WatchingTV426--withdrawing from Zoloft, miserably

[ang]

Hello watching tv, and hubby.

 

I went off zoloft once,   after other meds,    then successufully reinstated it  (yes getting off the devils tic taks, that horrific efexxor...never go there! Ever, ever....... ends in divorce, and the bankruptcy courts   ................................ Unless dose is 75 mg and no more, then it apparently doesnt do its 2nd drug thing.).

 

In my wide experience of drug effects (being a guinea always, of course?).

 

I can not tolerate valium, sends me psycho.  thus my three weeks as an inovultary patient.....   Anyway I digress......

 

Temazepam works (weird, as it is also a benzo)...  no I never became addicted to it, thank god!

 

Seroquol works well for me as a sedative.  Try no more than 25mg.  Try half a 25mg tablet  (yes you tell the doctors, cause they doont know what to do, do they?)..   Then you will know if it works or not.  WE ALL NEED SLEEP.   My saviour, but remember, we are all different.

 

Seroquol has been used on people up to doses of 1500mg!  Horrific and appalling................ only at doses above 100mg or so 200mg does it become an anti-psychotic.   To me a small dose, just calms my brain,  and I also get the  munchies (otherwise I wouldnt eat, I dont eat all day, then I eat after my 25mg seroquol), and then I go to sleep.

 

Yes, I play with seroquol dosage, whatever I am trying, I know that it counteracts the ****, and allows me to sleep.  No sleep + major panic!

 

Hugs and I feel for you both, you are a wonderful husband, good luck to you both.

[Hopefull]

Hi watching tv 426,

I feel for you and what you are going through. Be strong and you will get there. 14 months since zolof destroyed me as a person, I am better then I was. You will get better too. I hardley slept and was given Seroquel and Mirtazapine. Quit cold turkey experienced weird symptoms and together with Mirtz, it made me extremely tired. I would not recommend adding anymore drugs to the mix. I am not an expert in regards to reinstatement. I want you to know that it gets better as the time passes by. Best wishes, ☺

[ang]

If you need to buy seroquol at 25mg, and live in australia, say she is bipolar, then it goes thru to the regulators, and gets covered at a cheaper cost....   How ironic?   Or you can get 100mg cheaply, but hard to cut.

god bless the marketing of these drug pushers... ie pharmaceutical companies  

[ang]

Oh, I meant to write about Mirtazipine.    It is apparently  "rocket fuel" to kick start everything else.   Dont go there if you can avoid it.  If a psychiatrist told me this, must be really, really evil stuff.

 

Yeah been on that too, but somehow, by the grace of god,  remembered to give it up first......

[mammaP]

If you need to buy seroquol at 25mg, and live in australia, say she is bipolar, then it goes thru to the regulators, and gets covered at a cheaper cost....   How ironic?   Or you can get 100mg cheaply, but hard to cut.

god bless the marketing of these drug pushers... ie pharmaceutical companies  

Ange please do not recommend more drugs here, WTV is in a very sensitive state and we are trying to help her stabilise. Throwing more drugs into the mix is not helpful. 

[luv2knit]

If you are confused by all the suggestions, listen to Alto. She is the expert in this area!

 

Please let her know we are all praying for her!

[Altostrata]

WatchingTV, did you decrease your Zoloft dose?

[wantrelief]

WT,

 

I am so so sorry you are feeling so horribly.  We all care about you and are worried about you.   If you or your husband could please let us know how you are doing when you get a chance.  I am thinking about you guys and hoping you are at least getting some relief from the awful symptoms you have been experiencing.

[WatchingTV426]

This is hubby. Don't have time to give all the details. Thursday, Friday, and Saturday were very dark times - some of the worst days of our lives. But we are through it and she hasn't had any bad akathisia attacks/suicide talk since Saturday evening. Wanted to update everyone because I know you care and are worried for her (thank you for that, truly). I'll work to give more updates later. Thank you.

[wantrelief]

Thank you so much for taking the time to update us. It is really good to hear that things have gotten better since Saturday evening.  I hope things continue to improve.  You guys have been on my mind a lot so again I appreciate your taking the time to write.

[LoveandLight]

Good to hear

[Altostrata]

Did WatchingTV decrease her Zoloft dosage?

[Ever]

Thankyou very much for updating us.  Fingers crossed.   XXX

[imac]

Hi WTV AND HUSBAND, my heart is breaking for you both. I'm so sorry for what you're going through. This brings back immense emotions for me as I just spent 3 years going through what you are going through right now because of my ct. I wanted to add my 2 cents. The last drug I was on was Zoloft. I tapered fast ( in over a month) from 75 mg. to 12.5 mg and held that for 4 months then dropped it.( I finally felt stable enough but didn't realize this dose too was too high to ct) I was given Zoloft when my PAXIL pooped out ( a straight switch) and I never felt good on Zoloft ( we tried for 6 months to stablize me) My doc kept upping my dose and the higher I went the worse I felt. After years of WD and observation and experience and research, I now strongly feel that my brain was in wd already from the PAXIL pooping out and switching my meds had added even more chaos to my brain. I became incredibly sensitized so each time I increased the doses my akathisia and suicide ideation got worse. i finally resolved to taper. The lower I got the better I felt but what I didn't realize was I tapered fast so it would come back to bite me.

I have reinstated once in the past for a ct. I tapered PAXIL in a couple of months and as per my docs suggestion I switched to Prozac ( exactly what was mentioned here that doctors say is a good idea and are completely wrong) on the last leg of that then stopped the low Prozac dose after about a month. I was completely fine for 4 months and hit acute WD literally over night one day and ended up in the psych ward. I'm telling you this because when I reinstated, it was back to my last drug ( PAXIL) at therapeutic dose ( 20mg) and it actually took me 3 months to stablize. Not a week or a few weeks. I was still in hell like your wife for up to 3 months. I fully stablized after 3 months but then pooped out 6 months later which then I was switched to Zoloft. Once I came off the Zoloft at 12.5 mg I hit WD within a month. I have never touched a med since then. I am now almost 3.5 years off meds and only just started to stablize and feel better at 3 years off. I'm telling you this because when you ct and or fast taper you can be in for absolute hell ( total understatement) for even years. I wanted to point out my difference of my RI which was hell,but 3 months and my ct which was hell of 3 years. I think you and your wife need to resign to the fact that this hell she is in right now could be longer than a few weeks. I'm not trying to be the bearer of bad news but setting the expectation may soften the blow ( in your case I hope and pray it's only a few weeks at most) I've read the entire thread and my gut feeling as well as my own experience is your wife is in WD, not a bad reaction to RI. I know of one other who RI but to a different drug. She stablized about 4 months later. She still went through the WD patterns of waves and windows from the drug she pooped out on and ct'd but it was so much less severe and tolerable because she somewhat stablized on the RI. This allowed her to slowly taper the RI at 10% intervals. It's taken her almost 4 years but she is down to about 1mg right now and doing just fine.

In my opinion at this point I would absolutely not add a single other drug to the mix ever again and I would hold the drug and wait well over a month even ( but I am not a mod) I personally would have RI at 25-50 mg. like she originally did. it's somewhat closer to a therapeutic dose but still low enough. Zoloft doses go up to 200 so 50 mg is only about an equivalent to 10-15mg of PAXIL. 12.5 mg is equivalent to approximately 5-7mg of PAXIL ( this is what I CT'd off). The reality is that your wife's brain is in chaos ( not due to her fault at all) and may be for a long time. But may also feel some relief soon from the ri. If I could go back and change what I did to avoid the 3 years of living hell I would have RI and stuck with it for months before making any other changes in order to confuse my Brain even more.

Good luck to you both.

[Wildflower0214]

Thank you so much for the update. I am praying for her and thinking of you all.

 

Please update us again soon.

[luv2knit]

Thanks very much for the update. We do care. Please keep us updated as you can.

[WatchingTV426]

Hi all, this is hubby. She tried to get on her but it was causing too much anxiety. Bunch of updates. She's thinking of all you and hope you're well.

 

Today is the first time I've been back to work.

 

Akathisia got so bad and she was so suicidal that it became medicate or take back to hospital and be admitted. She really really didn't want to be admitted (nor did i for that matter). In the face of death drugs became tolerable to her. Thursday, Friday and Saturday were some of the worst days of our lives. The worst worst time was Friday night, overnight, and into Saturday. On a lark in desperation reached out to Dr. Shipko. He actually called back which was great of him. His suggestion was basically to bomb the akathisia into oblivion with high doses of valium. Her regular doctor wanted to try lorazepam and we decided to try that first since it was more conservative.

 

It became really clear to us, and remains clear to us, that the zoloft is what took her horrible withdrawal and made it SO SO MUCH WORSE. And that it was the reinstatement of the Z that caused the akathisia and also the complete insomnia. She reinstated at 25mg one day, (then everyone said do 12.5), did 12.5 for 6 days, 25mg for 1 day,  then 6.25 1 day.  As more Z built up in her system the akathisia, insomnia and general condition all worsened and worsened.

 

Today is day 4 off the zoloft again. We really hope we didn't make the w/d worse by reinstating. She has taken 1mg lorazepam to sleep at night. has been helping. One night she tried to not take that atavan at night and just take the benadryl but it happened again that she dozed for a second then woke in a panic and that led to about an hour of akathisia (no suicide talk). took a lorazepam and when that kicked in she slept.

 

Shes been sleeping well on the lor. These past couple days have been exponentially better than the akathisia days. shes had anxiety to varying degrees and depression to varying degrees. We've, for all intents and purposes, moved into her parents house and have a lot of help. she's undergone a major trauma and is still undergoing antidepressant w/d on top of that but we are very very hopeful that the very worst (the suicidal akathisia) is behind us and that she is on an upward trend. we know it might take a long time but we hope that the general trend (allowing for good and bad days) is upwards now.

 

Thank you very much for all your prayers and thoughts and help.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

So this is the combination of drugs she is taking?

 

lorazepam (ativan)

topamax

deplin

diphenhadramine (benadryl)

 

So the reaction between all of them seems to point to benadryl not being good in combination with other drugs and she might want to keep the use of it to a very bare minimum:

 

The drugs interactions checker says this:

 

Interactions between your selected drugs

diphenhydramine ↔ topiramate

Applies to: Benadryl (diphenhydramine), Topamax (topiramate)

Topiramate can cause increased body temperature and decreased sweating, and these effects may be even greater when combined with medications like diphenhydrAMINE. Heat stroke and hospitalization may occur in some people, especially in warm weather and during vigorous exercise. Children are more likely to experience this problem. Talk with your doctor before using these medications together. Drink plenty of fluids during warm weather and when exercising. Call the doctor if you have decreased sweating or a fever. You may also experience drowsiness, dizziness, or lightheadedness when taking these medications together. Avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

 

lorazepam ↔ diphenhydramine

Applies to: Lorazepam Intensol (lorazepam), Benadryl (diphenhydramine)

Using LORazepam together with diphenhydrAMINE may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

 

 

Thank you for updating us and it seems as though the reinstatement of any more sertraline is off the table permanently. This is good to know as it will make concentrating on the recovery from it a priority.

[dalsaan]

Thank you for updating us. I'm very glad that WTV seems to have turned a corner. I'm also very glad that she has an understanding and supportive family

 

Dalsaan

[Fresh]

Hi WTV/husband , I've just finishes reading your whole thread . . . wow , I'm so sorry you're both going through this.

 

I had akathisia for many months and did not sleep for six or seven weeks.    At this time I was writing lots of things down , what I ate , what time I woke up etc.

I would lay quietly for as long as I could before getting up to pace again.   I can see looking back that my sleeps became longer , at first 10-15 minutes  once or twice a night , gradually extending to around 20 minutes , then 45-50 minutes a few times a night.

Although her body is deeply exhausted , the akathisia makes laying down impossible a lot of the time.

 

I suspect from your thread that the akathisia had already started before you reinstated Zoloft.    There are several references to it's symptoms , including feelings of dread and SI.    Here's the thing - people in this situation don't really WANT to die , but they cannot possible imagine having to live like this for ever.  There may be a thread on akathisia on tis site . . .   it explains a lot.   So I guess I'm saying it would have gotten this bad anyway , and it's not because of the ri with Zoloft.

Just my thoughts , and want you to know my akathisia went away.

 

Best wishes  , Fresh  

[WatchingTV426]

UPDATE & QUESTIONS ABOUT LAMICATL (and other drugs) -

 

(hi all, this is hubby again)

 

After the suicidal akathisia stopped two weeks ago we've had various ups and downs - last friday, saturday and sunday (a week ago) she was very depressed, hopeless, saying suicidal things. Then monday and tuesday were better (she was still miserable but way better than the prior two days and also had no hopeless/suicidal talk). Monday and tuesday had little depression, more anxiety. Wednesday morning actually was going pretty well again but then the anxiety ramped up. Then Thursday and Friday and now this morning the depression is back bad and so is the hopeless/suicidal talk. We feel strongly that at least part of why these days are so bad is because of PMS because she's always had bad emotional symptoms during pms (though not depression) (and not while she was on Z)

 

She's trying to find a therapist who is versed in "old-school" CBT - with homework etc at the recommendation of her psychiatrist. We're also getting in with a walsh trained nutrient therapist near us (and we have an appt with mensah medical in a month as well). We're hopeful that these things can help underlying anxiety issues and therefore help her entire situation.

 

When she is feeling less horrible (read: not desperately depressed and suicidal) we are much of the mind to hold the course and understand there will be ups and downs but we just need to give her brain time to heal and we need to do whatever we can to help her in the meantime (therapy, nutrient therapy, meditation etc.) BUT when she's feeling so bad as now, saying these horrible things, we are all much more like - is there nothing she can take to help?! And much more open to taking an additional drug to help. Her psychiatrist is well meaning but doesn't have experience with this type of situation.

 

She had that horrible reaction to reinstating Z so we are looking at SSRI's as off the table. Even though one thing her psychiatrist suggested is reinstating Z again at a very very low dose. (We are two weeks out of ending the reinstatement which had lasted 8 days and roughly 8 weeks from when she ended her taper)

 

The Dr. Healy article that is on this board mentions tricyclics (and her dr. has read that and has considered them) as a possibility to help but we are leery of these because what if they cause the same horrible reaction as the Z (because they are serotogenic). And also, these are a nightmare to come off of eventually (my wife said that Dalsaan is struggling with mirtazapine taper).

 

One thing that has been on the table as a possibility (maybe Healy mentioned it) is Lamicatl (lamotrigine). We know Alto has experience and have read about how she takes a tiny dose and changes doses in tiny increments. We're afraid of steven-johnsons syndrome - especially since her system is so fragile/sensitive. We are worried about coming off of it eventually (though, if her suicidal talk persists you have to get to a point where its better to get on something now and then worry about tapering later - especially since now we are armed with proper tapering knowledge).

 

Questions about lamicatal

• are people taking it to just help sleep?
• are people taking it to help depression?
• are people taking it for both reasons?
• (she's never had problems with depression - so this depression is 99% likely caused by w/d) - can lamictal help with w/d depression, as opposed to non-w/d depression??
• Our Dr. thinks 25 mgs to start is a small dose but is supportive of her starting on a tiny dose (like 2mg) - but he doesn't have knowledge/experience the way Alto's dr does - does this mean she shouldn't do it? We have no idea how to find a Dr. with experience in this. even though we're close to a city with a lot of psychiatrists etc it seems impossible to find someone who respects ad w/d and also has experience treating a nervous system going through it. The few we've been able to actually speak to don't think w/d lasts this long.

 

Given everything what do people think is a cautious but intelligent next step??? (with lamicatl or otherwise) Her dr. has expressed the worry that if we don't do something and then we end up having to take her back to the ER those doctors are not going to respect w/d whatsoever and will pump her full of ssri's etc.

 

(i'm going to go now and try to find more lamicatl info on the board - forgive us if these questions are covered elsewhere it's so hard to scour this board for all information because of the time necessary to do so and bc of dealing with everything in our life so i hope people will be willing to repeat themselves in this thread)

 

thanks so much

[Fresh]

Good to hear from you guys.     

Try looking in Symptoms and Self-care , "Lamictal to calm symptoms" .   Started by tezza 7 Feb. 2013 , last post by Altostrata. 

Your doctor is correct saying that if you go to ER your wife will be medicated without your input or consultation. 

 

Best wishes ,  

[Altostrata]

I've described titration of lamotrigine in detail here One theory of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome

 

Stevens-Johnson syndrome occurs when dosages are increased too rapidly. Minute adjustments in very small dosages well under 25mg shouldn't be a problem. If any kind of rash results from taking a drug, it should be discontinued as soon as possible.

[Ssriwarrior]

Any updates? Thinking of her and your whole family...

[nz11]

Any updates?