elliotsmum -- off Pristiq

[Eliotsmum]

Felt a bit yucky this morning, stomach upset, mild amxiety, gag reflex when I cough. Grrrr. Felt better after morning walk. 4/10 before walk, 6/10 after walk. Worries are because we booked our flights for a short vacation next months. (will i be ok? will i get anxiety on my vacation? am i in control of myself?) All the usual worries, I tried to work through the morning anxiety, by telling myself it was the morning cortisol rush, and not to use this as a time to reflect on life, worries etc. Tried positive affirmations and then got up.

 

OK, I want to ask the rest of you something that is really embarrassing and gross......i haven't had a solid bowel movement since I went off Pristiq in April. I assume this is normal....it's because my nervous system is on high alert, right? It worries me........ Fighting back the urge to cry now.........oops, OK, just a few tears down the cheeks...... I hope everyone is feeling a bit better today. Off to work,,,

[Baxter]

Hi,

 

Sorry you are having a rough time. You get a pat on the back for walking and making every effort to rise above the misery!

 

AD withdrawal is notorious for causing gut problems. I've read elsewhere that normal flora in the gut is messed up by ADs and wd. Probiotics and yogurt can help.

[Nadia]

E, I know what you mean about being nervous about your vacation. I have a vacation planned with my boyfriend in October, and it makes me nervous as well (sometimes it's downright dread I feel about it). But you know, I recently read that new, non-stressful experiences are very good for healing our brains. You will not be alone on this trip... let your husband take care of the details and, when you can, think of it as something that is going to help heal you instead of destabilize you. You will see new, pretty things! You will not have any responsibilities! It's going to be like a morning walk x 100! And if not, it can always be cancelled.

 

I too have had digestive trouble. Then I was diagnosed with amoebas, but after the medication I am worse. I wonder if I even really had the "bad" amoebas (there apparently is a type that doesn't do much harm and is indistinguishable in tests)... maybe my troubles were just due to anxiety and withdrawal. I am starting the Specific Carbohydrate Diet/Gut and Psychology Syndrome diet to see if it helps me (see Symptoms and What Helps for the thread). It is tough to follow because it requires a lot of cooking at home, but I'm lucky that my mom knows it in and out since my niece is on it for Ulcerative Colitis, and she is going to help me. I think even if you don't do it strictly it could help. Basically, it involves eliminating grains (which in the end you come to realize are a huge part of what we eat since they are cheap and filling).

[Eliotsmum]

Hi Nadia: Yes, I am trying to think this vacation will be fun. Last year we went to the same place, and it was so much fun and so relaxing. This year I'm worried I won't have control of myself. It's like I search for things to worry about. Today at work, a co'worker was abrupt to me, and I had to talk to a manager about something he did wrong.....now I'm stressed, had trouble eating lunch, tears running down face....I went for a walk with a co'worker and feel a bit better, I think I might get up from my desk and go for another one in a few minutes. (I think a fast walk works best) Grrrr. This isn't easy is it? I will come back to this site after work.

[ajay]

Eli, forgive the TMI, but yeah, solid stools are few and far between. I'm taking probiotics in hopes that will help. There are plenty of serotonin receptors in the gut, so I'm guessing that has a lot to do with it.

[Eliotsmum]

Crappy crappy morning...what the heck. The anxiety got the better of me this morning, started thinking negataive thoughts, what if I'm always like this, what if I have to back on ADS....why can't I get a hold of myself. I had 2 really good days this week and now it's gone down hill....I started sobbing uncontrollably, feeling like I was going to throw up. Had to take a whole clonazapam. Dragged my butt outside and went for a walk, I do feel better, but spaced out now. Have to delay going in to work now, 'cause I don't think I should drive after one of those pills. When will this get better?????

[Nadia]

E... I send you a great big hug. I know how frustrating it is when you think you are getting better and then make a turn for the worse. Hang in there... these things usually come in cycles and each cycle will be a bit higher than the last one.

[Eliotsmum]

Friday and Saturday were pretty good days. Slight morning anxiety that I worked through with a walk. I am also now starting to get anxiety before eating. This is what I used to happen to me when I was at the beginning of depression in 1986 and 1997. I scares me that it is happening to me again. Back then it was so bad I couldn't eat well, and went down to 95 lbs (I now weight a healthy 130). My counsellor says I'm experiencing flashbacks. I can work through it most of the time. But now I worry about it before it even happens. Grrr. Last night I went out for dinner with my boyfriend and the anxiety started. I ate my meal, but it was hard. This morning, anxiety again. Oh, and the yummy crab and shrimp salad was too rich I think, went right through me this morning.

 

I went to a Naturopath on Friday, it felt good that she did not discredit that I think this anxiety is from being recently off ADS. She is wanting to check my adrenal functions. I will have another appointment after she has the results. She mentined GABA and 5htp. I see others here have tried these. Were they helpful? Does anyone still take them? I am hopeful that the Naturopath willl be able to help me through this. And I think the counselling is helping too. She is helping me with some techniques to work through the anxiety.

 

We are going to try out the rec centre gym today. I am starting to introduce exercise as a regular part of my life now. I think it will be essental to help me get through this. I am trying to be hopeful. I believe my body wants to heal, that it will just take time and patience.

 

On a side note, my hives seem to be almost gone. I haven't taken an antihistamine in six days. sometimes I get a few hives in a hot spot, but they go away on their own. One major sign that my body is healing....right?!

[Altostrata]

Good to hear you had some good days.

 

The anxiety before eating is something others have reported as a withdrawal symptom. It's probably caused by hormonal changes to prepare you for eating. It does go away.

 

It's good your naturopath is understanding. Unfortunately, many of them subscribe to the now-discredited serotonin imbalance theory or chemical imbalance theory of mood disorders and, just like conventional doctors, will misdiagnose your symptoms and try to treat them as though they were "depression."

 

In general, serotonergics such as 5-HTP tend to exacerbate withdrawal symptoms. But it's very individual, some people say it helps sleep.

 

GABA taking orally does not pass the blood-brain barrier; it's not going to help your anxiety. You might find it slightly relaxing for your body, or it might make some symptoms worse. Again, people with withdrawal syndrome have unpredictable reactions to these substances.

[Eliotsmum]

Hmm.... you have burst my hopeful bubble.... So what types of things can help us? Please don't say time.....

[Altostrata]

Your naturopath suggested coping techniques -- those will help. She may have some nutrition suggestions for you that will assist your healing.

 

As for adrenals -- don't take anything that's stimulating, no matter what those tests show.

 

Stimulated adrenals ---> adrenaline ---> anxiety

 

As I recall, anxiety before eating was a relatively short-lived symptom, so you may not experience it long. Symptoms come in waves, fade, and disappear.

 

Your good days and hives going away are a very good sign! You may not recover instantly, but you're on your way.

[Eliotsmum]

pls help....this morning anxiety is really getting to me. This morning I woke up at 5:30am. I can't take this much longer. I try the deep breathigng aand tapping techniques, but my stomach is still in a knot. I worry about so many things during these episodes. The only think that seems to help is taking a clonazapam. but i feel like such a failure when I take one. I just don't want to go through this any more....... crying

[Eliotsmum]

I took 1/2 a clonazopam and went for a walk. Not going to work today. I just wonder if the depression is coming back?..........Maybe if you don't go through it the first time, but medicate....when you go off the meds, you have to go through it....? I'm going to call my pharmacist cousin today and ask him about this anxiety and the reference he made to the time the body needs to come back into balance.....

[Nadia]

Hi E! I'm sorry you're having a rough morning (or were, I guess with the time difference you're probably near the end of your day). Anxiety is the worst, isn't it? And it's roughest when it is combined with depression. That's what gets to me the most, because it all seems so hopeless. And if you didn't get good sleep to boot, it's awful!

 

I have not taken any clonazepam or Xanax (the two things I tried) for my anxiety and insomnia since July 9th. It's been rough, but I think I'm actually improving by not taking anything, not even valerian or calming teas. Instead I walk (inspired by YOU, by the way!) and do positive affirmations, and meditate and tap and distract and work and try to sit in the sun if it peaks out (it's our rainy season here so every time it comes out I run out to get 15 minutes). It is frustrating because none of those things are as quick and absolute as taking a pill, and many times I do feel hopeless, like I'm not progressing or even getting worse... but I think they DO all help and slowly build up. I found a lot of relief with acupuncture and on Saturday with getting a massage. In the end I think we just need to be patient and realize it's going to be slow, NOT steady, climb up into health. I try to remind myself that all the tumult is probably a SIGN that we are healing... it's perhaps a frenzied show of our brains finding balance. You know when you try to balance on one foot, and suddenly you're going to lose your balance and you jerk around every which way so you don't fall over? That's what I imagine our brains are doing. And we just have to breathe and find our centers and eventually we will be still and calm again. It will take a while but we will get there.

 

Know that you're not alone in this either! I'm holding your hand virtually miles and miles away, wishing you the fastest and deepest recovery possible!

[Baxter]

Eliotsmum, Sorry you've had a bad day. When the morning anxiety gets me off to a bad start, the day can seem completely endless. But it passes - eventually. Not relying on benzos is a courageous step and you need to give yourself a pat on the back for your decision to do without. And if you have been using benzos, even small amounts, you may be seeing some effect from stopping them. Your body's fight/flight mechanism is readjusting. The anxious mornings will pass and over time, you'll have fewer of them.

 

Cyber- hug to you.

[Altostrata]

Eliots, it's not relapse, it's withdrawal syndrome. Morning anxiety is a typical symptom.

 

If you have to take a benzo occasionally, don't blame yourself. Take as little as possible, the lowest effective dose. Cut pills into quarters or smaller if necessary.

 

Benzos are two-edged swords, as Baxter pointed out. When they wear off, there is often an anxiety rebound effect. So you may pay later.

[Eliotsmum]

At least I had some yogurt for breakfast. I only take a clonazam when I feel I absolutely have to. I don't like taking them and try to take the least amount possible. They are 8 years old (expires), so even if I take a 1/2 a pill, I think they are less powerful than if I had a new prescription. I tried the tapping and deep breathing this morning, and I just couldn't get the nervous stomach, feelings of dread to go away. I think I have to get up and walk right away. I feel like the worry is taking over my life. I am now going to go shower, and go for another walk. I want to go see my Dr. but don't know what he can do. I don't think he can do anything for me. I have made an acupuncture appointment for this afternon

 

My biggest concern right now is my boyfriend. (I live with him) He has been VERY supportive, and understands that this is w/d from antidepressants. He is very kind to me, and goes for walks with me first thing in the morning. But I worry, that my anxiety is going to wear him down, that he is going to get fed up with this and leave me. He tells me he is not going to leave me, but I just don't know how he can stand it.

 

Thanks for your support and 'holding my hand'

[Altostrata]

It could be the worrying is also a withdrawal syndrome. Do what you can to stop worrying. Remind yourself to stay in the moment. Take deep breaths and if you want to walk, walk. Look at the trees, flowers, sky -- anything but going back to worrying.

 

Your significant other can only be impressed by your spiritual growth!

 

Do not worry or blame yourself for an occasional tiny dose of a benzo to get by. Trust in your judgement.

 

PS Eliots -- your signature says you are taking citalopram, I think you mean clonazepam.

[Eliotsmum]

Thanks A. I was starting to beat myself up for taking the occassional Clonaxepam. I do not like taking them, and only take when the anxiety gets the better of me, so I don't think I should worry about taking them. I went to acupuncture today, and she treated me for anxiety and withdrawal. Everyting to calm me and bring about well being. I then went to talk to a friend who has been through mild depression (no drugs) after her marriage broke down. She is a very upbeat person. We are going to walk after work a couple of times a week. She said this is one of the things that got her through her sorrow and anxiety. I am going to start a journal, to see if I can see any patterns in things that help. My acupuncturist gave me some words of advice to try and not let the anxiety 'take over'. She said that if I believe this to be a w/d symptom, then to expect it (not be surprised when it surfaces), and tell it, that I don't have any use for it today. That fearing it was feeding it. She said to recognise the anxiety for what it is, a w/d sympton, (like looking over and seeing your arm), tell it I have no use for it right now, say positive affirmations, and if need be, get up and move (walk). I AM fearing the anxiety because I've experienced it before, but this is not the same, and I have to recognize and believe that. She told me not to be angry at the anxiety, but just gently tell it, I have no need for it right now. Anger and fear will feed it. Sounds plausable.....I'll try it.

 

I'm going to the Dr tomorrow and ask him to check my iron, B12 and hormones. I keep forgetting post menopause symptoms may be involved. I'm going to talk to him about progesterone or estrogen patch. (low doses of course) But maybe this could help a bit for the time being. I know, small doses. I just need to realize, that I am in menopause, and there could be other things at play here. I'm not going to give up just yet. I'm gonna give myself a time limit, say 2 months to see some improvement, and then re'evaluate. Thanks for telling me to not get down on myself about the occassional clonaxepam. I was, big time. I feel wrung out.....my BF is cooking dinner. He is very sweet to me....guess I am lucky in some regards......

[Eliotsmum]

This morning was a struggle. Woke up at 6am with anxiety. Tried to talk to it, "In knew you would be here, this is part of my nervous system on high alert because of w/d, i am not upset or worried about anything in particular, this is just w/d anxiety, I DON:T HAVE ANY USE FOR YOU RIGHT NOW" I tried this over and over, and positive affirmations and breathing. Did this for an hour. Tried to stay in the moment and not project fear into the future.... It did not get worse. But then I took 1/2 a clonazepam. I just felt I needed to do that to help myself. Then went for a short walk with b/f. When I Got back home, I watered my garden and started feeling better. I am able to functin today. Got to say this is a struggle.... Alto, Baxter, you both went through this right? And it got better? I just don't know if I can continue the struggle at this level of intensity for years, it will get better, right???

[Nadia]

Good job and getting through your morning! I think for me, too, the worry about this lasting a long time is the danger. It's hard to come up with and stick to the right approach. I like what your acupuncturist said to do, I'm going to try it as well!

[Eliotsmum]

Went to Dr this morning. He said some hopeful things to me. He agreed, that while he wouldn't call it 'withdrawal', my brain chemicals and enzyme systems may be taking longer to balance out, and yes, this could be what the anxiety is all about. ......But I am barely functioning......

 

He gave me a new prescription of Clonazapam. I know others here are against them. But I have to do what is right for me. My Dr. assured me that I will not end up on 'skid row' addicted to a benzo, I don't have an addictive personality. He's right. I always try only to take the least amount I can get away with and only when I have to. So he told me to take 1/2 or a whole pill, only when I feel it necessary (up to 3 x per day....which I can't see myself doing!). When the time comes to stop them, he will help me if needed to stop taking them.....and I feel OK with that. He also said that he felt going back on an antidepressant medication at this point would be a step backwards. (I agree)

 

We also discussed menopause. He gave me a low dose of HRT to try. If it is part of the problem I'm having, I should feel better in a week or 2. My intuition tells me that menopause AND coming off these meds are a combination that is causing me more problems than I need to bear.

 

He is also referring me to a psychiatrist who can help me with the side effects of coming off the meds. I told him point blank, don't refer me to one who is just going to tell me to go back on those pills. Be sure -- if that happens, I will walk out of that office.

 

But I felt optomistic that he agreed that there is controversy right now in the medical community about what the drugs do, how hard it is to get off them, prolonged symptoms when your body can't get back into balance, and even if they should be prescribed for mild to moderate depression. So I feel better, that I'm at least looking into alternatives, to find the alternative that works for me.

 

I will continue to do accumpuncture a couple of times a week for calmness, and will go to the Naturopath with my pee sample today, to see what she has to say about my adrenal function. I will be cautious and smart before I take anything...... Off to work now.....

[Altostrata]

elliots, I wanted to commend your naturopath for providing the "I have no use for you right now" mantra to address your symptoms. It is exactly the right way to view them, as encroaching on your selfhood.

 

And congratulations on successfully deploying it. It's not a magic chant, but it may help you not to add to symptoms with your own worry.

 

Caution: Your doctor is incorrect about the addictiveness of benzos. It doesn't take an addictive personality to get addicted. It has to do with the way the drug interacts with your nervous system. There's no predicting who will get addicted at what point in taking them.

 

Please take them only occasionally. Aside from addiction, they tend to go paradoxical, especially if your nervous system is hypersensitive from withdrawal. This is when you take them and they make your anxiety worse, not better.

 

And then there is the anxiety rebound when they wear off.

 

So, all together, it's best to take them as infrequently and at as low a dose as possible.

 

Yes, I've been through all of this, including anxiety rebound and paradoxical effects from benzos.

[Altostrata]

Oh, just wanted to mention I am using a Menostar patch for HRT to help withdrawal insomnia. It is a mini-dose of estrogen (.14mcg/day), about half the usual estrogen dosage, and supposed to be safer.

 

If you see a psychiatrist, remember taking medication is a voluntary action on your part. You cannot get medicated unless you cooperate.

 

If you find the new psychiatrist, or any doctor, gives credence to withdrawal syndrome, please let us know!

[Eliotsmum]

Hi Alto: I will definitely heed your warning. I will only take the clonazepam when necessary. I will be very cautious. I have no intention of going back on any antidepressant meds. It will be interesting to see if the psych has anything interesting to say about w/d. My Dr. said I couldn't go on the estrogen patch, because I still have all the 'equipment' hee hee. It's a low dose HRT.... .5 mg Etstradiol, .1 mg norethindrone

[Eliotsmum]

Woke up only with mild nervousness, but felt naseous (sp?). My poops are terrible! That in itself upsets me. 5/10 before walk, 6/10 when I got back from morning walk. I will ask the Naturopath about that when I go back and see her. I didn't mention it before. I worry that the HRT I am going to try isn't going to fix this. I think it won't. But it may help me with menopause symptoms.....Still looking for the magic bullet....grrrr I walked with a friend last night. Maybe we over did it. We did a fast walk for 45 minutes. My bf is telling me to take it easy. Perhaps he is right. I think I can go to work today. So that is a good thing. My mind is distracted from all this when I get to work.

[Nadia]

A lot of the symptoms of going off ADs seem to overlap with menopause! I was talking to my cousin, who is going through it, and she said she had anxiety and now has trouble sleeping. My mom, who is now 69, told me that ever since menopause she can't sleep in, and sleeps about 6 hours a night. They both started suspecting I was pre-menopausal, but my hormones seem to be fine (of course, the range is so wide for what is "normal", how do you know compared to how YOU used to be? I don't have a reference). Anyway, this certainly complicates things. Except I've noticed that my cousin does well taking valerian, and she doesn't have the dizziness and sensory weirdness that I do. But I can see how if you're going through both things at once, the symptoms can compound! I bet that can be really frustrating.

 

Have you ever considered bio-identical HRT? I've heard good things about it. It might be gentler on your system.

[Eliotsmum]

Hi Nadia: Yes, I am considering the bio identical ones. I'm on the regular kind right now, but if they seem to work, I will consider switching to the bio identical ones. I need to do more research....

 

So your cousin had anxiety during menopause? Really? Hmmm... In my next life I want to come back as a man... hee hee

 

I am hoping the HRT will help some of the menopause symptoms, and help me function better and get through the ADS w/d. Grrrr

 

My holiday is coming up next week. I'm trying not to think about it, incase I get anxious about it. I just talked to my sister-in-law who lives in Kelowna where we are going, and she recommends I keep up with the walking as a stress reducer. She says it has helped her. After talking to her, think I feel good about going (at least right now) Ha ha.

[Altostrata]

Being pre-menopausal and menopausal does seem to complicate withdrawal. So many women have been on antidepressants for years and years.

[Eliotsmum]

Every morning, I wake up nervous and shakey and naseous. I am trying to be brave, and remain calm. To embrace my nervous stomach as an adult and say it's OK, it's OK. But this is scarey. 4/10 this morning. I do not like this........trying not to cry.......

[Eliotsmum]

2 hours later. OK, I can see that the morning walk helps, I felt a bit better after....then listened to the nature channel on TV and did deep breathing, felt even better after that. But the morning has not been without a few crying spells and feeling sorry for myself. I just purchased 2 books from Amazon, Self Hate and Compassion, and Learned Optimism. A lady at work yesterday, who used to be a community counsellor, told me that you can get into a vicious cycle with anxiety. I know that this is part of the w/d, but I have a feeling that with some techniques, the anxiety can be lessened. She said it starts with the thoughts that go through your head. Here's mine. Will this last forever, will I be like this every day, when will this end, am I going to feel nervous at lunch time again, and not be able to eat my lunch... I feel so horrible, I feel hopeless....you see, I feed the anxiety. I read the posts about neuroplasticity....and what I got from that is that we can change our brain and our emotions, by changing our thoughts, meditation, mantras, positive self talk, so in theory, we should be optimistic....its just that this is a struggle, and I DON'T WANT TO STRUGGLE!......anywho....I am going to accupuncture today. I hope it helps..... Off to work

[Nadia]

I hear you with the "I don't want to struggle!" I have to fight that thought off every few minutes. Optimism seems to come so naturally to some people. What I am hoping is that our struggle will lessen with time... we'll get the whole boat moving in the other direction, and then inertia will help us along. Then it will be like when you are on a bike and you can stop pedaling for a bit and just coast. Good job on all your efforts!

[Altostrata]

I think we all worry about "will this last forever?"

 

Would love to hear about the techniques that relieve anxiety for you, elliots. You might post topics in Symptoms and What Helps or Finding Meaning (for the more spiritual side).

[Eliotsmum]

So I went to work on Friday, and thought I would have to leave due to anxiety. But I don't know how, I seemed to pull myself together and actually started to feel better. I worked the whole day. Then saw my niece who I hadn't seen for 3 years. I was so happy to see her. I had 2 good days! Saturday and Sunday. Monday, not so good, had to hold it together, felt sick, didn't eat much, but I did manage to eat dinner. I am so anxious these days that I'm not eating well, and therefore, not feeling well, I'm sure this adds to the anxiety, but I can't seem to help it. Today is not good, staying home from work. Crying all morning, Feeling hopeless and helpless. I told my boyfriend that I didn't think I could go with him on our 5 day trip this Friday. I'm just not feeling good. He was hoping that I would have a few more good days, and realize that I could do it. I told him I wanted him to go, but he said, how can I go with you here unwell. He is disappointed, and now I feel even worse. I just feel so aweful. What is happening to me. Why is this happening to me. I just want to feell good again. I can't struggle like this for much longer....I took a 1/2 a clonazepam this morning, but it didn't seem to help. I just feel doped out now, and upset and nauseous. I called my Dr. to ask when they would be referring me to a psychiatrist. They are calling me back this morning. I need help. I feel like my life is unravelling again. Is taking an ADS the only way for me to feel better. Would it be so bad? My life is in the toilet right now. I am on day 6 of HRT, not noticing any difference yet....

[Altostrata]

elliots, these bad spells, which seem so vivid, come in waves.

 

It may very well be that when the time for the trip comes, you will feel better. Don't give up things that make you feel good. Looking forward to the trip might lift your feelings.

 

Just tell your boyfriend you will have to take it easy and tone down the plans to what you feel comfortable with.

 

What kind of trip is it?

[Eliotsmum]

we are going to visit a friend of his. We will be staying at his friends house. Last year when we went, it was very relaxing. I just worry that I will feel horrible, and I will be away from home, I just don't want to feel bad anymore. I have a friend over right now, and I am trying to eat breakfast, but my stomach is so sour, I feel so upset, I'm a bundle of nerves, and I feel like throwing up. I don't want to feel like this much longer. I worry, I will 'lose it' on this trip, away from home. I can't go through this much longer...this is hell.....