Sarasmiles' Lexapro Withdrawal

[clearday]

I spoke with a friend of mine yesterday who had been on Lexapro for 4 years. She discontinued years ago and suffered no serious withdrawal. She also said about herself, "I'm like an elephant, you could pump me full of drugs and they just don't affect me". There are many patients like that, who don't suffer as we do once we come off the meds.  It's natural genetic variation; some nervous systems are just very sensitive to such drugs.

 

So when doctors hear our stories of protracted WD, they are understandably skeptical. Unfortunately, protracted SSRI WD is all too real for a huge minority of patients. And the huge body of evidence that is piling up is undeniable. All one has to do is an Internet search under "protracted SSRI withdrawal" and see the cascade of evidence available. It should be only a matter of time, perhaps a decade or so, that protracted WD becomes part of accepted knowledge of the psychiatric profession. I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen.

 

All I know is that I was left in the dark for eleven years about this stuff, and once I found these websites, all my confusion was cleared up. It was brutal, long term withdrawal from the drugs causing my misery. I had all these medical tests done, all showed I was very healthy and should not be feeling sick. The only wild card was these powerful drugs. And so many folks on here suffering EXACTLY the same progression of symptoms as me. There's just no denying it.

 

I have been off these drugs for one year now. I have made such significant improvement in my health compared with how I felt while on the drug. The only lingering effects are these classic purely physical withdrawal symptoms that change slowly from day to day, a clear progression of hard earned adjustment, healing and recovery. There is no way I would go back on these drugs after what they have done to me.

 

I hope your doctor demonstrates an open mind regarding what you know. There actually are psychiatrists out there who "get it", who keep themselves current and up on the latest info. They are rare though.

[Sarasmiles]

I love to hear of the improvements you've felt, Clearday! Physical symptoms can, of course, be hard to take, but what I fear most is falling apart emotionally. I am hopeful when I read that you and others get through the emotional strains and stress.

 

My doctor was great today.  He listened to everything I had to say, and didn't try to dissuade me. He validated that I know myself and my brain and body best, and said that if I want to keep moving forward with coming off of meds, he wants to help.  He did remind me (though I really didn't need a reminder) of how much I suffered, emotionally, when I did this before. He reminded me that I came back to him, saying, "I don't want to do this anymore. I just want to feel better" and it was I who said I wanted to get back on Lexapro.  He said he has never seen any convincing data to suggest that SSRIs cause permanent brain damage, but he did validate that they can be very hard to withdraw from. 

 

In any case, the first thing he wants me to do in this process is continue to taper off the Lexapro.  I have taken 5 mg. for four days now. When I asked him at what rate to continue tapering, he said it is up to me to go as slowly or as fast as I want. What he recommended is that I stay on 5 mg. until I have no withdrawal symptoms, and then cut back to 2.5 or 3.75 or whatever I am comfortable with, and stay on that dose until I have no symptoms, and so on until I'm done.  He wants me to stay on Prozac while I do that. I told him that I am only taking 10 mg. of that, not having increased to 20 as he'd suggested. He was fine with that, and said since I'm feeling good and doing all the other self-care things we've discussed, I could stay on 10 mg. until I'm ready to start decreasing that...Or go up if I want. It's funny that I'm wording all of this as though I needed his permission to do anything...I know this is all up to me, but it gave me a psychological boost to have him articulate that. 

 

So far, the decrease in Lexapro has been pretty innocuous.  I have this slight dizziness late in the day, and will not decrease from 5 mg. until that is gone.  I really hope I am not marching toward misery...

[clearday]

Glad to hear your appointment went well -

 

I understand that you are in a Catch-22 situation, where being on the meds is unacceptable, and being off them could be difficult for awhile. You're between a rock and a hard place - 

 

Before I went on Lexapro six years ago, I too had gone back to my doctor and asked for the Lexapro. It cleared up my dysthymia right away, and it stayed away for five years, and hasn't come back since.

 

Everyone's withdrawal is unique. Some have certain symptoms, others different. Some have a really tough time, others not so tough. Yours will be yours - hopefully it won't be so tough -

 

I was lucky, I never had any anxiety, libido problems or any weight gain while taking these meds or during withdrawal. But the symptoms I did have were so difficult and long term that they almost ruined my life -

 

My Prozac withdrawal years ago was so much different than my Lexapro withdrawal these days. It's hard to understand how these meds do what they do. And why our bodies react the way they do coming off the meds.

 

I quit Lexapro a year ago. Immediately followed by two months of fatigue and brain zaps. I also got teary-eyed often at the slightest things for about six months. But I liked that; it was good to really feel the bittersweet kind of sadness at those moments. Very fleeting, nothing like depression. That went away. It was then followed by strictly physical symptoms for the second six months up till now (insomnia, then head pressure/tinnitus and slight limb numbness at night). I have had no depression the entire past year during withdrawal while being off all meds.

 

But years ago, during Prozac withdrawal I had difficult long-term fatigue, sweating, sensitivity to light, restless legs at night, and depression (all cleared up after a few years). 

 

As you taper down, there are so many on here who can help you decide how to conduct your taper depending on how you feel as you go (since I only know about cold turkey, I can't help you with tapering!     )

 

Keep coming back and tell us how it's going - good luck!

[Sarasmiles]

Clearday - What symptoms/side effects did you have that "almost ruined" your life?  I mean, when you were on Lexapro?  

 

Today I took 5mg. of Lexapro again, and 20 mg. Prozac. Well, to be more precise, I am cutting a 20mg. Lexapro tablet into quarters, and so the amounts aren't exact. I took the smallest of four pieces today. I wanted to see how I would do, and then determine whether or not to shave a bit off another quarter tomorrow.   I will search the site for info on how to be more exact in cutting up tablets, or how to make a liquid.  My doctor says not to worry about it, but I am learning here that doctors often underestimate how much we need to "worry" about withdrawal.

 

In any case, I felt fine all day. Cheerful, actually. Energetic. Until about 5pm, when I started to fade. This late afternoon fatigue and dizziness has been happening every day, but today I had to work until 8pm.  It was hard to work after 5, and I am going to try and change my hours as I deal with this withdrawal. It seems I am at my best in the morning. I suppose levels are highest then, after I take my morning dose. 

[clearday]

Clearday - What symptoms/side effects did you have that "almost ruined" your life?  I mean, when you were on Lexapro?  

 

I should have specified that "symptoms of protracted Prozac withdrawal almost ruined my life". The symptoms were unrelenting brain fog, depression, and debilitating mental fatigue, which lasted for about three years. Those symptoms all hit me with delayed onset four months after cold turkey. Compounded by the fact that I spent months not knowing what was causing these symptoms - I wasted so much time on medical tests and personal research (was it Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Epstein-Barr syndrome, thyroid malfunction, adrenal malfunction, poor diet, stress damage, heavy metal toxicity, etc.?). All that confusion and illness led to despair, loss of a job, loss of future prospects, and an alcoholic relapse after a year and half of those symptoms. All while raising a toddler. I was a highly educated professional for decades, and beginning grad school. I was about to reach my peak of productivity and it all came crashing down. 

 

Those were the symptoms that almost ruined my life. They were accompanied by sensitivity to light (long-term) and hot flashes (short term).

 

I have read a few other stories on here and other forums of people suffering from the same exact menu of symptoms after Prozac withdrawal, and due to withdrawal from other SSRIs. And sadly too many here that also suffer for 3 - 4 years. 

 

And all my psychiatrist could tell me, after complaining to him for a year and a half that something had gone terribly wrong, was to look me in the eye and say "Knock it off!". This was a man who I knew for years, confided in, we were equals. His sessions were ridiculous; he would take my $125 in cash, and I would tell him stories of things I was learning in grad school, he was interested in what I was studying. He probably felt letting me talk was "therapeutic", he was a Freudian who also happened to throw SSRIs at his patients at the drop of a hat. And he had a poor understanding of these drugs, it is quite clear! I quickly realized I was just going to him to get the scripts, and the rest of the hour was a waste of my time.  When I came home from my monthly session, my wife  would joke "So, what'd you teach Dr. T today?" and we'd laugh. But, the joke was on me.

 

The length of my Prozac withdrawal is probably on the high end (3-4 years) and even after that I always felt that I had lost my edge. But at least I was able to enjoy life again, compared with those first three years.

 

My Lexapro withdrawal is a work in progress, and I don't know how long it will last or what to expect in the future from it. While it is very difficult, overall it is not as debilitating as my Prozac withdrawal. At least now I know what is causing all this. If I didn't know, then honestly, I would be in total despair having been through this before, and having doctors give me blank stares and say "We don't know what's wrong with you" all over again. I can't emphasize enough how valuable these forums are. These forums saved me. I was about to go back on Lexapro six months ago to address my insomnia when I found the forums and for the first time realized the Lexapro WD was CAUSING the insomnia, not something wrong with my natural neurochemistry. I am now on the road to recovery rather than still being juiced up on Lexapro. I then looked back in my diary and was stunned to see that my mysterious "illness" that I was struck down with in 2003 hit me four months after stopping Prozac. And then on the forums, reading all these stories of people "crashing" at three, four, five months after stopping their drugs. I had my smoking gun. It was the Prozac all along. I was thrilled to finally know.

 

That is what happened to me. Your withdrawal will likely be not so long or severe since you are tapering and because my ordeal was on the high end as far as length of time. Apparently I am extra sensitive to these SSRI drugs. I can only say what I went through and tell people. It sickens me to tell this story. But it also helps to recount it to make me never forget or deny what happened to me ( and is still happening to me). I still can't believe it. I wish I could go back to 1996 and at the point I remember him telling me "Well, we're going to put you on Prozac", I could say "Hell no!". Oh well, life is what happens to us while we're busy making other plans. I count my blessings. I am grateful that I didn't accidentally kill myself or others during that horrific alcoholic relapse. I am grateful that I have had many great days these past few years, and will have many more in the future - all SSRI-free.

[Martina23]

clear day, I also paid to my psychiatrist on Tuesday EUR 160,-- for her information, that I am terribly wrong and there is no withdrawal from the antidepressant prescribed to me

[clearday]

clear day, I also paid to my psychiatrist on Tuesday EUR 160,-- for her information, that I am terribly wrong and there is no withdrawal from the antidepressant prescribed to me

 

Sorry to hear that Martina- we hear it over and over on here, right?

 

I was raised to respect doctors, and I still do respect them. They are lifesavers when it comes to surgeries and other treatments.

 

But they are only human and make many mistakes like everyone else. Clearly, the evidence is overwhelming that these drugs are very powerful and cause long term problems for up to half of all people who take these SSRIs and other psych meds. People have a varying degree of tolerance and reactions to different types of drugs - some can drink a lot of alcohol very often and be basically functional, others have two drinks and can barely handle it. The same applies even more to such powerful drugs as SSRIs and other ADs. If our nervous systems are naturally sensitive to the changes caused in our brains by these drugs, especially if we take them every day for years, we pay a huge price.

 

Since many people - maybe a majority - who take these drugs do not have such a hard time as us, the doctors believe that we aren't affected by the meds, that it must be our own "illness" returning. It's simply not true. They really don't want to hear our bad news, they want to just hear us say "Thanks for the medication, doc, I feel great!". 

 

I watched a close friend of mine suffer two major depression over the past twenty years. He never took any medications. He completely recovered from both depressions with a year. He is doing great these days, he is in his 60s. HIS doctor said that he could try some SSRIs to help the depression, but the doctor warned him "It might be very difficult to come off these drugs". My friend decided NOT to take them thanks to that warning.  My other college friend had some anxiety and depression and his old-fashioned doctor told him to deal with it naturally, even though my friend wanted to take something for it. THAT doctor told my friend that these drugs should only be used in very severe cases. So guess what? There are doctors out there who KNOW that SSRIs can be very dangerous. 

[clearday]

P.S. - Sarasmiles - adding to my last post - btw, all during my WD years, you couldn't tell by looking at me that I was sick. I put up a good front at work and in social circles. Average people usually suspect that dysautonomic illnesses such as protracted SSRI WD, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, gulf war syndrome, etc are in "people's heads", so it is hard to convince them what you're going through. So I mostly had to hide it and make excuses if I couldn't go to this or that event. Only my close family knew the severity of this protracted SSRI WD.

 

 

Glad to hear you had a good day! Cheerful and energetic - sounds real good. You will have plenty of that in your future. I still love my life dearly and value all that I did accomplish during my WD years. I pushed through the hard days, I kept very active, I had hobbies I enjoyed, I exercised, I studied, I traveled with my family. 

[Sarasmiles]

I'm feeling foolish, having just read the entire thread Altostrata referred to days ago, on bridging with Prozac.  I should have read it before beginning this switch, because she explains clearly that once the Prozac is on board, it is best to get off the other drug withing 2 weeks.  I have been on Prozac, 10 mg. for three weeks now, tapering off the Lexapro, and I took 4.5 mg. of Lex this morning. If I understood the basic theory explained on that thread, I should drop the Lexapro now.  I guess I was going along thinking slower was better, but now I see that doesn't apply when switching...

 

SO.  I will not take Lexapro tomorrow. I will stay on 10 mg. Prozac until I feel no further symptoms of withdrawal from Lexapro. They are very mild.  Then I will begin the taper off of Prozac.  I will get the liquid to do that.  Not sure if my pharmacy will substitute liquid for tablets unless my psychiatrist specifies that in a prescription, but I will find out, and if necessary get the prescription.

 

Is this truly complicated stuff, or is my brain foggy??

[Pugknows]

I couldn't even attempt the rocket science stuff involved with tapering. But my head is like lumpy mashed potatoes. With pea soup poured on top.

[Fresh]

Oh Sara , it's not just you!    This is very complicated stuff.

I wonder if it would help your doctor to copy the bridging thread for him?

[Sarasmiles]

 Thanks, Pugknows and Fresh.  That's a good idea, Fresh.  Maybe I will share it with my doctor - or at least some of the key points in the thread.

 

I'm scared to stop the Lexapro tomorrow, and I don't know what I'll do if I get a lot worse after I do.  I guess I will lean into the Prozac, instead of continuing to take both. That could mean increasing it, stabilizing on it and then beginning a slow taper. 

 

But I'm getting ahead of myself.  Maybe this is going to be alright.  

[Sarasmiles]

Yesterday I took no Lexapro. I took 10 mg. Prozac.  I felt okay.  I was cheerful, energetic enough, talking with people I ran into in a pretty outgoing, friendly way, which I don't do when I'm depressed.  We spent the day visiting with my mother in law, who is across the state in a geriatric psychiatry unit. She is 87 years old and has dementia.  She's been there about a week, suffering from terrible paranoia, and this was my third trip out to see her.  I hadn't mentioned that, but I am thinking a few details from my life will put the withdrawal issues in a real life context.  I guess what I'm saying is it was not an easy week, but I am okay.

 

Things are going better with my husband.  We have a truly wonderful couples therapist, and I can see how my husband is responding to his clear but gentle feedback.  I am learning to assert myself more, and my husband is learning to express his feelings a bit better.  We have a long way to go, but now we have help.

 

I'll also mention that I have a really good therapist, who helps me to see things clearly, offers tremendous support and empathy, and provokes a lot of insight.  I am very grateful for her help, too.   

 

In terms of self-care, I exercise just about every day.  We live in a suburb north of Boston. The whole area has been hit by several big snow storms this winter, making outdoor exercise challenging but not impossible.  I take walks in the woods with my beloved dog almost every day, and I breath in the cold, fresh air and turn my face to the sun when it shines.  I envision my brain absorbing the sun's healing powers.  

 

I also take yoga and pilates classes.  Yoga is twice a week, and pilates three times.  I find these exercises soothing, focusing, calming and strengthening.  I used to do a lot of boot camps, tabata and TRX...more hard core, intense workouts for sure.  Lately I want the quiet but still intense focus of yoga and pilates. 

 

For the month of January I did a "whole 30" .  This is an eating plan that eliminates grains, dairy, sugar, legumes and alcohol for 30 days. It focuses on whole foods: protein from grass fed and organic sources, vegetables, fruits, and healthy fats like coconut oil, olive oil and clarified butter.  It's essentially paleo.  I include plenty of starchy vegetables like sweet potatoes, white potatoes and butternut squash, as well as fruits.  I learned long ago that a low carb diet increases my irritability, so I am making sure this doesn't turn into that.  For the month of February I ate in basically the same way, except that a couple of times I had popcorn, and once I had a chocolate dessert my son had made and really wanted me to try. I am going to do another "Whole 30" starting today, for the month of March.  I like this way of eating. I think it stabilizes my blood sugar, eliminates cravings for alcohol or sugar, and makes me feel good.  My digestion is good, as is my sleep.

 

I also want to write here about my history with alcohol.  It's a long and storied one, but I'll just say that it isn't good for me. I have struggled to control my use of it for years, trying to keep it moderate but sometimes finding that very hard to do.  I finally gave it up for what I hope and plan to be for good, on November 12, 2014.  So sobriety is pretty new to me.  I'd done some stretches of it before...times of abstinence when I felt I wasn't doing well with drinking, and also three alcohol free pregnancies followed by very light drinking while nursing each baby for over a year... In any case, I am much better off without it.  As I look back on my many journals from years past, a pattern emerges.  There were several times when I was sober and got off antidepressants.  Then, after periods ranging from two weeks to six months, I began to feel anxious, irritable and unhappy.  Then I'd drink again, trying, I know, to self-medicate with alcohol.  I'd get worse, of course.  Then I'd decide I needed to go back on medication.  I'd give up drinking again, take the drug, feel better, and determine that I needed the SSRI to feel good, and to stay sober.

 

There is a connection here that I am beginning to understand.  It seems as though perhaps I had protracted withdrawal symptoms.  Then I drank, to try and ease the symptoms (particularly anxiety and irritability).  Then the over-use of alcohol made me depressed. Then I went back on meds. I stopped drinking for a while. I felt better.   Months would go by and something might trigger me to drink again...some stressor would lead me to turn to an old, familiar, dysfunctional "coping mechanism", and I'd reach for the chardonnay.   Sometimes it would go the other way. I'd feel good, and think I was pretty stable and secure in my sobriety. Then I'd decide I wanted to get off the meds (usually because of sexual side effects, not being able to cry, feeling that I was numbed...) and I'd go off of them. Then I'd have withdrawal symptoms, either right away or weeks or months later.  Then I'd drink again, and the pattern repeated.

 

I want to break this pattern. I can never drink again. If I do, I will never know whether or not I can be okay without medication. I want my poor, dear old brain to heal. I want it to be free from the assaults of psychiatric drugs and alcohol. Now that I know about protracted withdrawal, I can recognize it; see that it's not a reason to drink or to go back on meds...This will be a long process. I see that now.  I am grateful to have this site as a place to stay grounded and reflect on what's going on. 

[Sarasmiles]

P.S. I woke up and felt dizzy and light-headed this morning. I sat with it for a few minutes, and then took my 10 mg. of Prozac.  It is starting to clear.

[clearday]

The Spring will do us all a load of good. It's hard to go running and do other outside activites when snow is piled up on the sidewalks. And it's hard to walk the dogs when there's two feet of snow on the ground. Outdoor activities help distract us, help us heal, and pass the time as we plod through withdrawal. Looking forward to Spring!

[Sarasmiles]

Yes, spring will be good for us all!

I forgot to include another part of my self care.  I am taking fish oil, magnesium, b-complex, vitamin D, and a multi-vitamin.

 

Today I feel a little spaced out and tired, but no brain zaps.  

[Sarasmiles]

Day 4 without Lexapro.  The only  withdrawal symptoms I have so far are slight dizziness at times, and tiredness late in the day.  I am tolerating it okay.   I am sleeping like a rock, although when I woke up to pee at 5 am this morning, I lost my balance slightly...stumbled and had to grab the sink to steady myself. It was just the same feeling I used to have sometimes when I'd had too much to drink.  I assume it was a withdrawal effect.

 

My mood is good, actually. Better than it was a few weeks ago on 20 mg. of Lexapro.  I don't know if that's because 10 mg. of Prozac is giving me a boost, or because I am better without the Lex.  I am not even objecting to the sleepiness late in the day. I'm just accepting it, and not expecting much of myself. This would have been very hard when my kids were little, or if I were working full time until late in the day.  As it is, I can ask the kids for some help with dinner preparations and clean up (which they are used to) and happily curl up with a book and a cup of herbal tea after dinner. I am asleep by 10 pm.

 

I stumbled on a wonderful talk by Joanna Moncrieff on Youtube.  I've ordered her book. I believe every word she says. She impressed me even more than David Healy, Joseph Glenmullen or Peter Breggin, all of whom I admire.  Here's a link, if anyone's interested: 

 

I want to get off of Prozac NOW.  I keep reminding myself of Alto's advice to stabilize on it before tapering.  My psychiatrist and therapist both want me to wait until spring or summer.  I've been reading Peter Breggin, who talks about not prolonging withdrawal unnecessarily, and taking a "person centered" approach to withdrawal, making decisions about cuts based on the person's response, not on a pre-set schedule.  This makes sense to me.  I intend to stay on 10 mg. Prozac until the dizziness from coming off of Lexapro is gone, unless of course it goes on for months. If that's the case, I'll have to reassess.  Based on past experience, it has lasted less than a month for me.  I will see.  Once that is gone, I will begin to taper off Prozac.

[clearday]

Thanks for the link to this brilliant lecture! It's great to know that the message is slowly getting out. People like Dr. Joanna Moncrieff are going to save so many people from what we've had to go through, once the medical community finally wakes up. Doctors need to stop prescribing these drugs like candy; and everyone needs to finally recognize how powerful and harmful they are. 

[Sarasmiles]

I saw my therapist today. She was clear that she is worried about the idea of my going off of the Prozac. She has seen me when I've gone off of meds, and she reminded me of how I cried every day, and how I lost confidence at work. She doesn't want to see me go through that again. When I told her I thought that the crying and lack of confidence were related to withdrawal, she said, "you were like that for three months. That's a long time for withdrawal. I've never seen anyone else suffer a withdrawal effect for that long."  I wanted to refer her to this site, and make her believe that people DO suffer that long, and longer.

 

Now I feel alone. She is supportive in many ways, but how do I proceed when my trusted therapist thinks going drug free would be a huge mistake?

[clearday]

she said, "you were like that for three months. That's a long time for withdrawal. I've never seen anyone else suffer a withdrawal effect for that long."  

 

Now I feel alone. She is supportive in many ways, but how do I proceed when my trusted therapist thinks going drug free would be a huge mistake?

 

So she doesn't even support a slow taper from Prozac? She wants you to stay on Prozac indefinitely?

 

If so, that is very common. Many of these doctors believe their patients need to stay on SSRIs for life. They keep trying different SSRIs until the nervous system is in complete disarray and then the patient comes here to try and clean up the mess. 

 

For me, it is already clear that going ON these drugs in the first place was the huge mistake. HUGE mistake.

 

If I said it once, I'll say it a thousand times, if I could do ONE thing over in my life, it would be to never have taken SSRIs.

 

If I read your situation correctly, you are considering two options:

 

One, stay on SSRIs for the rest of your life, and put up with the undesirable side effects that you mentioned earlier in your thread; or

 

Two, slowly wean off SSRIs, and deal with the withdrawal as it unfolds, for better or for worse. And after a year or so of tapering, and seeing how it all goes, you will be off the SSRIs. And once withdrawal is over, whenever that is, you will be largely the person you were before you started taking the SSRIs.

 

Is that the situation?

[Sarasmiles]

Thank you again, Clearday. Yes, I guess that's pretty much the situation, although my therapist wouldn't say she wants me to stay on Prozac indefinitely.  She says wait. She says I should wait until I have a year of sobriety under my belt, and have done more work in couples therapy.  She wants me to feel better about my marriage before I try to taper off of Prozac.

 

My thought is that I have been using drugs for years in order to better tolerate my marriage. I have often thought, "I can't go off of meds because without them I'll be too unhappy in my marriage, and I have three kids to think about."   So what does that mean?  Stay numb and stay quiet?  Don't rock the boat?  Of course my therapist would say no...work on the marriage and improve it, or leave it.  She thinks working on it will be harder if I am not on medication. I think she's probably right about that. But I feel as though the medication is a chemical lobotomy.  Or a straight jacket. It keeps my feelings and my words and behavior under control, so that I am easier for my husband to live with.  Maybe that sounds dramatic, but that's how I think about it sometimes. 

 

Honestly, it is a strong drive to be my "true self" that makes me want to get through a taper and be free.  But that raises huge questions!  What if my "true self" isn't happy? What if my "true self" doesn't want to be married, or doesn't enjoy being a mother?  What if my "true self" is anxious and depressed  all the time?  Then am I better off being my medicated self, no matter how false? These are questions I want to raise in this community, because many people must consider them.

 

It is NOT sexual side effects or weight gain, as awful as they are, that make me want to be free.  It is far deeper and more philosophical than that.  It has to do with wanting to live in reality. 

 

I can't imagine taking a year to taper off of Prozac, as you mention.  I see it all over this site...go slowly, take your time, wait...I don't know how people can do that.  How did you?

[clearday]

All that you said makes sense.

 

I can personally relate to medicating one's way through a difficult marriage. It's so common.

 

I think your doctor makes a good point, that trying to go off medications now could add an additional challenge into your marital therapy. 

 

Getting off these drugs is an unpredictable process. Maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones who will not have a difficult and extended withdrawal period. But maybe not. Since you went off Prozac in 1996 with no major withdrawal problems, that is a good sign for what you may expect. When tapering/withdrawing from these drugs, it is best to have most of your energy devoted to it, and not to other pressing concerns. 

 

As for me, I never tapered. I always cold turkeyed because I didn't know any better. If I could do it over, I would have done a long, slow taper. But I also believe I would have gone through significant withdrawal even while doing that. But that is just me, I am very sensitive to going off these drugs. Tapering just softens the landing, or so they say. 

 

I also wanted to get off these drugs to be my "true self", among other reasons. I was willing to tackle the dysthymia without the SSRIs because I don't like being on SSRIs. I am basically the same person I was at 30 when I went on the SSRIs, but I am now 20 years older, wiser, and calmer. I am under less stress. The dysthymia hasn't come back, but I still am my slightly depressive self. My old psychiatrist used to say to me that I "operate from a depressive substrate". I agree with him on that. I am certainly ok with that. I don't need these SSRI drugs. That's just me. 

 

It is a tough choice for you. Yes, these medications may help to quiet our natural feelings and tendencies that pop up and can rock the boat. The medication may help to "keep the peace". But like you said, at what cost? I hope you are able to discuss all this with your spouse. 

[Sarasmiles]

Do you think it's possible to taper too slowly?  Could it be that people suffer longer because they draw it out for months or years?  Could it possibly be better to suffer more intensely, but for a shorter period of time?  Or does it never work that way?

[clearday]

Do you think it's possible to taper too slowly?  Could it be that people suffer longer because they draw it out for months or years?  Could it possibly be better to suffer more intensely, but for a shorter period of time?  Or does it never work that way?

 

I have thought about that lately -

 

I hope someone who has experience with long slow tapering will help you answer that question. 

[Sarasmiles]

 

 

 

For me, it is already clear that going ON these drugs in the first place was the huge mistake. HUGE mistake.

 

If I said it once, I'll say it a thousand times, if I could do ONE thing over in my life, it would be to never have taken SSRIs.

 

 

Same here, Clearday. I feel just the same way.

[clearday]

Do you think it's possible to taper too slowly?  Could it be that people suffer longer because they draw it out for months or years?  Could it possibly be better to suffer more intensely, but for a shorter period of time?  Or does it never work that way?

 

The general consensus on here is that people should taper as slow as needed to reduce the shock of withdrawal to the nervous system.

 

Here is a recent discussion on slow tapering, always emphasizing to go very slow at the end when dropping from 1 mg to zero: 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7527-mattage/

 

And I bet you've already read through this thread, but in case not, there's a lot of important info:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

This diagram says it all, it demonstrates WHY folks with sensitive nervous systems must go very slow at very low doses:

 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/f3h1ao5ijfj93/papers#0yp2c8pbjrziaab

[Prestorb]

Hi SS, it sounds like you are really starting to see patterns in your life with alcohol and ADs and that sounds like a lot of progress for you. It's not easy to step back and evaluate the things that have brought us to where we are. I appreciated reading your history and can relate to much of it, although I don't have the problems with alcohol. And we are both moms and close in age, I am 46.

 

A year may seem like a long time to taper but it really is not. What I have seen as a pattern in looking at posts on this site for almost a month now is that the folks that taper have far fewer WD symptoms and are generally just less miserable during the process. I have CT twice with both Lexapro and Paxil, and even recently tried a fast taper with Paxil (10 mg per week). I was a mess with the CT, only marginally better with the fast taper. I was trying to switch to Zoloft and that didn't work well for me, which brought me to this site.

 

I personally think that trying to CT drastically increases the chances that one will relapse either to another AD, or something else, alcohol in your case. We can only withstand so much misery and pain, before we seek out ways to reduce it. With all the healthy things you are doing with exercising and eating, you should have very good results with a slow taper. And a year will pass in no time. Brassmonkey has done a very long, slow taper off Paxil with really good results, check out his thread. He also had an alcohol issue when he started, and he doesn't now. But he has been very methodical in his approach, which I know is tedious but it's the harm reduction approach. Our bodies and neurosystems have to adjust to all the changes and it just takes time and patience.

 

Glad you are feeling pretty well right now, hang in there and keep the faith, cheers! ☺️

[Sarasmiles]

Thank you for the links, Clearday, and the observations and thoughts, Prestorb.  I wasn't thinking of going cold turkey, just wondering if a reduction over a few months would be much higher risk than over a year.  It seems as though I've read a lot of stories on here of people suffering terribly even with very long, slow tapers, but I understand that the consensus is that there is less suffering that way.

 

I am inclined toward Peter Breggin's idea that you can't apply a set schedule to everyone who is tapering. He suggests that we have to see how each individual responds to each reduction.  I guess the problem is, that might not be a predictor of protracted withdrawal. I could do okay making a 10% cut every two weeks, but still crash six months down the road.  

 

It all terrifies me.  Coming here and reading peoples' stories, so few of which are happy ones, terrifies me...but I feel compelled to do it, nonetheless.

[Prestorb]

I feel the same Sara, it is very scary not knowing how we will respond after we take the last dose, even with a slower taper. Right now I have to believe it will be better than what I've already experienced. And as much as I really want to be completely free of the medication, I am also not willing to sacrifice a reasonable quality of life for it. But that is an individual choice. Like you, I have a child and husband to care for and how I feel affects them (a lot!).

 

And yes, a lot of the stories here are terrifying and I think that's just the nature of the withdrawal or discontinuation process. None of us would have even found it if we weren't suffering to the extent that we are literally looking for help anywhere we can find it! But it is SO validating to find other people experiencing similar symptoms for similar reasons - thank God, I am not going completely insane!

 

I don't know if you have had a chance to look at the Success Stories forum, but it is really encouraging. I just found out my brother-in-law has come off his AD within the last year, and I remember my sister saying that she thought he would be on them for life. She says he feels better now than he has in a long time. I don't know exactly how long he took them, but he's 55 so I think it's been a pretty long time.

[Sarasmiles]

Day 6 without Lexapro.

 

Prestorb, thank you for the reminder to read success stories, and thanks for the story about your brother in law.  I agree, it's validating to read about people sharing symptoms of withdrawal, and also encouraging to read about successes.

 

Today I was thinking about "the placebo effect".  I heard an interesting story on public radio about the big studies that came out last year suggesting that SSRI drugs work primarily because they give people a sense of hope, at least in cases of less than severe depression.  It made me think that I could be susceptible to something similar, in terms of withdrawal effects.  If I focus too much on how bad it can be, how awful the withdrawal often is, I may be more likely to experience it that way myself.  Just a thought.

 

I also listened to a podcast on NPR of an interview with a psychiatrist named Julie Holland.  She's written a book called "Moody *******: The Truth About the Drug You're Taking, the Sleep You're Missing, The Sex You're Not Having and What's Really Making You Crazy".  Wow. Amazing.  She writes/talks about the use of psychiatric drugs to numb us, make us less emotional, and less sensitive...Everything she said rang true with me. I ordered her book. 

 

Today I felt very good, actually.  I am off of Lexapro and have decided to begin to taper Prozac, cutting 10 % yesterday and today.  I was a little bit dizzy today, but not bad at all.  I also noticed some good things.  I was browsing through Facebook and watched a couple of touching videos people had posted links to.  And here's the thing. I found them touching!  I got choked up. I didn't quite have tears in my eyes, but I had goosebumps!  It has been a long time since I felt this way. I was not numb.

[Rhiannon]

I haven't known many people who have actually "suffered terribly" with long slow tapers. Actually I can't think of one.  Are you sure you're not talking about people who CT'd or came off really fast, got sick, reinstated, then tapered? Or perhaps your definition of "long, slow" is not the same as mine.

 

An actual slow taper, starting stable and staying stable, people usually don't have severe symptoms with that. That's why they do it that way! Otherwise there would be no point.

 

I'm not going to pursue this further; you seem to really want to believe, in spite of your own past experience with your own body, that you can come off an AD fast this time and this time it will be okay. It's absolutely and completely up to you. I would advise against it based on my experience with working with people who do that.

[Prestorb]

Hi Sara (my real name is Rachel by the way!), I will definitely check out the book too, always looking for something good to read. Thanks for sharing it! I'm glad you had a good day, it is nice to "feel" your feelings when you haven't felt much of anything for a while. Not so good when you are feeling them so much that you are crying all the time - I have had some of that the last few weeks! But at the 10 mg Paxil versus 5 mg for a couple of weeks, I am much less "teary" which is more "normal" for me (I think).

 

I personally have a "glass half empty" personality, and always tend to see what needs to be fixed or done or whatever - it literally has driven me a little crazy, haha, and I think the ADs changed that part of my personality a lot, which I like! But then they changed other parts of my personality too, which I did not like. I try to force myself to NOT focus on the bad and that is a conscious effort, my mind just wants to go there. But like you said with the placebo effect, I think we really can attract negative things into our lives if that is all we focus on. I have been trying hard to just stay busy so I don't dwell on all this WD stuff too, too much. I can easily kill a lot of time this way, but then I feel lousy because I've neglected other things that need to be done. Before the meds, I never had that problem, I was all about getting **** done! Maybe to the extreme, but I'd like to have some of that energy back.

 

Anyway, if I am down, I only read the success stories, too much of the others just freak me out. And there are certain posts that I always find uplifting, so I make sure I read those. I have to say that I am a little concerned about you starting your taper on Prozac when it is only Day 6 of being off Lexapro (there I go seeing the glass half empty), but I hope it is for nought. My concern is that you are not going to be able to tell the difference between the side effects from coming off Lexapro and the side effects from tapering Prozac. My personal experience with Lexapro and Paxil is that you feel the physical symptoms the first couple of weeks or so. After those subside, you start to feel the emotional symptoms. But hopefully, the Prozac will be kicking in for you so that the emotional symptoms will be less severe.

 

Hope you have another good day tomorrow! ☺️

[Prestorb]

You poor thing, you have THREE boys! OMG, I have one 11 year old boy and I am positive that I would be absolutely bonkers if I had three! I love him to death but he also drives me nuts most of the time, I think his personality is the exact opposite of mine. Just saw that in one of your earlier post and had to comment, anyone with 3 boys deserves a medal in my book!

[Sarasmiles]

You're right, Rhiannon. I don't want to believe I have to go as slowly as is recommended here, and since I came here for guidance, it would be hypocritical (not to mention annoying to others) if I don't take that guidance and then I end up complaining if I don't do well. 

 

Prestorb, thank you so much for your insights.  I see what you're saying about tapering off the Prozac so soon after tapering off the Lexapro.  I guess I was thinking, I'm in this now...let's just keep forging ahead. But I will not do that. I will see how I do without the Lex, but with the Prozac, for a while. How long do you think?

Yup...three boys! They are wonderful, and sometimes impossible, and funny and infuriating and loveable.  You know how it is!

[Prestorb]

It's not annoying at all Sara, I think everyone gets impatient as soon as they start feeling better. These are the waves and windows people refer to, which is discussed in detail in the Self Care forum I think.

 

I get impatient too, but I JUST had the experience of tapering off Paxil while going on Zoloft, and I was an emotional basket case for a month until I finally went back to just 10 mg of Paxil. The emotional WD symptoms didn't kick in until after I was completely off the Paxil, so I tried increasing my Zoloft dosage but the physical side effects were bad, and I just didn't want to take it. Two weeks after my last dose of Paxil, I found this site (thank God!) and reinstated 5 mg for two weeks while tapering down the Zoloft. Two weeks later, I increased the Paxil to 10 mg, and I just stopped the Zoloft completely 2 days ago. I felt so lousy emotionally during the last month of this process that I am in NO hurry to taper the Paxil. I just want to hang here for a bit and try to get some semblance of normalcy back.

 

I was really confused until I found this site because I intuitively felt that I was having WD from the Paxil, but I wasn't sure what was WD and what was side effect from the new med (Zoloft). My psychiatrist wanted me to increase my dosage on the new Zoloft, which I tried for only a few days at a time and felt terrible, so I just went back to the starting dosage. As soon as I reinstated the 5 mg Paxil, I immediately felt better but I was still struggling emotionally. The 10 mg seems to have had a stabilizing effect. I was at 40 mg almost 2 months ago, so I am happy with this reduction, it's a lot faster taper than recommended but I didn't know any better at the time. I want to hold here partly to see if I will have additional WD symptoms that just haven't hit me yet, and partly because I just don't want to deal with any symptoms resulting from a cut. I'm just tired from what I've already been through.

 

If I were you, I would hold for at least a month for the same reasons I am holding. Just keep doing all the good self care you are doing, go on about life, and try not to think about it for a month. If you are symptom free and you can actually do that, then you might be ready for a cut. And it will be warming up a bit, which will help us all! I am a Florida native and am so tired of this winter weather. I know it's nothing here compared to Boston, but to me, it is Boston!

[Sarasmiles]

Thank you again, Prestorb.  I am so grateful for your kindness and support!

 

I will hold on the Prozac at 9 mg. The reason I went off the Lexapro as fast as I did was that it was my understanding from Alto's comments on the "Prozac Bridge" thread that the original AD should be discontinued within two weeks of starting prozac.  I actually feared I'd waited longer than I should have by staying on the Lexapro for 3 weeks after starting the Prozac.  There are also references on this site to "the devil you know" and "the devil you don't", suggesting that it is better to just taper without a bridge or switch.  That makes sense to me, but Prozac is by no means a devil I don't know. I've spent much more time on Prozac than on any other AD.  

 

Anyway, I like your advice to just get on with my life and continued self care.  I will do that!  

 

I truly wish you well in your taper, Prestorb.  I've never taken Paxil, but it sounds like a devil of a drug, indeed.  You sound like you are being cautious and wise, and doing what you can to stay stable and take good care of the people you love.  Hang in there!