[LoveandLight]

I thought you had started to taper? X

[Martina23]

I started to taper and then I thought it might be quicker when I am on zero immediately.

[Martina23]

Loveandlight, are you from Iverness? It is funny, I had this feeling that Charlotte Broente was from Inverness. But I checked it in internet and did not find anything. I love her books, Jane Eyre and also from Emily Broente Wuthering Heights.

[Wildflower0214]

Did you just totally stop your med?

[Martina23]

No, I continue tapering. But maybe I do, but first I have to find solution that I will hire someone to be with the children for the worst time

[Wildflower0214]

Ok.. I wouldn't cold turkey if I were you. But, good thing you are planning ahead, for your children.

[LoveandLight]

Yes..from inverness..no she was not from here..I have a look where..

 

You said your always going others advice..doc and family..but it was because you didn't have the right information at the time..I wish, wish that I had found this site before I started wd'ing at all..then I could have done it safely from the start,.but we had no such info then..

[Martina23]

Yes, you are right. I had already a bad start. Therefore now it is so terrible for me to hold. What should I say? At the moment I am thankful that everybody is ok, when it goes worst I can still run to the psychiatry. To vanish on some isolated island I can not, I assume,because of children. Even if, please understand me right, I love my children very much and there is notna question that I want to take care of them as good as I can

[Pugknows]

Good for you, Martina. The love for your children will pull you through this. What are your current symptoms?

[Martina23]

A very good question. The same than on the beginning. Mostly rage and violent ideas all around. They dont seem to subside even a little. My whole head is a mess. And it is killing me because I was always a very non-violent person. I have problems to deal with these. I can not tell myself it will go away, I feel so bad and guilty that these ideas come and I always think this might be forever. We are with the children in restaurant. They are destroying again something, glass with apple juice.

[Martina23]

Every time we come to the restaurant, there is somone complaining. The children are very lively and make quite a lot of disorder, but I think all the children are like this and it is not a problem. But always such old ladies likely childless start to complain that they do not have enough discipline

[Martina23]

In my twenties I used to travel a lot to Jordan, and I saw there a bunch of Arabic children playing on the roof of the house. No one was taking care. Sometimes some fell down and everybody was ok. And these children came me happier and more prepared for life then the children which get too much discipline.

[Martina23]

When I was young and felt so bad like now (no, I have never felt so bad like now) I listened to Sade, it is my favourite singer, she has such very sad songs like your love is king, and started drawing. I am not really talented but it made me feel better. Maybe I could start it again, it is only complicated, because the children never want to go to the bed if I stay up. I have literally to with them to bed, because in other case noone is sleeping.

[Pugknows]

Can you find time for yourself when they nap? Creating art is a great outlet.

[Martina23]

I think also, this would help. I have to make use them for having a nap. They always want to sleep only with mama.

[JanCarol]

It is not for six months from 50 to 40, but from 50 to zero. 50 mg is 10 ml and these 10 ml should be tapered through 6 months period. First I give away 0, 1 and in the end the whole 10 ml

OK, so you are microtapering every 2-3 days.

 

I still maintain that you will need to hold.  You need to give your brain time to stabilize.  This is still too fast of a taper.  I'm no mathemetician, but in 6 months time, using our 10% method, you would still be on 25 to 26.5 mg.  Going too fast is asking for trouble.  

 

Conservative taper (sorry, I'm not good at the liquid thing)

Month 1  50 mg to 45 mg (10%)

Month 2  45 mg to 40.5 mg (10% of former dose)

Month 3  40.5 mg to 36.5 mg (9.8% of former dose)

Month 4  36.5 mg 33 mg (9.5% of former dose)

Month 5   33 mg to 29.5 mg (10.6% of former dose)

Month 6  29.5 mg to 26.5 mg (10.1% of former dose)

 

Do you see how much more conservative this is than your plan?  The advantage of this plan is that you can slow it down, or if you're doing really well, accelerate it by a week (no more, 3 weeks minimum between tapers).  And you have time to heal in between your tapers.

 

Holding gives your brain time to heal before you do it again.  I read somewhere that it takes 6 days to form a neuron.  If you are tapering every 2-3 days, there's no time for neuro-regeneration until you do it again.

 

Your fast taper is a fast track to symptoms and side effects, and considering your current condition - I don't think you want those.  Holding to a schedule is great if you are a bodybuilder (like Arnie) but when you are rebuilding your brain, it's more like building a house - the cement must set, you have to wait for the correct fittings to arrive, everything is done carefully and in order - and the time schedule might be longer than you'd planned.  Pinning your taper down to a tight schedule is adding stress to your situation.

 

I'm still on page 4, I'm hoping others have chimed in with similar suggestions.

[Pugknows]

Arnie is the Terminator. I am the Ruminator.

[JanCarol]

Pug, you have a gift for bringing a light heart to heavy places!

 

Martina I'm sorry you are still suffering, and that you are finding it so unbearable.  

 

You did not hold long enough before starting to taper again.  You have not heard what other experienced persons are saying.  You are going headstrong into the wind, against the advice here.

 

A hold might be for 6 months, or more.  Patience, waiting, holding is the only way you will see (or 5 mg reinstatement, but that possibility is fading every day).  If in 6 months time you still suffer at this same level, then maybe you are right and we are wrong.  But we won't know for another several months of STABLE DOSE.  That's the same dose, every day, for several months.  No tapering, no fiddling.

 

I recognize that the pain and thoughts are unbearable.  You did a very fast, linear taper - but the brain is not linear.  You are wanting to do another very fast, linear taper - but the brain is not linear.

 

Try this video, to see if it explains what I am saying.  Please re-read about neuro-emotions, and about "Rhi's description of healing the brain" that I posted here.

 

[Martina23]

JanCarol, I want to try it through this 6 months (or three months, if I would not bear 6 months). I understand that maybe it is too quick, but on the other hand I had to take Lyrica for 1,5 year, if I would still hold and than do it via 10% method, then I would go down once more 1,5 year. Sure if nothing works than either I will do 10% or take some other medicine that I can function in the real life, but I want to be out of the drug, this was the purpose of this whole thing, you know.

 

Please do not be angry with me, I just can not do it other, I would not bear to stay on 50% for 6 or more months, I am already fighting from my last will! But I know if I would be now on zero, I would find still some strenght in me to continue.

[Wildflower0214]

I think an assumption is being made here. And that is...

 

"It can't get any worse than it is right now. The drug is making me sick."

 

#1- rule of WD, it can ALWAYS get worse, a lot worse.

#2- the drug may be making you sick, but coming off too fast will make you sicker.

 

I am in a similar situation with ativan. I know it has gone bad on me. But, I have to taper slowly.

 

Right now, you are able to work, sleep, and eat.

This could potentially all be out the window if you taper too quickly. You say you could tough it out. Trust me, your resolve to fight would be near gone after a good 72 hours with absolutely NO sleep. I'm not talking about broken sleep, I'm talking about NO sleep, up all night pacing. There are people here who cannot even swallow and have to use a straw to eat food from a blender, whose bladders will not empty, who cannot breathe correctly, who have to use a cane to walk...I could go on and on.

 

Im not trying to scare you, this is reality.

 

Please think carefully about the advice you have been given. Please make a wise choice. I don't want to see you get sicker.

[ten0275]

martina, hey.

 

jancarol and wildflower have said some very astute things. i would like to add my own perspective.

 

please bear in mind that the intrusive thoughts did not begin while you were on the lyrica for 1.5 years. the thoughts came upon the destabilization of your nervous system when you withdrew from the drug too quickly. therefore it stands to reason that the continued use of the lyrica is not causing the thoughts you now have - but rather the ongoing fallout from your first rapid taper lies at the root of the horrific visions you face. this was precisely how it was with me. the thoughts went away with the drug still in my system. my nervous system needed to stabilize.

 

i think the suggestion is to hold and then taper slowly so that your nervous system can settle, and begin to heal. it further stands to reason that if you taper too fast from the lyrica again, it will do nothing to quell the thoughts that the first rapid taper created. and perhaps even make matters much worse.

 

also, i think you will be hard-pressed to find a drug solution to the thoughts - i don't think there is anything that can be prescribed to make them go away. i searched hard and long to no avail in my withdrawal. i self-hospitalized twice and was given bottles full of dead-ends. i finally just had to wait it out.

 

i know you feel trapped with this situation. everything within you is screaming for change out of fear, pain, and the flat out necessity to be able to perform in your life the way you need to. the problem is, fast change is to my knowledge, not available. but healing is, if you allow it.

 

as i went through this with children in the house too, i know how that intensifies things. as a single mother, you have a further challenge which really causes my heart to ache for your situation. i feel it would be most beneficial if you could seek to create a network of people - family or close friends - who can help take some of the pressure from your plate. and if you are not already doing so, seek some kind of therapy that is not reliant on drugs. that is to say, counseling that will help you to challenge the thoughts and impulses as they arise.

 

your mind and body that have been shocked and rocked by change need a period of no-change to facilitate healing. i truly believe this to be the case. it proved true with me, and many, many others. all of those who gave me advice on my intrusive thoughts when i was facing them had seen theirs abate while still on the medications that had offended. but they tapered slowly and healing occurred all along, even when not completely palpable.

 

hang in there.

 

dave

[Pugknows]

Martina, I know you want off this poison. I understand. You have often said to me, "Well at least you are no longer on the drug." I don't think you realize how much I'm suffering. And I don't have babies to care for.

 

You can at least go out and have breakfast with the children. You can work. You can drink coffee. You can eat. You can sleep. You don't pace all day. You don't wake up at 3am with your heart racing and pounding through your chest. You don't fall over dizzy. You don't have to lay in bed all day sicker than a dog. You're not nauseous. Trust me. It can get so much worse, sweetheart, like WF said.

 

And you have no backup plan to care for your babies when you cannot. And believe me. You will not be able to care for them if you go into acute WD.

 

Everyone is telling you that your taper is too aggressive. Okay, so don't abandon the tapering, just do it slower. Maybe you will feel better if you micro taper. You're still working towards getting the poison out of your system. You will have a quality of life that will leave you functional. If you end up in the hospital, who will take care of your babies? They will load you up with even more drugs and you will have set yourself back, making all these months of misery count for nothing. You'll be back at the beginning, but worse.

[Martina23]

To be honest, I dont know what is right. I am so much afraid that I will stay like this. I love people and I want that it also feel like this (like it was before) and not such strange feelings and thoughts which do not belong to me at all. But I dont know if tapering or holding is right.

[btdt]

I wish we knew more about this drug I did try it but was unable to tolerate it... I think it was given to me to get me over the hump of wd as that is what I was feeling when it was offered. 

I am so sorry this is happening to you 

I wish you peace

[btdt]

From Muddles thread:

"The lyrica is my first medicine, i got it for PGAD 1,5 years ago. Here they want to give me for withdrawal "depression" additionally anafranil and seroquel, on the beginning i took some for ca 5 days, now for last 4 days i took only my stable dosis of lyrica 50 and other medicines went to the toilet "

 

Could you please tell me why you had PCAD was it from taking a previous drug?  

 

It is difficult to understand what your up against without all of your drug history. It truly would be helpful to add everything and all drug use is important to add not just the last few years as all drug use adds to the understanding of where you are right now. 

Please update your profile to add a complete drug history. 

Sorry to keep harping on this but how long ago did you take the anafranil (does it have another name... and what dose did you take? ) how much and how long were you on seroquel?

Everything counts in my mind everything. 

[ten0275]

martina, hey.

 

the fear that you are permanently broken is all part of it - at least it was for me.

 

my very best advice to you is this. beyond the opinions, experience, and research that is available on this site, look into the very core of your own withdrawal experience. be your own resource here. ask yourself some questions. i used to have to do this many times a day to keep myself on track.

 

some possible questions to ask yourself:

 

*did you experience these thoughts while on lyrica for 1.5 years? (i believe you said "no")

*did the thoughts begin when you rapidly discontinued after 1.5 years? (i believe you said "yes")

*did the drugs they tried to administer you in the hospital help the thoughts? (i believe you said "no")

*have the thoughts gotten worse since your reinstatement (i'm not sure you have said)

 

etc. etc.

 

you may want to journal these things. be your own case-worker in this situation. the position you are in now is beyond confusing. i well remember. and your life situation is one where even in perfect mental and physical form, the challenges are formidable. you are without question in a difficult spot. but it is not hopeless by any means!

 

you very much have to make your own choice in this situation. try as best you can to utilize the view you yourself are gaining from your own horrid experience.

 

and let me close this with one final word. i'm going to estimate that i've communicated with at least a dozen, if not many more, people during my withdrawal experience who had the same thoughts and impulses i had, and which you seem to be suffering now. martina, hear this - not a single one of them stayed like that forever. the thoughts went away as they healed.

 

hang in there.

 

dave

[Martina23]

Seroquell - maybe 4 days when in the hospital two months ago

Anafranil - for the first time I got it with Lyrica as a PGAD Treatment, but only 25 mg (very little dose) and I did not take it either, and the second time now months ago in the hospital for four - five days

[Martina23]

Thank you Dave. I hope only, that I have what you had (I mean I hope that we experienced the same thing).

 

PS. I saw you have a new photo. My daughter Emily likes it very much (she is sitting on my knees as I am writing you).

[btdt]

I wish I knew more about these drugs I just don't.  I have attempted to look them up and find my head swooning I have yet another infection and hope to try again when I am well simply not up to it. I am sorry not that it would help anyway we just never know.  

[ten0275]

martina,

 

you are welcome. and remember, here is another place where you can use this power of your own logic.

 

 

 

I hope that we experienced the same thing

 

my thoughts and impulses came from a withdrawal experience, and they left with the healing from the withdrawal experience.

 

when did your intrusive thoughts and impulses come, martina? was it not fairly immediately after rapidly withdrawing from lyrica?

 

sometimes, the hardest hurdle is accepting where the intensity has originated - and then simply accepting it for what it is without adding all the other what-ifs and fears onto it - and hanging with the process to correct it.

 

i think your intuition, if i have read you right these last months, has been that the too-fast withdrawal from lyrica caused the problem.

 

i hope that you will choose the path of gentleness for your brain and nervous system going forward. they need you more than ever.

 

please hang in there!

 

dave

[Pugknows]

Martina, reading Dave's posts are so soothing, aren't they? I can almost hear his voice inside my head. Please read his posts again and again. He is gentle and kind and compassionate. Don't read anything but Dave's posts. You are getting withdrawal confusion, withdrawal despair, withdrawal f*ckedupness. Just listen to his voice, not your own right now. Let him mentor you through this. I would trust him with my life right now to be the voice of reason when I cannot hear anything but chaos, to guide me when I'm blind as batsh*t in withdrawal symptoms. Just reread everything he posts in this forum. Let him help you. You need an angel, sweetheart, and God works in mysterious ways. Dave might be too humble to admit all he does for others, especially me, but grab hold of his hand, okay? If he weren't married, I'd nab him myself.

[Pugknows]

Does that make me a cougar? Ugh! Another reminder of my decrepit age.

[Martina23]

I hope I hear no one's voice inside my head ...