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PMS, PMDD, and menstrual cycle issues during withdrawal and after

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btdt

I was looking for something else and found this by chance took a peak... DIM 

 

What’s exciting about the effect of DIM on premenstrual syndrome (PMS)?

A.  PMS symptoms of irritability, aggression, tension, depression, mood swings, water retention, and breast pain or swelling are frequently seen in perimenopausal women.(16)  While a reduction in PMS severity has been seen with nutritional therapy, full resolution has been elusive.  These interventions have included lower-fat diets,(17) and supplementation with minerals, Vitamin D,(18) and herbal extracts.(19)

PMS symptom improvement has been noted after beginning dietary supplementation with absorbable DIM.  These results suggest DIM is able to correct the estrogen imbalance in PMS.  Torbjorn Backstrom, M.D., an eminent researcher in the field (20), and others (21) have documented that estradiol, the primary active form of estrogen, is elevated in PMS.  Backstrom also has shown the degree of estradiol elevation correlates with symptom severity.(22)

Also encouraging is the observation that the enzyme pathways promoted by DIM help metabolize pregnenolone sulfate.(23)  Pregnenolone sulfate is a brain hormone important for memory, but which causes anxiety if levels are too high.  Like estrogen, pregnenolone sulfate is elevated in PMS.(24)  Its healthy metabolism produces beneficial, immune stimulating metabolites and may help relieve anxiety.  Absorbable DIM supplementation promotes healthier metabolism of both estrogen and pregnenolone in PMS.

Q.  What's the best supplementation approach to PMS?

A.  A strong nutritional approach to PMS includes bio-available DIM, chaste berry extract, Vitamin D, calcium, and magnesium.  Synergistic interaction of these ingredients benefits PMS.  An example of this synergy is the ability of beneficial 2-hydroxy estrogens to increase progesterone production (25), potentiating this effect by chasteberry extract.(26)  This new nutritional approach to PMS helps with mineral and hormonal balance.  DIM works in conjunction with chasteberry extract to resolve the dominance of estrogen over progesterone.

Q.  How can helping estrogen metabolism benefit men?

A.  Everyone knows estrogen is an important hormone for reproduction in women.  What is not often appreciated is that estrogen levels, though lower than those in women, are also essential in men.  However, midlife changes in men result in excess estrogen production beyond its minimal essential level.

Like perimenopausal women, men experience a tendency to gain weight in midlife.  Rising estrogen production can result, since fat cells contain the aromatase enzyme that converts testosterone into estrogen.  Unmetabolized estrogen creates a vicious cycle resulting in further estrogen production.  This occurs because fat is one source of more active aromatase enzymes, causing further estrogen production and continuing weight gain.(27)  An open label study of DIM in overweight men and women showed it promoted more efficient weight loss and more active fat metabolism.

In this regard, DIM is similar to green tea extract (28) and spices like cayenne pepper.(29)  DiindolyImethane may have a role in helping to intervene with excess estrogen production associated with obesity and male aging.  Besides weight gain, another aspect of early aging in men is prostate gland enlargement.

It has been clearly established that estrogen accumulates in aging prostate glands at the same time enlargement occurs.(30)  This process is linked to difficulty with urination and frequent urination at night.  The role of estrogen is still being established in this process, but research using estrogen binding substances shows lowering estrogen levels improves the symptoms of nighttime urination.(31)  Use of absorbable DIM by men with these same symptoms has proven beneficial.

 

What I find interesting about this is at pp and old wd site a lot of tests results were coming back I think with high estradiol elevation... I could be wrong so take this with a grain of salt till somebody else who was at pp comes here to back me up... or test results show up here.  

As I recall men who had PSSD were getting tested to see what may help them and the high estradiol was showing up in test results.  I sometimes feel like I have PMS even tho I have passed that stage of life earlier than anyone else in my family but I cant say ADs had anything to do with that not for sure...tho Effexor seems to bring on early menopause from what other younger woman have reported. 

 

DIM promotes the metabolism of itself oddly enough in do this it also promotes the metabolism of the good esttorgen... is I understand ti right and maybe I don't... not trusting my brain so ,much these days while I would love to have a better memory I sure don't want anxiety... but may just chance this some day if I do I will report in. 

peace all

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NJJ

Dim cream is good for people who are not taking medications.  I found it worked extremely well for reducing estrogen dominance symptoms but again It reacted with Zoloft as I developed severe brainzaps/headaches. As soon as I stopped taking the Dim they went away. I assume because Dim speeds up the metabolisim it probably messed with the Zoloft.

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btdt

I guess that shows Zoloft is messing with hormones

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NJJ

Yeah....Dr Lucire said ad drugs mixed with oral contraception, hormone pills etc are in her words "a ghastly mix".

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btdt
The Truth About Psychiatric Drugs | AHRP
ahrp.org/the-truth-about-psychiatric-drugs/
  1.  
  2.  

Aug 11, 2011 - We now know that SSRI antidepressants and the 'atypical' antipsychotics ... Antipsychotics undermine normal metabolic, cardiovascular,hormonal function, ... in 129 forensic patients who had referred to DrLucire by lawyers.

 

may be worth a read

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moonstoneblue

Yeah....Dr Lucire said ad drugs mixed with oral contraception, hormone pills etc are in her words "a ghastly mix".

I'm glad I read that. I was on the pill when I was younger and an antidepressant, it was terrible, I was so mixed up mentally.

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moonstoneblue

Having my usual spotting before my monthly now (or it actually could be my monthly, I'm never sure these days).

I've been swollen all over in the lead up to this monthly, I feel anxious and slightly wired today too, and well now I'm crying. I have a full week of work and I feel so frightened. I have to get through this week though I need the money, but right now all I want to do is hide away.

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Farout

Third heavy period in less than 5 weeks here.  This last one prompted a minor wave for a couple of days before it started.

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Junglechicken

Moonstoneblue - are you also on the pill/mini-pill?

 

Ah, just saw what NJJ posted and you referred to, so this was what I was wondering.  

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btdt

Please be careful with the IUD some of them have hormones that are just as disruptive as the pill... not that I use it I am past that but I have young people in my life who have suffered.

peace

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moonstoneblue

Moonstoneblue - are you also on the pill/mini-pill?

 

Ah, just saw what NJJ posted and you referred to, so this was what I was wondering.

Hi jungle chicken :)

No I'm not on any pill. I haven't taken the pill for over 8years lol. It just didn't suit me and I haven't had a serious relationship in over 8years, so there's been no need for it :)

X

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moonstoneblue

Hi again, I just wanted to ask if it's ok to take agnus castus while on 4mg of Prozac?

My period really bloats me out and I get mood swings lol. I've bought some and forgot that it might interfere with the Prozac. I've tried evening primrose with no success.

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RockSie

Hi guys, what about the day of your ovulation? Do you feel any trouble then? Today I have a horrific day.. Crying spells, overwhelmed and overtaxed with emotions, doubting everything (my relationship, the withdrawal.. Almost everything!!). I take a look in my calendar and today it's day 14 of my menstrual cycle. Maybe that's the reason for all the mess today?! What do you think? Wish you all the best.

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KarenB

I've been recording my monthly symptoms for a few years now, and I did notice a pattern of heightened sensitivity to life on day 14.  It's become something I watch for now, alongside PMS.  Oh joy!!

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Cabinhope

New to this particular thread. I've read through it all.

I am in the beginning of tapering a whole list of drugs, please see my intro, beginning with Trazodone which I expected to be benign and less challenging than the others to come.

And it hasn't been bad, but this past week as I approached the end of a notably shorter cycle I was stressed out, almost frantic, anxious, crying. Way more than I'm used to, profoundly different. Sunday brought the first day of the new cycle and it was as though something had taken me over....ridiculous emotionality, sobbing, very negative assumptions and thinking. And yesterday a migraine, still not myself. I feel better to have read this thread.

I have always struggled with my endocrine system. Hashimoto's and worsening pms as I have entered perimenopause. This was what sent me to my gynecologist 4 years ago seeking help, and she changed my single antidepressant....and the landslide began.

So I'm not sure if evening primrose or chasteberry or anything else could be added in. Bioidentical hormones, progesterone, made me an agitated mess. Birth control, also a wreck.

So...strap in and ride it out? Anything to mitigate this?

I've been through so much, as we all have, and just don't dig the thought that this could be the new norm. As my brain gets used to the changes during a taper could things even out?

Thanks

Hope

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aberdeen

Day 14 is when I go from a normal person to a complete side show freak. I barely know where I am and what I was doing thanks to the DR, I instantly know for certain I made a critical judgement error in chosing my husband of 16 years, I become convinced my children will end up in prison or taken from me due to my complete fail as a mother, everything is stupid and scary, and life is too hard to even get up for. All within 5 minutes. I check the calandar and sure enough...day 14. I can be planting flowers one minute and the next sobbing and irrational and wishing I could go to bed and die. Two weeks later I come to, and try to make friends with everyone I alienated and figure out what I was about to do before the storm struck and carry on best I can until Day 14 is back. Im so over this!

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RockSie

So sorry for you Aberdeen. This whole thing is absolutely unbelievable and crazy. I wish you all all the best. Be patient... Healing does happen!!!

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Vonnegutjunky

Wow - I am so glad I found this thread - a week before my period (or whenever my estrogen is spiking,) I'm in peri - I just feel so horrible-I go into a wave - I feel foggy headed and confused! Any theories as to why hormones create worsening of withdrawal symptoms??

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scallywag

Hormones are signals from one gland to another. Your central nervous system is affected by hormones, including estrogen, progesterone & testosterone, because your glands are part of your central nervous system.  Although we identify distinct body parts, glands, and organs, there are many interconnections. Probably lots of interconnections that nobody knows about yet.

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Vonnegutjunky

Thank you scally that makes sense

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btdt

Our hormones regulate neurotransmitters... this may be helpful 

 

http://www.baysideregenerativemedicine.com/hormonal-health/ 

please keep in mind they say neurotranmitters can be measured an idea Alto has shot down repeatedly as hooy... to get your $

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4335177/

I have read some really good articles about this over the years and I am going to try to find you one... just ask Google....

 

This was interesting 

http://www.madregrande.org/healing/neurotransmitters.html

kind of a cheat sheet on neurotransmitters if it is correct and it may be.. keep in mind they are talking about 4 neurotrasmitters last time I looked 108 had been identified it has been suggested that changing one changes many... the work has not be done yet... they know what a few do but not all.  So grain of salt may need to be applied here. 

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Susanne

Escitalopram / Lexopro interfered with my period. I didn't know this, I thought it was naturally irregular because I'm 32 and I don't have children.. But I've been tapering for almost 5 years and I began to wonder why my cycle was so irregular.
It always starts a 5 or 6 days later than it's supposed to and I think I even skipped one period altogether. With my last period I was seven days over time. I also have some blood loss before actually starting my period for about a week.

Last week I finally got my period. My obsessive thoughts were almost unbearable, they got worse the last day before. Was having mood swings and wanted to cry all day.
In my first and second year of escitalopram I noticed that I was free of obsession for 3,5 weeks of the month. A few days before my period 'it' came back. 
I did link hormones and obsession together.

I hope I can get off the drug (although I still have my obsessions :-( ) and I'm curious when my cycle will become regular again.

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marie123

I am experiencing for the first time menstrual type cramping after my period ended a few days ago. I've never had this before. I am 57 and still menstruating, but I have skipped a couple cycles during the last year.Menopause I hope is right around the corner.  Anyone have menstrual cramps after their period?

 

I believe the Trazodone reinstatement, updosing, etc. is doing a number on my hormones. Anything natural I can take for mentrual cramping? This is awful.

 

Marie

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Vonnegutjunky

Our hormones regulate neurotransmitters... this may be helpful 

 

http://www.baysideregenerativemedicine.com/hormonal-health/ 

please keep in mind they say neurotranmitters can be measured an idea Alto has shot down repeatedly as hooy... to get your $

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4335177/

I have read some really good articles about this over the years and I am going to try to find you one... just ask Google....

 

This was interesting 

http://www.madregrande.org/healing/neurotransmitters.html

kind of a cheat sheet on neurotransmitters if it is correct and it may be.. keep in mind they are talking about 4 neurotrasmitters last time I looked 108 had been identified it has been suggested that changing one changes many... the work has not be done yet... they know what a few do but not all.  So grain of salt may need to be applied here.

 

 

Thanks so much for this!

 

I still have waves but they only seem to come now during my cycle - this makes sense as to why - also I'm in perimenopause so my hormones are running amok - I really don't know what to do at this point - I don't think I want to do hrt, and especially during wd I worry it will make things worse -

 

Anyone else have this issue? And tired something otc that helped?

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btdt

http://www.histaminintoleranz.ch/de/histaminose_dao-abbaustoerung.html#daoblocker

 

you will have to translate the above site to read this further down the page you will find other causes histamine is not working properly... could be caused by damage to the gut or low... DAO 

 

 

Hormonal disorders

A more advisable out of balance hormones can cause or contribute to histamine problems. The biggest role is played here probably the estrogen (female sex hormone), which is not the absolute amount of estrogen, but the ratio of estrogen relative to certain other hormones (progesterone, testosterone) is crucial. Women are affected more often than men thereof.

The disturbances in hormone levels include:

  • Female Cycle (Menstruation)
  • Hormonal birth control (contraceptives, birth control pills)
  • Menopause (climacteric)
  • puberty
  • Estrogen dominance (or progesterone or testosterone deficiency)
  • Hormones and hormone-like substances in natural foods (eg estrogen in hops and beer)
  • Endocrine pollutants: Substances (unintended) of hormone-like effect in everyday products such as plastics, sun creams etc.
  • (Possibly hormones as growth promoters in animal production?)

Evidence of an association between histamine and hormones: 
From HIT are affected significantly more women than men and the disease often occurs with the onset of menopause on [ Jarisch 2004 ]. 
The intensity of histamine problems is the female cycle dependent (menstrual pain as histamine symptom) [ Jarisch 2004 ]. 
the symptoms of histamine-sensitive people may deteriorate (hormonal contraceptives) depending on individual hormone status or improve when taking the pill. 
During pregnancy, the DAO-level rises by approximately 300 times to the uterus and the embryo before histamine to protect. This has the result that during pregnancy allergies and other histamine problems usually temporarily disappear [Maintz et al. 2008 , Jarisch 2004 ]. Increasing the DAO-production at the beginning of pregnancy is regulated by estrogen [ Liang et al. 2010 ].

The complex interactions are understood not enough. A mechanism could be: For the breakdown of estrogen Vitamin B6 is needed. If too much excess estrogen must be dismantled, the diamine is (DAO) is no longer enough vitamin B6 for the breakdown of histamine available. Conversely, appears to influence the hormone balance and the histamine levels. Apart from the DAO are other places in histamine metabolism hormonal influences (eg can be stimulated to mediator release via estrogen receptors on the membrane of mast cells this).

 

I am not the brainiak I wish I were... but for me B6 makes me so depressed I can't lift my head... P5P helps.  B5 it is sometimes called. 

If this is in part a histamine issue... B1 helps me think and you can read about the conflicting reports I have found on B1 lowering or raising histamine.  here

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3503-histamine-food-intolerance/page-7

All I know is when I cannot think B1 helps me I came to it by accident comparing cereals... All Bran sticks has a lot of B1 All Bran round things doesn't... All bran was a staple for me in wd once I found it .. I did not leave home without it... I tried the round bits of All Bran it failed me.. back to sticks.  Over time I stopped eating it.. as I thought it was just helping my digestion and that improved... it was not until I did he comparison for another person here at SA that I noticed the sticks had more B1... so I looked up B1 ... and bought some B1... I later learned B1 lowers histamine... important now as I am having allerigic type reactions to many things including drugs it is getting increasingly worse.

Symptoms and Signs. Early symptoms are nonspecific: fatigue, irritability, poor memory, sleep disturbances, precordial pain, anorexia, and abdominal discomfort. Dry beriberi refers to peripheral neurologic deficits due to thiamin deficiency.

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Cabinhope

Just started a new cycle Monday, exactly 2 weeks after the last one. During the two weeks between them I continued to have night sweat, breast tenderness, anxiety, severe emotionality....and I didn't have any clue to suspect another period so close on the heels of the last. I concluded it to be this Trazodone taper I'm trying to achieve. Because of the symptoms, I even reinstated from 25mg back to 37.5mg thinking it was a too fast taper. I do understand that withdrawal of these meds whacks out hormones.

 

My questions are....if I'm going to be having these angry, irregular periods how on earth with I be able to discern which symptoms are hormonal and which are withdrawal? Is there anything I can do to support my hormones, help them regulate, while I do these tapers? I'll be at this for a loooooooong time as I'm on 7 drugs. AND I'm for sure perimenopausal anyway, 45 yrs old.

 

I feel certain if I can support my hormones, help them be more steady, then stepping away from these drugs will be easier. Again, I understand this is all symbiotic, i.e.whatever change I made to a drug will affect hormones. But there's GOT to be a solution. I know in my heart there has got to be something to help this situation.

 

Like I said, these past two weeks were murder...marked depression, crying, anxiety, distorted thinking, totally out of it cognitively. Not on my game at all and isolating. It's cruel. And while I did not experience any abatement in emotional symptoms at the onset of the period 2 weeks ago, I did, miraculously, two days ago with this new cycle. New person. The bleeding is HEAVY which I know indicates either low estrogen or high. I'm confused.

 

I will be going back to my Chinese medicine doc for acupuncture and she wants to support with Chinese herbs, not sure which or if I'll agree as I'm reluctant to add anything to my system. There is also an Osteopath in town who specializes in hormones, but I have tried bioidentical before and the progesterone, in whatever form it was, made me agressive.

 

As far as adaptogens, herbs, I know ashwaghanda could be good and/or Vitex. Oh, and I do live in a moldy environment. A functional medicine doc did confirm with some blood test that my system is inflamed and she attributed it to mold, before she knew that my house sits in the woods and is very wet. Anyone know anything about mold? Apparently, it can really disrupt the entire endocrine system on its own....drug withdrawal or not. Ugh.

 

Input please!!!!

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Edie

Hi.

 

I have also developed a horrific PMS in WD. I was wondering if it would be okay to take a small dose of chastetree berry extract?  I get so weak during PMS that I can't get out of bed and have horrible pain in my stomach and back. Also I get suicidal thoughts and extreme anxiety. I have to do something about it, but as I understand taking DIM is not a good idea...

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erer

Hi.

 

I have also developed a horrific PMS in WD. I was wondering if it would be okay to take a small dose of chastetree berry extract?  I get so weak during PMS that I can't get out of bed and have horrible pain in my stomach and back. Also I get suicidal thoughts and extreme anxiety. I have to do something about it, but as I understand taking DIM is not a good idea...

I definitely suggest it. I used to have such pains during the first day of menstruation that I had to have the ambulance come and give me a shot. When I started agnus castus years ago it made a real difference. I don't know if a small amount would help though, and I cannot tell if you can tolerate a large amount. I had been taking it for years before wd. The thing about it is also that it takes about 3 months before it kicks in. So you cannot really hope for a quick fix.

 

The pills they sell in Estonia have a ridiculously small amount of the ingredient in it. They used to have larger pills, but then these suddenly disappeared. So I started ordering from iherb.com. That is the one I'm taking: http://www.iherb.com/Nature-s-Way-Vitex-Fruit-400-mg-100-Veggie-Caps/2053

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Junglechicken

Difference between breakthrough blood and spotting anyone?

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AnaTheCat

[rusty English warning] My period has moved on time ever since Xanax CR. I was taking this crap for about a month. My period stopped - it didn't come to happen on time, plus I got acne. I dropped Xanax to 0 after a month (doctor's approval) and by another month period came back, and it's now quite regular, yet it has moved from end of the month to few first days of the month. Anyway, it was a while since last time I got so happy about a period [/rusty English warning].

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erer

Difference between breakthrough blood and spotting anyone?

I never had spotting before and my period was like clockwork every 28 days. Since I started Olanzapine, Valdoxan and Valium I have spotting 2-3 days before my period and periods are not as regular.

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Edie

My period has changed a lot. Less blood and cycle is shorter. Spotting before and after menstruation. Horrible PMS.

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Junglechicken

I have started getting spotting during the week leading up to my period, but hardly anything to shout about.  However, I don't get it afterwards.

 

My periods are different every month as well (light vs heavy flow etc.,), but have been regular for the past 5 months around the 28 day mark, whereas before they were all over the place due to high stress and anxiety.

 

As I am 42, I wonder if this is peri-menopause??

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AnaTheCat

Wow. I've just written that my period seems ok, right? Day after I noticed spotting. Damn.

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AnaTheCat

10 mg of paroxetine dropped, I noticed more blood in my last period. It was also almost painless - I got by without painkillers, for the first time in years. Don't know if it's related to the drop, but made me pretty happy.

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JanCarol

While this does not explain withdrawal, this video (which I saw on FB) has a great description of "normal" mood throughout your cycle:

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