UselessSpork: Mirtazapine withdrawal, from 45 mg down to 3.9 mg

[UselessSpork]

Last time i posted i said i felt like the wave was coming again and i wasn't wrong, felt super tired and crappy yesterday and feel like sh-it today. today im just pent up,agitated and anxious, its such buuuullsh-it. my mental symptoms are never the same, every wave is different. i cant tell if thats a good or a bad thing though.

[UselessSpork]

Omg i feel like shiiii-t, when i feel like this all rationality goes out the window.. i feel like my brain is broken permanently and ill never go back to the mostly happy guy i was before any of this stupid garbage started ): (i have never had any mental issues my entire life) it's true that i was having anxiety and depression problems for 2 months before i went on this stupid sh-it drug though... but it feels like i just made it permanent and chronic by going on this. i cant even describe what im feeling right now.. i cant say if its mostly anxiety or mostly depression or mostly agitation or whatever, it just feels like pain.. pain in my head like its on fire for god sakes. can anyone relate to this?

[Hopefull]

Hi Uselessspork,

Are you experiencing burning in the head?

I am experiencing that right now.

Do you get early morning cortisol surges and your chest/ arms feel like they are on fire?

I have been experiencing this latley.

Can you relate to this?

I can understand your frustration. Do the best that you can do, and keep on going.

[UselessSpork]

Yeah thats all i can really say, it feels like my head is just in pain, like a burning feeling. i think its a mixture of all kinds of bad moods at the same time... it feels like im being pumped with adrenaline, although i dont have any burning in my limbs. And honestly my mornings are usually decent, its within an hour after waking that symptoms may or may not start. A usual thing is i wake up feeling fine, maybe even for an hour or 2 after waking.. sometimes more. But as the day progresses i get worse. thats usually the pattern if i have a crappy day. waaay back i used to feel like crap as soon as i awoke, almost everyday... now it can happen but its very rare. when i have a horrible day like today, i usually dread getting out of bed in the morning though. my thoughts are "great... so whats going to happen today?" But honestly i think anyone would think that knowing that they are now in a wave. I know im going to feel bad tomorrow... its just a matter of how bad.

[Hopefull]

Waves are psychological torture.

Can't wait for this to be over and done with.

[UselessSpork]

You and me both, youuuu and me both

[tgirl]

Hang in there us!

Tgirl

[UselessSpork]

you as well Tgirl! hope that stands for TIGER girl xD

[UselessSpork]

Ugh this is getting ridiculous, this morning was good and now at the moment i feel really bad. I have been holding for alittle over 1 and a half months (more than 2 if you dont count the 1.6 to 1.5 mg reduction) and i have not seen any improvement, im looking at my journal and how i rate each day and im having almost as rough a time as i did when i tried going completely off 4 mg to zero way back in Feb. I am seriously asking myself what is the point? like how long? how long am i going to have to endure this punishment only to have to taper again in the future.. and possibly have this horseshit happen again. I feel like the tapering should be to AVOID feeling this horrible. Could staying on the meds possibly be making things worse for me? i know someone in this thread said they had to get off the meds because it was only making them worse.. and thats why they didnt taper all the way. It's like... would i rather continue to hold and perhaps never get much better, and eventually taper again only to feel awful and hold for an eternity once more... and do this for years. or jump off now and feel a bit worse but not have to taper anymore and lose that burden. if tapering/holding meant avoiding feeling this bad then i wouldn't mind it taking a long time.. but whats the point if i feel this bad? im starting to repeat myself, i could use some talking to about this.

 

im sorry i feel so incredibly bad and im so fed up with this.. im so sick and tired of it. im not even sure what i wrote makes sense

 

PS i updated my signature to show what has been going on

[UselessSpork]

Anyone? ): i feel so bad at the moment

[Fresh]

Please don't make any rash decisions young Sporkmeister . 

I know you feel dreadful at the moment , and that's the worst frame of mind to make big decisions.

Six or eight weeks is not a long hold in the scheme of things.  Your symptoms have been so unpredictable the past 6 months , I'd think about

sitting for another 3 months without tapering and see if things improve.  You deserve an opportunity to stabilize , just my opinion.

 

[UselessSpork]

thanks fresh <3 im really glad you replied. It may have sounded like i was ready to jump off when i wrote that last night, but i wasn't really close. im not going to make any decisions or do anything until i stabilize, however long it takes (even thought it feels like i never will) . I am just so frustrated in general at how long this is taking, i have never experienced destabilizing for this long before. it feels like im in a ridiculously long never ending wave.

[UselessSpork]

*topic moved from symptoms forum

 

Hello people there has been a mystery that i have been trying to solve for a while now. its regarding how i started on this whole depressed/anxious episode and how i ended up on antidepressants.

 

Just for the record, before this all started i never had any issues with any mental problems whatsoever.. literally nothing.

 

on November 2013 i had a headache one day, and my dad had this CBD oil extracted from pot leaves... so i tried a tiny drop, thinking it might help my headache.. since i heard it can help with those (By the way headaches are not uncommon for me). But quickly after trying it i noticed i started becoming dizzy. i thought "well i have been dizzy before.. this isnt a problem" then i kept getting dizzier and dizzier until the tip of my tongue where i dropped the oil started getting tingly and a bit numb. so then i basically start getting really anxious and panicking which turned into what i believe was a panic attack. so i got my dad to take me to the hospital since i thought i was dying at the time lol. I had what seemed to be classic panic attack symptoms, like super dry mouth (to where it was hard to talk) a pounding heart, felt like i was gonna pass out. i also got really pale and my nail beds turned purple, which doesn't sound like something a panic attack would do. so anyways i eventually settle down and they said they couldnt find anything wrong with me, so i went home. and heres where things get kind of confusing. For about a month afterwards i had this unexplained dizziness that didn't have any spinning aspect to it. it just felt like my eyes were swimming and it was hard to focus on things. it also felt like my head was heavy and it wanted to rest backwards all the time. also my tongue tip was numb for alittle while after this aswell. so for a month i was dizzy, but not anxious or depressed. that didnt start until month 1 was over and my dizzyness subsided a bit... but then quickly came back worse than before and with that came incredible anxiety. so from then on everytime i felt dizzy i got anxious, they were paired up, i usually never had one without the other. i got tons of blood tests to figure out the dizzyness but it all came back negative. Eventually i started becoming fairly depressed, and 56 days after taking the CBD oil i tried taking citalopram. i only gave it 2 days and dropped it, since that garbage made me go insane with anxiety. i then dropped it and went with mirtazapine. .. and im sure you know the story from there. also that original dizzyness seemed to go away eventually, although it has come back and left a few times during this whole nearly 2 year ordeal. But never close to how bad it was originally.

 

 

Im sorry its so long, but im basically wondering.. has anyone heard of CBD oil (that is supposed to contain zero THC, the part of weed that gets you high) causing a reaction like this? also if the CBD oil wasn't to blame and it was just a panic attack on its own, could a panic attack cause my brain to destabilize and become weirdly dizzy? i know this is nearly impossible to anwser, but any insight into this would help alot.

 

PS: i have never done any recreational drugs .. yes im boring i know lol

[freespirit]

I posted something on my thread, which perhaps I should have posted on yours...regarding some free or low cost treatment options in different modalities. Maybe have a look at that and see if there's anything that interests you...

 

I think Fresh is sharing some good advice...I understand really well about patience (or lack thereof). Hold on just for this moment, then the next one, and the one after that. It won't always be like this and the more you can settle yourself and ride the waves, the less suffering you'll have. I know it's easier said than done though.

[UselessSpork]

I just read what you posted in your thread lol thanks for that. it looks like i made your thread about me haha.. wasn't my intention, but you are such a nice person you thought of helping me out even though it was a freespirit healing thread . maybe ill get back to you on the cranial thing (maybe i should google and see what it is) I have a weird problem where, if i feel like im desperately trying different things to feel better, such as jogging or meditation.. it kind of makes me anxious. like there is a little guy in my head saying "oh you are just trying anything to feel better arent you? well nothing will work!" its a sh*tty thought that leads to further distress, i think its because i have such a low success rate with things i try. like supplements don't work, eating healthy doesnt seem to work, meditation seems to make me hyper focus on my anxiety, and sometimes jogging makes me feel worse. can you relate to this at all?

[Darwin]

it's what happens when your body's not accustomed to weed. your brain is trying to go back to compensate for what had happened. call the dizziness more like an afterglow. The same thing happened to me. i had an experience just like yours which sparked anxiety.  

[UselessSpork]

it's what happens when your body's not accustomed to weed. your brain is trying to go back to compensate for what had happened. call the dizziness more like an afterglow. The same thing happened to me. i had an experience just like yours which sparked anxiety.  

Ahh, the question is.. can this happen even without THC being present? or maybe someone fudged up and there was actually THC in it, hmmm

[freespirit]

Yes, I can relate to it. When I first jumped off, I was trying a lot of different things and many of them either didn't help or made things worse. That was before I found this site, so didn't know that sometimes, the thing to do is nothing at all. My nervous system was wired and my usual things weren't working in the ways they had in the past. For awhile, I just had to stop trying new things, and cut back on some of what I was doing (qi gong and meditation mostly, but also had to scale back exercise). It's one of the hardest kinds of places to feel like doing nothing is acceptable, but sometimes it is.

 

Because symptoms can change rapidly and without a known cause, it's often hard to say whether something is making things better or worse too. But that chasing after something, anything, can definitely cause an increase in anxiety. It's when I have the inclination to start casting about for the thing that will fix what I'm feeling, that I most need to sit down and accept that right now, "it's like this". Sometimes, that surrender or acceptance is what's really being called for. Acceptance doesn't mean you have to like it, just agreeing with the experience one is actually having right then.

 

If possible, try to set down the time frame. The more we dwell on how long we've been waiting, how long a symptom has been there, the more the mind will start reaching for something to fix it. I know patience is difficult, and maybe just as hard for those of us older as you young folks. After all, we can be thinking about how time is running out for us..lol..take a really deep breath and settle into right now. It's actually the only place we have any power at all. Listen to the sound of the rain on the roof, the wind in the trees, the sound of your breath. Meditation can be a million different things...sometimes a very narrow focus, like only on the breath, can create more anxiety...sometimes, attending to the wider frame opens the mind and brings some relaxation.

 

And my standard bit of advice, think about trying the 7 minute qi gong video...a bit of movement can often help..it's gentle and easy to follow..and no money required.

[UselessSpork]

Next time i feel trapped in anxiety or depression ill take a look at the qi gong. i usually play video games as much as i can to have fun and distract myself, and it does a good job until i get hit with anxiety or depression that is so bad i just cant concentrate and have no motivation to play anymore. that seems like as good a time as any to watch a qi gong video, thanks free also i understand what you are saying about being accepting. and just accept that you feel a certain way at the current moment. i try to practice that as much as i can, i just find it very challenging to not think that whatever im doing is to FIX the depression or anxiety. It is the same thing with the meditation, i have been told not to think of the meditation as something to fix how you feel at the current moment. otherwise then you get expectations about it, and if it doesn't fix you.. then you feel worse. Like i said, it's something i have been practicing, but i find it sooo damn difficult to do >.<

[Darwin]

 

it's what happens when your body's not accustomed to weed. your brain is trying to go back to compensate for what had happened. call the dizziness more like an afterglow. The same thing happened to me. i had an experience just like yours which sparked anxiety.  

Ahh, the question is.. can this happen even without THC being present? or maybe someone fudged up and there was actually THC in it, hmmm

 

my suggestion is that if you can get your hands on the plant itself ingest it naturally. it has healing powers & it's much a better choice since that's how it was meant for us to eat the plant anyway no heating required. I wouldn't worry about that past it's behind us that's not where we're going look for a solution to your problems that don't involve the help of doctors related with the pharmaceutical industry. You'll be good bro. healing time for you will be much faster than ours here who have taken these nasty drugs for years. Remember that you are what you put into your body try a high carb vegan diet if you can do that. It's the best known diet that we can have for our body. Also i might add, the thing with marijuana is that it can open up underlying illnesses that you would have already been prone to later in life; So consider that experience a good one at that for happening sooner than later. Now this doesn't mean it can't be cured because it can through applying healthy activities and behaviors in your everyday life. 

[Hopefull]

Hi Uselessspork,

It is good to hear that you are feeling better.

What dose are you on currently?

How long have you been holding?

I am not sure how long to hold my current dose.

Are you sensitive to supplements due to ad's?

[UselessSpork]

Ahh thanks for the input man. i guess i am caught up in the past alittle bit, you are right about that. you are a pretty smart guy for being only 17, hell you seem smarter than me and im 27 xD Either way, we are both young so we can BOTH get through this bullsh-it. thanks for taking the time to respond

[UselessSpork]

well i feel better than i did yesterday, but still feel sh-itty >.<

 

i posted in your thread about my dose and how long i have been holding

 

i guess you and me are in the same boat, how long to hold. i guess im going to hold until i feel better and go from there.

 

yeah im super sensitive to supplements and foods now that im withdrawing.

[Fresh]

I applaud your open-mindedness , you need to tell that annoying voice to shut up and continue to try new things.

There's a problem with this bit though: "Next time i feel trapped in anxiety or depression ill take a look at the qi gong."

 

I mean , that's like saying , "Next time I'm drowning I'll try to learn to swim".

 

Make a decision to do the qi-gong daily for a week or two to become familiar with it.   More often if you like it.  Then , when you do it when things get bad , you won't be doing something new , but something familiar.  

It will be a very different experience than waiting until you're drowning.

 

xxx

[UselessSpork]

I suppose, but i am the kind of person that likes to do certain things depending on my mood. if im in a good mood i only wanna play games or hang out with friends... if im in a worse mood i do things to help ease my mood, like watching that kind of video for example. i dunno im really stubborn that way... i guess i should try to work on that.

[freespirit]

I understand your thinking on this US. Maybe the qi gong seems like work in some way, or a something you "have to do". I find it never helps for me to impose on myself in that way. The video is only 7 minutes though...not like committing to an hour of something. Try giving yourself permission to do it any time of the day and just see what it's like. If qi gong isn't your thing, keep looking.

 

Even after WD has receded into the background for you, other events and difficulties will enter your life. You might think of things that you do during this time will help you when those things happen down the road. You'd already have tools in place for dealing with them. Small, daily practices of something help keep a person more balanced, and therefore, more able to deal with even the daily stresses that come up.

[UselessSpork]

Yeah, having tools to cope with stresses for the rest of your life would be nice. i have already found deep breathing can be helpful sometimes... its one of the few things that can make me feel better when im anxious, but only slightly when its really bad.

[Petunia]

.. has anyone heard of CBD oil (that is supposed to contain zero THC, the part of weed that gets you high) causing a reaction like this? also if the CBD oil wasn't to blame and it was just a panic attack on its own, could a panic attack cause my brain to destabilize and become weirdly dizzy? i know this is nearly impossible to anwser, but any insight into this would help alot.

 

Hi US, I moved the above topic from symptoms to your own thread because its about you and your situation. Darwin made some helpful comments and I agree that its probably impossible to know exactly what happened. But I disagree with the statement that marijuana can open up underlying illnesses that you would have already been prone to later in life. There is no way to prove this, its more likely that some people are more sensitive to certain substances than others and experience unpleasant effects when ingesting them.

 

This is the same false reasoning behind the idea that if someone has an adverse reaction to an anti-depressant, it has uncovered underlying bipolar disorder. Some people are just more sensitive to having their brain chemistry messed around with and it sounds like you might be like this. I'm the same.

 

It looks to me like you had a small adverse reaction to the CBD oil, specifically, the sensation in your tongue. The subsequent dizziness could have been a reaction too, or it could have been associated with the headache you already had or one of the symptoms of an anxiety reaction which was beginning. As you wrote, this all spiraled quickly out of control into a panic attack, which you mistook for something more serious.

 

I think what happened is that over the next month or two, you were not able to resolve in your mind what had actually happened, so you were probably feeling a subtle sense of confusion and anxiety, unable to get a definite answer about what had happened. Anxiety makes us hyper-vigilant and so we notice every little change in our environment and our body, it can quickly spiral out of control and become what gets diagnosed as an 'anxiety disorder'.

 

As someone who seems sensitive to psychotropic substances in general, you would have done better to have got some counseling or help with learning how to calm the anxiety response naturally. Dizziness can be a symptom of the anxiety response, anxiety is part of being human, its not a disease, some people experience anxiety more easily than others. 'Depression' is also a normal human response to ongoing difficulties or painful circumstances when we can't see a way out or an end to the pain.

 

What I see is a chain of confusing misunderstandings and mis-diagnosis following a mild reaction to the CBD oil you used to try and treat your headache. A panic attack can be very destabilizing, especially if you don't know what's going on and don't get proper support.

 

Drugs don't cure anything, they can sometimes suppress some of the unpleasant things we don't want to be feeling, but the long term consequences of these drugs can be very harmful, more so to some people than others. They create an imbalance in the brain where previously there was a normal balance.

 

This is just my theory, but I think people who were more sensitive to start with, often have a harder time when trying to come off the drugs.

 

I like what freespirit has been encouraging you to do. Use this time to learn ways to manage the difficult aspects of life now, you have plenty of unpleasant sensations to practice on, find what works for you and then when you are completely off the drug and recovered, you will have a good, solid, healthy lifestyle in place as a foundation for the rest of your life.

[UselessSpork]

thanks for moving that here and giving feedback on it, you're awesome i guess its a good thing that i dont blame myself at all for the actions i took. and more than anything.. i honestly just wanted to see what that oil tasted like .. lol. such an innocent way to have shi-t like this happen eh? i knew there was no active ingredient in it, so i thought whats the harm? maybe it might help my headache. oh well, whats done is done. sorry i dont have much to respond with, but i did very much enjoy your post

[Hopefull]

Hi Mitrazapine buddy,

 

Do you meditate? Practice mindfulness?

Thank you for stopping by my thread.

We will beat this.

Maybe in 1 year time, you will write, "I am having the time of my life"!

You are still young. Don't forget to enjoy life, even if you are feeling down because of wd symptoms.

You are only young once. Enjoy it!

Take this advice from a wise, kind of "old", owl.

[UselessSpork]

Hello again hopeful, no problem for stopping by your thread

1 year time would be great xD i can wait 1 year if it means nearly or total recovery

it seems crazy to imagine yourself totally depression and anxiety free once you have become used to this way of life.

Can people turn a corner all of a sudden with this? like be having a horrible time then all of a sudden get alot better and never go back?

thats what im hoping for

[Hopefull]

I honestly think that you can turn a corner and live a happy and full filled life.

It is strange how we tend to get used to this way of living.

Once you are freed from the meds , it might take a while to adjust.

Especially if you have not felt peaceful for a long time.

You will live a full filling life.

You will heal and move on.

It will take time.

But before that happens, get through this rough period, one day at the time.

[dalsaan]

Next time i feel trapped in anxiety or depression ill take a look at the qi gong. i usually play video games as much as i can to have fun and distract myself, and it does a good job until i get hit with anxiety or depression that is so bad i just cant concentrate and have no motivation to play anymore. that seems like as good a time as any to watch a qi gong video, thanks free also i understand what you are saying about being accepting. and just accept that you feel a certain way at the current moment. i try to practice that as much as i can, i just find it very challenging to not think that whatever im doing is to FIX the depression or anxiety. It is the same thing with the meditation, i have been told not to think of the meditation as something to fix how you feel at the current moment. otherwise then you get expectations about it, and if it doesn't fix you.. then you feel worse. Like i said, it's something i have been practicing, but i find it sooo damn difficult to do >.<

Hey US,

 

I'm stuck on the last little bit too - its frustrating but I'm just holding at the moment.   I read this post and was a bit struck by the fact that you are proposing to hold off doing the qi gong until you are hit with anxiety or depression.   Could this mean you are more likely to positon the qi gong as a fix to how you are feeling, given you have noted that tendency?   Might it be better to schedule a qi gong session as something to do everyday for a week regardless of how you feel so you aren't loading it with expectation and remain open to the way it may contribute to your wellbeing?

 

Just a prod  

 

Dalsaan 

[UselessSpork]

Im just stubborn and lazy for the most part. when i feel ok i just wanna do what i wanna do, kinda thing. like i dont go exercise all that much if i feel fine, its only when i feel sh*tty that i go and do it. its a character flaw of mine. getting myself to try new things is an uphill battle aswell lol

[dalsaan]

I get it.

[ang]

Well I was investigating canabis oil,   so many good recommendations out there............   But from your experience (so glad I read it US),  no way!    All these meds have been horrific for me..............  cant tolerated benzos, send my psycho....................  I wont risk trying another of anything......

 

seems I better just stick to what I am doing.............................