☼ Martina23: Lyrica

[Skyler]

If it goes very bad, should I take this seroquell which they gave me last time in the hospital? I went back to 50 mg Lyrica, maybe it was not right, but I thought because of children I have to try to function in some way. I feel like a loser, crying, my brain does not do anything, I can not believe this situation where I found myself in, the brain destroyed, I find my brain to hate my children even if I love them most of all, I would the most like to jump of some bridge, I am only afraid of psychiatry that this is end of me.

 

Martina... please put the date you started to hold Lyrica in your sig line.   I would think that in the next couple of months you would begin to feel some improvement if you do not change your other medications around, adding or subtracting.  The addition of other drugs will not undo the problems caused by the earlier too precipitous reduction of Lyrica, but they may make your WD Sx worse.

 

Are you still drinking 2 cups of coffee a day on top of all the WD you are currently feeling?  Doing so may greatly magnify the cortisol effect and would be adding to your suffering significantly.  Again, I could not tolerate caffeine when I was in WD.

[Martina23]

Skyler, but what can I do that I do feel this that my body now seems to hate everything in sight? I am so afraid of this.

[Skyler]

Skyler, but what can I do that I do feel this that my body now seems to hate everything in sight? I am so afraid of this.

 

Let yourself be afraid and then let it go.  The road to recovery will be fastest if you don't compulsively readjust doses. Your pain is most unfortunate, but obsessively focusing on WD Sx will only make you worse.

 

You said the intrusive thoughts predated the drugs if my memory serves.  It sounds like you are obsessing over WD, and in addition have a compulsive need to add more medications.  Have you investigated therapy to help with intrusive thoughts that appear to have an OCD like intensity?

[Martina23]

I am so afraid that I will hurt my children. And what if it really happens? It is only that it is already 5 months and my body does not do anything. It is so severe. I am so afraid that I will do something to my children and then I go to the prison. I mean prison would be egal, but I dont want to do anything to my children I love them. There is something bad in me now. You think, that the body can heal even if you are still on the half of drug or not? Skyler, sorry for so many questions, but I am so scared. I can not recognize my mind anymore.

[Skyler]

You need to be in treatment with a therapist.  I believe deep seated problems need to be addressed for lasting help, BUT, where WD Sx are involved, getting CBT to address chemically driven obsessions would be a help.  The fears you just expressed need more than the help we can provide on a site like this, and attest the need for ongoing support in the real world.

 

You have not responded to my comments about the importance of ditching caffeine while you are in so much cortisol distress.  Do you not believe me?

[Martina23]

I reduced coffee and cola. Before I had two coffees a day and now I have only one. And I try not to drink any cola. I believe you. How long does it take until these chemically driven symptoms go away? Today I had a break down in the company (I was still crying), unfortunately my boss was here and saw it and told that his can not continue like this, that her husband is a therapist and I should give her my number and he calls me for meeting. I hope it goes without additional drugs, but it is so severe that it is not important anymore.

[Martina23]

I am holding already for five months on 50 mg.

[Skyler]

I am holding already for five months on 50 mg.

 

Yes, put this in your sig. line so I don't need to look through back posts to reference this.  I respond to a number of members and cannot keep track as well as might be.  An up to date sig line helps us help you.

 

I reduced coffee and cola. Before I had two coffees a day and now I have only one. And I try not to drink any cola. I believe you. How long does it take until these chemically driven symptoms go away? Today I had a break down in the company (I was still crying), unfortunately my boss was here and saw it and told that his can not continue like this, that her husband is a therapist and I should give her my number and he calls me for meeting. I hope it goes without additional drugs, but it is so severe that it is not important anymore.

 

Right, you need to lose the coffee (caffeine), not just reduce it.  Do the cortisol related symptoms get better later in the day?  If so, these symptoms could be related to caffeine, which slowly leaves your system as the day progresses.  My symptoms would significantly improve starting at about 4 PM, then get worse after I drank my AM coffee.  It's up to you.. but outside of judicious tapering, the one action I took that was the most helpful was stopping ALL caffeine, cola, coffee, tea, chocolate.. Doing so resulted in a big improvement.  And I'd sure go there before thinking about medicating with other psychotropics.

 

For therapy... you need to decide if seeing your boss'es husband is a good idea.  Perhaps there are other ways you can find a good therapist.  I'm not familiar with the system is Italy.  Ongoing real world support is what you need however.. we can only do so much on a site like this one.

[Martina23]

I also think it is not so good idea, but because of crying they found it out that something is not ok, it is very hard to hide that you are in the middle of withdrawal before the outside world.

[Skyler]

Right, you need to lose the coffee (caffeine), not just reduce it.

 

I reduced coffee and cola. Before I had two coffees a day and now I have only one. And I try not to drink any cola.

 

 

I cannot overemphasize how much taking the above action may help. 

 

I also think it is not so good idea, but because of crying they found it out that something is not ok, it is very hard to hide that you are in the middle of withdrawal before the outside world.

 

All the more reason to find someone in the mental health network who can help you.  I agree the bosses husband seems like a bad idea, but you could let her know you are getting help if the issue comes up again provided you have made other arrangements.

[ten0275]

martina, hey.

 

sorry you continue to suffer. the thoughts can put the hurt on like nearly nothing else, can't they?

 

i'd agree with skyler that giving caffeine a break would be worth a shot (its been mentioned to you before a ways back, if i recall). i went through two phases of withdrawal: benzo withdrawal, and then what i continue to experience with my waning AD. i found that stopping caffeine was beneficial in benzo withdrawal. conversely, caffeine has been a benefit in withdrawing from my AD. it keeps the dogs of depression on a better leash - for me. so were i in your shoes, i'd ditch the caffeine totally for a short period of time and see if it has any positive affect - see if it cools off your nervous system at all. if not, then resume consumption. we're all different when it comes to caffeine i think. you may need to taper the caffeine. i get a puke-on-my-shoes-style-migraine for days if i try to ditch caffeine too fast.

 

therapy is interesting when it comes to "the thoughts." i utilized a therapist during withdrawal. all the cognitive restructuring techniques that are reccomended with CBT and related therapies are very useful, i found, for learning how to cope with the way the intrusive thoughts impact your full being. i found that i could not do anything at all to stop the thoughts, but that learning how to be less responsive to them saved me from running out of the supermarket sobbing because i just had some sort of completely violent thought about a random stranger (which happened all the time!). again, it's not going to solve the problem, but it can give you some tools to cope.

 

it was very important to me to find a therapist who understood that i didn't have OCD - that my intrusive thoughts were from withdrawal, and that my therapy needed to be a little more dynamic than strictly by-the-book CBT. also, it was important to me to find a therapist who believed that the therapy was adequate and that medication was not the way to go. in the united states, psychologists and therapists tend to be more responsive to non-drug options. psychiatrists here only do drugs, for the most part. i wonder if it is the same in austria.

 

all of these things are an effort for you to do one thing, martina: weather the storm. if there were a hurricane bearing down on you right now, you would not go outside and try to use a fan to blow it away. you wouldn't try to suck it up in a vaccuum cleaner or quarantine the water in buckets. that would be a wasted effort. but you would hunker down with the necessary provisions and ride it out. that is the thought here. that is how i viewed my withdrawl, particularly when the thoughts were at their worst. hunker down, ride it out, try to limit the loss (for example: try not to lose your job, try not to end up in the hospital, etc) - until the healing becomes palpable. and then, just like after a great storm, you can emerge and rebuild anything that might need rebuilding.

 

hang in there. i know the waiting game is so frustrating, tedious, terrifying.

 

dave

[InvisibleUnless]

i cant state a better response than dave, by far, but i want to chime in with he and skyler that having a therapist is of significant importance.  it helps a lot to have someone present and grounding when dealing with such difficult thoughts, and its both supportive and helpful to have someone on your side pitching therapeutic ideas and making an effort to understand your situation.  hopefully there is enough coverage in your area for you to find someone that is affordable who makes you feel comfortable and helped---psychologists usually have relatively individualized approaches, even within larger schools of treatment like cognitive behavior therapy.  dont settle for a counselor that is not constructive or refuses to see your point of view; see if you can find someone that can rise to the challenge of withdrawal, like you have to, and also challenge you to persevere.

 

if you have symptoms/difficulties that predate medication, its all that more important to see a therapist that can bring to light your issues and help you work through them.  its not always a situation where a "cure" is possible---personal understanding and healthier management are usually the main goals of counseling.  but, many people experience a great reduction or elimination of even the worst symptoms, and having someone to understand in a professional and treatment-oriented environment already goes a long way for some people.  there is, in my opinion, no better time than now, in withdrawal and recovery, to rebuild yourself as better than ever.  it is quite grueling, and painful, but it is also an opportunity for radically reshaping your self-concept.

 

you are still coherently recognizing when you feel something that seems dangerous: you are not whacked out or beyond salvation.  it is the most serious kind of mind-trip, to feel things and think things that are not 'your own' feelings and thoughts, but you are here posting day after day---youre surviving it.  youre right that going through withdrawal simply cannot be hidden sometimes, and i hope you seriously consider what seems to be the caring advice of people around you with regards to getting a therapist so you have someone on your team who is local and available as a coping resource.

[Martina23]

Thank you Dave and InvissibleUnless,

 

Normally I would be very grateful to you but currently I am not able even to think.

 

I am alone at home because children are by my mother. I took the post actually from last 2 weeks, I was not able before. Nothing new under the sun, everybody wants only money, and the best mostly for no service at all. I wonder how these state corporations when they want the money, they get the court and everything so quickly. If I have receivable, mostly there is no court at all.

 

I loved to earn money before. I also had some because I loved the work I am doing. But now it seems in withdrawal it is very hard to be anything active or find a joy in anything at all.

 

 

I think at the moment I would find joy only if I would die. I can not endure this bad thinking, struggling not to take any medicaments, but I am sure if something happens the full responsibility is by me. I can imagine I could live again happy. The children let here some of their little clothes, I used to love them more than anything else, I can not imagine that these doctors destroyed me my brain so much, that I have these harmful thoughs, and I do not know even why. I can not imagine that we can live happily with the children together. The whole my life comes destroyed to me.

 

 

Hope everyone is well. I am sorry I dont see at the moment any place for me on the world

[ten0275]

martina, hi.

 

try to use this time, this precious time while your children are in the care of your mother, to quiet your thinking - if possible. that may mean taking a break from this site for the evening to just sit with yourself. yes, the bad thoughts will likely still be there. but your children aren't there right now and as you are bothered most when they are there (it was the same for me), use this time to let your mind go sort of free with the thoughts. try not to place judgement on the thoughts, just let them arise and fade, arise and fade.

 

the hopelessness is terrible, martina. i know this. because the thoughts are abhorrent to you, you don't understand how you can be made to live a life with them. but you won't have to live a whole life with them. these are temporary times. please do not try to affix a permanent solution to a temporary problem. when you surmount this, you will be glad you held firm.

 

can you clarify something for me? a few others have noted that you said you'd had these thoughts in the past, before the lyrica, but i don't remember you ever saying that. you didn't start having these thoughts until withdrawal, correct? clarify that if you can. either way, the way i have seen this work in myself and others is this. if you didn't have the thoughts prior to withdrawal, you will not have them after withdrawal. if you did have them prior to withdrawal and withdrawal aggravated them, then they will likely return to what they were before withdrawal.

 

this is more exhausting than a marathon - and there aren't many rest-stops to regain footing along the way. but they, the respites, will become more plentiful, and you will find hope whenever you have these moments to replenish your spirits.

 

use your alone-time wisely, martina. make a list of what you would like to do (taper caffeine, look into a psychologist, etc). write down sentences you can memorize to challenge the thoughts. lie on your back comfortably and take deep breaths. try to center yourself in any way you can. you sound your nervous system is burning hot. try to cool yourself out, try to bring the volume down.

 

these are the rock hard times. they will not always be. please see this through.

 

hang in there.

 

dave

[Martina23]

I did not have the intrusive thoughts before. I did not have depression and I did not have harm OCD. I was completely normal in my head.

[ten0275]

that is what i remembered. you had never known these thoughts before. they are a symptom martina, and they will go.

[LoveandLight]

(((Martina)) so sorry you have to go through this <3

[Skyler]

I did not have the intrusive thoughts before. I did not have depression and I did not have harm OCD. I was completely normal in my head.

 

I'm sorry Martina, I thought you had indicated so in an earlier post.  I tried to seem inviting of a correction if I had the wrong!  This is all a miserable trip, no way around that.

[Fresh]

Hi  Martina ,  I've been reading your thread for a while and am full of admiration that you continue to work and care

for your children through this.

 

Could you clarify for me , when did you recommence Lyrica 50mg?    And , did you increase yesterday , just before

you had a 10 minute window?    I was wondering what dose you've gone up to , or if I misunderstood your post on

another thread.

 

Happy to hear you had tiny break from the distress , and hope it's a sign of more to come.

 

 Fresh

[LoveandLight]

Yay for a window! More will be coming soon hug xxx

[Martina23]

Before I was on 47,50 mgs. And before yesterday it started to be really unbearable, always when I go down with Lyrica even for 2,5 mg, I get totally suicidal depression, akathision urges to suicide and so on. And when I started to be afraid that I will have problem to take care of my children, I gave them my mother and increased to 50 mg (yesterday was the first days of getting to 50 mgs). And yesterday at 11 pm I got this strange feeling that I am me like before (I was reading some newspaper and there was also this about this German pilot which crashed with the whole plane on purpose, I thought only oh my god, how can he do this, not obsessing like most of the time, if I could do something like this and then I thought about my mother and grandmother that I love them and also on my children that I love them even more, and there was not this bad anymore, I thought already maybe I went out of the depression, but then it turned again and I started to have again bad thoughts, this whole took ca 10 minutes).

 

I dont know, but there I clearly saw that this what I am now, it is not me.

 

But I dont know, if I am able to wait for so long until something changes, it goes so slowly, mostly nothing nothing at all changes, and my mother makes quite a lot of pressure on me that I should take something so that I can function and take care of the children.

 

What at the moment always stays is this rage. But now I think maybe it was not so good to updose, but when not I have these surges of crying the whole time. And you can really hide it at work. Everybody thinks you are nuts.

[WinningThrough]

Hi Martina. I've read through some of your thread. I've seen your name on other threads and keep meaning to say hello. So here I am! I'm sorry you've had such a dreadful time. These terrible thoughts and feeling will go away in time. Take care.

[Fresh]

Thankyou Martina.    I'm going to read your whole thread tomorrow.

 

It sounds to me like updosing was a very sensible thing to do.  

If that helps to  decrease sobbing spells and thoughts of harming yourself or your children , that's better , right?

i hope you continue to give the updose at least 4 days before going down , so you can see if 50mg let's you function

better at work and at home.

 

Those are my thoughts ,  Fresh

[ten0275]

martina, hi.

 

 

 

Hello Dave, I was reading your post. I think we must come from another planet, by you the symptoms come and hurrily go. By me the symptoms come and make themselves only more and more comfortable. I dont know.  It is sad but surely I am happy for you. Martina

 

nooooo.... same planet. we are both martians. you are forgetting one very, very important piece of information. you began withdrawing from your medication 11/2014 - 4+ MONTHS ago. i began withdrawing from my medication in 2012 - nearly 3 YEARS ago. i have had a lot of healing in the meantime. so now when symptoms come, they are terrible, but they are not like they were. 

 

do not be mistaken, martina. when i was in the 4, 5, 6 month range of withdrawal - where you are now - my symptoms were making themselves very comfortable. for what seemed an eternity then, my life was hell on earth. literally hell. flames and all. but with patience, it changed. every time i tried to rush things, everything fell apart again.

 

i can't think of any other way to state the following: you need to hold steady. no changes. none. you are (understandably) pushing so hard to end the thoughts and resume your life as you knew it, but you are actually complicating things with 47.5 here, and then 50 there. your nervous system is BEGGING you to stop shaking it.

 

rhi made a suggestion in my thread to me - she prompted me to consider a hold for 6 months to a year. i am thinking VERY hard about this. trust me, i have had enough of these crappy drugs. and i am almost there. but i am not going to let my impatience (and i have a ton of it) to be done mess everything up for me. i may in fact hold the way rhi proposed.

 

if you windowed after upping to 50mg - i would hold right there until you start feeling relief. i'm not talking days, i am talking weeks - minimum. that is my best advice.

 

i had to do it.

 

and listen - you may not have these thoughts every step of the way as you taper, martina. i think you are assuming that you will. you may find that you can stabilize if you stop messing around. i'm not having the thoughts any more. i haven't for quite some time. and i am still on the drugs. the thoughts stopped when i stabilized.

 

i hope this makes sense. 

 

side note: i am reading a that contains a lot of austrian history, particularly about post world war II. pretty neat country you reside in.

 

hang in there.

 

dave

[Martina23]

I meant you from some planet, and me some other planet, like you are from Mars and me  from I don´t know  Jupiter. Maybe it was not understable. I am sorry my English is not so good, but it is also not so important

[ten0275]

no no, i totally understand you. and i am saying i don't think we are different at all. both from mars! ha! your english is just fine. your withdrawal techniques however may need a little fine-tuning

 

hold, hold, hold and hold.... stabilize.... hold, hold, hold and hold....

[Martina23]

Yes, I like Austria. I am Slovak from origin, but I always wanted to live in Vienna. So I moved and live here already for 5-6 years. Austria has very nice nature, very good for skiing or going to the forest, very clean water. And Vienna is centre for Opera, I think from one magazin it was rated the city with the biggest living quality from all the world (the ratings are always made for expats - the people who go on assignment to the other countries what they should expect).

[Martina23]

Actually I am thinking now I pity my friends so very much. Every morning, afternoon and evening I call them that my brain is totally damaged and the only way out is to commit suicide. They are so patient and always tell me I have still life before me. I do not envy me, as my thoughts are totally catastrophic and I suffer under them  a lot. My mother always think I should take medicine and I dont know how to manage this without. I seriously don´t know, without children I could imagine, with them really hardly . But even in this case in my hell moments I think how my friends can endure this always to reassure me that there is still some life before me.

[Martina23]

Yesterday there was not a small window at all. The two days before each day there was something. I think the windows start by me at 47,5 mg. It is only hard to endure the waves.

 

My boss wanted to help asked her husband who is a psychotherapist to take me as a patient. He meant it is not a good idea as it could be supposed that we have with my boss some "close relationship" which in big companies is not very good. So he recommended me some other woman who might be quite good.

 

I decided that when I am not anymore so good as a human being, than I will at least try to earn a lot of money so that my children who are now with my mother have everything what they need.

 

My life I still can not even imagine, there are so many nice things. I could dream to find some beautiful man and go with him for holiday to Monaco, there is such a nice see and palms, and everybody is dressed in white and a lot of people have coctails and yachts, but with a damaged brain there is nothing from this possible. As I can enjoy anything when my brain only hates and wants to hit everyone. I can not think that in 2-3 years it would not be, it is now, so it for me permanent. This Lyrica is also such a bad stuff. I really think there nothing changes and so what for a sense has my life? My life has lost all his sense. Yesterday I actually thought if I did not have such a bad brain, I would even want to have some day a new child. I like children very much. They are so funny and they give one the feeling that he is loved. Ach jo, I can not really take it ok, I mean these raging fits actually for no reason, hating everyone for no reason, intrusive thoughts and violence for no reason. That is not me. I like this film  Havana with Robert Redford and Lena Olin. I would like also to have once such a romance but I can imagine it only with the intact brain. So that is for the dreams.

[Martina23]

I can not really complain on benzo-belly. Today I had a spinach and also an ice-cream. I dont really wonder that my body can not heal as I think it is only busy with processing the food :-)

[Cdav]

Martina, like Dave said, you've been in withdrawal for 4 months, that is a very short time, this doesn't mean you will not recover, on the contrary, healing is taking place. As with your PGAD, it took time to go away, this will go away too. You will find a great man with or without the affected brain. The thought that life is over is false, I also have that thought when I'm feeling extremely bad, but it's not true. 

 

You'll have windows. Just keep being patient

[Martina23]

Yesterday after long time I felt again my PGAD, I think the body does not like very much the increasing the dose, if it continues today I have to go back on the lower dose. On the lower dose I had also a window, but I had also more problems to manage. I have still such a violent ideas after waking up, even if I went back to 50 mg. These violent ideas are for me very distressing, I feel like a monster. What I find also distressful, that yesterday I tried to imagine in my thoughts people and my children, and there was nothing. Everything black. I am a bit scared from this all. Most from these violent images. I am afraid this Lyrica destroyed my brain.

[LoveandLight]

Sorry Martina..I'm totally sure you will heal..you were not on it for long. I really like how you talk about films and stuff..I can't enjoy these things now but I still like hearing about stuff that I used to enjoy if that makes sense.

[Martina23]

Thank you LoveandLight, I hope I heal. But actually it does not interest me so much anymore. It takes already too long. The most important thing is that the children would be ok. I will bring today my mother money so that they have everything they need.

 

I am not such a big fighter. I lose the motivation always very soon.

 

But it is nice that you also like films. This film which I wrote about before "Havana" this is really the best romantic film I have even seen. And it is also intelligent - I mean the dialogues. And yes, Robert Redford looks there also very solid.  In this time he was still young. And I like that it is about Havana Cuba. In some way I like more less developed countries that too refined ones.

 

It is like if you want to paint someone and there is one totally perfect person and the other not so perfect maybe with a ponting nose or pain expression in the fain. I would like to draw the second one as you can story behind the person on her face and her character. It is not superficial, I hope you know what I mean.

 

But the film you should see. It is really good for dreaming.

[LoveandLight]

Martina, I have brain fog, I don't know what you mean lol but will re-read later. I like psychological thrillers ATM. Films like this I do like as it doesn't remind me of daily life which I cannot relate to right now.

[Martina23]

Psychological thrillers I can not see now as they remind me of my illness. Loveandlight, hopefully you are better like me. I am dreadful now. I am not sure if I would not have to take some medicaments. These bad thoughts eat me alive.