Moonlitelotus: introduction/body zaps/questions

[ladybug]

One of the best pieces of advice I have ever been given on a WD forum has been "When you don't know what to do, then don't do anything at all." Your own signature says "Start low if you reinstate and stay there for a while" and that is some great advice! You've made a lot of changes lately so just stick tight with your decision to reinstate a tiny amount and try not to monitor every little sensation and symptom you have. Believe me I know it's hard as I do the same thing! 1mg of Lexapro is equal to 2mg of Prozac I believe, so you are trying out a much smaller amount than when you had the bad reaction. That's a good thing. Just try your best not to panic about every symptom and make another change (I know it's hard). Many people fall into this trap and end up making a bad situation worse. One day is too early to judge any reinstatement so just give it some more time. You're gonna be ok, you will get through this.

 

Oh, and I'm sure the Kirkland meal replacement shake is fine. Just make sure you drink them slowly. I learned that the hard way!

[Petunia]

Moonlight,

Ladybug has given you some good advice.  There is some discussion about nausea in this thread:

 

Digestive problems: Nausea, Diarrhea, Bloating, GERD

[Moonlitelotus]

Currently I keep getting cold and then getting shakey chills but then I get too warm so I try to not be so bundled up then I get cold again. Even when I'm not that cold I have chills or shiver. I haven't had this before really. It started today. I just took a hot bath and was fine, in the bath I felt ok. I did take my prozac 3 1/2 hours ago. I don't know...I'm not having anxiety tho. I did eat a little breakfast granola bar thing and had some water that was cold. I'm just getting cold easily. Seems like eating sets things off. Maybe the water was too cold. Not feeling very sure about this reinstatement. New symptoms don't seem to be a good sign??????

[Fresh]

It's the "hots and colds"  Moonlite ,  "temperature disregulation".      I just read another thread where the poster thought his symptoms are from eating , so he stopped eating for 24 hours.   It will come whether you eat or not.   Just another wd thing.

[Moonlitelotus]

Really? They thought it was from eating too?? It seems to happen after eating is all. I haven't been able to eat much today. I have lost 2 pounds since the 4th. I have lost about 10 pounds total this month due to eating issues from either heart burn or lack of appetite from trying to reinstate. I needed to lose some weight because I gained 20 pounds from weaning off prozac and not being active and feeling hungry all the time. I don't want to lose too much weight.

[JanCarol]

Oh Moonlite you've been on and off and on again and off again.  But you are young, you are unlikely to have permanent damage.

 

In the 80's, when Prozac came out, we described it as "finger in the brain" drug.  ALL of these antidepressants are like that.

 

What you have been doing is putting the finger in, wiggling it, and pulling it out again, then putting it back in and wiggling and pulling it out again.  Rinse and repeat.  And then wondering why you feel awful!

 

Another way to describe this is "scrambled brains."

 

You are wise to just wait, just wait, just wait.  Up to 3 months, then re-evaluate.  Then wait 6 months, and see what you think.  Then a year.  Then 3 years.  If you just hold from now for 3 years, you will be better off than you are now.  If at any time you feel well enough to taper, then do - but as Fresh said, "when in doubt, do nothing."

 

You are not going to learn anything in a day, a week, a month.  Especially not thrashing about and making constant changes.  Please, post your symptoms, keep a log of them.  They will change.  When you look back after a year's time, you will understand better.  

 

Be patient.  Hold still, wait.  That's the only way you are going to learn to be still enough, silent enough, to hear what your body needs.

 

(BTW, i can't take Kirkland meal replacement - because the dairy upsets me.  Maybe you have some food sensitivities?  Look at Petu's link, I'm sure there is lots of information there)

[Moonlitelotus]

Jancarol,

 

Now that I have stuck my finger in my brain again are you saying to leave it that way for now? I'm not sure. I don't want to do the wrong thing here. Whether that be stopping again or staying on.

[Moonlitelotus]

I'm just curious.. I've heard it been said that it's pretty much impossible to stay in a dark room all the time to let the nervous system recover and to avoid too much stimuli. But if you did stay silent in a dark room with little to no stimuli most of the time would it heal the nervous system faster or does it not matter? I Just had that random thought pop in my head...

[Moonlitelotus]

Initially had a good reaction to the .5mg prozac but now it seems I am feeling worse. I can't hardly eat and I've been having the chills all night off and on. I just had some nausea kick in but it seems to have gone away for the moment. I ate something not sure if that helped it as I felt nauseous a little bit after too. I can't sleep not because I'm not tired but because I keep getting chills and was starving. I ate some apple sauce and another nutrition shake. I have not had anxiety tonight just keep shivering like I'm cold even if im not really cold. I had some leg restlessness earlier in the night. Seems like reinstatment is not working because it is causing increased symptoms. Not sure whether to stop or keep going because I don't want to be inconsistent but I don't want to irritate things further. Not feeling rage or suicidal at this point just uncomfortable physical symptoms.

[Moonlitelotus]

And I just threw up...

[Moonlitelotus]

Has anyone felt horrible reinstating but push they it anyway abd the ultimately started feeling better or is this just flat out not going to work?

[Moonlitelotus]

I don't even have the option to reinstate and taper anymore. I am just going to have to suffer until it's over... I feel hopeless. I know just cope and deal with the symptoms...and I did this to myself. Drugs aren't going to fix withdrawal at this point. I reread my thread. Can someone answer me at least about the dark room no stimuli thing?

[Moonlitelotus]

I was reading about ways to help the brain repair itself and go into neurogenesis and in the article it said how antidepressants can create neurons and neurogenisis. But how is that the case when they down regulate receptors. I believe we are trying to unregulate the receptors by doing healthy things to rebuild the cells and induce neurogenesis. But it doesn't make sense to me that an antidepressant does this when they are obviously the reason we are in this in the first place. Seems like they do the opposite. I just thought that was interesting. Maybe misleading information. It also talked about infrared light therapy to stimulate neurogenesis. They use it for those with Alzheimer's. Has anyone ever tried that?

[Petunia]

I'm just curious.. I've heard it been said that it's pretty much impossible to stay in a dark room all the time to let the nervous system recover and to avoid too much stimuli. But if you did stay silent in a dark room with little to no stimuli most of the time would it heal the nervous system faster or does it not matter? ...

 

No one has done any studies to find out if this is true, so I can't answer your question.  But from my own experience, there were times when I felt better by being in a quiet, darkened environment, so I tried to do this as much as it was possible.

 

Try it, see how it makes you feel, does it reduce the severity of your symptoms?  The idea is to find non-drug ways to manage/endure uncomfortable symptoms as the nervous system takes the time it needs to recover.

[Moonlitelotus]

I've spent most of today in my room with it completely dark and quiet. I think it helped somewhat but I don't know. Where did the idea even come from? Is it that the nervous system needs to not have a bunch of things bombarding it constantly to heal? Medications, loud noises, bright lights...etc.

[Moonlitelotus]

This article I found is very interesting and informative. It talks about sensory deprivation benefits. It seems to be pretty much similar to staying in a dark quiet room only sensory deprivation chambers are more extreme than this. It also ties in Epsom salt baths as that is what is used when people float in these sensory deprivation chambers. So it would seem to me that spending time reducing the senses by spending time in a dark room or even taking a Epsom salt bath in the dark and quiet would be beneficial to the healing process. What do you guys think?

 

http://leilahpublications.com/sensory/

[Moonlitelotus]

I decided not to continue with the reinstatment and once again am not being consistent. I don't mean for this. But I don't think the reactions I'm having to trying to reinstate is a sign that it is working as I feel much worse when I try reinstating. So unfortunately I guess I have to stop and realize I exhausted my opinions and will have to recover drug free. This is going to be a long road. Please someone tell me I'm gonna make it. :/

[Petunia]

Please would you update your signature Moonlight.  We need the date added to the latest reinstatement, and that you have now stopped it.  I'm also wondering how often you take xanax, when was the last time?

 

You will make it, we all recover eventually, some people take longer.  My guess is that when you start understanding what we are saying here, and you stop destabilizing your nervous system with constant drug changes, then your recovery process will begin.

 

Do more of the things which make you feel better, calmer, more relaxed, including epsom salt baths in the dark, or try candles, do whatever works for you.  There's no guarantee that it will make you recover faster, but it will make the experience less unpleasant.

[Moonlitelotus]

I was recovering before I tried reinstating I just know it. I don't think that I've completely erased all my progress right? Just delayed the recovery?? I do not take xanax often at all I avoid it at all costs. I took .25mg on the 2nd that was the last time because I was not feeling well and had to fly home from Mexico. Needed to be calm on the plane. Is it bad to take any xanax at all or just should be very limited? I will update the signature.

[Fresh]

Moonlite ,   you're onto day 3 and it sound like it hasn't been any worse since you started the reinstatement of Prozac 0.5mg.    You even had one good window , right?

 

To give it a fair go , why don't you consider continuing?   

[Moonlitelotus]

I can't my system already feels more destabilized at the moment. I can't even fall asleep right now. And if I do start to fall asleep my body doesn't seem to like it and starts getting kinda shakey. Been up since last night. Since I've not taken a 3rd dose I don't feel good but I feel better than after I took it yesterday. If I keep taking it its just going to get worse and worse like with Lexapro. Same symptoms.:/ I couldn't hardly eat today.

[Moonlitelotus]

Woke up feeling nervous but definitely got a good night sleep. Finally. I'm mostly feeling nervous about what I've done to myself now..I feel stupid, frustrated, and disappointed. How am I going to get thru this... Will I get worse over the next few months or better? Does sleeping a lot help the nervous system recover? I feel like I could sleep all day today.

[LoveandLight]

Are you able to sleep all day? No commitments? If that's what your body is telling you to do, maybe do it

[Moonlitelotus]

Yes I can. I don't have many commitments in my life during this time. My mom is allowing me to live with her during this healing process. She's a good mom.

[LoveandLight]

Very good sleep all day then.

[Moonlitelotus]

Ooooo really interesting thing I just heard on a video about neurogenisis that everyone might find really interesting. It takes 2-3 weeks to build a new neuron so that's probably why it takes so long to recover from antidepressants because one neuron at a time is being rebuilt every 2-3weeks. Depending on how long you were on the AD and what dosage would mean that you would have either more or less to repopulate. Which most of us already knew but I wasn't sure if anyone has talked about how long it takes to rebuild a neuron. I thought that was really interesting. So just think every 2-3weeks we have a new neuron built by our brain and are closer to recovery!

 

Here is the article on some things that help create neurogenisis. Some things in the article are controversial like the use of marijuana and magic mushrooms. I would be leery to try any of that during withdrawal but it is interesting the video on the use of magic mushrooms to rebuild neurons in the hippocampus.

 

http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2013/03/05/11-ways-to-grow-new-brain-cells-and-stimulate-neurogenesis/

[Moonlitelotus]

I really wish that reinstatment would have worked for me to get off these meds slower or found this site sooner. But it was too late. I hope I didn't make myself worse. I'm really afraid of that. I'm really really afraid. I have dizziness again which had went away. :/ I'm frustrated with myself. I keep trying to reassure myself that it's going to be ok but I'm having a hard time. I am giving myself anxiety which I don't need. I'm trying to control it. I'm scared the withdrawal is going to kill me.

[Moonlitelotus]

Alto or any veterans on here... Have you seen people who have failed reinstatment still recover? Also I need to apply for disability of I'm going to be dealing for this for a few years. Where do I do that at for in the United states?

[Petunia]

If you are able to sleep all day, that's good.  Its good for you and it also possibly indicates that your nervous system is not too badly disrupted.  Most people in acute withdrawal have difficulty being able to go to sleep and stay asleep.

 

Although dizziness is unpleasant, its not going to harm you, it will improve over time and withdrawal can't kill you.  Its good that you are able to stay with your mom during this time, many people don't have that kind of support.

 

Read through    Recovery success stories    where you may find some stories of people who have recovered after not being able to reinstate.  I'm not in the US, so I will leave it to others to help you with the disability question.  You will recover in time and it sounds to me like you are starting to accept the fact that its going to take some time, this is a big step in the right direction

[Moonlitelotus]

Thank you petunia! Yes I am usually able to sleep at night the only time I have had sleep disturbance is when I try to reinstate. Then I can't sleep and or eat. I have not slept all day but I got a good night sleep last night in fact I often go into REM sleep and so I am getting all my sleep cycles. Last night or this morning before waking up I had started lucid dreaming or something weird. It was like I was really there I was walking through the woods or something. I used or something a lot lol. It was something :-p today I have stayed relaxed except a couple times I started feeling doomed but I took a bath with Epsom salt and just calmed myself. I've not really done much today but lay around. I'm still having a hard time eating and getting slight nausea.

[Petunia]

You can find some help with applying for disability here:

 

http://www.disability-benefits-help.org/social-security-disability-locations/washington

[Moonlitelotus]

Yes I am accepting it now. It has been hard to fully accept. I do realize that the more I fight it or get angry or not stay calm the longer it will take me to recover. When I'm upset of course my nervous system is upset too and if it's upset its not healing. So although it won't be easy. Some days will be very hard I'll have to try to stay calm. Now that I look back before I tried reinstating I wasn't in acute withdrawal anymore I was actually in the beginning stages of the waves an windows phase. So I am frustrated with myself that I tried to reinstate. I hope the waves and windows phase will come back soon...

[Moonlitelotus]

I've been losing a lot of weight lately which I think is good as I gained like 25 pounds when I was weaning off prozac. I am wondering if losing extra pounds is beneficial during recovery as I have read some of the medications can still be stored in the fat cells. So of the weight is lost and the chemicals stored are released then would getting as much of it out of your body be helpful? Or is losing weight not good during withdrawal. Does anyone have any ideas about this?

[Pugknows]

Hi Moonlite, I just finished reading your thread. I know how scared you are and you are just desperately looking for concrete verifiable answers so you can do everything humanly possible to help your brain heal quickly. I now have internet and forum OCD LOL. The only truth I have "found" is that there are no answers because everyone's journey is as different as their individual brains. Some heal more linearly, some heal chaotically. Windows and waves are as unpredictable in their frequency and quality when you are experiencing them and you can't see a pattern until you look back on months of them. What made me feel better was reading the recovery stories here and on benzobuddies. I literally have read hundreds of them. They give me hope that I will eventually heal from all this. My brain will heal itself, in spite of all the drugs, the supplements, the anxiety, the lack of food due to nausea and no appetite. My brain is going to heal IN SPITE of me! Your brain is healing underneath all the changes you've made and all of the sleeplessness and lack of food. Your brain is healing now. Petunia has a link to a thread written by Parker on benzo buddies that explains what's going on in our brains in the most simplistic terms. You should read it. It will ease your anxiety. It might get worse before it gets better. It might not. Whatever happens just keep saying, "Bring it on!" Lay down in bed and darken your room and just breathe. Bdtd has a bunch of soothing YouTube video links. Look for her thread or pm her. She is a WD warrior and very compassionate. (((Hugs))). Hunker down. We're all in this foxhole together.

[Pugknows]

Read other people's threads. You will see your own journey through theirs. Even better, you will find yourself getting kindness, prayers and compassion from fellow sufferers who, in the midst of their own pain and anguish, extend themselves to you. You, in turn, will find yourself doing the same for them. It's truly a miracle to witness the best in humankind on this forum. And you are a part of this family now.

[Pugknows]

I will be here for you, as will a bunch of other warriors in recovery. The mods are great and knowledgeable. But there are lots of us who have soaked in a ton of information from them, from this site, from each other and from our own personal journeys and are more than willing to give you hugs, reassurance, encouragement, advice, stories, even laughter. I hear the fear in your posts. There is no need to fear when you aren't alone.