KarenB: slow Effexor taper

[brassmonkey]

Hi Karen-- Your grandmother would be proud of you for taking your cod liver oil so regularly.  From a WD standpoint you actually were doing the right thing also because, as you were thinking, Cod are fish and as such contain the omega 3 that we are looking for.  In addition it contains a good dose of vitamins A and D.  Vitamin D is important for WD.  Where as vitamin A can be a bit tricky because a person can get too much of it if they aren't careful, which is not good.  You may want to switch to plain fish oil because of the vitamin A thing, but you've done no harm otherwise.

[MollyN]

oh my LORDE!!!  I AM IN AWE!!! I only took one dose of cod liver oil.ever. You are a sensation - it tastes sooooo bad!!!!!

 

I was 12 days overdue with baby #4 and I was every type of desperate... but even then,  I was cursing inwardly (clearly wasn't in wd then!)  at my friend who'd suggested it and spent the next 2 hours on the loo.... baby did arrive 3 hours later though

[KarenB]

Thanks Tom - I will switch to fish oil, just to be on the safe side.  Don't know how much vitamin A I get in my diet, so I think it's just easier not to have to worry about it.  And if I'm lucky I might have less intense w/d symptoms if I'm not having the vitamin A.  I hope I'm understanding that right.

 

And Molly - you'll never believe that I got used to to taste, and now can have it all by itself!!   

 

Maybe I should take someone to the shop to supervise me . 

[KarenB]

Does anybody have any experience of a supplement called 'Celgevity'?  Someone gave my husband a couple of jars of it, and as he is just starting his own w/d path I'm not sure if it's a good idea.  It's got lots of different things in it, but he isn't especially sensitive so thinks it will be okay.

 

If you have tried it or know something of it I'd love to hear from you. 

[brassmonkey]

There is like zero information on "Cellgevity" other than sales hype on the web.  Which tells me that it is not worth what you payed for it.  As far as I can see it is made with "natural" antioxidants, anti inflammatories and some stimulants.  It may help a little with aches and pains from over exercise.  If his CNS is at all sensitized from WD then it could prove to be too stimulating and ramp up anxiety like symptoms.  If he wants to try it I would suggest starting at a very low dose and seeing what happens before using even the recommended dose.

[KarenB]

Thanks Tom, that's pretty much what I thought.  Luckily we didn't pay for it.  Aaron gets the occasional strange gift because of his community radio work.  Depends on who he's interviewing...

 

Actually Aaron is providing me with an interesting case study for w/d.  He's been on Effexor for years, and other SSRIs previously.  He's had no adverse reactions except lately had very itchy skin.  Because of what I've learned here, he started tapering at a careful 10% rate 3 weeks ago.  His only w/d symptom so far has been slightly increased tiredness.  He will wait at least another few weeks before his next drop. 

 

It's very close to being a 'what if someone did it perfectly from the start' scenario. 

[MollyN]

Very very best of luck to Aaron and definitely will be fascinating to watch how he responds.

[manymoretodays]

Thanks Tom, that's pretty much what I thought.  Luckily we didn't pay for it.  Aaron gets the occasional strange gift because of his community radio work.  Depends on who he's interviewing...

 

Actually Aaron is providing me with an interesting case study for w/d.  He's been on Effexor for years, and other SSRIs previously.  He's had no adverse reactions except lately had very itchy skin.  Because of what I've learned here, he started tapering at a careful 10% rate 3 weeks ago.  His only w/d symptom so far has been slightly increased tiredness.  He will wait at least another few weeks before his next drop. 

 

It's very close to being a 'what if someone did it perfectly from the start' scenario. 

 

Yes, this will be exciting to follow.  Any chance he would start his own thread?  Just thinking that would be nice to hear his own experiences first hand and follow.  I do somewhat recall the coming off Effexor......thinking that I followed poorly informed physician advice at the time........and went from 75 mg. to off.  I believe that after some time of suffering that that was when I started the Lexapro/Seroquel combination.  Well before I had started to trust my own inner voice in the matter of my health, or before I had done much reading in the area of a non mainstream and more balanced approach to using psych medications.  As well as treatment......best treatment, for guiding folks back to mental health.

 

And Kudos KarenB.......for finding your way here.  Let's just all get healed today!  Lol.  I am really Jonesing, so to speak.........back and forth.....back and forth on the computer.  Such a nice distraction some days.  And so much cool stuff and people here.

 

Hoping it is smooth as possible for him.

[KarenB]

Update:  I did four tiny reductions each a week apart, and sailed through that month just fine.  Felt great, minimal symptoms.  Then I've been holding for the last month, which is when the symptoms showed up a bit more, though I have still been quite functional and happy.  Relentless nightmares though .  And the last few days I've had more sleep trouble. 

 

I am thinking of continuing to hold till after Christmas.  Feeling very positive about my ability to be happy and functional, but have a nagging worry about still having a high amount of Effexor in me (133mg).  And a second nagging worry about how I'd ever get off low doses at the end of my taper sometime next century, if I'm having such trouble with the high doses.   

 

Thoughts anyone? 

Thanks, and love,

KarenB

 

(And I must add I'm on a bit of a high after Alto asked me to be a mod )

[ChessieCat]

Forget about the 2nd nagging worry.  You'll be a 5 star pro by then and it will be a breeze.

CC

[Fresh]

Hi Karen ,  congrats on your upgrade . . . you're certainly like a different person to the angry , frightened

woman I "met" a few months ago.   Watching your progress has been lovely.

 

Having said that , it's interesting that you recognize you're a bit high at the moment. You have a number

of signs of the little documented withdrawal symptom "Forum OCD".

I've seen many people on this site pass through it , like all the other w/d symptoms it settles.  I had it myself

for a while , and it was fun.

 

After being lost in a wilderness , finding this site is exciting. All of a sudden , there's a way out , and people

who understand.  And you realize you can offer help to others , which makes us feel good.

 

Signs of Forum OCD include:

- having difficulty falling asleep thinking about people on this site

- when you wake during the night , you check your computer to see who's posted

- feeling a compulsion to post on almost every single thread that comes up

- spending long periods of time on the site 

- finding that you haven't done things you wanted to because you were on the site

 

The insidious nature of this symptom can catch you unawares.  Be on the lookout

for it , cause it's sneaky.  

 

If you've had "more sleep trouble" the last few days , I'd wait until things go back

to your baseline before decreasing again.  

 

Of course you're excited!   Enjoy it.

 

[bubble]

Dear Karen

 

It's great to have you around and to have you as a mod. I felt the same and Fresh describes our feelings about the forum very well.

 

I'm also very happy to hear about your husband. Mine also started his after tapering I joined the forum and is going by the book with almost no symptoms. It's great others can benefit from our experience.

 

I understand how you feel about the slowness of your taper. But I believe that the speed you are going at now doesn't mean you will have to go this slow throught the whole taper. This hold will stabilise you so nicely that your cns will be in a much better shape overall to deal with cuts. Holds do wonders.

 

When we are destabilised regardless of how small cuts we make they cause a lot of symptoms. I also get very impatient to cut so that I have a feeling that I'm progressing towards a drug free life. So I constantly have to remind myself that slowing down to hold will get me there faster.

 

Hugs

[nz11]

Congratulations KarenB, you sure are phenomenal at encouraging others.

 

Its 4.30 am and i think ive just met some of Freshs forum ocd criterias   eek

 

Hey Karen this means you can write those letters to Carm and HDC and 'rock the boat' with authority.

[KarenB]

Thanks Chessie, everything that's 'far away' seems hard.  I guess when I'm there I'll just do what needs doing.

 

Fresh - Surely some company has invented a drug for ForumOCD?   Kidding... Don't want to put ideas in their heads.  I have been keeping an eye on it.  I only come to the computer once my jobs are done - promise .  I'll do the dishes really soon...  And I've never let myself come here during the night.  I've thought about it.    

 

And I always wait for base-line before dropping - reductions scare the hooplas out of me.

 

NZ - really!  Where is your self-control?  Foruming during the night.  I think someone's inventing a drug for that ... oh, wait...

 

Bubble - I'll tell my hubby about yours - that's encouraging.  Also encouraging that you think I won't always have to go this slow.  I guess nothing is a given in w/d.  Hold hold hold - might make some new signs for the walls round here.

[MollyN]

WOOHOO!! I was wondering when you'd become a moderator, you have such a generous spirit!!

 

I'm glad too you've managed to drop down some and still parent/function - no small achievement xxxx

 

I'm loving summer!! We spent Saturday at Whatipu and Sunday at Pakiri where we begged for a campsite (left things very late) and were lucky enough to get one... so it'll be us and 1000 (!!) other folks squished into our little plots of ground in the baking sun for a week lololol seems a crazy ritual, but it is great fun - life just has to slow down when you have to queue just to brush your teeth

 

We've found a cheapo second hand longboard and MrMolly is going to try and learn to surf - awesome!!

 

Unfortunately I'm with you and the nightmares - I've just been woken  by a recurring tsunami dream -  we wait for the wave to hit knowing certain death is seconds away. too sad.

[nick1990]

KarenB congrats on becoming a Moderator Your a legend and have helped me out heaps over the last few months. Eternally grateful. 

 

Its cool seeing other people in our day to day lives come off Psych drugs with little trouble - So encouraging . 

I was talking with a girl-friend last night after a party and she admitted to being on AD's as a teen for a while for "Headaches" (WTF??!?!) Gained 15 pounds on them but came off them with no trouble. And she is now one of the most happy, genuine, energetic and bubbly people i have met.  

This stuff can knock 99% of the hope out of you but when you step back from it all there is sooooo much hope. 

 

Summers getting here Karen - And to think that Feb/March is true Kiwi summer, we have a good few months to look forward to  

 

Massive Hugs !

[KarenB]

Thanks Nick,

 

Glad to hear you sounding so happy.  You are right - there is a lot of hope.  And summer months - today is beautiful!  Just picked my girls up from where they were selling sweets/bread etc at their market stall.  So nice bumping into all the locals.  

 

Yay for massive hugs - there should be a button for that .   

[KarenB]

 Thanks Petunia, this is a keeper

 

Desperata (Acute Withdrawal Version)

 

Go reluctantly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace their used to be in silence, before you got tinnitus.

As far as possible without losing your job, home, relationships and everything which is dear to you, limit contact with all persons.

Speak the truth about withdrawal quietly and clearly, even though others will treat you like an idiot, saying you are telling a story.

Avoid loud and aggressive drug pushing doctors of all kinds, they are a danger to your health.

If you compare yourself with others, you will feel depressed and hopeless because right now everyone seems greater than yourself.

Hang onto any positive memory you can find in the dark murky depths of your mind.

If you still have a career, you are lucky, or you just don’t have withdrawal all that bad.

The business world is full of trickery and crooks, you got scammed by the biggest of the bunch…Big Pharma

But try and look on the bright side, there are a handful of heroes in the world who write books and speak up for us in court and sometimes even answer our emails.

Be yourself, even if you don’t know who you are any more, DP/DR sucks and even the grass looks weird, the whole world has become enchanted by a strange curse.

Take kindly any helpful advice you are offered by well meaning friends and family as the days, months and years roll by, gracefully surrendering your desire for them to really understand what you are going through.

Watch helplessly as your spiritual strength dissolves into a puddle at your feet.

Distress and imaginings will take on a life of their own, as will fear, fatigue and loneliness. A wholesome diet may help, gentle walking and let someone else discipline the kids, you’re just too fragile at the moment. 

You are a survivor of psychiatry, less important than the power and wealth accumulated at your expense, you have no rights.

And valid or not, clearly, your diagnosis now defines a universal truth.

However, God will still love you, as will your cat or dog, whatever the outcome.

Therefore find peace in your pets if noise is too much for your sensitive soul, keep confusion to a minimum, your brain needs to rest.

With all its pain, anxiety and sleepless nights, its still a recovery process. Be happy you are still alive, unless of course you have anhedonia, which would make this impossible.

 

© Petunia 2015

 

Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.

As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love, for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as the grass.

Take kindly to the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world.

Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

Max Ehrmann c.1920

[JanCarol]

Hey Karen - good to hear about the cod liver oil / fish oil.

 

If you were doing well on the cod liver, you might consider getting your Vit D levels tested so that you can supplement with D.

 

If you live below the 34 latitude (it looks like you are right on the line!), it is much more difficult to get the D you need from the sun.  Most of us are low in D, and large amounts of us are deficient.  For sleep and mood, it's recommended to get between 60-80 ng/ml which comes to 191-254 nmol/l (I don't know what scale your docs use, Aussies use the latter)  That's from a blood test, and you choose your dosage of Vit D based on where you are.  The "official" number is somewhere around 30, so you can see why that is problematic.  

 

The reason I mention the cod liver, is you've been taking it for so long - and maybe it was the A that was activating - but it could have been the D, as well.  While people on AD's are frequently deficient in D, because of the deficiency, it may "rattle your cage" more than you'd like.  So please, if you do go on D, ramp it up gently and check symptoms as you go.

 

You mention Cellgevity.  Like Brass said, it's a patented combination thingo that's likely way too expensive.

 

If you get good results from the free sample, consider getting l-glutathione from iHerb much more cheaply.  If you find it helps.

 

My compounding chemist uses it as "filler" in my thyroid medication.  He's so proactive, doesn't want to use "useless filler" if he can put vitamin C and glutathione in instead.

 

I can't tell a difference, but it's a cellular thing - I don't think it's a thing you would "feel" much - like fish oil - but can be beneficial.

 

My bro-in-law is sold on this thing - similar deal - all the "research" is done by the marketing company - called EHT, supposed to do similar stuff to the Cellgevity - brain enhancement, longevity, blah blah.  EXPENSIVE stuff, probably pyramid plan like Cellgevity (and Amway), costs $3 a pill!  I've been trying to convince him that it's just a multivitamin with Green Coffee Extract, and he can get the Green Coffee Extract for 8 cents a pill....but - "his mate" put him onto it, and he's more likely to listen to his mate than his sis-in-law.  Never mind that I deal with this kind of thing daily for people all around me, and have 30 years of study under my belt - "I am not a doctor or health professional" and it is his money.    

 

So when confronted with these "patented compounds" remember a few things:  

• What BrassMonkey mentioned - is there any research other than the company which is selling the thing?
• KISS - too many ingredients - often duplicate what you are already taking - or may even be contraindicated.
• KISS - too many ingredients - if you react to it you will never know what you are reacting to.
• Find the active ingredient - the one which is different - not a "multivitamin" - and price it out separately to check the value.  If you want to try it - try just the active ingredient (this product, it's l-glutathione, in my bro-in-laws, it was Green Coffee Extract)
• KISS again - when there are aminos involved, often these products give a shot-gun/scattergun approach and just try and hit ALL the targets in the hope that one will hit the mark.

Lastly - when you find yourself wanting to speed up the taper - I think it was Petunia who called this urgency a withdrawal symptom.  When she found she was wanting to impulsively or urgently push her taper, she wrote it down as a SYMPTOM of WITHDRAWAL and checked her symptoms chart, logged it, and checked it against her tapering info and symptoms.  Usually, her charts laughed at her and said, "Taper?  NOW?  You've got to be kidding!"

 

Besides, depending on your situation, I find that a taper during silly season is, well, silly.  Here in Oz, we have no doctor support over the holidays, anyway, which leaves only the emergency room if a problem comes up.  New Year is not so far off.  

 

As I love to say, holding is healing.  You make your taper, and then you heal as you hold.

 

I hope you see the sun today!

[KarenB]

Hello Jan and thanks for checking in on me ,

 

It could be interesting to get some blood work done.  What you say about vitD might be worth a look into, esp since I tend to hide from the sun.  I do like the idea of putting 'urgency to taper' as a w/d symptom. 

 

I'm going to pass on your post to my hubby to read about the supplements.  He does feel it's giving him energy, but he also got energy from a vitamin mix from our local herbal shop. 

 

I didn't know what you meant by 'kiss'? 

 

We sure did see the sun today.  Apparently Australia is sending warm air over to us.  Or perhaps that was hot air .

 

Hugs,
KarenB

[KarenB]

I've been asked by a few people here how I am managing depression (which I had before meds, then worse than ever during meds, and in waves during w/d).  I've copied my recent reply to someone here:

 

 

It's no bother at all - I'm glad you asked.  I spent a long time feeling desperate about depression, and so I understand those feelings.

 

The long story is in my blog (link in my signature). 

 

The short story is that I've built up a combo of things that together have helped me manage depression.  I think of it as weaving a nest, weaving a held life. 

 

My 'feathers and twigs' include restorative yoga - which also helps you learn to listen to your body; eating whole foods; learning to meditate; finding time to be playful; regular counseling; writing; crying; developing deeper connections with a few close friends and asking for help; resting more; saying 'no' more; singing; dancing...

 

If you start to look, you will be able to build things into your life that uniquely support you.  It will be different to my list.  Eventually you'll be able to spot depressive waves as they approach, and you can be prepared for them.  That way they don't bowl you off your feet so much.   

 

There's no 'single' answer to depression; it requires changing one's life to a nurturing and supportive life.  It requires us to no longer try to push on through.  It requires us to listen to our body and soul, to create quiet places where our thoughts can come out to us, and where we can then acknowledge and respond to them.  

 

The more I've done this, the more the joy in my life has increased.  This is an immense change from where I once was.

 

[KarenB]

Posting another reply to someone about managing depression during w/d:

 

 

Antidepressants did help me at first, but then caused my depression to become worse than ever.  I have since read in Anatomy of an Epidemic (which I really recommend) that a window of benefit at the beginning of a/d use is common, but once it's gone it's gone.  That's why swapping meds etc doesn't help.  

 

I do use these same skills to help me with depression during waves and reductions.  It can be a bit trickier because you are having the complication of neuro-emotions which make everything seem bleaker and harder.  But the basic idea is still the same - build your life into a nurturing one. 

 

I notice now - 7 months into w/d - that I get much less depression.  I put this down to a lower dosage, plus building strengthening things into my life, plus reducing by smaller amounts each time, plus a stabilising CNS.  Even during a wave, depression is only minimal.  In the first months, it was my worst symptom. 

 

Once you are through w/d that heavy depression should lift - because it is only a symptom, it is not 'you'.  When you are in the waves you just have to ride it out however you can.   

 

[nick1990]

Hey KarenB - I like what you say here- "Once you are through w/d that heavy depression should lift - because it is only a symptom, it is not 'you'. "

 

Thats definitely whats going on with me at the moment. Thanks for that!  

 

How are you doing? Lovely rainy weather for Christmas. haha good ol'e NZ

[KarenB]

I'm doing okay.  Have had to battle Christmas jitters, but am winning.  Told my family to 'help out where they could, rest where they wanted to, and make their main aim to enjoy their Christmas preparation.  We've all had a lovely relaxed day of cooking and cleaning and decorating.  We are all ready for a day of eating...

 

The rain made me glad, cause I didn't have to water all my baby veges. 

 

Enjoy your Christmas too,

Hugs,

Karen

[KarenB]

Post Christmas update:  Was planning to drop today but as I woke at 3:30 and have felt not quite 'right' will put it off til tomorrow.  Mostly I'm feeling really good, it's just minimal niggles but will play it day by day for a bit.

 

On the plus side I did heaps of s/a stuff, went in my garden, and baked muffins all before the family got up .  Feel like one of those olden-days mothers who baked and stuff... .   

[nick1990]

Good to hear your doing well Karen beautiful weather !!! Enjoy your new years. Big hugs!!

[Meimeiquest]

Karen, I appreciated reading in your blog a bit today. I am glad to read of another mom slogging it out, grieving and hoping as she struggles with parenting through all this. My mother was sexually abused by her dad (basically, he had sex with her up until she was about 14...should I even know this?). And my dad's mom was horribly mentally ill with post-partum something for at least 10 years after he was born. They were very devoted parents to me, I really appreciate them. But the question of "what does it mean to grow up with people who experienced so much trauma" is beginning to light up inside me.

[KarenB]

Boy, there's some stuff kids just don't need to know about their parents, but on the other hand it does make it easier to understand why they are so screwed up. 

 

I think being aware of the fact that trauma ripples down through the generations is a vital first step to healing.  I've always been clear (in age-appropriate ways) with my girls that I experienced trauma when I was a child but have worked hard at not using it as an excuse.  So if I lose the plot and get angry at them, I'll apologise and reiterate that it is not their fault - I am responsible for my actions.  I make clear that the trauma means I sometimes struggle to respond in a good way, but that I will still try. 

 

Basically I try to not dump blame on them for when I respond badly to things they do. 

 

Well, it's an on-going practice.

[KarenB]

Dropped 0.4% two days ago, after a 6 week hold.  Today feeling a little queasy and puffed.  Awake most of last night due to combo of w/d and new-years-eve fire-works.  

 

My day will consist of sleeping, eating and watching a movie.  It's all manageable, but I do hate this 'blah' feeling.  Seems to encourage my sad feelings to show up more.

 

All told though, it ain't too bad...

[nick1990]

Hey fellow Kiwi. Nice to have the sun out again today.. How are you doing since your last drop? Busy weekend coming up in Raglan - Festival season

[KarenB]

It's been harder than I expected from such a small drop - harder than the ones I did last time.  I'm putting it down to the extra stress from Christmas etc.  It's a bit better yesterday and today, but I will need to wait longer than the week for my next micro-drop.  Definitely doesn't pay to look too far ahead...

 

Yes, big weekend in Rags, but I will be at home where I like it, away from all the people . 

 

Was thinking of you cause I got this awesome recipe book for Christmas.  It's by a kiwi, and it's called My Darling Lemon Thyme.  Vegetarian, gluten free, dairy free etc.  I'm not actually any of those, but the recipes are delicious and they work - I've tried 5 so far.  I'm really impressed, so am recommending it to Kiwis who like yum food and are interested in their health.

 

Are you going to any festivals?   

[nick1990]

Glad your doing better today Christmas is THE most full on time of the year without a doubt. Im glad its over for another year .. (Grinch ) 

 

Nice ! I will definitely have a look for it! There is no doubt that those sorts of foods fuel and nourish your body beyond belief so go hard on the recipes !

 

Na - well not the one in Raglan. All festivaled out for a few weeks... Though it is tempting, i must say!  

 

Do you get out to the points much in Raglan? Its so therapeutic heading down to Whale Bay on a sunny afternoon and rolling out a blanket on one of the giant boulders. Just sitting there listening to the waves break and watching the surfers glide past .. Just a thought - if you were after something different to do .

 

Hope you continue to feel better

 

Nick

[Fresh]

Hi Karen , I was thinking of you Kiwis as I floated in a magnesium bath today , and wondered

if you ever go to the natural hot springs that are around?

I stayed in Whangarei for a few months and the therapeutic hot springs/smud-baths were one of

the best things I found.

Some were in natural outdoor settings with lots of mud , others more like modern spas. Turned up

to one on a Tuesday night , "Nudie Night" , lol. If there are any near Raglan , treat yourself.

 

[KarenB]

No spas and no nudie nights , but had the first swim of summer yesterday, and then swam again today. 

 

Made another reduction yesterday (0.4%) after waiting nearly 3 weeks to stabilise after the last one.  The idea was to do four weekly reductions, but I seem to be ridiculously sensitive.  Today I had an hour of feeling queasy and hot ears and sadness, which of course made me think I was utterly doomed , but then it all went away.  It's intriguing really.

 

Trying to hold on to the thought that my system may yet stabilise further, and then I'll be able to go a bit faster.  I wish I believed that more.

 

My baby turned 11 yesterday and someone gave her one of those mandala colouring books I've seen mentioned on s/a.  Have spent this evening colouring with her, and it is very soothing.  I might need my own...

[bubble]

When I read through your posts I have this idea of how things would be if you held super long like 2 or 3 months or longer).... I'm just thinking about this because your primary problem seems to be the one of destabilisation (due to alternating doses in the past). This is just a hunch of course.

 

I often think back to what Rhi said about being able to cut more after we stabilise well through a long hold. So ultimately it doesn't make the things even slower than they are now. But I know how hard it is to hold and I'm actually bracing myself up for as long a hold ass I can take...

[KarenB]

Oh boy Bubble, seeing the words 'long hold' makes me squirm.  You are right, of course, a 2-3 month hold probably would do wonders for me.  Now to get myself to do the right thing .  Such resistance. 

 

For other people holds are a great idea, and 2-3 months isn't that long.  The problem is that I am different, and 2-3 months is an eternity . 

 

Time to get totally objective and commit to holding.  I'll be back later in the day with a definite plan - don't want to rush into anything....