Psychiatric drugs toxicity - permanent damage?

[clearday]

Well, these drugs certainly are powerful, no doubt about that. And doctors have certainly ignored our cries for help. And they continue to be in denial about the existence of protracted SSRI syndrome. If I could do one thing over in life, it would be to have never taken these SSRIs which have turned out to be toxic for me, causing me difficult long-term problems. 

 

Many people swear by these SSRI drugs. They definitely have helped thousands of mentally ill people to live a tolerable life compare to life without these drugs. And that is why they are so popular. And that is one reason why psychiatrists think these drugs are so great. But they overlook the harm that these drugs are causing so many of us, which we struggle so long with to heal from.

 

Regarding agnosia - yes, it is possible that there are people who feel that overall they have no harmful changes from years of SSRI use, but are at a lower level of functioning they are not aware of due to the effects of SSRIs. But for me, I'm very self-aware and would know even tiny differences between how I felt  before and after SSRI use. It's hard for me to imagine that so many people could walk around so clueless as to changes in how they feel over time. And the whole picture is muddied by the fact that our level of function slowly diminishes over time anyway due to aging and the cumulative effects of a lifetime of stress and use of alcohol and other drugs. So how do we know what agent took the toll on us. 

 

And also, there are people who say they feel better after taking years of SSRIs, post use. Those people give some doctors cause to say that yes, these drugs cause permanent change, and change for the better, that these drugs may "cure" some symptoms. I'm just not going along with that. People often naturally recover from bouts of depression and anxiety, I would be very skeptical of someone asserting that these drugs actually cause permanent change for the better.  

 

Thanks btdt - great to see someone looking in to this. The more the public becomes aware of the potential for harm that SSRIs pose, the better!

[btdt]

"Many people swear by these SSRI drugs. They definitely have helped thousands of mentally ill people to live a tolerable life compare to life without these drugs. And that is why they are so popular"

 

Yes I know I use to be one of those people who "swore" by the drugs... after I had a severe reaction to prozac I never returned to baseline.. and the drugs helped me.. sleep... not have as much pain ect. 

 

I was put on prozac or two wks to treat nerve pain in my leg I have had mental health issues ever since a bad reaction to it.  Because of me and my advocating Antidepressant use many of my family member are not addicted to these drugs and do not hear a word I say about them now.. as they are now swearing by them. 

 

These drugs change how we think... so do a lot of illegal drugs I am sure many alcoholics and crack heads swear by their drugs too. 

[jthebrave]

Some things may be permanent but  in my case I took prozac for 10 years. I was off of it for 4 years with absolutely no problems, nothing permanent that I could detect. Years later my original problem did relapse. Ignorantly I thought prozac may help again but I had a severe adverse reaction. I tried a couple of other SSRIs but my brain rejected all of  them.

 

I do believe something was permanentely changed because my brain violently reacted to the SSRI. However, I don't think that whatever was changed permanently makes me feel any different. Psychologically I recovered 100% from the prozac but I think something changed since I cannot take an SSRI again.

 

That's basically what happened to me. After being on meds for 13 years and tolerating them very well, I just can't take them anymore at this time. Why the hell is this? Every time I try to reinstate I feel like a have serotonin syndrome...heart racing, head pressure, difficulty breathing, and other symptoms that are not in my head...otherwise I wouldn't have been able to take the drugs for 13 years in the FIRST DAMN PLACE!!!!!

[Theon]

Is prozac the only AD that has been shown to cause these permanent changes in the brain? What about the other ADs and the rest of drugs?,

Or is prozac the only one that has been researched?. I hope for the sake of my brain that prozac does not end up being the worst of all ADs...

[Marta]

I think in a different way all Ads cause permanent changes in the brain...I have hope that in 30 years "good" medicine will understand what's really going on in our brain....so you are in good company

[Altostrata]

This is a concern that comes up over and over. If SSRIs permanently damaged the brain or nervous system, there would be no reason to come off them, and there would be no reason for this site.
 
The the brain and nervous system are constantly changing. If your brain and nervous system changed to accommodate the effects of the drugs, they can change again.
 
See

neuroplasticity = hope

Neuroplasticity - Norman Doidge MD Interview

Self-directed Neuroplasticity

Neuroplasticity, slow taper and recovery

Brain remodeling

“I wrote a new story for my nervous system” — neurosculpting - neuroplasticity....

The IT GETS BETTER SERIES

The Heart-Brain Connection: The Neuroscience of Social, Emotional Learning...

Andrews, 2012 Primum non nocere: an evolutionary analysis...

[Marta]

Thanks a lot Altostrata! 

[NoMeaning25]

Alto, i agree and accept, BUT

If these drugs dont do permanent damage, WHY am i not getting better at all at 37 months off.

 

I feel in my heart i will never get better. 37 months is too long with barely no improvements.

 

I am 26 years old. YOUNG!

[antidepressantsNoMore]

I think most times, people make a full recovery. It just can take years.

[NoMeaning25]

MOST times.

There are the very few rare exceptions and you are looking at one.

[dalsaan]

Nomeaning you seem determined to be permanently damaged. Nothing we say can change that, nor will anything that is posted on the site help you in that context.

 

I'm very sure you system has the capacity to heal given the right conditions. I'm just as certain that your beliefs and their effects on your nervous system are not conducive to healing.

 

I don't say that out of a lack of compassion. I say that out of devastation that you are undermining your healing potential to such as extent

 

Dalsaan

[NoMeaning25]

There are many people that are still very ill at 10 - 12 years off.

 

What is the definition of permanent then?

 

Im not negative. Im just stating that there are exceptions. No point in denying this. There are the very rare few people who are left disabled by this and there is no need for anyone to ignore this.

 

Im just someone suffering for 3 years straight with no improvement in sight. What conclusion am i supposed to come accross?

[dalsaan]

My definition of permanent is 'forever more'.   My question to you is what have the people who are still very ill over 10-12 years done in regard to their healing?   Monica at beyond meds argues that everything that you do matters for your health and prospects of recovering.   I would agree, it takes 100 little things.  That's the reason why it is important not to be fatalism and construct protracted withdrawal as permanent because when you do you stop looking for your 100 little things.

 

Dalsaan

[NoMeaning25]

Monica tapered off her drugs. To me that is a big difference to cold tukey and adverse reactions. I do not know what they have done to promote healing.

 

Sometimes one is just too sick to do anything. Even if its just something small like taking a walk.

 

Yes there is no point on dwelling on the idea that this is permanent, but when you have been suffering so severely for so long you kind of give up being positive and hopeful. I am too weak and severely affected to even attempt anything. I cannot do yoga, i cannot go for short walks. For a 26 year old thats devastating as it is.

 

It might be that the trauma ive had to deal with had a big impact. Im suffering from CPTSD and my outlook in life isnt too great atm.

[antidepressantsNoMore]

Monica tapered off her drugs. To me that is a big difference to cold tukey and adverse reactions. I do not know what they have done to promote healing.

 

Sometimes one is just too sick to do anything. Even if its just something small like taking a walk.

 

Yes there is no point on dwelling on the idea that this is permanent, but when you have been suffering so severely for so long you kind of give up being positive and hopeful. I am too weak and severely affected to even attempt anything. I cannot do yoga, i cannot go for short walks. For a 26 year old thats devastating as it is.

 

It might be that the trauma ive had to deal with had a big impact. Im suffering from CPTSD and my outlook in life isnt too great atm.

 

Don't give up hope. What about taking magnesium?

[btdt]

Iam not scared .I accepted long ago the fact that I will have to live with some damage .

I simply don`t understand  people reaction here .

It is like they are completely in denial that there will be some changes that are irreversible(may be in few years thanks to medical progress)and that will need people engagement to find a solution. 

They may improve(some will FEEL like they were before ) but to say that everybody will  be 100% like before is a pure blatant lie.

I guess most need some lies to keep going but the future generation owes us the truth to not make our mistakes .

May be we need to stop being egoistic and self-centred and just expose those medications for what they truly are :poisons 

Long-term effects of antidepressants

Antidepressants have been shown to produce long-term, and in some cases, irreversible chemical and structural changes to the body and brain.

The administration of Prozac and Paxil raises cortisol levels in human subjects (Jackson 2005, p.90). Given the fact that elevated cortisol levels are associated with depression, weight gain, immune dysfunction, and memory problems, the possibility that antidepressants may contribute to prolonged elevations in cortisol is alarming to say the least.

In a study designed to investigate the anatomic effects of serotonergenic compounds, researchers at Thomas Jefferson University found that high-dose, short-term exposure to SSRIs in rats was sufficient to produce swelling and kinking in the serotonin nerve fibers (Kalia 2000). Research performed by a different group of investigators showed that antidepressants can kill neuronsand cause structural changes similar to those observed in Parkinson’s in rodents.

I want to emphasize that what I’ve covered here is only the beginning of the story when it comes to the adverse effects of antidepressants. There are volumes of published research and many books which present this information with much more detail. I recommend Peter Breggin’s landmark “Brain Disabling Treatments in Psychiatry” and Grace Jackson’s “Rethinking Psychiatric Drugs” as resources if you are interested in pursuing this further.

I tried to read those books from Breggin and Jackson I had them for a time but could not think well enough to read them.  So here we are a few years later and somebody else has chewed if up for us and spit it back out.  

I for one respect Tanit's sensibilities tho I know it may be damaging for those in early wd who are struggling hard we must have room for the facts too.  Future generations..... !?

 

Check the dates of the studies I noticed 2000 and 2005.... and I wonder other to come after us will look at dates... our dates. 

 

2000 was the year I started Effexor had I known the truth I would not have taken it and may have saved myself from if not forever damage 10 years of wd.... 

 

2005 I was in tolerance and had no clue what was wrong with me... got sicker and sicker till I and my life completely collapsed and I lost it all have not recovered from any of it yet not financially sexually health ...not yet. 

 

What we those future people think when they read out posts ... they will know we know the damage of the drugs.. and they will come to learn how very powerless we are to change any of it ... or if we are the change is so slow this next generation will not see any benefit from our damage...

 

Perspective... do I have any... maybe not but this pace is way to slow... 

https://chriskresser.com/the-dark-side-of-antidepressants/

[Zeipii]

On 08/02/2015 at 10:04 PM, tanit said:

Iam not scared .I accepted long ago the fact that I will have to live with some damage .

I simply don`t understand  people reaction here .

It is like they are completely in denial that there will be some changes that are irreversible(may be in few years thanks to medical progress)and that will need people engagement to find a solution. 

They may improve(some will FEEL like they were before ) but to say that everybody will  be 100% like before is a pure blatant lie.

I guess most need some lies to keep going but the future generation owes us the truth to not make our mistakes .

May be we need to stop being egoistic and self-centred and just expose those medications for what they truly are :poisons 

fully agree, poisons

[jamesbond747]

I dropped at this webpage after being horrified for over a month with the meaning of irreversible antagonists and do they cause permanent nerve damage...

It solved my conceptions that nerve and nerve receptors are two different thing but yet even nerve receptors take a set amount of time to recycle themselves...

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/pharmacology-on-wikipedia-119246/

 

[Altostrata]

Whenever you come across medical terminology that alarms you, be sure to thoroughly Google it and find out what it means from a reliable source. Universities or textbooks are good. Very often, it's not what you think it is, and if you post it here, you might unnecessarily frighten people.

 

Here is Wikipedia's very incomplete description of irreversible antagonist

 

Quote

An irreversible antagonist is a type of antagonist that binds permanently to a receptor, either by forming a covalent bond to the active site, or alternatively just by binding so tightly that the rate of dissociation is effectively zero at relevant time scales.^[1] This permanently deactivates the receptor and is usually followed by rapid internalisation and recycling of the non-functional receptor protein. Irreversible enzyme inhibitors that act similarly are clinically used and include drugs such as aspirin, omeprazole and monoamine oxidase inhibitors.^[2]

 

We all know of people taking aspirin and omeprazole. They do not suffer permanent nerve or enzyme damage.

 

Here is a more complete description from a pharmacology textbook:

 

Quote

Irreversible antagonist: A pharmacologic antagonist that cannot be overcome by increasing agonist concentration

 

In other words, it is "irreversible" because another drug can't act on the receptors it affects. You have to wait for the "irreversible antagonist" to wear off. It does not cause permanent damage of any kind, the body gradually removes it and metabolizes it.

 

For example, monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) are an irreversible antagonist type of antidepressant. Doctors are cautioned to wait after a "wash out" period before starting a different antidepressant, because while the MAOI is being metabolized, it still occupies serotonin receptors and adding another serotonergic can cause serotonin toxicity. There is no question that the MAOI eventually wears off -- as do all "irreversible" antagonists.

 

I found this out by Googling, and you can, too. Please do this so you can post good, valuable information on this site. Someone's poorly informed suppositions from another forum site do not belong in our Journals and Scientific Sources section.

[Asi1309]

Do you think psychiatric drugs cause permanent damage?

Dr breggin says it is, I'm interested from a scientific stand point.

Maybe it does and we just unaware?

[Altostrata]

I think Dr. Breggin tends to exaggerate because he's very worried and wants attention for the problems of overprescription, incorrect dosing, excessive length of time on the drugs, and overlooking adverse reactions of psychiatric drugs.

 

Certainly if you take any drug at too high a dosage for too long, it may be harmful. If your liver gets damaged so much you need a liver replacement, that's a permanent change.

 

Otherwise, most people are experiencing modification from psychiatric drugs, but not necessarily permanent damage. Your nervous system is designed to constantly adapt. If it adapts to a drug, it can adapt back.
 

Even if you have no adverse effects from a psychiatric drug, if you've taken it for years, you will not be the same person after you go off. Time goes on, your body changes as you age, and you cannot step into the same river twice.

 

There is no point in working yourself up in worry about permanent damage. You're going to stay on the drug, reduce it, or go off. One way or the other, you'll go on to live your life. All of us are changed by everything that happens as we experience our lives.

 

[Asi1309]

This question is getting asked again and again both because of neuro emotions and 2 scary words: "permanent damage", now the drugs most certainly change the body and it most definitely change after the drugs are stopped as all thing in our body and nature does, now, I think it's more of a philosophical question: there was a "being" a "soul" certain "neurone composition" that made me - me.

This "thing" concludes our cognition and everything we conceive the world with, so if I'm taking an antidepressant im changing or even destroying myself as im not feeling me anymore, furthermore if you cold Turkey and scramble your mind and body even more, so if its destroying - then parts of what made you - you, are gone forever such as congnitin abilities and core memories like in TBI, or its merely a case of making changing temporary like drinking alcohol or taking drugs when you return to base quickly, or maybe it's the same as any other drugs just longer?

Because we know the brain change its structure to accommodate for the psych drug, and so what's happen when you stop and 5 years pass for instance. 

The reason it's scary is because its makes the entire ordeal real, it's not just being temporarily drunk, its remodeled your brain in a physical way, and maybe you're ending less you after if some systems in your brain destroyed after withdrawal, and you slower and less you overall.

Brain damage isn't a joke if I wanted one i would bash my head into a wall 1000 times... I know the message you're trying to convey is get over it nothing is perfect but this is seriously messing me up, and it's like a existential or philosophical crisis, like if I wouldn't took the drugs I would have been different then I'm now not only psychologically but *physically*. I'm no longer me and maybe we're all slower but we dont know it because we're too brain damaged to tell you know what I mean?

This is seriously messed up, I don't care if I'm better then before I want my old depressed self, because it was me.

I know I maybe just experiencing a neuro emotional crisis right now, but how is it not bothering yall?

This experience is much more then a withdrawal this is an ethical issue and violation of moral laws,  I was not pretend to get my brain remodeled...

 

[Altostrata]

Everything you experience changes you for the rest of your life.

[Asi1309]

Dr Breggin's always discussing about how the damge the psych drugs cause ie CBI is very similar to damge from TBI and concussions, and it makes sense as the brain only has so much mechanisms of response and repair. 

He states that the symptoms of cbi that we all experience and hopefully will experienced*, are a result of dysfunction of the brain - damge, it means that their is something wrong in brain function and that manliest itself both in symptoms (the drugs symptom which are unnatural and abnormal by nature), and in ct scan etc as shrinkage brain atrophy and abnormal cell division.

Now, if the symptoms are a sign of brain dysfunction then when the symptoms are gone and you feel normal agian then it must be a sign of brain healing.

Because when you take these drugs you feel awful becaus there are abnormal changes in your brain and when you stop and begin to feel better it must be a sign of some healing taking place. And if someone feel they're symptom free from psych drug use and withdrawal then the abnormal parts of their brain that cause that must be gone otherwise they will still experience symptoms.

There cant be no psych drugs symptoms- brain damge if there isn't symptoms present. 

When brain atrophy takes place there is also compromised brain function ie symptoms of cognitive nature and higher thinking but when the drug is removed and the patient no longer experiences cognitive struggles then it must suggest that some of its brain grew back, otherwise he wouldn't be able to demonstrate higher thinking abilities and executive performance. 

This is just me trying to combat my deepest nightmare that I'm possibly less human after using psych drugs for 4.5 years and now being in the midst of withdrawal...

I cannot let go of this question - the studies show that there is shrinkage in the frontal lobe the part that makes us human and responsible for higher thinking, abnormal cell growth and death. So maybe when we think even after we're symptoms free and beat the withdrawal we just dont realise we're less us Less human because we lost parts of our brain and just not aware because how can you be aware when part of what's make you an aware being has being destroyed, and maybe we're no different then people who had gone ECT and literally lost part of their brain - part of them...

That's my deep dark fears - I dont care about being depressed my entire life, I just pray for not having lost parts of my brain and what makes me -me, this is seriously scary stuff and a true nightmare.

Maybe we're all having anagnosia like peter says and we're less us then we used to be.

Depression is tough but this is REAL problems and something that really frightens me.

It's like that Ernest Hemingway quote after committing suicide due to ECT - the treatment was brilliant but the patient has died. 

I wish I've never took those drugs

[Altostrata]

Yes, I know what Dr. Breggin says. When something is "like" something else, that's not the same as being the same as something else.

 

There's a big difference between organic damage, where a physical part is broken or destroyed, as in traumatic brain injury or liver damage, and dysfunction in signaling.

 

Dr. Breggin is deliberately exaggerating the risk of psychiatric drugs because he wants to see them prescribed much less frequently. This has scared the pants off millions of people who decided to take the drugs without informing themselves about them first. Please do not take Dr. Breggin's warnings literally.

[Asi1309]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Yes, I know what Dr. Breggin says. When something is "like" something else, that's not the same as being the same as something else.

 

There's a big difference between organic damage, where a physical part is broken or destroyed, as in traumatic brain injury or liver damage, and dysfunction in signaling.

 

Dr. Breggin is deliberately exaggerating the risk of psychiatric drugs because he wants to see them prescribed much less frequently. This has scared the pants off millions of people who decided to take the drugs without informing themselves about them first. Please do not take Dr. Breggin's warnings literally.

The thing is that research and science says the same, it's not a matter of opinion rather of scientific truth.

After going through all this I feel like I can't tolerate anything but the truth. I want to know what the science and research says about long term use, and quitting etc...

I feel like you're going to quote that movie:

"You cant handle the truth"

Is there a study that compare people's brain before and after drugs use, and 10 years down the line?

I just have to know if those drugs cause any real damge and harm, and is it permanent 

[Henryk12]

On 12/19/2019 at 6:38 PM, Altostrata said:

Yes, I know what Dr. Breggin says. When something is "like" something else, that's not the same as being the same as something else.

 

There's a big difference between organic damage, where a physical part is broken or destroyed, as in traumatic brain injury or liver damage, and dysfunction in signaling.

 

Dr. Breggin is deliberately exaggerating the risk of psychiatric drugs because he wants to see them prescribed much less frequently. This has scared the pants off millions of people who decided to take the drugs without informing themselves about them first. Please do not take Dr. Breggin's warnings literally.

But it did damage the brain after all . Like you know mine is damaged 

[Altostrata]

When it comes to effects of psychiatric drugs, if you believe it, it will be so.

 

Henryk, you can believe you are permanently damaged if you want to, but we can't help you here. Your will to the worst case scenario is stronger than any online peer support. I'm not going to continue to argue with you about this. Perhaps you should find another group that believes as you do, you can reinforce each other's expectation of doom.

[Nivsch]

On 2/8/2015 at 10:04 PM, tanit said:

It is like they are completely in denial that there will be some changes that are irreversible(may be in few years thanks to medical progress)and that will need people engagement to find a solution. 

They may improve(some will FEEL like they were before ) but to say that everybody will  be 100% like before is a pure blatant lie.

I guess most need some lies to keep going but the future generation owes us the truth to not make our mistakes .

May be we need to stop being egoistic and self-centred and just expose those medications for what they truly are :poisons 

 

You can say it also about poison from the air and food. Maybe 0.1% of the damage from it is irreversible. Who knows?

 

On 2/8/2015 at 5:42 PM, tanit said:

if anything changes chromatin then it is permanent .

sorry to burst you bubble .That is what I was taught in med school and what anyone with rudimentary knowledge in biology will tell you .

 

Nature is million times smarter then biology proffessors. Nobody knows what the brain can and can't do and also what it can do to compensate about some 'permanent' damages like you mention even if we assume theoretically its true. It still like a drop in the ocean when it comes to the brain complexity.

[Altostrata]

Much is unknowable about how a psychotropic drug can affect any individual. Given the billions of people on the planet, you can't say something *always* happens or *never* happens when someone takes a psychotropic.

 

In general, we see people improve very slowly sometimes over many years. The dozens of people who have gotten neurological assessments, imaging, etc. rarely report any significant findings and when they do, it's from a neurophysiological condition that predates taking the drugs (and may have caused the symptoms for which people sought psychiatric treatment.

 

Taking psychiatric drugs and going off them can be a life-changing event because of its difficulty. The memory is something that will indeed be permanent.

 

Given the capabilities of the human mind, if you want to believe you are permanently and irreversibly damaged, it's very possible that will be your experience. You write your own script. Since your personal fate is unknown, why not presume that you will slowly recover, like so many do?

[Venlafckcine]

Hi,

 

From this study here (https://annals-general-psychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1744-859X-7-S1-S220) we can see that: "(...) cortisol and DHEAS may exert a regulatory effect on the 5-HT1A receptor (...)." 

This means that one could try to "re-regulate" his 5-HT1A receptors by "influencing" his adrenals.

Celery juice seems (!) to have a "regulatory effect" on the adrenals. My sleep improved drastically with it from almost 0 to 7-8 hours of sleep (during the night).

There is also folate available in celery. Folate is required for methylation. If it would re-alter gene expression - I don't know. In respect to sleep it works for me.  

Ven

[rilexapro]

For me my problems seem permanent. Somehow I was able to go off Lexapro at 30mg cold turkey before, sometimes due to forgetting to take it, and never had any issues going back on it. I am pretty sure at one point around 2017/2018 I went a month without taking my medication, and never had a problem going back on it.

 

Last year, basically all year, I was extremely anxious and paranoid. I stopped taking the Lexapro 30mg, mainly due to refill issues with my APRN who lived in another state (I would see her by webcam), but also because I was tired of Lexapro, because it wasn't working anyway. I went back on 10mg of Lexapro 3 months later, felt a dullness to the top of my head, started having mild bruxism, and then had basically any health problem you could think of;

Ear ringing, jaw clenching, memory loss, brain fog, cognitive slowness, low/no libido, emotional numbness, genital numbness, muscle twitching, nerve pain/tingling on the left side of my face and body, extreme fatigue, nausea, dizziness, breathing problems, dry/inflamed sinuses, bad long-term cough, high blood pressure, sleep apnea, throbbing headaches, brain making me manually breathe for hours, feeling of intense sickness (I felt very scared a few times last year because of how sick I felt), extreme warmness in the face, dry mouth, dry painful throbbing lips, watery mucus, and bloody mucus.

 

I'd love to find out something else caused this, but it happened right around the same time I tried going back on Lexapro. I don't get why or how this happened.

 

I have theorized that maybe I caused myself serotonin syndrome somehow (I was taking an over the counter 5-HTP supplement, about 200mg) but serotonin syndrome rarely leaves permanent problems unless it gets to the point where an ER visit is required, and I don't get how 10mg of Lexapro plus 5-HTP would cause serotonin syndrome, but 30mg of Lexapro, possibly taking the 5-HTP at the same time as that (I can't remember) wouldn't. 

 

It's been a year, the ear ringing still happens but not nearly as often, the bruxism was gone by November 2020, and the extreme fatigue doesn't happen as often. The memory loss, brain fog, low/no libido and emotions, nerve problems, manual breathing, and sinus issues are a daily occurrence now.

 

I would love to find out this wasn't caused by the Lexapro, I truly would. There are people who have been on drug cocktails a lot more risky than anything I was on. I find it so odd it would cause this much damage to me. I feel better than I did a year ago, but the low libido is new, along with random muscle twitching that happens every so often throughout the day.

[ChessieCat]

On 10/5/2021 at 3:45 AM, rilexapro said:

30mg of Lexapro

 

This is a very high dose of Lexapro. 

 

From the following quote:

 

If you are taking 5mg of Lexapro, it's not tiny, it's equivalent to 10-20mg Paxil or Celexa.

 

Please read the full quote below:

 

  

On 5/27/2011 at 12:16 PM, Altostrata said:

Special considerations
A significant characteristic of Lexapro is that milligram for milligram, it is much stronger than other SSRIs. Chemically, Lexapro is a variation of Celexa; the molecule was re-engineered to be patentable as Celexa's patent was about to expire. The streamlined molecule is a more potent SSRI, 2 to 4 times stronger than others. (Wikipedia has a good explanation of this at https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Escitalopram.)

However, many doctors are unaware that escitalopram is stronger than other SSRIs and dose it as though it were the same strength. Although the so-called usual starting dose of escitalopram, 10mg, is equivalent to 20mg-30mg or more of, for example, paroxetine (Paxil), your doctor may have moved you to an even higher dose. If you are taking 20mg of escitalopram, you are taking a hefty dose of an SSRI.

If you are taking 5mg of Lexapro, it's not tiny, it's equivalent to 10-20mg Paxil or Celexa.

Consequently, when you taper off escitalopram, you should be careful to decrease by small amounts, as each drop is magnified by escitalopram's extra potency. If you find withdrawal symptoms from a 10% decrease to be too difficult, after 3-4 weeks decrease by a smaller amount.

Cold-turkeying off Lexapro is not a good idea. It's like throwing your brain off a cliff.

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by ChessieCat

[rilexapro]

24 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

This is a very high dose of Lexapro. 

 

From the following quote:

 

If you are taking 5mg of Lexapro, it's not tiny, it's equivalent to 10-20mg Paxil or Celexa.

 

Please read the full quote below:

 

  

 

 

I know. It wasn't helping me. I was angry and anxious all the time. My APRN refused to change my meds. I couldn't taper, because she refused to give me a refill, because my webcam didn't work for the session, and then she just puts me back on 10mg of Lexapro. Maybe she thought it would stop my harsh withdrawal problem, I don't know.

 

Mentally, my memory and cognitive thinking is improving, but my nervous system still feels weird. I get nerve pain in areas, as well as vibrating around my body. Face numbness still happens too, as well as stiff neck pain on the left side. Chest pain too sometimes. 

 

The past few days have been optimistic. Mentally I am quicker and sharper than I was a few weeks ago. I still forget names and stuff like that, which brings me down again, but it's not as often. I'm also remembering things I forgot a long time ago. Hopefully that means my body is repairing itself slowly.

 

Do you think I can repair myself and get back to a somewhat normal state some day? I don't know why I was put on Lexapro over other things. I'm still trying to see if I have a lawsuit case.

[Altostrata]

On 6/13/2021 at 3:00 AM, Venlafckcine said:

This means that one could try to "re-regulate" his 5-HT1A receptors by "influencing" his adrenals.

 

Messing with your adrenals by any but the mildest means is a terrible idea. Ingesting celery juice is probably appropriately mild, if improbably "regulatory".

 

@rilexapro as explained to you in your Introductions topic, your long-time habit of taking your high 30mg dosage of escitalopram irregularly probably gave you intermittent withdrawal syndrome and set you up for even worse neurological instability after cold turkey.

 

For example:

 

On 10/4/2021 at 9:45 AM, rilexapro said:

Somehow I was able to go off Lexapro at 30mg cold turkey before, sometimes due to forgetting to take it....I am pretty sure at one point around 2017/2018 I went a month without taking my medication, and never had a problem going back on it.

 

Last year, basically all year, I was extremely anxious and paranoid. I stopped taking the Lexapro 30mg....also because I was tired of Lexapro, because it wasn't working anyway....

 

"Anxious and paranoid" would not be an unusual way of describing intermittent withdrawal for years finally leading to a fairly constant destabilized state or "sudden health problems possibly caused by Lexapro" (from your signature) in 2020.

 

It's pretty well documented 1) that skipping doses of SSRIs leads to withdrawal symptoms; 2) people who go on and off the drugs find they don't "work" anymore; 3) after going off an antidepressant, there's a fairly high rate of subsequent antidepressants not "working". This may lead to a diagnosis of "treatment-resistant depression" and ECT.

 

What you think might be serotonin syndrome is related to #3. After years of bouncing your nervous system around with inconsistent dosing followed by cold turkey, your nervous system was sensitized and rejected attempted reinstatement of 10mg escitalopram, possibly a kindling reaction.

 

Serotonin syndrome is a condition caused by too much serotonergic stimulation, usually from a combination of drugs. Your history does not show any evidence of serotonin syndrome.

 

54 minutes ago, rilexapro said:

Mentally, my memory and cognitive thinking is improving, but my nervous system still feels weird. I get nerve pain in areas, as well as vibrating around my body. Face numbness still happens too, as well as stiff neck pain on the left side. Chest pain too sometimes. 

 

The past few days have been optimistic. Mentally I am quicker and sharper than I was a few weeks ago. I still forget names and stuff like that, which brings me down again, but it's not as often. I'm also remembering things I forgot a long time ago. Hopefully that means my body is repairing itself slowly.

 

Since you've seen improvement now that you've stopped messing yourself up with taking a powerful drug irregularly, why would you think you would not continue to see improvement? Why are you posting in this extremely negative topic?

 

While your APRN might have been negligent, your own actions might have contributed to your current state. It's not a mystery that taking a long-term antidepressant irregularly can cause bad symptoms.

[rilexapro]

31 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Messing with your adrenals by any but the mildest means is a terrible idea. Ingesting celery juice is probably appropriately mild, if improbably "regulatory".

 

@rilexapro as explained to you in your Introductions topic, your long-time habit of taking your high 30mg dosage of escitalopram irregularly probably gave you intermittent withdrawal syndrome and set you up for even worse neurological instability after cold turkey.

 

For example:

 

 

"Anxious and paranoid" would not be an unusual way of describing intermittent withdrawal for years finally leading to a fairly constant destabilized state or "sudden health problems possibly caused by Lexapro" (from your signature) in 2020.

 

It's pretty well documented 1) that skipping doses of SSRIs leads to withdrawal symptoms; 2) people who go on and off the drugs find they don't "work" anymore; 3) after going off an antidepressant, there's a fairly high rate of subsequent antidepressants not "working". This may lead to a diagnosis of "treatment-resistant depression" and ECT.

 

What you think might be serotonin syndrome is related to #3. After years of bouncing your nervous system around with inconsistent dosing followed by cold turkey, your nervous system was sensitized and rejected attempted reinstatement of 10mg escitalopram, possibly a kindling reaction.

 

Serotonin syndrome is a condition caused by too much serotonergic stimulation, usually from a combination of drugs. Your history does not show any evidence of serotonin syndrome.

 

 

Since you've seen improvement now that you've stopped messing yourself up with taking a powerful drug irregularly, why would you think you would not continue to see improvement? Why are you posting in this extremely negative topic?

 

While your APRN might have been negligent, your own actions might have contributed to your current state. It's not a mystery that taking a long-term antidepressant irregularly can cause bad symptoms.

 

I didn't join this forum to be condescended to. I'm somebody who never caused trouble to people unless put in a situation where my mental state was bad enough to make me act erratic. I don't do drugs, abuse people, or whatever you can think that would be considered morally wrong. I have a lot of internal problems.

 

This year has been a huge struggle for me. I've had to deal with all my problems, on top of having to deal with my mother vomiting blood on me and almost dying as I was holding her, and then her dying of cirrhosis and cancer 3 months later, and on top of that, having to deal with financial instability because she mismanaged money, which still hasn't been truly resolved. While I was helping my mom on hospice, the left side of my face felt like it was burning, like how I've described my health symptoms on here. 

 

I have had intermittent periods of paranoia, depression, and severe OCD, since I was underage. Is it my fault my parents didn't get me proper mental health treatment, and instead hauled off their problems on people who treat me as a factory line subject? Is it my fault I told the APRN "Lexapro isn't working anymore" and they refused to take me off it? It is my fault when I tried going back on it, they abandoned me to deal with these problems while my mother was dying? My parents saw me having a breakdown and decided to call the police on me multiple times until they would haul me off to the ER for a psych hold that was useless, because I calmed down while I was there. 

 

I feel better mentally in terms of not having severe anger and anxiety problems since I've been off the Lexapro. I shouldn't have been on it, but what do I do when the person *wont* take me off of it, and my paranoia and anxiety's getting worse and worse? I'm not the power holder in this situation, the APRN was.

 

"It's not a mystery" people who deal with mental instability to the severity I have in their life, are usually are too busy feeling like they're going to die or feel like dying like I did to know what's going on with their meds. All I want is some encouragement that this isn't permanent. I made mistakes, which I do have deep regrets about, but you're acting like I deliberately did this to myself.

 

The APRN moved to Texas and refused to give me a refill unless my webcam worked. I had been set up with this APRN since I was about 19 years old, I'm 26 now. I was extremely depressed and anxiety ridden, my mental state wasn't a calm and analytical one. She's a person who deals with people who act erratic and unstable, she could have been more caring since I cried on the phone call when my webcam didn't work. She didn't care.

 

I'm not saying I'm perfect, because I'm not, but I came here for advice and a somewhat compassionate environment. I've been going to doctors, I've been trying to fix myself. I just want to know this isn't permanent. After a year I'm starting to mentally feel more competent. Nerves are still shot and numb and painful. Now I'm getting genital numbness too. New symptoms. I just want advice so I can move past this. I'm never taking psych meds again after all this, either. I've felt better in terms of emotions, ironically enough, since I've been off them. No longer as easily irritated or anxiety ridden.

 

On another note, I had been taking 5-HTP as a replacement for Lexapro. Probably dumb in retrospect, but I didn't feel anything different while taking it. That wouldn't cause serotonin syndrome? I've read 5-HTP plus Lexapro can cause that easily. 

 

Also, I don't know if my problems will truly go away. I could have permanent nerve damage. Who knows. Mentally I'm still not back to normal, just seeing slight improvement. I have no libido, or emotions when I laugh, cry, etc. That could be permanent. I don't know at all.