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tanit

why can`t we gather and bring some researchers to help us ,why accept our suffering?

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tanit

who is interested in finding a solution and is prepared to engage in finding a cure for tca and ssri  side effects ?

please leave your name .

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Obstacle1

I agree it's worth a shot. It might be a long shot as I guess research is only done by pharmaceuticals if they think they can profit from it. I'd be interested in trying to do something though, feel free to send me a PM

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WiggleIt

I'm interested in seeing these meds illegalized by bringing media attention to their risks. Does that count?

 

I'm afraid that any "cure" would just damage me further.

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compsports

I'm interested in seeing these meds illegalized by bringing media attention to their risks. Does that count?

 

I'm afraid that any "cure" would just damage me further.

I understand what you're saying but many people find great pain relief from TCAs and don't suffer any side effects.   I know someone in that situation who is definitely sympathetic to my issues but hasn't experience them himself.   I wouldn't want to deny him a med that provides the most effective pain relief, especially when he has suffered so much.

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ltee84

I agree that something more needs to be done. Is there not some avenue that can be taken to further bring awareness to the danger of these drugs? Benzos were at point in the same class as AD's in the sense that they were touted as this magic pill and only decades later did society wake up to the dangers. (That said ...many pdocs will still prescribe benzos without thinking twice)...isn't it about time AD's were shown more publicly for the dependance they create?

 

There has to be a  way to get scientists/researchers more involved in researching this..with the amount of people worldwide on these drugs, it should be of great importance.

 

I'm on board with any way of trying to get this topic into the general public and garnering more research!!!

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btdt

Hit the streets... 

a big protest is the way to get attention... who is well enough to start a ruckus.... 

I think we have the will we just don't have the health to pull it off.. I wish we did.  

 

I have to a post script here as years and years ago I recall seeing a man who stood in front of a hosp with a sign that said "psychiatric drugs kill people"  I talked to him as I was on drugs and talked to everyone at the time.

His son was drugged he was a child... this man was 100% convinced the drugs caused his son's death... I felt sorry for him in his grief but was positive in my own mind at the time that grief was causing him to be there ... and that the drugs had not harmed his son. 

See how stupid I was how uninformed and how much I loved my drug ... there is nothing like having your suffering from taking one psych drug ended by another psych drug to convince one how wonderful the drugs are.  Along with the double speak I was getting and the completeness of the brain washing from media and doctors alike... I was a believer... I believed in my drugs 100% just as he believed in his cause 100% 

 

I thought it sad but I did not believe him... 

What will it take to make people believe us... is the question. ???  I am not sure if this is me talking myself out of protesting or the senselessness in the act or if it is just a triggered memory for one lost man trying to make a statement nobody heard.  I can't say... I know that today I have a completely different take on it... chances are he was right.  

 

It is good to talk about this as we don't seem to be making "fast" head way.  Perhaps the only thing that would work is to have a tipping point be passed where there are more people who have gone thru withdrawal then not... maybe then the ears and eyes will be opened... surely we are getting close to that now. 

 

 

As for who studies drugs other than pharma ... that may be worth looking into.. as I know other institutions do studies..ect but most are tightly bound to pharma for money as when it comes to CA$H Pharma has it all. 

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stan

btdt, you believed in your drug, i understand.

Myself i believed in paxil during 10 years also, for me i feeled something was wrong with paxil , but only after 10 years, i seemed to be in a slow poop out, so i no more believed in drug, and began searching what it was and found only manual Ashton and antidepressantsfact.com, being french, later a website in english, then i believed in ? guess... in Paxilprogress and the big lies of the two Lauries, we heal in 2 or three years and have to do some CBT, after 2 years i was surprised to not have longtermer such as more than 10 years on, on the site; i had doubt when they said the healed lived their new  life and no more come, of course, they are all here...or many...

so i believed in paxil 10 years, then in PP 2 or 3 years, it is 12 years i was off -topic, hope i am no more wrong and will not discover a new thing

Yes, i found success stories , but all the people took only 2, or 4, 5 years, but what about 13 years as i was...and old people

Too many people say the drug helps, is good, the doctor has the knowledge, espescially in France, the world is not ready

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btdt

btdt, you believed in your drug, i understand.

Myself i believed in paxil during 10 years also, for me i feeled something was wrong with paxil , but only after 10 years, i seemed to be in a slow poop out, so i no more believed in drug, and began searching what it was and found only manual Ashton and antidepressantsfact.com, being french, later a website in english, then i believed in ? guess... in Paxilprogress and the big lies of the two Lauries, we heal in 2 or three years and have to do some CBT, after 2 years i was surprised to not have longtermer such as more than 10 years on, on the site; i had doubt when they said the healed lived their new  life and no more come, of course, they are all here...or many...

so i believed in paxil 10 years, then in PP 2 or 3 years, it is 12 years i was off -topic, hope i am no more wrong and will not discover a new thing

Yes, i found success stories , but all the people took only 2, or 4, 5 years, but what about 13 years as i was...and old people

Too many people say the drug helps, is good, the doctor has the knowledge, espescially in France, the world is not ready

I too have walked that road of disillusionment and hope I am no more wrong and will not discover new thing... 

 

maybe when more of the world is in withdrawal than not we will have a change 

 

I think your right the world is not ready.  I wonder if I will be here when it is.... likely not. Time is everything I am sure the rich and powerful that keep the lid on this are way more healthier than I am.  They will bury me for sure it doesn't mean I have to like it. It does not mean I will stop my focus how could I when it will not stop me... 

 

I wonder if wd stopped tomorrow would I walk... I wonder. After all this time I do deserve some time for a life but what kind of a life I wonder... too much for my brain. 

 

I wish you peace Stan maybe some young people will take this up some that will outlive the old power folks lets hope. 

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btdt

btdt, you believed in your drug, i understand.

Myself i believed in paxil during 10 years also, for me i feeled something was wrong with paxil , but only after 10 years, i seemed to be in a slow poop out, so i no more believed in drug, and began searching what it was and found only manual Ashton and antidepressantsfact.com, being french, later a website in english, then i believed in ? guess... in Paxilprogress and the big lies of the two Lauries, we heal in 2 or three years and have to do some CBT, after 2 years i was surprised to not have longtermer such as more than 10 years on, on the site; i had doubt when they said the healed lived their new  life and no more come, of course, they are all here...or many...

so i believed in paxil 10 years, then in PP 2 or 3 years, it is 12 years i was off -topic, hope i am no more wrong and will not discover a new thing

Yes, i found success stories , but all the people took only 2, or 4, 5 years, but what about 13 years as i was...and old people

Too many people say the drug helps, is good, the doctor has the knowledge, espescially in France, the world is not ready

 

Stan I have to ask...why do you say 

"the world is not ready" 

 

The world doesn't know... maybe if they knew they would be ready.  

 

Please explain. 

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westcoast

The world thinks "mental health care" is the cure for mental illness. They fail to see that it is often the cause of it. The man who shot American Sniper Chris Kyle was on at least 11 meds. There are no appropriate meds for PTSD, so you can imagine what a mess his mind was in. Even so, the media doesn't even hint that meds may have caused the psychosis that killed Kyle. (PTSD is not psychosis.)

 

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btdt

I would like to hope that could be changed... and i think psychosis can be part of ptsd not always but ptsd is not a stable disorder it fluctuates... with stress and drug use does affect it I am not saying there is an actual treatment but drugs affect ptsd patients.  11 alone without a dx would be a problem I would think.  There is some discussion on here of drugs causing ptsd. Don't ask me what thread my brain does not do that and I am always lost searching for things here spend half my time here looking for posts in threads I cannot find. It is here some place.

peace

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stan

 

 

 

Stan I have to ask...why do you say 

"the world is not ready" 

 

The world doesn't know... maybe if they knew they would be ready.  

 

Please explain. 

 

Dear btdt,

Accept the doctor is putting you in disaster is not possible for people, people do not trust the true, impossible

my example, i explain to my brother what happen to me, he agree, but 5 years after no med he sees me suffering, so he tells me, you were better on med than today, try to take a little; so even people who have instruction, after several years seeing no real improvement do not trust my theory;

and a doctor saves many lifes, it is not possible they make wrong...(but not on psychotropics!...this is forgetten)

people say if doctor prescribe you brain meds, you had an injury, it is normal you are sick,and you no more take your meds, take your meds!!!!

the success stories in PP are pean ups, ten years website, hundred and hundred of people who are taking and sick, and the total of testimonies is less than 200 , and 90 % took 2, 4, 6 years, where are the 10 years? It is pean ups, nada, que dalle

in America there exist maybe 50 000 psychiatrists, 100000 doctors (i do not know the numbers), the people who say sris are not good are a handful breggin, healy, whitaker and some here and there...maybe total is 100?? it is pean ups, zero

in France i know 2, 3 people and they are not psychiatrists, but we have thousand of psychiatrists who prescribe, and doctors the same and all deny harm from their pills, no lawyer in France, all are happy, all is good, do not change a country of winners...

 

 

so globally i will say billion of people eat brains mads, trillion of doctors and psychiatrist prescribe, and we know only one hundred or 7 hundred(to be kind) who know what it is; it is nada

 

 

how many websites worldwide about??? 3,7 ??? i know one, it is nada,. 2 very small in France(some sufferer between them)... 

 

How many doctors read testimonies, always the three same and it is not sure...

In France two doctors write  books , a reporter also, about the danger; they have difficult life since, and they are not best sellers, nobody wants to read them... i was in a big book shop in Paris several time, i live close to Paris, i was the alone to look the books since time and time, people do not look this

 

i also try to explain with a small website, but often people who read are the same who go on all websites and know what happen, there is no new who is interested, it is same people in withdrawal who read other the websites who exist as i am doing on SA, PP , MAD etc ...

 

We are a stone in Sahara...

so the world is not ready, my opinion

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btdt

Ya I get that I am sure pharma is working real hard to keep it that way too.  So why not keep the other website you were involved in going it was good the international one?

 

Why do you think they had hard life after writing books and doing stories ... do you think our lives....MY life would improve if I left all these sites?

 

I have to ask it is a question that begs to be answered as my life sucks completely and only gets worse being involved... I do wonder. 

 

I am repeatedly asked to star my own website...wd people offer to help when I say I don't have the skill... what do you think of that since you gave up on one already why...?

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stan

Ya I get that I am sure pharma is working real hard to keep it that way too.  So why not keep the other website you were involved in going it was good the international one?

 

Why do you think they had hard life after writing books and doing stories ... do you think our lives....MY life would improve if I left all these sites?

 

I have to ask it is a question that begs to be answered as my life sucks completely and only gets worse being involved... I do wonder. 

 

I am repeatedly asked to star my own website...wd people offer to help when I say I don't have the skill... what do you think of that since you gave up on one already why...?

the other website was create with 4 people toguether, it is not one people who decide, it is common decision.

 

"Why do you think they had hard life after writing books and doing stories"

the people who write are not in withdrawal, never been, it is doctors who are one lungs specialist, the other gynecologue, when you say against your collegues, they push you, you have to say as all, pills do not harm...

if you left all these sites your life will not improve, or all would left, i first, it would be easy the withdrawal...

i think being on websites do not play, some leave some stay, i think each makes what he feels is better for him, you are worse because your brain has difficult to repair, do not forget the pendulum, or rubiks cube, or cycles, nerves heal with waves, remit , never linear; try to study yourself the places fonction where you have improved, 6 years give still hope, it is not much for repair;

you can make a website with some pages, a forum needs much more, money, time, you have to be much healthy, because some people(some are crazy) will eat your energy

and behind the scene, a forum is harrassed by hackers, you need to know a little about all, it is not easy to play webmaster when it is not your job, to update, to play with data bases etc...or make free forums with advertisements, i would not do actually, though i had all the technical ...i am not strong enoughand my english.. only to look on other forums...

you made a website with seemonkey i read, how is he? 100 % healed?? i remember his akathisia, chest etc, i had similar

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btdt

 

Ya I get that I am sure pharma is working real hard to keep it that way too.  So why not keep the other website you were involved in going it was good the international one?

 

Why do you think they had hard life after writing books and doing stories ... do you think our lives....MY life would improve if I left all these sites?

 

I have to ask it is a question that begs to be answered as my life sucks completely and only gets worse being involved... I do wonder. 

 

I am repeatedly asked to star my own website...wd people offer to help when I say I don't have the skill... what do you think of that since you gave up on one already why...?

the other website was create with 4 people toguether, it is not one people who decide, it is common decision.

 

"Why do you think they had hard life after writing books and doing stories"

the people who write are not in withdrawal, never been, it is doctors who are one lungs specialist, the other gynecologue, when you say against your collegues, they push you, you have to say as all, pills do not harm...

if you left all these sites your life will not improve, or all would left, i first, it would be easy the withdrawal...

i think being on websites do not play, some leave some stay, i think each makes what he feels is better for him, you are worse because your brain has difficult to repair, do not forget the pendulum, or rubiks cube, or cycles, nerves heal with waves, remit , never linear; try to study yourself the places fonction where you have improved, 6 years give still hope, it is not much for repair;

you can make a website with some pages, a forum needs much more, money, time, you have to be much healthy, because some people(some are crazy) will eat your energy

and behind the scene, a forum is harrassed by hackers, you need to know a little about all, it is not easy to play webmaster when it is not your job, to update, to play with data bases etc...or make free forums with advertisements, i would not do actually, though i had all the technical ...i am not strong enoughand my english.. only to look on other forums...

you made a website with seemonkey i read, how is he? 100 % healed?? i remember his akathisia, chest etc, i had similar

 

I don't know the fate of the one you call sea money.  

I know it is more than I can do and I say so often.  I don't want to. I think all you say is true and I am not in a place to do it and I don't want to do it... long ago with "seamonkey" it was all that persons who started it and invited me... that is all. 

I have been to many sited all gone now.  I know they have all sorts of trouble staying alive and take a lot of energy.  I have been off effexor 7 years almost 3 months it is not 6 years may have been when I last updated my profile here... it is a long time.  I was on drugs a long time. 

Thank you for answering all my questions and I believe your right if we all got better by leaving forums there would be nobody here... not a soul. Would be an amazingly easy cure tho lol. 

Thank you Stan for your time.  

I wonder how you deal with nobody believing you now... after all this time and suggesting you go back on meds cause you were better on them... that must be a very difficult thing to hear.  I have not heard that too much .. a bit tho and I can't deal with it I get one of two things angry... hurt... it is a difficult situation ... no easy answers. 

I am studying a few different things now thinking I need to do something... but with all the bad reactions I have had... I just don't know what to do... I just don't know I am hoping to find something that points a way a sign post that will hit a few of my issues not just one something that seems right.  So far I have not picked on but am looking seriously at probiotics to start with. That is all I have so far. 

I wish you peace B

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tanit

if everyone of us gives 500 dollars we can raise enough money  for researchers  to help .

why are we waiting ? why not acting ?

We have the possibility to find ways to improve our health why not move beyond waiting and hoping for thing to improve and bring to  ourselves the change we wish to see? 

we could analyze exactly what is wrong with us through very advanced techniques and then reverse it.

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Wildflower0214

Most of us are unable to work and are either living off of the charity of family or on disability. We don't have 500 dollars laying around.

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mammaP

My eyes just popped...$500, that is an enormous amount of money for those who can't work. And the researchers would have to believe in what they are researching, then pharmaceuticals would be involved making drugs to reverse the damage they have caused. I wish it was  possible, sometime in the future maybe someone will sponsor the research but not yet, the momentum is speeding up and more and more people are finding forums online so word is getting around but for now big pharma has the upper hand and will cling on tight, it will take more money than we have to sort this mess out. Until then we have to take care of ourselves and allow our bodies and brains to heal themselves and regrow.  I admire your fighting spirit Tanit, you will go far. 

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tanit

big pharma will never make antidotes .I know that because Iam not in the field .

Idon`t know but comparing to what we endure 500 dollars is nothing 

I will give up my appartement if this can return my health.

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Petunia

Similar topic moved from symptoms and merged.

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jthebrave

Why should these giant pharma companies, and the billions they make off these drugs, get away with hurting people so badly? The fact that most of these drugs cause suicidal tendencies to worsen in already severely depressed patients...what does that tell us? Ten years ago black box warnings never even existed until lawsuits came flying at big pharma. The fact that doctors and psychiatrists don't even KNOW how to treat severe or even minor protracted withdrawal yet?? The drug companies and doctors are obligated to give those who are suffering safe treatment options for prolonged withdrawal! If I were wealthy or a lawyer, I would do it in a heartbeat. I am grateful there are at least some doctors on these drugs today....because God forbid one of them ever experiences protracted WD like we do or have...can you imagine the hell he or she would/should raise? Perhaps that's what it will take.

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stan

if everyone of us gives 500 dollars we can raise enough money  for researchers  to help .

why are we waiting ? why not acting ?

We have the possibility to find ways to improve our health why not move beyond waiting and hoping for thing to improve and bring to  ourselves the change we wish to see? 

we could analyze exactly what is wrong with us through very advanced techniques and then reverse it.

my opinion:

the pill makes a lot of disorders in brain, the researchers will only be able to find a new pill which will make a lot of different disorders, so the final will be disorders + disorders= more disorders, a pill cannot know what replace and where, the pill is not enough intelligent

only the brain can replace, and he takes years for that, the researchers can only maybe find a pill who will just help a little,

but no need to make research, a good food, no stress are already helping the brain to heal

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antidepressantsNoMore

It's all about money sadly. I personally believe anxiety and depression can be managed through certain supplements, therapy, exercise, diet and some other natural ways. However, illnesses like bi-polar and more severe ones often require medication which are often controlled substances. Now, I know lithium is available legally online and I'm guessing it is the same lithium prescribed by doctors but this medication should be monitored because it can affect the kidneys. However, most psychotics require a rx. (I'm not talking about people who buy sugar pills overseas that are labeled to be rx).

 

I hate anti-depressants though, I've tried 'em all from prozac, zoloft, lexapro, prestiq etc

I've tried mood stablizers when I was younger and had a bad temper, probably didn't even need them like lamictal (sorry if I spelled it wrong) but it did nothing.

I've tried benzo's which I have to say could be a miracle or cure. Klonopin kills anxiety but looks what happens to so many people, they become dependent and the w/d's can actually kill you.

Then we having sleep-aids like ambien. I do not know how any of you take that crap lol, I took it and slept all night and into the next day. I felt like a zombie. But I guess some people can tolerate it and actually need it because of severe insomnia issues.

 

So while some medications that big pharma produces and sells works and actually helps people, the majority of them don't. Because it seems like their biggest sellers are anti-depressants because depression is so common in our society. That's their marketing tool/sales pitch and it obviously works because docs will put you on an anti-depressant in a heart beat. All you say is you feel down, have low energy, feel hopeless, or had a bad few weeks. Now tell me that's not some unethnical practice.

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InvisibleUnless

it is illegal to legitimately/publishably research the negative effects of most psych meds, at least here in the US.  patent copyright/intellectual property is one of the main artifices propping up class stratification and greed-as-merit sociopolitical hegemony, and prevents almost all inquiry into the dangers of substances like manufactured psychotropic medications and genetically modified foods.  (and, for the double-bind, research into alternatives to these capitalistic powerhouses is often restricted or made completely illegal, like studies on most natural psychotropic compounds and previous-generation, wider-affect synthesized medicative substances.)

 

the funding of research is a subsidiary concern, which is also quite serious, but very secondary to the virtual impossibility of getting a company to allow research into its compounds if its fingers arent in the pie (or it cant mix in some secret ingredients before the taste-test).  this is a dire issue, but for both sides---this is our lives versus their livelihoods, and they are willing to go to the full length of the criminal spectrum to make sure their livelihoods come out on top.  perpetual fraud, marketing scams, and all manner of illegal professional conduct are only the tip of the iceberg, as harassment, murder, corruption, coverup, tampering with evidence, and every other conceivable method practical to ensuring the domination of the pharmaceutical approach to health have been publicized, to limited social affect, in the media already.

 

on the other hand, i feel these contributions above me mention an important thing: this can only ever be temporary.  slowly, very slowly, the public is catching on to the facade, and rules are changing, attitudes are adjusting, people are growing.  there have been snake-oil salesmen since the dawn of time, and a globalized, governmentally consolidated and institutionalized snake-oil industry is more long-lived than a traveling peddler who can be kicked out of a village (or have his teeth kicked in by a rowdy crowd or humorless patron), but i think we, as humans, yearn for something more, as a fundamental aspect of our nature.  we do not indefinitely abide the usury and devilry comprising the main complements of the pharmacology industry and culture, even if it takes a while for people to fully turn the tables.

 

the popularization of litigation largely revolves around the game of bait and switch, so we cannot rely on billion-dollar settlements and oversight commissions to fix these flaws that are built, with purpose, into the system itself.  i think the change starts places like here: we need grassroots community and the dissemination of empowering information.  only personal meaning and productive education can drive movements that oppose the very foundations of our daily social contracts.  things like the protests mentioned earlier in the thread can sometimes bring an awareness or attentiveness, but i think its not usually a productive or incisive way to further the knowledge of institutionalized abuse, for a variety of reasons.

 

----------

 

for the record, i am willing to submit data and experiences to researchers towards the end of expanding the accepted understanding of side effects and withdrawal.  i can be PMed for contact information should such a happening ever arise.  i have read published studies that evaluate symptoms and risks partly drawing on the self-reporting found on places like this board, so i do believe in the potential for these havens, and open offers, to make a difference in the scheme of things.

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btdt

it is illegal to legitimately/publishably research the negative effects of most psych meds, at least here in the US.  patent copyright/intellectual property is one of the main artifices propping up class stratification and greed-as-merit sociopolitical hegemony, and prevents almost all inquiry into the dangers of substances like manufactured psychotropic medications and genetically modified foods.  (and, for the double-bind, research into alternatives to these capitalistic powerhouses is often restricted or made completely illegal, like studies on most natural psychotropic compounds and previous-generation, wider-affect synthesized medicative substances.)

 

the funding of research is a subsidiary concern, which is also quite serious, but very secondary to the virtual impossibility of getting a company to allow research into its compounds if its fingers arent in the pie (or it cant mix in some secret ingredients before the taste-test).  this is a dire issue, but for both sides---this is our lives versus their livelihoods, and they are willing to go to the full length of the criminal spectrum to make sure their livelihoods come out on top.  perpetual fraud, marketing scams, and all manner of illegal professional conduct are only the tip of the iceberg, as harassment, murder, corruption, coverup, tampering with evidence, and every other conceivable method practical to ensuring the domination of the pharmaceutical approach to health have been publicized, to limited social affect, in the media already.

 

on the other hand, i feel these contributions above me mention an important thing: this can only ever be temporary.  slowly, very slowly, the public is catching on to the facade, and rules are changing, attitudes are adjusting, people are growing.  there have been snake-oil salesmen since the dawn of time, and a globalized, governmentally consolidated and institutionalized snake-oil industry is more long-lived than a traveling peddler who can be kicked out of a village (or have his teeth kicked in by a rowdy crowd or humorless patron), but i think we, as humans, yearn for something more, as a fundamental aspect of our nature.  we do not indefinitely abide the usury and devilry comprising the main complements of the pharmacology industry and culture, even if it takes a while for people to fully turn the tables.

 

the popularization of litigation largely revolves around the game of bait and switch, so we cannot rely on billion-dollar settlements and oversight commissions to fix these flaws that are built, with purpose, into the system itself.  i think the change starts places like here: we need grassroots community and the dissemination of empowering information.  only personal meaning and productive education can drive movements that oppose the very foundations of our daily social contracts.  things like the protests mentioned earlier in the thread can sometimes bring an awareness or attentiveness, but i think its not usually a productive or incisive way to further the knowledge of institutionalized abuse, for a variety of reasons.

 

----------

 

for the record, i am willing to submit data and experiences to researchers towards the end of expanding the accepted understanding of side effects and withdrawal.  i can be PMed for contact information should such a happening ever arise.  i have read published studies that evaluate symptoms and risks partly drawing on the self-reporting found on places like this board, so i do believe in the potential for these havens, and open offers, to make a difference in the scheme of things.

Ok I think your making an offer to gather information is that correct... and do what with it? 

 

Sorry my brain is half working reading is a rough spot could you say this in simple short sentences... please. 

 

Oddly enough the bit I can respond to well today is this 

" globalized, governmentally consolidated and institutionalized snake-oil industry is more long-lived than a traveling peddler who can be kicked out of a village (or have his teeth kicked in by a rowdy crowd or humorless patron),"

 

I think I am the humorless patron... though I don't have the energy to kick anyone... not even pharma today.

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InvisibleUnless

ah, no, not quite---i was offering my information and experiences, but am not personally qualified for creating bodies of research or working from the academic side of things.  researchers can investigate the qualities of medications, but only subjects/patients have the real beef on the worst case scenarios.

 

so, to be extra clear: im just another schmuck like most on here.  theres no need to apologize for reading/writing or comprehension problems; ive got them as well.

 

if i had the time and energy, id consider being a person that consolidates the experiences of others for publication or analysis and publishing by actual doctors and people in the medical field.  but, that is not really where my passions lie, and i have no meaningful 'in' with the medical establishment anyway.

 

i feel grassroots efforts are a good primary goal.  places like this board, but also places that offer a variety of philosophical alternatives to pharmacology within plain sight of suffering individuals would make a bigger difference than another law suit or slanted news story.

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akakoom

I think the first step would be to just gather.  has anyone tried making a meetup?

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Muddles

I have a friend who has been suffering with prolonged SSRI withdrawal. He has a friend who is a neuro-scientist and is in the process of writing a book on just how these drugs change the brain.

 

The only way we would ever know just how these drugs can damage the brain is by autopsy.

Although - as a sufferer....I have been researching the brain function, nervous system etc and figured out myself just about everything I need to know :-(

 

It's about time they started listening.

 

I would love to have enough money to pay someone to do a documentary. Get Dr Breggin, Shipko, Healy etc to take part. There are obvioulsy many here that would take part and share their story.

 

But again...it's about the money. A lot of us are not able to work.

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InvisibleUnless

I think the first step would be to just gather.  has anyone tried making a meetup?

 

there seems to be a series of location threads partially geared towards that notion in one of these forum sections.  i would suppose in-person interactions could facilitate different thoughts and methods than online conversing, but both seem valuable.

 

I have a friend who has been suffering with prolonged SSRI withdrawal. He has a friend who is a neuro-scientist and is in the process of writing a book on just how these drugs change the brain.

 

The only way we would ever know just how these drugs can damage the brain is by autopsy.

Although - as a sufferer....I have been researching the brain function, nervous system etc and figured out myself just about everything I need to know :-(

 

It's about time they started listening.

 

I would love to have enough money to pay someone to do a documentary. Get Dr Breggin, Shipko, Healy etc to take part. There are obvioulsy many here that would take part and share their story.

 

But again...it's about the money. A lot of us are not able to work.

 

if enough people are serious about collaborating on it, we could begin work on at least compiling a significant resource that can be utilized by any person or persons who may take up the task at some point.

 

we can discuss self-interview questions and other ways of documenting our experiences in useful and interactive ways that could be a great starting point for someone looking to expose the nature of these things to a more public eye.

 

documentaries are, so far as i understand, a tricky beast---you need to decide just what your angle is in producing a film that has whatever particular content.  is this an emotivist plea? a scientific evaluation?  a sociological examination with a personal point of view?  etc.  a lot of these choices are usually best to make beforehand so the proper shots, subjects, framing, and materials can be gathered during production.  since we cant really account for what may or may not ever materialize on that front, we are best off finding ways that can most expressively and holistically document what is important to each of us as individuals in the experience.

 

we already have a great database going here for a lot of withdrawal topics, like supplements, scientific notation of symptoms, doctors and lawyers abnormally versed in the subject matter, etc, so a big part of having a consolidated output is just compiling all this disparate information into a streamlined, digestible format and media narrative---a documentarian would have significantly less independent research and legwork to do in preparation if we gathered enough.

 

low-cost documentaries are possible, especially if you dont require all sorts of fancy CGI demonstrations, high cost key note speakers, and prohibitive travel/locations/shooting permits.  if individuals are interested, having a self-recorded (or family/friend/partner-recorded) video testimony from each member could be part of collecting materials for editing.  all sorts of different narrative styles can contribute to a colorful documentary, like storytelling, panel discussion, personal interview, non-preformatted lifestyle documentation, etc.  quality of capture and portrayal can impact the overall pull of a documentary, but sometimes uniformity of interview footage quality and setting is a detractor rather than a strength.  this patchwork project would have to find its own identity and try to best work with what we have available.

 

 

 

so i reiterate: if there is meaningful and serious interest in working towards some form of media presentation, i am in.  i struggle a lot myself, with energy, time, coherent thought, etc, but i am serious and determined when i choose to work on something, and i have some very limited (and definitely not career/professional) media experience.  as both you, Muddles, and akakoom have stated, the first step is having an open discussion with potentially interested parties (or those who wish to contribute ideologically even if they cant or wish not to contribute their personal stories).  we can see what direction we would like to take such a thing, and decide on some steps to take.

 

there are alternative funding methods, like kickstarter type websites, but i think our social networking is our strongest suit in this, even if most of us are struggling to even keep our lives somewhat together right now.  we might have connections, be they relatives, friends, school buddies, coworkers, etc that have more experience or ability than we do, and eliciting volunteer or low-cost services from these individuals is a very practical way to bring something more qualitatively appreciable to the table.  in this age of cheap technology and massive interconnection, the most important impetus behind a project or idea is creative thinkers.  all material and practical considerations are problems to be solved, not obstacles presenting themselves in addition to the thoughtpower of our team.

 

we are a tenacious bunch, and i think we have something to say and do about our experiences.

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Cdav

I wish this could be possible. It will be necessary after more and more people present with problems. 

 

However, I wonder why do so many people benefit from these drugs? I know first hand from my mother and brother, both with very bad mental illness, to be much happier and living better lives with medication. My mother is no longer psychotic, no longer talks to voices in her head and is no longer severely depressed. My brother was able to put his life together when the doctor put him on meds (diagnosed bipolar, had trouble with illegal drugs and alcohol). They do have some side effects and I always ask them why they put up with the side effects, and their answer is they prefer the S/E than suffering their illnesses. They do not act flat or zombie-like, they are loving, caring, responsible people and I thank God they were able to find something to work for them. 

 

The one that was unlucky was me, because these meds used to help me, but then harm from WD cause polydrugging and many adverse reactions and further damage. I've been dealing with this harm for a long time. I struggle with my depression and I struggle with WD. 

 

So many of us are unlucky and so damaged, but many others are saved by these meds. 

 

I hate the meds because of what they did to me, but it if wasn't for her meds, my mom wouldn't be able to take care of me right now, and would be suffering. 

 

Still, I hope someday someone does sponsor a cure for all of us that are suffering from the adverse reactions and WD. Something has to be done about this but as long as there isn't money behind it, it is difficult for it to happen. 

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InvisibleUnless

change in things like this will be due to attrition, i think.  right now, its still pretty much a boon to push psychotropic pharmaceuticals, but people are becoming increasingly disillusioned with them and marginally more aware of the dangers of their widespread, and often unnecessary, usage.  itll take more than just a few years, or even a decade, for the public opinion to shift more in favor of something different or new for the money to flow from, but i think we have already passed the peak of SSRI popularity, even though companies are finding new and unscrupulous ways to add to their consumer base still.  but, to a degree, antidepressants were a huge fad starting in the 80s that met a cultural need more than a biological one, and as culture is shifting towards new ways of meeting needs, and new ways of framing needs, i think the drug companies will have less pull.  whether or not the depth of suffering withdrawal patients go through ever becomes relevant to the everyday citizen is less known, and i sort of doubt itll become a common knowledge sort of thing in this generation of humans.

 

and the observed situational benefits of these drugs is part of why they enjoy such longevity.  as long as people have some personally relatable cases of them working good in the lives of people they care about, that emotional content is superior to scientific studies, random internet people talking about the horrors of their botched treatment, and news stories about death and dismemberment.  humans are far more particular, unique, and complicated than modern science gives them credit for, and we overreach in our claims about 'understanding' stuff like DNA, neurofunctioning, and medication efficacy.  part of that is just the media and capitalistic spin required for launching any massively successful brand, and doesnt really speak to the morals of many of the scientists involved, but part of it definitely lies on the shoulders of people doing work they know is purposely obscuring the truth, and dangers, or people doing honest work for companies that will surely be manipulating the output to trick and bilk customers and investors.

 

but, your experiences with relatives are exactly why most anti-psych med professionals still say that there are uncommon situations in which perhaps the meds we have now ARE a better answer than many alternatives.  they still arent great, or a miracle cure, or without their risks and dangers, but if they help some people, to some degrees, at some times...why not let those people have the choice.  whether or not those cases could be treated just as well through other means unavailable or not yet suggested to them, i cannot really say.  but, the majority of western medicine basically follows the principle of making stuff just worse enough to hopefully make you better.  theres always a cost to manufactured cures and treatments.  antibiotics can eliminate some really serious and deadly infections...but they also cause tons of systemic problems for people while doing so.  medical treatment is a balance of things with that sort of approach, and sometimes doctors are too cavalier to acknowledge that in their prescriptions and recommendations.

 

a lot of statistics say that its usually only about 20% of us that experience serious side effects and/or prolonged withdrawal...and some might think, for example, that an 80% cure rate for AIDS would be absolutely spectacular.  but most people arent 'cured' of depression by meds, though some are helped along towards recovery, and 20% uncured is quite different from 20% suffering for years, even to the point of suicide or systemic failure and semi-permanent disability.  1 in 5 is a huge number...but 4 in 5 is a lot more money.  we arent ignored, we are quite consciously and purposefully marginalized.  there is a lot more variety in human beings than we tend to think, and reactions to such volatile substances as psychotropics are bound to include much more significant problems in people who are more sensitive or more vulnerable to certain kinds of chemical assaults or enacted imbalances.  its about our brains, our bodies, and a lot of things we dont always have control over, in addition to things like psychological state, environment, and diet.  one-size-fits-all medicine is great for insurance companies raking in the money, but terrible for patient standards of care and quality of life.

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Cdav

InvisibleUnless, 

 

Great post and way to put in words this situation. Us, the minority are certainly marginalized.  

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btdt

I have a friend who has been suffering with prolonged SSRI withdrawal. He has a friend who is a neuro-scientist and is in the process of writing a book on just how these drugs change the brain.

 

The only way we would ever know just how these drugs can damage the brain is by autopsy.

Although - as a sufferer....I have been researching the brain function, nervous system etc and figured out myself just about everything I need to know :-(

 

It's about time they started listening.

 

I would love to have enough money to pay someone to do a documentary. Get Dr Breggin, Shipko, Healy etc to take part. There are obvioulsy many here that would take part and share their story.

 

But again...it's about the money. A lot of us are not able to work.

There have been studies on the brains of animals at autopsy you will not find them online at this point they have disappeared truthfully Muddles I have no reason to lie about this.  The sites that are gone had the goods they copied the articles both are closed down that started a long time ago. 

 

There have been documentaries too and an series of shows done in Britain I can't recall the name at this point. I fail to see how they did not make any difference but they didn't not to the big picture. 

 

Research on the other had if it were done by the right people and we could keep it from being corrupted that could possibly make them listen. Grace E Jackson has a book I think it is worth reading she has at least two but I do not have the brain power to understand it... tell you friend of a friend to take a look at her. 

 

As for raising money... maybe we need an online company... where we would all volunteer out time and efforts to raise the money... every cent to go to research... crowd source lol ... I know.  I am grasping at straws but straws are all I have left. 

 

I wish you all peace. 

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btdt

I wish this could be possible. It will be necessary after more and more people present with problems. 

 

However, I wonder why do so many people benefit from these drugs? I know first hand from my mother and brother, both with very bad mental illness, to be much happier and living better lives with medication. My mother is no longer psychotic, no longer talks to voices in her head and is no longer severely depressed. My brother was able to put his life together when the doctor put him on meds (diagnosed bipolar, had trouble with illegal drugs and alcohol). They do have some side effects and I always ask them why they put up with the side effects, and their answer is they prefer the S/E than suffering their illnesses. They do not act flat or zombie-like, they are loving, caring, responsible people and I thank God they were able to find something to work for them. 

 

The one that was unlucky was me, because these meds used to help me, but then harm from WD cause polydrugging and many adverse reactions and further damage. I've been dealing with this harm for a long time. I struggle with my depression and I struggle with WD. 

 

So many of us are unlucky and so damaged, but many others are saved by these meds. 

 

I hate the meds because of what they did to me, but it if wasn't for her meds, my mom wouldn't be able to take care of me right now, and would be suffering. 

 

Still, I hope someday someone does sponsor a cure for all of us that are suffering from the adverse reactions and WD. Something has to be done about this but as long as there isn't money behind it, it is difficult for it to happen. 

I wonder about this too perhaps only a large number of autopsies will give us the answer.  I wonder too if these people who are helped by drugs will have a day of reckoning... where the drugs no longer help and they are just polly drugged till they die. I have watched it happen to some people they are none the wiser and go out still trusting their drugs. So don't kid yourself it is possible there is zero awareness about the truth of the situation as you or I would see it. They believe their dx changes and becomes more extensive every decade with more and more drugs needed to treat failing health... with many other disorders to blame their unhappiness on and many more drug side effects to list as causes... they never know.  They never know their drug may be their problem eventually old age if they are lucky gets added to the list and while they see others their age living good lives they think they are just unlucky. And around we go it is quite possible for us to never be truly heard for this to continue long after we are dead and this site is long gone. Not something any of us want to think about but if you look around and back ... every site like this thought they were going to change the world and they didn't change much in the long run a few things yes... but not the fact that more and more people are put on these drugs every day and not that fact that the serious side effects and withdrawal are still down played if not ignored by the mainstream. 

I am not saying it is worth nothing small changes are small changes and they count but the amount of effort that it takes to over come a minute of marking.. is very unequal ... for solid change there needs to be solid science getting it costs money. Will and who know what all else and you have to know that pharma would be in opposition ............. stack the deck a 100 times against it ever happening. They have friends in high places to get them to bow down and join our cause... would that be a dream... sure would will it ever happen I can't imagine it. That would be something I may just pray about as I can't imagine it coming any other way it would have to be a miracle. 

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InvisibleUnless

good parrying here.  i think our experiences make us best suited, for the most part, for helping other individuals in our position, as opposed to somehow preventing things in the bigger picture.  that takes an entirely different skillset and life position.

 

i largely agree with your noting that nothing short of significant research and $$$ will turn the tables, but i have to add that...most scientific research in the health field is basically just bogus.  people find what they want to find, and are paid to look for what large interest groups are looking for.  some can be helpful or interesting, or spur further questions or procedures that can be helpful steps, but the system of research and publishing in place currently is essentially incapable of making true and sweeping statements about public health or the scientific properties of physiological functioning.  its all just marketing, even if there is methodology mixed in.

 

marketing does very much sway public opinion and where dollars are invested, but thinking that our experiencing negative side effects will mean that study would vindicate us or change the world situation is not necessarily realistic.  and in most developed countries, research would be hobbled by the drug companies themselves.  im not knowledgeable about the issue, but id imagine, as i first stated in this thread, that legal rights to compounds in SSRIs and other drugs would have to be acquired before in depth study could take place.  "proving" something meaningfully through research requires a very stringent manner of gathering data and excluding potential factors of influence, and data collection and analysis that doesnt directly take into account the chemical side of things would probably be viewed with crippling skepticism or dismissal.

 

a huge part of the reason why most people are kept in the dark is that using drugs on people that are already sick, which is the case of most psychotropics (and even the unsick ones are usually categorized as sick anyway), creates massive plausible deniability of wrongdoing or harm on the part of medical practitioners, drugs, and companies.  people arent in denial because there simply arent the facts present, people are in denial because it serves their worldview and perceived interests best.  the drug companies know everything is fkkked, and have done their best to hide that information.  people arent at a loss for data here, really.  whether that is more frustrating a situation or less frustrating, i really dont know.

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btdt

Exactly why it all needs to change it is not working

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