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Freedom15

Freedom15: reinstated amitriptyline after CT by doctor

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Freedom15

Just checking it to where i am at.

 

Currently going to 0.25mg tonight in home made liquid form

 

Sedation/anistetic propertys still high at even this low dose making me tired all day and head and face feels numb still reducing through day but never going to normal.

 

Pins and needles in feet/hands face and lips.

 

Blurry eyesight which changes through the day.

 

Headaches and pain that gos acros brain and back neck that gets worse by end day.

 

Actual emotional condition seems to be improving slowly. Always dips when i reduce for about 4 days then base lines out.

 

Tremours seem to be better but still there especaly on reduction meds or later in the day near dose time.

 

Reduction seems slow now at the lower doses altho i will continue on at no more than 10% and currently able to achive holds between 1-2 weeks between drops.

 

About 5 weeks till the mortage people will be looking at reprossesion of my house so will just try live everyday the best i can and not overly worry.

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Sarabera

Hi Freedom, you are passing me up! I got down to .25 mg. but I wasn't sleeping well, so I updosed to .375 mg and I'm going to hold for a while until I feel like my sleep is better. The other annoying symptom I am having is teeth grinding and tapping (during the day, not during sleep!). That's interesting that you still feel the sedation, I actually don't even notice the drug effects, no matter when I dose it.

Sarah

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Freedom15

Hi Sarabera

 

Yer its really strange that i am still effected at what would be considered a very lower dose. It just go's to show how wrong this medication was for me and prob why ended up a complete mess being CT from 20mg.

 

I never had any of this for first 11 months it was only once i reduced the dose by 5mg under the doctors orders before the CT that i woke up into some kinda bad dream to all the effects.

 

I had sleep issues when i was CT as didnt sleep for 2-3 weeks altho now i am ok with sleeping.

 

Not sure what will happen once i get to as close as 0 as i can.

 

Forgot to mention my gums are shoot they have really receded over last 12 months due to dry mouth i would presume.

 

Glad to hear altho you have the teeth grinding and tapping generally you are feeling ok now.

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Freedom15

Dropping down to 0.19mg tonight so its a bit of a mile stone that i am out the 2's now.

 

Reduction will peak about day 3-4 then will stabilise again at day 5.

 

Been pritty clockwork with this most way down.

 

Been doing a lot of cycling now and this seems to be really helping with feeling better and taking my mind of the daily stuff that happens still.

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Freedom15

Held for 2 weeks because it didnt feel right doing a weekly drop last time for some reason.

 

Dropping tonight to 0.17mg.

 

Medication still has massive anesthetic effect at such low dose which wears slightly over the day. 

 

Alot of the side effects i have had are either from that or the anticholinergic effects of the drug.

 

Has been so long that i havnt felt well will seem strange when finally get off the meds.

 

I will continue on as that is all that can be done and live in hope that i will recover from this ordeal.

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scallywag

Hi Freedom,

 

It's rotten that you're feeling the withdrawal from anafranil so much. I've pulled your taper data from your signature and made it in a list format:

01.01.2016 0.9mg
17.01.2016 0.8mg
01.02.2016 0.7mg
08.02.2016 0.6mg
14.02.2016 0.5mg
21.02.2016 0.4mg
01.03.2016 0.4mg changed to liquid 1:1 ratio  
08.03.2016 0.38mg
15.03.2016 0.36mg
20.03.2016 0.35mg
27.03.2016 0.32mg
08.04.2016 0.29mg
14.04.2016 0.27mg
23.04.2016 0.25mg  
30.04.2016 0.23mg
07.05.2016 0.21mg
14.05.2016 0.19mg
28.05.2016 0.17mg

 

It looks as if you've been cutting 10% every week or every 2 weeks. Have you given any thought to whether some symptoms might be caused by the pace of your taper?

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Freedom15

Hi Scallywag

 

Yep i have been droping either weekly or 2 weeks like say.

 

Its been a fine line between reduction and the daily side effects of the medication.

 

Since i was reinstated onto the medication in 2014 i have struggled with the side effects as they have been

totally different to when i was first on the meds.

 

The main thing has been the sedation/anesthetic effect and the side effects associated with that.

 

Things have got easier with reduction its just when you have lived so long drugged up it seems like never ending cycle of mess.

 

I generally bounce back to what i would consider my base line with all the mess after 4-5 days if this doesnt happen thats when i

extend to 2 weeks.

 

TBH i dont think if held for month and then reduced i would be any different because the reduction is always the same

process.

 

I dont think my true recovery will start untill i am fully of the medication. Its just getting me to that point were i am not in cronic withdrawl

like when the doctors CT me before.

 

The positive things that are happening within all this is i am having no big waves symtoms and no suicidle ideation. this is a key trigger

for me to be worried if this was happening and would defornatly hold if this was happening.

 

I will consider your suggestion about pace of taper tho as i am open to what people say.

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scallywag

There are 2 ways to slow the pace: change the interval to 3 weeks or drop the %cut.  As I said you're now doing 0.02 mg or 10% per week or fortnight. Only you know if a smaller amount, 0.01 mg or 5%, makes sense.

 

I hate how these drugs put people in such difficult spots -- symptoms of staying on the drug vs symptoms of withdrawing.  Best of luck negotiating the space between that rock and that hard place.

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Altostrata

Sounds like smaller reductions of maybe 5% every 2 weeks or so might be more tolerable, as scallywag noted.

 

Depending on your symptom pattern, which you seem to know well, you might be able to reduce 5% every week, with occasional holds for your nervous system to catch up.

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Freedom15

I will prob try holding for 2 weeks at at time now as weekly feels like its pushing it a bit and try a couple 5% reductions and

see if that helps any.

 

I did do 5% reductions when i was at the higher dose as that was more tolerable with the quicker reductions.

 

On a positive note taken up cycling which seems to be helping with taking my mind of things and also i think its helping with my fitness

as i had put a fair bit of weight on with meds and not working

 

Find out about my house being reprosssed in next few weeks so that ordeal is next to deal with.

 

Just seems like lot loss due to the meds issue.

 

Will bounce back for sure just some days it doesnt feel that way.

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Freedom15

Decided to try reducing at 5% now as suggested so going to 0.01mg reductions.

 

Will hold for 1-2 weeks depending on symptoms and how feel.

 

As of the 20th of this month the mortgage people will be starting repossession procedding of my home so will be homeless in about 8-12 weeks.

 

Will have to apply to council as homeless so hopefully something will get sorted.

 

Its sad having to pack up all my belongings and is another loss to add to the pot of the meds devistation.

 

At least i am in a position to be able to deal with this now as if happened while back it would been harder.

 

Still live in hope that one day i will be off this stuff and be able to be me again.

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Freedom15

Made it down to 0.1mg now.

 

 

Its just so mad at how powerfull this medication is still at such a low dose.

 

Feeling fairly stable in my moods just all the physical thats happening.

 

Fell like its the home run now for the reduction.

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Freedom15

Went to the dentist on monday and the positive thing is the damage to my gums is starting to stabilise.

 

It will never repair it self altho its not geting worse.

 

This is positive because they was wanting to remove my front tooth because the gums had receded really badly with the meds.

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scallywag

I was really lucky -- The dental hygienist I see noticed that something had changed in my mouth at the first appointment after I had started  Cymbalta.  She asked if I had started any medications. When I said yes and told her the drug and the reason, she recommended oral hygiene products (Biotene -- don't know if they're available in the UK) that minimize periodontic and dental complications of dry mouth. When I use them consistently I get at least a silver star at my next appointment.

 

Never say never about your gums recovering:  My hygienist recently remarked that I had significant recovery from a borderline serious periodontic condition 6 months ago.

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Altostrata

Wow! You're down to 0.09mg now? Are you still feeling the reductions?

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Freedom15

@scallywag thanks for your words regarding my gums. It was hard just watching them recead massively over a period of year.

 

Not sure if biotene is avalible in the uk and when i see the hygenist the other day she was aware of the medication causing it but didnt come up with anything to counter act it.

 

@Altostrata

 

I am still feeling taking the medication and also when reducing.

 

Its still the local anistectic effects that seems to be causing the biggest issues and side effects.

 

The reductions are like clockwork still

 

Mental side things is stable just all physical mostly.

 

No sign of any waves stopped quite few months ago.

 

Will just keep chipping away to as close 0mg as i can get.

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scallywag

Freedom -- I guess the manufacturers haven't been sending reps to dental office ... Yet. s. ;)

 

I just did a web search and the NHS site has a page on dry mouth that mentions over-the-counter products.

 

If you try them I've found the toothpaste and the gel the most useful.  The toothpaste uses a less drying formula, and the gel is great to use before bed to reduce the overnight.

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Freedom15

I will have a look thanks

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Freedom15

Just an update on where i am at.

 

Currently at 0.05mg dose.

 

Mediacation side effects still high at this dose.

 

Numbness across head face and brain/back head.

Pins needles in hands and feet and across lips and face.

Stability of mood is ok with no extreme waves altho through day i do feel up/down

low energy and feeling tired all time.

Sedation/anistetic of drug high morning and slow wearing near off till next dose.

Pain in head/brain worse by end day.

 

Still amazed at how this is like this at such low dose.

 

Possible going to have to change how make up meds to different ratio to allow me keep within 10% reduction at sucj low dose now.

Currently making 1:1 ratio very small amount in 1mg syringe so may have go to 1:2 or more.

 

Any advice on this matter would be appricated as i have currently been doing 0.01mg reductions but i think these are going outside the 10% now.

 

As 0.05 next reduction would be 0.045 unsure how measure this in the syringe ??

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scallywag

Freedom15 -- Most likely the symptoms are not adverse effects of the drug, they're caused by your CNS (central nervous system) adjusting to lower and lower doses of of the drug.

How your brain responds to psychiatric drugs - aka "Brain remodeling"

 

How about changing the ratio of water to medication?  If you double the amount of water in which you dissolve the powder or tablet, the equivalent dose would be 0.09 ml.  Goodness, you even use 10 times the amount of water to make it even easier.

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Freedom15

Hi Scallywag

 

Thanks for your reply and also for the link to the post about brain remodeling.

 

I think i will do what you said and just alter the water ratio to the tablet to get the right dose.

 

Has been easy with the 1:1 ratio so i am sure i can work it with adjusting the water.

 

appricated

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Freedom15

Have decided to hold this week and not reduce.

 

After my friends felt i was in a mess last week on thurday and with the dose reductions being a little higher than 10% i prob think its best.

 

I have not been one for holding and need to learn that this is also part of the healing process.

 

After reading the brain remodeling thing also this lead me to decide to hold.

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ChessieCat

It's good to hear that you understand that holding is a necessary part of this process.  I found the Brain Remodeling helpful as well as this one Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Both of these have kept me from trying to taper too quickly or, when I get fed up with it, go cold turkey.  Do nothing is actually doing something, because it is allowing the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  The frustrating part is that we can't see what is happening.  I think that is why the Rubik's cube analogy really makes sense to me.

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Freedom15

Hi Chessiecat

 

Thanks i think its just when you are so unwell everyday with what these meds do you want out of it.

 

I think a hold will do me both mentally and physically the world of good and if i can just try stay focused on that then i will be ok.

 

I dont even know if i am in windows or waves tbh at moment all i know is that i havn't had extreme withdrawl or suicidla ideation and i am able to function

to do things altho the physical stuff is quite hard mainly the numbness and crailing/pins and neddles across head and face and hands.

 

I have been reducing on mondays so i while hold.

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scallywag

Holding at a dose is like the oven time with baking.  Even if you're hungry, it's best to wait for the ingredients to respond to the heat.

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Freedom15

Just a question i have been making up the liquid with distilled water and then storing for 7 days in brown glass bottle in the fridge before making another batch and used to

do the reduction on the fresh made.

 

Do you think storing it for 7 days is to long ? as maybe its going off over that time..

 

Just thought check this out

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ChessieCat

See my green highlighting from post #1:  Tips for tapering off amitriptyline

 

Dissolving amitriptyline in water to make a liquid

About basic amitriptyline in tablets: Manzo 2006 Biowaiver Monographs for Immediate Release Solid Oral Dosage Forms: Amitriptyline Hydrochloride http://www.fip.org/f.../Manzo 2006.pdf

Quote

Amitriptyline hydrochloride is soluble 1:1 in water.11 The USP and the Ph. Eur. report this API to be ‘‘freely soluble in water’’.

 

How stable is this solution of amitriptyline in water? See Buckles 2008 The stability of amitriptyline hydrochloride in aqueous solution http://onlinelibrary...0052.x/abstract

Quote

The present work, using thin layer chromatography and polarography, reports that solutions of amitriptyline hydrochloride in purified water at room temperature are stable for at least 8 weeks if protected from light.

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Freedom15

So it seems then there is no issue with what i have been doing then with regards to making and storing the meds.

 

I have held and not reduced last night so today was a little easier.

 

Still having the side effects of the drug which i am sure will not go till i am totally off.

 

Will see how i am in weeks time as to if reduce again or hold further.

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Freedom15

Ok so its just an update as to where i am and what is my next moves.

 

Currently at 0.04mg and holding.

 

Holds will be now for 3-4 weeks min. Can not do weekly reductions now so going to longer holds as recovery to base level has got longer now.

 

Changing over my liquid meds to 10 (water) : 1 (meds 10mg Tab) ratio from 1:1 ratio.

 

The change is going to help me reduce further and keep within the 10% ratio.

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scallywag

Thanks for updating. When you switch to using a liquid, stay with the same dose.  The liquid absorbs faster and some people have a reaction to that change. You want to avoid making multiple changes at the same time -- reducing dose and switching to a liquid is 2 changes.

 

Let us know how things go for you.

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Freedom15

Maybe it was the way i wrote it already on liquid just changing the ratio to allow better precision on the reduction.

 

I am not reducing till i have done the ratio change over and seen everything is ok.

 

So i was taking 1:1 ratio at 0.04ml so will be doing 10:1 ratio at 0.4ml

 

Thanks for the reply as well scallywag.

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Freedom15

So after holding for 3 weeks its reduction time again.

 

Going to 0.036mg tonight in liquid form.

 

Hopefully not to ruff ride.

 

House is going up for sale in the next couple weeks so thats bit stressful as not sure where i will be living after that.

 

Going out on a date at weekend as well so trying to not allow the meds to get in the way and just try and be me.

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Freedom15

Reduced and will hold for 3 weks min now.

 

First day was hard lots pain all over and very foggy distant.

 

Starting to tale off bit now.

 

Serious paint in my right foot under sole which been happening for while now think thats just do with way its effecting cns.

 

Still numbness as the face.

 

Just a question does anyone know why i seem to be regulary waking about 1-1.30am on and off other than withdrawl??

 

Is there something that happens with your body at that time...

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Freedom15

Thanks ChessieCat for the info.

 

Sleeps been up and down TBH.

 

Withdrawl has been harder this time so will be holding.

 

On a positive note managed to go out on a date to the cinemas and luckly the daily symptoms held it together for that day.

 

Just wish i didnt have to bring the meds thing to the table of a new relationship.

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Freedom15

After reducing almost 2 weeks ago starting to feel like the reduction is tailing off a bit...

 

Still have the daily side effects altho my emotions seem to be carming down and becoming more relaxed.

 

Holding for further week at min before reducing.

 

Have had couple big waves of anxiousness which were difficult to deal with altho i spoke to a mentle health worker friend of mine who supported me with this at hte times.

 

Managing to channel alot into my art and photgtraphy at moment so its been nice having a creative outlet whilst feeling ill and even considering doing

a gallary exhibition around getting ill and finding art within this.

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