CAM - can it be helpful to manage withdrawal symptoms?

[Meimeiquest]

Ugg, just sent four paragraphs back into electrons. Ended with How will we ever know? Who knows, maybe the low histamine diet is the natural treatment for undermethylation? And yes, my docs and I are very aware of the danger of over-supplementing with zinc. But that is important for anyone reading to know. This is not really a DIY project, lab monitoring is necessary. The docs I saw do not think this protocol helps withdrawal, which they acknowledge can be horrendous. But they think underlying biochemical problems are often mistaken for prolonged withdrawal. Which takes us back to Who Knows.

[Meimeiquest]

Double uggs. The first time went. Sorry!

[Altostrata]

We've discussed Mensah Medical and methylation elsewhere.

 

The low histamine diet is a non-irritating diet exclusion. If your problems arise in gut irritation, it can help -- it's only coincidental that it's low histamine. It includes lots of green veggies, which we know are good for most things.

 

Even Ben Lynch has admitted that methylation issues (whatever the heck they are) might be addressed with green veggies.

 

The low histamine diet or exclusion diets in general are a way to get your body down to ground zero, eliminating most food sources of irritation, allergy, reflux, etc. Conceivably, one might get a better signal from listening to your body when you eliminate all that static, and be able to make subjective decisions about what makes you feel better.

 

meimei, I believe you saw the likelihood that Mensah's might be a trial-and-error approach. (I am glad they didn't have to throw too much at the wall to find something that helped you.) Same with treatment of methylation (if it actually needs treatment) -- it's trial and error, nobody can unravel the meaning of all the test results. (Methylation is an excellent example of something you can measure every which way, end up with a pile of data, and still not know what's going on.)

 

I speak as someone who looked into every corner for many years to deal with my own severe withdrawal syndrome, including MTHFR (I'm heterozygous for the two most common variations), with excellent insurance that enabled me to get a lot of tests and do a lot of experimenting. I live in San Francisco, where every variety of alternative medicine is well represented by people who claim to be top experts.

 

I am happy to recommend treatment modalities in which I have confidence. Orthomolecular medicine is not one of them.

[compsports]

Alto,

 

I just wanted to express my extreme appreciation to you for cautioning people not to get carried away with alternative approaches.   This is a hot button issue for me as one who has been badly burned by these folks whom I feel take advantage of our extreme desperation with mainstream doctors and charge outrageous fees.   Please don't stop doing what you do.

 

CS

[Meimeiquest]

I agree that this is enough discussion. Except I would like to say that, at least in the US, apart from a family history of mental disorders, I think the most likely physical problem people might be facing is leaky guy/gut dysbiosis. I say that because stress can directly cause it as cortisol damages the gut lining, and because our diet (right down to chlorinated water) is so damaging to the natural biome.

[compsports]

Hi Meime,

 

I didn't mean to imply that the discussion should be stopped.   Sorry if I gave that impression. 

[Meimeiquest]

Oh, I didn't mean that in a mean or upset way. It's just complicated and I too would hate to give overly rosy impressions that could lead to people experiencing even more problems. And especially if you are going to do "ortho" get the best practitioner you can find. I believe CAM is a much, much bigger umbrella. And my personal opinion about withdrawal (which is different than healing original problems or physical problems the drugs have caused) is that Alto's theory is the most plausible and most matches my experience, although I haven't experienced it to the level so many others have.

[Altostrata]

Thank you for that vote of confidence, meimei.

 

I agree that our lousy modern diet plus physical inactivity causes us a lot of problems. Add that to medicalization of everyday life and you get much, much too much prescribing of drugs and even surgery.

[ikam]

Fresh, the problem with taking a mixed supplement like you are, is that you don't know which ingredients are reducing your withdrawal symptoms and which ones are making them worse.

 

Apart from the Vitamin E and biotin, I've tried every one of the ingredients in your capsules, separately, which I purchased from iHerb.  I especially wanted the zinc to help because I was hoping my symptoms were in part being caused by too high copper.  But taking extra zinc hasn't made any difference.

 

B6 and P5P both made my sleep much worse, I would sleep, but it was like my brain was too active and I would wake up feeling like I had been studying all night.

 

I was thinking that maybe I have Pyrrole Disorder and the Zinc and B6 would fix it.  Maybe I do have the disorder, but the fact that I'm in protracted withdrawal from antidepressants makes it impossible for me to tolerate the treatment for it at this stage.

 

Vitamin C helps, so I'm still taking it. Cyanocobalamin (B12) and methylcobalamin  both made my withdrawal symptoms worse, as did folic acid, folate and methylfolate (B9).  Niacinamide and Niacin both seemed to help at first, but then stopped.

 

Many people find that the B vitamins are too activating in withdrawal and make symptoms worse.

 

If an Orthomolecular Practitioner doesn't understand withdrawal syndrome, its unlikely they are going to be able to help (with that) and its more likely they will recommend products which will make withdrawal symptoms worse, especially if someone is in protracted withdrawal with a sensitized nervous system.

 

 

My histamine has increased and my copper has decreased in the 10 months I've been treated.

 

 

Withdrawal sometimes causes people to become histamine intolerant, and they find that reducing high histamine foods can sometimes help.  I'm wondering why you are trying to increase histamine.

 

Fresh, please would you start an introduction thread for yourself.

Petu, I have just started a mixed multivitamins and minerals and actually felt worse today. I just read your post. So, I may need to start from some "single products"?

I really don't know how to tackle this, as my immune system is so low.

[bloodrush]

Hi, about diabet, New research say that some kind of diabet can be healed. You have to lost about 25% of body weight, fat most of all, and take  Chrome and Vanadium.... A good friend of mine, got ill with diabet in hospital on antipsychotics. And now after a year he healed from it. He is still a huge dude, but he lost a lot of weight, 108 kilograms now. But he wasn't taking insuline injections, was taking some kind of pills, metformin (don't remember the exact name) Im not expert just give you the information my friends told me, and red some research (about Chrome and Vanadium) Hope I've been useful to somebody. Take Care

[ccb73]

After I was hospitalized for a stupid and cruel psych drug washout trial over two weeks, my cortisol shot up over 100 over all 4 periods on a saliva test.

I was helped with Seriphos, a phospholoridate supplement wish calmed the adrenals.

Yes, after that success I was able to contemplate and get courageous to do withdrawal but the ND was not successful in withdrawal.

I'm doing slow withdrawal and am off 50% over 2 years. I'm having hell and experiencing never yet so many ills.

Of course, if you can't walk, a walker will help you get to work but without a job, there is no work.

Get it?

Edited October 11, 2016 by ChessieCat
removed obscenity

[JanCarol]

ccb73, see:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3782-phosphatydilserine-aka-phosphatidyl-serine-seriphos-or-cortiphos/