Indigo

[indigo]

Thanks Addax. I'll look up "HPA -axis".

I'm doing O.K. .Symptoms come and go but nothing I can't deal with since last micro-drop.

Interesting about the pre- dawn dread because before I went on Prozac,

I felt like that almost all the time. I've heard that people who had chronic abuse as kids ,

(and I certainly fall into that category) actually have  alterations in the brain

from being under stress all the time. I think I read something once about it being related to cortisol.

Know anything about that?

.

[Addax]

I'm glad you can deal with your symptoms, and I guess "okay" isn't a bad place to be. How great that it's managable at .92!

 

know that abuse suffered as a child can absolutely impact brain development, and yes cortisol plays a role in that. The chronic stress associated with child abuse would be like constantly bathing your brain in Cortisol as you grow up. It's adaptive, keeping you on high alert so you can protect yourself. Early and ongoing trauma, like abuse can in fact impact the HPA-axis. It's as if your brain wires itself to help it (and you) survive the abuse. It's a completely normal adaptation to a very abnormal situation, in other words.

 

I've said before that there seems to be a good amount of overlap between symptoms associated with experiencing trauma and symptoms of withdrawal, the cortisol / HPA-axis stuff in particular. It's just an area I'm familiar with, but I'm not a doc or expert, so I'm just kind of theorizing here.

 

Do you do any yoga or meditation? Those are both things that are supposed to be helpful. I downloaded a meditation app in anticipation of beginning my taper again. I haven't used it yet, but I plan to.

 

Again, I'm very glad you're doing "okay" :-)

[indigo]

 Addax, I had been feeling O.K., just the early morning dreads. However last couple of days it

did not let up so been carrying heavy sadness and running a lot self depreciation.

I accept tis as part of the withdrawal process. It's not unbearable but it also not easy.

Rhi,  I've been thinking about your suggestion to dilute because I've been wondering if these fluctuating

withdrawal symptoms might be connected to tiny diffrences in dose. On my one mL syringe I measure

to the same mark but the fuoexetine solution is thicker than water and there might be small variation at the line.

Hard to know if all this WD neuro paranoia.

Because the taste of the solution makes me gag I've been emptying the measured dose from the syringe into

a 000 gelatin cap and swallowing it down right away. Can you think of any reason this would change things?

[Rhiannon]

 Addax, I had been feeling O.K., just the early morning dreads. However last couple of days it

did not let up so been carrying heavy sadness and running a lot self depreciation.

I accept tis as part of the withdrawal process. It's not unbearable but it also not easy.

Rhi,  I've been thinking about your suggestion to dilute because I've been wondering if these fluctuating

withdrawal symptoms might be connected to tiny diffrences in dose. On my one mL syringe I measure

to the same mark but the fuoexetine solution is thicker than water and there might be small variation at the line.

Hard to know if all this WD neuro paranoia.

Because the taste of the solution makes me gag I've been emptying the measured dose from the syringe into

a 000 gelatin cap and swallowing it down right away. Can you think of any reason this would change things?

 

I doubt the gel cap is an issue. Are you rinsing out the syringe and drinking the rinse water? You can be losing enough of the drug to make a difference, if not, given how thick it is. Try to get it all out of there.

 

I personally do like my dilutions for the reason you describe, I find that very small variations in dose affect me.

 

Have you tried dissolving a Prozac tablet? You can make your own liquid that way, and although it will probably taste bad, it might not be as bad as the commercial liquid. Worth a try (shrug)...

[indigo]

Thanks for the steadying feedback Rhi. The wave seems to be subsiding. In the midst of one it's hard to hold perspective. I

I don't drink the water I rinse the syringe with. I can see how that would be a way to be more accurate but taste is too

sickening. I am considering changing back to capsules and dissolving them in water though. The glycerin in the  prozac

solution is a bother. Thanks again. How are you doing with your latest drop?

[Dane22]

Hey indigo. Thanks for the thread. Lots of information here. So much I can identify with. I'm glad you're reporting that the waves are subsiding. The mornings seem to be difficult for me at this time. Sometimes I feel like I have to force myself to do a running start to get moving and motivated. Maybe because its the quietest time of the day? Darkest? I'm alone at that time? Poor sleep? Combo of all of those things? Dunno.

[Addax]

Hey indigo. Just checking in on you. I hope you're feeling well and NorCal's weather has you able to enjoy the outdoors.

[indigo]

Hi everyone. Took a few days off from posting. I'm usually online early mornings

and I'm still dealing with early morning sadness. I'm getting better at steering out

of it. Have to keep reminding myself it's just a brain chemistry thing and nothing 

has really changed since I was feeling fine.

BTW ,there's something I'd like to ask about:

Because  when I was growing up my family were always telling me as I was crazy and 

threatening to send me to a mental insitution, I am very secretive about my emotional 

life and my use of anti-depressants. No one knew I was taking prozac except my husband

and one trusted friend. So now no one except them knows I'm dealing with WD.

It feels isolating and I feel as if I'm in the closet. On one hand I want to avoid being

stigmatized. On the other hand I want to speak up and warn others about the horrors

of AD. Would like to know how open other people are about their withdrawal struggle.

[Fresh]

Hi  Indigo ,   I'm having the same issues after many years of keeping my struggles under wraps.  So much so that I it's taken me 12 months to do an

introduction on here (see Fresh's Fractured Fairytale).    Self-disclosure is a biggie for exactly the reasons you say:  we want to avoid being stigmatized.

 

I've floated the concept past a few old school "friends" on facebook , and I suspect the word "neuro-toxicity" made them nervous.   They don't know what to

say cause they don't know anything about it.

 

I've settled for "I've been very ill for quite a few years , but am getting better now"   for new people I meet , who ask me what I do.  

It's either that or  "I'm between projects"  in a somewhat secretive way , for those I don't want to get into it with.

 

I think it's important to rely on your instincts before sharing.   The last thing folks like us need is to be questioned and not believed.   You'll get good feelings from

those who genuinely want to know more.

 

On another note , I wanted to thank you for your suggestion to another member about having their dog qualified as an emotional support dog.

Me and mine had our second training class today , and I reckon it will take about 6 months for her to pass the test. 

 

Best wishes for your ongoing healing ,  Fresh

[indigo]

Is anyone else wondering if the pilot who it appears deliberately crashed the plane into the French Alps was on anti-depressants?

[direstraits]

yeah,I was wondering about that-I always wonder when I hear about some bizarre event that happens all too frequently nowadays

 

things are so different from when I was younger...or maybe I'm just getting old

[indigo]

David Healey has connected SSRI's to many suicides and sudden mass killings. 

They cause disconnect and block empathy sometimes with horrible consequences.

[indigo]

Just read this in U.K. newspaper The Daily Mail. Seems my hunch is very likely right.

 

"The killer Alps pilot’s boss last night admitted he had slipped through the ‘safety net’ and should never have been flying.

As police removed computer equipment from Andreas Lubitz’s flat, it emerged the 28-year-old fitness fanatic had suffered from depression and ‘burnout’ which had held up his career."

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3013743/Germanwings-pilot-slipped-safety-net-devastating-consequences.html#ixzz3VXXG99Nx

[Songbird]

Is anyone else wondering if the pilot who it appears deliberately crashed the plane into the French Alps was on anti-depressants?

 

It was the first thing I thought of when I saw this on the news.  There was no mention of medication on our TV news reports but from the link you posted it seems that he probably was on meds.

 

"Other possible explanations for Lubitz's actions are that he may have stopped taking his medication so it would not be detected in any medical tests" - this is what I was thinking, he had either just started, stopped, or switched meds, or made a big change in dose.

 

 

[Rhiannon]

Is anyone else wondering if the pilot who it appears deliberately crashed the plane into the French Alps was on anti-depressants?

 

I always wonder that when I hear stories like this. In the US we get those mass shootings and the people who do them are almost always either on some psych med or have just quit taking one. The media usually spin it as "they were off their meds" (like that was the problem, not withdrawal) in those cases.

[Rhiannon]

Just read this in U.K. newspaper The Daily Mail. Seems my hunch is very likely right.

 

"The killer Alps pilot’s boss last night admitted he had slipped through the ‘safety net’ and should never have been flying.

As police removed computer equipment from Andreas Lubitz’s flat, it emerged the 28-year-old fitness fanatic had suffered from depression and ‘burnout’ which had held up his career."

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3013743/Germanwings-pilot-slipped-safety-net-devastating-consequences.html#ixzz3VXXG99Nx

 

Oh oops, I hadn't gotten to the bottom of the page yet, well there it is, then. Typical. He was either on an AD or in withdrawal.

 

What people don't always realize is that for some people taking ADs actually causes hostility, suicidal thinking, and distorted thinking and disinhibition and all kinds of strange behavior. Peter Breggin's book Medication Madness has a number of case histories of this kind of thing, and I think his website has more. You don't have to be in withdrawal for psych drugs to make you crazy.

[Songbird]

The media usually spin it as "they were off their meds" (like that was the problem, not withdrawal) in those cases.

Yes, instead of recognising withdrawal, it is usually assumed to be the return of the original condition.  That's what will happen here if it turns out he did go off meds, it will be assumed to be the return of his depression.

[Fresh]

It was the first thing I wondered too.    

There's a site called www.ssristories.org that has  "a collection of over 5,000 stories

that have appeared in the media (newspapers , TV , scientific journals)  in which prescription drugs were mentioned and

in which drugs may be linked to a variety of adverse outcomes including violence."

[indigo]

I've seen that site. Very valuable to have all that documentation. I think this is an important time

to speak up if we are able.It will take thousands of voices getting the word out in the open to change things.

When I posted on my Facebook page a story about this pilot being on SSR's, just  like many of the

people who shoot up high school libraries etc,  with link to article making this connect, comments came in

saying I was jumping tp conclusions and SSRI's help many people, and posting this would add to

stigma against depressed people. And many of these came from therapists friends of mine. Wow!

Gave me the chance to speak out. This was a big coming out of the closet for me. 

[indigo]

I haven't posted anything for awhile. Been getting used to the prozac liquid and the 1 mL syringe and now feel confident with it. The super anxiety every time I measured a dose that I'd get it microscopically wrong with dire consequences has now subsided. I now have a new tapering method: Instead of dropping 1 mL at a time, and dreading the inevitable WD, drowning in anxiety and dread and negative rumination for a week or ten days,then a month to recover,  I now drop a hairline at a time every week or so.There IS withdrawal right on time as usual, but it's way lighter and recovery, though up and down, is quicker. I'll probably still be tapering at the same rate using these infintessimal drops  more often but seems less stressful. Anyone used this method? 

[indigo]

Made a mistake in last post. Should be .01 ml a drop. Numbers foil me.

[justwanttobefree]

Just checking in on you Indigo as a fellow Prozac WD warrior. Sounds like your taper is going very well and you are in a strong head space Keep up the good work!

[indigo]

Thanks jwbf. Minute slow steps seems to be working so far. 

Never know when something  inexplicable might wreck things for awhile.

Was  thinking it might help when you feel hopeless to read the success stories.

It helped me get through the day at times.

At very least for the distraction value.

[Songbird]

I'm interested to see you are taking curcumin.  What are you taking it for and what results are you getting with it?

[indigo]

 I started taking it a couple of months ago after reading articles that it helped with depression and osteoarthritus.

Recently upped my dose to 1800 mgs.At same time upped my Omega 3 which is also anti-inflammatory.

Arthritus pain has definitely improved but then again it is getting warmer here with spring. My very slow tapering

off prozac seeming easier too but who knows if that's to do with the curcumin. 

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-09-turmeric-mood-depression-trial.html

[Dane22]

I like Justs comment "fellow Prozac WD warrior". Cracks me up. Where do I sign on??

 

Looks like you have a plan that is working for you. So good to read that! Please keep posting so we can follow and support you.

[Songbird]

I'm interested in natural anti-inflammatories.  I've been taking a turmeric complex with ginger and boswellia, which helped my lower back issues a lot.

[indigo]

I am actually doing very well. I've changed my tapering: instead of dropping .01 ML

at a time, suffering the jolt of withdrawal (insomnia, anxiety, dread, rumination etc),

and dropping again about a month later when symptoms subside,

I now slide the syringe down a hairline at a time much more often.

I get some WD symptoms but they are very mild. The most prominent is the 

pre-dawn waking up feeling super anxious and dark.

I have a new way of dealing with this. Instead of lying in bed obsessing,

I turn on my CD player and listen to an audio book.

It's distracting enough to take my mind off whatever is worrying me until I fall back to sleep.

When I wake up later I'm in much better spirits.

Been doing this super slow  gradual slide down the syringe for over a month now and it's working well for me.

[direstraits]

good to hear,hope you continue to feel better

[indigo]

I'm really encouraged by my new mico-hairline sliding down the syringe way of tapering.

Everyone is different but it really works for me not to have any sudden drops. I'm actually

able to "speed up" the pace of my taper this way and still cope with the symptoms. Mostly I

just wake at dawn feeling anxious and dark but get over it by mid morning.

Also a passing irritability which I can keep in check. Fortunately I don't have any

external stressors right now.

[Addax]

So great you have found something that works so well for you! I'll have to remember your method when I get down to those very low doses.

 

I know you said you do the audio book thing, but Have you tried a guided meditation app in the morning?

[indigo]

I'm doing pretty well. Thanks for asking. Srill mico=sliding down the syringe. Had a bit of a hard morning yesterday. Tales me awhile to catch on that the  obsessive darkdark thinking is not real but just WD.

 When I remember, I'm able to detach from it somewhat. See it's a just a symptom, like a headache not a brain tumor. By afternoon I was through it and had a good rest of the day.How are you Addax?

[Addax]

Part of the mindf*ck of withdrawal is the complete lack of perspective when it's happening. No sense that this is withdrawal screwing with the brain, not the real self. Had this yesterday. Near tears all morning, feeling lonely but too defective and screwed up to reach out, and complete amnesia of having any friends who care about me anyway . Withdrawal can be like a cruel joke.

I'm sorry yesterday was so rough and you were feeling defective. I hope deep down you realize you're not and its your brain being a jerk.

[indigo]

I'm thinking I need some way of remembering tha ***'s "just WD dread" and not real. Like when I'm lost in WD   dark thinking, training myself to have a word pop to mind. Like "Black Dog". To remind me to detach from the feelings and remember how I felt the week before I went into WD. Also since ,according to Altostrata, WD symptoms take four days to appear after a drop, I  should mark my calendar so that I'm ready for it. 

In truth I feel a bit humbled. I thought these micro hairline drops would hardly impact me. It seemed that way at first. But last few days proved that's not true. No way around. Just through WD.

[indigo]

I've been holding my dose level for almost a month. Was coping O.K. with withdrawal from my hairline drops every

few days. Then my house,( way out in countryside) was burglarized. Then I went to a weekend conference.

I thought the WD was over. Felt fine. But the stress of the burgalry, then being away at a conference really

tipped me into high anxiety. Thankfully I have been "prescribed" legal medical marijuana for this. It's cannabis

oil which is high is cannaboidal (very calming) and very low in THC ( the compound that gets you high). It's

giving me huge relief from the anxiety I get in withdrawal.

[freespirit]

I'm glad you're okay Indigo. Must have been scary having someone break into your house. Do you find the oil helps you with symptoms other than anxiety too?