UselessSpork: Mirtazapine withdrawal, from 45 mg down to 3.9 mg

[Nomoreheadmeds]

I have been looking at cbd oil.its non psychoactive .Its on sale legally in the uk so you can bet theres no THC in it .Its said it has neuroprotective qualities and an antimflammatory which is interesting.

[UselessSpork]

Well I was investigating canabis oil,   so many good recommendations out there............   But from your experience (so glad I read it US),  no way!    All these meds have been horrific for me..............  cant tolerated benzos, send my psycho....................  I wont risk trying another of anything......

 

seems I better just stick to what I am doing.............................  

Yeah i cant even tolerate supplements at the moment, they either do nothing or make me worse

 

 

I have been looking at cbd oil.its non psychoactive .Its on sale legally in the uk so you can bet theres no THC in it .Its said it has neuroprotective qualities and an antimflammatory which is interesting.

thats what puzzles me... how on earth could it make me dizzy? thats said to be something that happens when you smoke weed WITH THC in it. my dad said maybe they used some sh*tty chemicals to make it? its all very confusing.

[freespirit]

 

Next time i feel trapped in anxiety or depression ill take a look at the qi gong. i usually play video games as much as i can to have fun and distract myself, and it does a good job until i get hit with anxiety or depression that is so bad i just cant concentrate and have no motivation to play anymore. that seems like as good a time as any to watch a qi gong video, thanks free also i understand what you are saying about being accepting. and just accept that you feel a certain way at the current moment. i try to practice that as much as i can, i just find it very challenging to not think that whatever im doing is to FIX the depression or anxiety. It is the same thing with the meditation, i have been told not to think of the meditation as something to fix how you feel at the current moment. otherwise then you get expectations about it, and if it doesn't fix you.. then you feel worse. Like i said, it's something i have been practicing, but i find it sooo damn difficult to do >.<

Hey US,

 

I'm stuck on the last little bit too - its frustrating but I'm just holding at the moment.   I read this post and was a bit struck by the fact that you are proposing to hold off doing the qi gong until you are hit with anxiety or depression.   Could this mean you are more likely to positon the qi gong as a fix to how you are feeling, given you have noted that tendency?   Might it be better to schedule a qi gong session as something to do everyday for a week regardless of how you feel so you aren't loading it with expectation and remain open to the way it may contribute to your wellbeing?

 

Just a prod

 

Dalsaan 

 

 

I find it's a very fine line between attending to what's happening and fixing. However, I feel it in a physical way, if I drop into my body more. If I'm in fixing mode, there's clearly more tension or a sense of striving. Qi gong and striving don't go very well together!

 

I'm going to give a prod here too. If you find something to do on a more regular basis, you can become more adept at feeling things before they blow up in your face. Any kind of energy practice can help clear physical blockages in the body or meridian system. It means you can potentially feel much better more of the time. Nothing is a cure. Having difficult feelings is a part of life...however, it's possible to not be buried by them..or be offended when they arise.

 

In Buddhist circles, teachers will often say, "pain is given, suffering is optional". Which means that pain is a part of everyone's life...but much of the suffering is what we add on to the pain. ie. "I hate this depression or anxiety" this adds not only mental/emotional suffering, but also physical. We can't wrestle and subdue mind states to the ground..at least it's never been successful for me! But we can learn how to meet them, open to them, and allow them to move through..or "go with the flow" as qi gong teachers could suggest.

 

Without the practices I've done through my life, I'm not sure I would have survived some of the very difficult things I've gone through over the years. Those practices can be a home we can come back to, but they need to be nurtured and sustained..so that they are there when the **** hits the fan and we're knocked down by life's experiences.

 

One of the ways of being that's worked for me over the past couple of years is to take everything as a kind of experiment. What happens when I do a few minutes of qi gong every day, or when I focus on this one aspect of it? What happens when I miss a day, or increase the time I'm practicing? What happens when I listen to what I need that time? or ignore it? Life then becomes more an investigation, invites curiosity, and resistances fall away. Challenge the belief that something is broken and in need of the hammer...

[UselessSpork]

Weeeell i dont got much to say other than i tried watching a qi gong video and i did 10 minutes of it. it made me feel alittle better and it was calming , its not that i didn't think it wouldnt be calming.. im just.... i dunno im weird lol. this is just how i have always been my whole life... just weird with new things, and intensely lazy.

[Nomoreheadmeds]

 

Well I was investigating canabis oil,   so many good recommendations out there............   But from your experience (so glad I read it US),  no way!    All these meds have been horrific for me..............  cant tolerated benzos, send my psycho....................  I wont risk trying another of anything......

 

seems I better just stick to what I am doing.............................  

Yeah i cant even tolerate supplements at the moment, they either do nothing or make me worse

 

 

I have been looking at cbd oil.its non psychoactive .Its on sale legally in the uk so you can bet theres no THC in it .Its said it has neuroprotective qualities and an antimflammatory which is interesting.

thats what puzzles me... how on earth could it make me dizzy? thats said to be something that happens when you smoke weed WITH THC in it. my dad said maybe they used some sh*tty chemicals to make it? its all very confusing.

 

Yes it could be.I've read that some use butane(sometimes contaminated)as a solvent to obtain the oil.Steam distillation would be the safest way I think for the consumer and the manufacturer

[Nomoreheadmeds]

I thought about trying it for my original back pain instead of Pharmaceuticals given it has anti-imflamatory effects

[UselessSpork]

I have heard alot of good things about it. not sure wtf happened with me... i seem to be the only person on the planet that had a problem with it.

[Nomoreheadmeds]

Does your Dad use it for pain?

[UselessSpork]

he smokes weed for pain, he just got that **** to try. Me freaking out on it made him not wanna use it >.<

 

Also, great... today i woke up and i was depressed right away. my stupid brain didn't even give me a chance ): this **** is so cruel

[UselessSpork]

I feel like the depression/anxiety or just mood issues in general have a threshold... where if its below that threshold you can do things like hang out with friends and go for walks and entertain yourself and you can make yourself feel better. But as soon as your mood gets bad enough to cross that threshold it feels like no matter what you do, nothing makes you feel better.. or it has a very minimal short lasting effect. anyone notice this? its like the shields are up now boys, nothing is getting through.

[tgirl]

Windows and waves.

You will stabilize.

Hang in there,

Tgirl

[Petunia]

I feel like the depression/anxiety or just mood issues in general have a threshold...... as soon as your mood gets bad enough to cross that threshold it feels like no matter what you do, nothing makes you feel better..

 

Yes, freespirit offered a possible way to address this just a few posts up.

 

In Buddhist circles, teachers will often say, "pain is given, suffering is optional". Which means that pain is a part of everyone's life...but much of the suffering is what we add on to the pain. ie. "I hate this depression or anxiety" this adds not only mental/emotional suffering, but also physical. We can't wrestle and subdue mind states to the ground..at least it's never been successful for me! But we can learn how to meet them, open to them, and allow them to move through..or "go with the flow" as qi gong teachers could suggest.

[UselessSpork]

Thats what i really try to do when it crosses the threshold, i try going with it and accepting it. but its brutally difficult when it feels like you have lava flowing through your views from anxiety, or the whole world is garbage when you are super depressed.

[Petunia]

I completely agree that its difficult, almost impossible at times, I get it...... meaning I understand and also experience the same thing myself.

 

Eventually, we have to come to a point of realizing that reality is what it is, our not liking it doesn't change it, our struggling with it makes it worse and our believing that it should somehow be different, adds even more suffering.

 

Here are some topics which may give you something to think about, add to them if you like:

 

Acceptance - Surviving Antidepressants

 

Mindfulness and Acceptance - Surviving Antidepressants

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms ...

[UselessSpork]

thanks for the links petunia

[Hopefull]

Hi Uselessspork ,

Thank you for stopping by my thread.

I feel like you at the moment.

Normality one day, crap the next day.

I feel like I am back to square 1.

 

How are you doing? Keep on soldiering.

We will get through this.

[AliG]

 Hi U.S.

 

You're getting a lot of really great advice & input here !!    I just hope that you can implement, some of it, if not all of it.   You do seem to be " resistant ", in a way . I assume that's " withdrawal" talking.  " Been there, done that " !!   Procrastination , is the " enemy". Also ,  " inaction".

 

You talk about waking up & being  depressed straight away.  " My stupid brain didn't even give me a chance ".    That seems to be common,.  It's either " cortisol" awakenings or  straight out depression.  I remember waking up , and I was instantly in tears !   No rhyme or reason, to it !   That is " withdrawal".    Fortunately, I know that now.  At the time, I thought I was going mad .  Very disconcerting !!  It doesn't happen anymore.  Time heals &   symptoms change.  It will get better, slowly.  I still suffer, " the blues", but I can tell the difference, from those days.  I think it's still " iatrogenic" , but just less.It's decreasing in minute amounts, day by day.   I'm sure I will always have my down days,  it's part of the " human condition" . However ,once, I'm totally free of these chemicals, it will be much more manageable & natural.  I'm feeling the difference, already.  I'm sure you will, too, in time.

 

Try & be patient.    

Ali.

[UselessSpork]

your welcome hopeful, we all gotta keep going.

 

And thanks aliG, i like hearing from people who have been where i am and have gotten alot better, it gives me encouragement. Most of the time i wake up feeling fine but it can quickly turn into anxiety or depression, so when i wake up and im immediately depressed its a big blow. Depression/anxiety just feels like a big bully dipsh-it that keeps taking your lunch money "oh whats that? you cant take anymore? well heres another day of hell for ya!" if depression was manifested into a person, i would kill them lol. thats how much i haaate this.. no no.. i LOATHE this, when i hear that bs from people about this being permanent. and they tell me im gonna have to cope the rest of your life i just wanna say "NO.. i wont just beat this, i will destroy this" i just wished i could always be so upbeat about destroying it though >.<

[Hopefull]

Hi Uselessspork,

It is a really good attitude to have.

You can beat this.

You can do it.

But you can't be a super human all the time.

Some days will be, "I can't do this anymore ".

And other days, " I can do this, I can beat this. "

Right now I am going through, one day good and one day bad pattern.

I am kinda back to square 1.

I just say to myself, "One more year and I will feel better ".

Just keep on plodding along.

Where there is a beginning , there has to be an end !

[tgirl]

U.S.,

What a great attitude!

Keep it up!

[UselessSpork]

well hopeful, its true that on the worst days i cant really keep it up as much. but even in my darkest hour i know this shi-t can be beaten i know people have beaten it and i know its just a matter of time.

it may sound sort of negative but i see it as this, i know this crap can be beaten its just a matter of beating it before i end up doing something to myself (and not saying i will!) but everyone has a breaking point, im just fighting to hold on long enough to beat this BEFORE i hit that breaking point. And honestly my attitude about destroying this thing is more so about anger and frustration and male pride than being hopeful and optimistic xD i feel like i dont want this miserable sack of sh-it to bring me down and rule my life, i hate it so much.. this depression, i want to MURDER IT! like i said before, i loaathe it... i get ANGRY everytime it decides to rear its ugly head and ruin another day, of course this isn't healthy to get angry.. but its just how i feel >.<

[Hopefull]

Getting angry is perfectly ok.

You have the right to be angry, frustrated. You are only human.

Don't forget that you have youth on your side.

You will recover from this.

The "end it all thoughts ", most of us have had these unhelpful, destructive thoughts.

We are here on this earth for a reason.

This will pass.

Take care of your self.

Go out. Enjoy. You are only young once.

What are you mostly anxious about?

[chicken]

Being angry is okay.

 

I get very angry sometimes about what has happened to me with drugs.

 

I let it out but. I don't think it's healthy to hold it in. I try not to let it out on people.

 

Maybe a punching bag or some kind of inanimate object would be good for you to let the anger out on.

[UselessSpork]

lol yeah i have thought of buying a punching bag, it would help alot.

 

and hopeful, i dont get anxious about anything in particular.. all the negative emotions these days are almost all neuro emotions.

they come without reason and make no sense, ill get anxious about seeing blue paint on bad days. then anxious because i saw a rake....... you get what i mean.

[UselessSpork]

Wake up, get depressed/anxious.. may or may not go away, rinse and repeat. same sh-it different day... frustrating? oh yes. Most of the time its the crappy but tolerable depression/anxiety ,but it still it gets so tiring being in the same unchanging bullsh-it state every godamn day. can something change please?... seriously. I just needed to vent

[UselessSpork]

*topic and responses moved from symptoms forum

 

I find these days i sometimes have trouble telling the difference between boredom and depression. i ask myself "am i really bored of this activity? or just depressed" i find the difference between my depression and boredom is, with boredom i can do something else or find something else to stimulate me. But with depression, almost nothing stimulates me... it doesn't matter what i try, im just not interested. so im stuck in this state of wanting to do something, but not wanting to do anything, its extremely frustrating and it can feel hopeless. Depression is like Boredom plus, mind you im talking about lower levels of depression.. not like crushing debilitating depression.. although low levels are still awful. any thoughts on this?

Edited October 16, 2015 by Petunia
added note

[manymoretodays]

It's the indecisiveness, perhaps..........the boredom, then bordering on depression.  The can't make up my mind or prioritize what to do, and then that feeling of going in circles.

 

Not so much the drudgery(sometimes) of the "must do's" of living within boundaries........I mean I can now usually get those things done in a timely manner and on some sort of schedule..........and then with the resultant........pride I suppose(maybe not the best word).

 

Back to the indecisiveness.......as to all the other stuff that makes life worth living.  Stay safe......... or contemplate..........decide........ and then act on going further type thing.  Then enjoy it.

 

Perhaps?

[UselessSpork]

hmm, i sometimes get some really bad indecisiveness. for me it goes "i wanna do something but i dont know that i wanna do.... but i dont wanna do anything" imagine how frustrating that horseshit is lol. but then im sure you already know

[SquirrellyGirl]

I had a day like that yesterday, UselessSpork (love your moniker, BTW!)  I spent the day on the couch surfing the web in my pj's, and I think the one word that described how I was feeling is "unmotivated."  I felt bad that I didn't feel like doing anything, that I should be out enjoying the nice weather, but I just couldn't get up the gumption.  I really hate that.  It's one of those "will I be this way forever" deals!

 

Lack of motivation has ruled my life these days.  I'm tapering mirtazapine, and I can honestly say that in a 30 day period I will have a handful of days where I actually WANT to get out and do something and actually do it!

 

Today, though I didn't want to, I finally did the dishes, trained my two dogs on sheep (should be fun but even that feels like a chore a lot of the time), and tackled an irrigation problem we have had going on for quite some time and that I was avoiding....and then I allowed myself to come indoors and take a load off for the rest of the day!  That was pretty good for me!

[UselessSpork]

I used to have alot more good days, but now that i am nearing the end of my taper **** has been rough the past 3 months. i have alot of these days D:

 

nice work getting that sh-it done today! you got tha gumption XD

[Hopefull]

It will change.

I'm having a window today.

Went for a walk with a friend.

Beautiful, sunny, spring day.

Hopefully you will have a window soon.

Cheers, Hopefull.

[AliG]

 Hi U.S.   Unfortunately, at the moment , I feel the same.

 

 

I feel like the depression/anxiety or just mood issues in general have a threshold... where if its below that threshold you can do things like hang out with friends and go for walks and entertain yourself and you can make yourself feel better. But as soon as your mood gets bad enough to cross that threshold it feels like no matter what you do, nothing makes you feel better.. or it has a very minimal short lasting effect. anyone notice this? its like the shields are up now boys, nothing is getting through.

 

I feel like the depression/anxiety or just mood issues in general have a threshold... where if its below that threshold you can do things like hang out with friends and go for walks and entertain yourself and you can make yourself feel better. But as soon as your mood gets bad enough to cross that threshold it feels like no matter what you do, nothing makes you feel better.. or it has a very minimal short lasting effect. anyone notice this? its like the shields are up now boys, nothing is getting through.

 I feel this is true. U.S.

[freespirit]

I find there are times too, where doing the usual things don't have the same effects. Regardless though, I keep on doing them. For me, it's become clear that stopping and starting exercise, meditation, or any other beneficial things can produce the same kinds of effects on the nervous system that starting and stopping medications might. I'm aiming to keep some level of balance for the nervous system, with some gentle stimulation (or some days more than that) and some level of relaxation practice.

 

Also, as I posted on Ali's thread...there are places where what's being asked is to actually surrender to the emotions that are present. In a way, it doesn't matter if they are real or neuro-emotions...because the body might not be able to distinguish the differences. I know I'm becoming a broken record on this on your thread....but without feeling and accepting things, we make everything worse, sometimes a lot worse. There's a place for saying "no" to the emotions and changing the channel as Alto suggests..and there is also a place for just feeling what's there...not thinking or ruminating it, but dropping into the body and feeling what lives there. Fighting against that just makes more of the same...and sets up a pattern where we hate anything that doesn't fit within our range of what's acceptable.

 

If you look closely, you'll find that the majority of suffering comes from resisting what's there..not from the feelings themselves.

[UselessSpork]

Dont worry about sounding like a broken record free because i am still trying hard to do just what you are saying.

 

glad you are having a window hopefull

[freespirit]

Good that you're trying...as Petunia said, this is not an easy thing to do...especially when things are really difficult. It's a practice. Try to pay attention to the more neutral moments, if you can. We tend to chase after the good ones, push away the ones we don't like, and space out on the times that don't have a big charge one way or another. But noticing neutral times helps in gaining perspective..by realizing not all moments are terrible, even in WD. It can help give the mind a rest, where it's not grabbing onto something and not trying to get rid of something else. We can become kind of addicted to the highs/lows pattern and start feeling anxious or that there's something wrong when things are more neutral...it's all an experiment...if we learn different ways of facing into things, it can really help...

[UselessSpork]

aye, yeah about those neutral moments. sometimes i just become self aware and realize i haven't been thinking anything bad or feeling bad for a time .. could be a few hours, half a day.. or even ten minutes. sometimes i just become self aware and realize i haven't been feeling bad for a while.. the problem is i am not aware of when those neutral moments are happening, because i am most likely distracted or out with friends or working. i feel like once i notice it, that i missed it in a way. either way its nice to have breaks