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The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization


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On 8/7/2020 at 1:56 PM, Edmunds said:

Thanks for the encouragement to @Amira123 and @Tweet. I would have replied sooner, but I did not see email notifications as I usually do.

 

It's interesting that I stopped taking Prozac once before, in 2015, with a very fast taper (psych endorsed) but did not experience much WD that I can recall. I must keep in mind, though, that I also switched over to Lexapro and then Cymbalta for fairly short periods, which probably blunted any WD.

 

I've been on the Prozac taper since January 2020 without any clear line of improvement, and then a worsening of distress and blurred vision symptoms during the past 5 weeks when I went down from 6 to 4 mg. I don't have pronounced waves and windows, though I have occasional days when I think an upward trend is starting--though doesn't.

 

I'm thinking that even though I have been off Effexor since May 2019 (way too fast WD) and got through 5 tough months of WD, my brain is still rebuilding from 3.5 years on Effexor and Wellbutrin. I would also like to ask how much of my various forms of distress might just be consequences of the fact that I was on ADs most of the time for the past 33 years. My brain is therefore working overtime.

 

 

I was basically cold turkey off the Prozac so for me it is not really possible to answer your question. As I am no longer experiencing much  now in the way of wd symptoms, many of which dealt with dread, depression, anxiety, rumination,  I would assume that most if not all of your symptoms are a result of withdrawal and will clear over time.

I am now learning skills for coping with leftover anxiety, but that is probably just what got me on meds in the first place.

Doing the hard work after all these years instead of pharma. Hope this helps. You can do this! If I can then anyone can!

This is the best of my recollection.

20 mg Prozac 3-4 days per week until May 2018.

Beginning May 15 I began to drop doses. 

I dropped 1 dose per week for the next 4 weeks.

It was not systematic at all. I don't have which days I took what.

so the week of May 13 I took 4 doses, which was pretty normal for me.

Then the week of May 20 I took 3 doses 20 mg.

The week of May 27 I took 3 doses 20 mg.

The 1st week in June l took 2 doses 20 mg.

The week of June 10, 2018 was my last dose 20 mg.

I had been on Prozac only. No other medications.

 

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ADMIN NOTE:    SEE ALSO:   Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms   Stabilising After a Reduction - What Does That Mean? Withdrawal Normal Description

It's all waves and windows, Nickie, so don't get discouraged if you feel bad again.   The windows get longer and the waves get weaker until, one day, you can say you feel normal.

First of all, I want to sort of celebrate that you can even write a post like this, squirrel, and thank Sur again for this board.   I have heard of people having long-lasting setbacks even very far

I too am tapering Fluoxitine (previously Prozac but chemist only fluoxitine now available

End 2013 on 20mg Prozac

then 2 Yr ago started slow taper 1 tab every other day (10mg a day) no wd

May 2020 changed to fluoxitine and as 10 mg tabs available at chemist changed to 1 10mg tab 6 days a week.

No wd for 6 weeks then tummy upsets wind then low mood anxiety and now severe fatigue.is this still wd? too scared to taper further.

Anyone else experienced sever fatigue ?

kind regards

Kate

 

 

 

August 2013 depression(A Deppressants prozac
20 mg prozac a day.
June 2017 started slow taper down to  15 mg by december2017.
Jan 2018 down to 10mg a day.
May 2020 chemist changed tabs from Prozac to Fluoxitine 10 mg tabs

I x 10mg tab 6 days a week Monday to Saturday 

= 8.57mg a day.

Symptoms stomach ache   bloating than fatigue then low mood and anxiety.

 

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Fatigue has been a continuing symptom for me since mid 2019. It’s mainly a mental fatigue, as if I were studying all night for an exam. I think our brains are working overtime to get stabilized. 

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA, raised to 2 capsules Mar 6, stopped Mar 13, resumed 1 capsule Mar 21; Magnesium Chelate 250; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; CBD oil 2 ml, March 21-29, 2021; L-theanine 400 mg for anxiety started April 14, 2021; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 9/6/2020 at 10:46 AM, Katygran said:

I too am tapering Fluoxitine (previously Prozac but chemist only fluoxitine now available

End 2013 on 20mg Prozac

then 2 Yr ago started slow taper 1 tab every other day (10mg a day) no wd

May 2020 changed to fluoxitine and as 10 mg tabs available at chemist changed to 1 10mg tab 6 days a week.

No wd for 6 weeks then tummy upsets wind then low mood anxiety and now severe fatigue.is this still wd? too scared to taper further.

Anyone else experienced sever fatigue ?

kind regards

Kate

 

 

 

Yes. Crushing fatigue. The Prozac gave me an energy level that is now gone. I am finding my own place of energy, and using that to the most. Efficiency is key. Naps are back. 

I feel like my body was run down to a frazzle from  years of being more active than it was meant to be due to fake Prozac energy.

I am being careful to mind my energy boundaries. Get plenty of rest. And accept that lower energy is okay.

This is the best of my recollection.

20 mg Prozac 3-4 days per week until May 2018.

Beginning May 15 I began to drop doses. 

I dropped 1 dose per week for the next 4 weeks.

It was not systematic at all. I don't have which days I took what.

so the week of May 13 I took 4 doses, which was pretty normal for me.

Then the week of May 20 I took 3 doses 20 mg.

The week of May 27 I took 3 doses 20 mg.

The 1st week in June l took 2 doses 20 mg.

The week of June 10, 2018 was my last dose 20 mg.

I had been on Prozac only. No other medications.

 

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Fatigue is an issue every day. I haven’t had significant improvements in the past couple of months, so I’m holding currently at 1.8 mgs of fluoxetine. I no doubt got into a rush allowing myself to go from 4 to 2 mgs which was of course a 50% drop. I avoid naps because if I do more than doze for a few minutes I feel worse when I wake up—more anxiety and depressed feeling. But thankfully I don’t have insomnia and sleep through the night except for bathroom trips. Regular sleep however does not much alleviate the mental fatigue as the day goes on. My brain is working hard to heal itself, isn’t it?

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA, raised to 2 capsules Mar 6, stopped Mar 13, resumed 1 capsule Mar 21; Magnesium Chelate 250; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; CBD oil 2 ml, March 21-29, 2021; L-theanine 400 mg for anxiety started April 14, 2021; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 12/05/2013 at 22:37, Altostrata said:

Plus proche de la normale tout le temps. Mais j'ai 62 ans, et maintenant je dois composer avec le vieillissement ...

and now Alostrata you have 69 years? 

are you a man or a woman? (just for curiousity, i was wondering)

(i am french)

1998 prazépam, citalopram /1999 paroxetine prazepam /2000 paroxétine /2001venafaxine, alprazolam, clomipramine * 2002 (dont remember)/2003 clomipramine, alprazolam /2004 clomipramine /2005 alprazolam /2006(dont remember) * 2007citalopram, alprazolam, prazépam, venlafaxine /2008(dont remember) /2009 venlafaxine /2010 venlafaxine *All precedent withdrawal were very fast. I tried many times to stop but didn't know what happened. *2011 mirtazapine (22,5 mg) , norset , risperdal (cold turkey for risperdal and norset, analysis by doctor say that my body does not support and i was in danger) /2012 mirtazapine / 2013 mirtazapine  *october 2014 mirtazapine (15mg) - putting down slowly.   *when i was good for one month i  down 1ml. (1ml of 100ml of water in which there was 1 pill of 15mg of mirtazapine. At the end i remove 1ml of 50ml of water but with 0,5 pill it does the same concentration.) (i down more like "how i feel, because at the beginning i had a calendar tapping 10% every 15 days and i was really bad, so i decided to see one month and after if i was trust in my body, i remove 10% of the dose at the beginning; and at the end i remove 1ml (when the 10% was lower than 1ml). It was more how i feel. (it is just the last 1 ml that i remove rapidly because i think i was attached mentally and i need to break. and 1ml of 50ml of 15/2mg is just 1ml correspond to 0.15mg. ).  -juillet 2017 stop all. 

nov 2017 tetany and gastritis. I found "euphytose", "spasmine", "phyto-stress" from Govital(the more efficient if crisis because more concentrated)  efficient. If very bad i take valerian extract 1000mg (stop crisis). I have iron deficiency and osteoporosis (36 years old) Bone like a 80 years old.  2020: Often crisis at sunset. (spasmophilia, tetany, tremor, contractions, internal vibration ), insomnia, fundal gastritis and erythematous antral gastritis. hypotension low blood pressure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, emilie said:

are you a man or a woman?

 

Alto is a female.  This is her topic and there are a couple of videos too:  about-altostrata-withdrawal-syndrome-since-2004

 

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 27 Mar 2021:  Pristiq 0.295 mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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7 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Alto is a female.  This is her topic and there are a couple of videos too:  about-altostrata-withdrawal-syndrome-since-2004

 

 

 

thanks, i will see.

(i am french)

1998 prazépam, citalopram /1999 paroxetine prazepam /2000 paroxétine /2001venafaxine, alprazolam, clomipramine * 2002 (dont remember)/2003 clomipramine, alprazolam /2004 clomipramine /2005 alprazolam /2006(dont remember) * 2007citalopram, alprazolam, prazépam, venlafaxine /2008(dont remember) /2009 venlafaxine /2010 venlafaxine *All precedent withdrawal were very fast. I tried many times to stop but didn't know what happened. *2011 mirtazapine (22,5 mg) , norset , risperdal (cold turkey for risperdal and norset, analysis by doctor say that my body does not support and i was in danger) /2012 mirtazapine / 2013 mirtazapine  *october 2014 mirtazapine (15mg) - putting down slowly.   *when i was good for one month i  down 1ml. (1ml of 100ml of water in which there was 1 pill of 15mg of mirtazapine. At the end i remove 1ml of 50ml of water but with 0,5 pill it does the same concentration.) (i down more like "how i feel, because at the beginning i had a calendar tapping 10% every 15 days and i was really bad, so i decided to see one month and after if i was trust in my body, i remove 10% of the dose at the beginning; and at the end i remove 1ml (when the 10% was lower than 1ml). It was more how i feel. (it is just the last 1 ml that i remove rapidly because i think i was attached mentally and i need to break. and 1ml of 50ml of 15/2mg is just 1ml correspond to 0.15mg. ).  -juillet 2017 stop all. 

nov 2017 tetany and gastritis. I found "euphytose", "spasmine", "phyto-stress" from Govital(the more efficient if crisis because more concentrated)  efficient. If very bad i take valerian extract 1000mg (stop crisis). I have iron deficiency and osteoporosis (36 years old) Bone like a 80 years old.  2020: Often crisis at sunset. (spasmophilia, tetany, tremor, contractions, internal vibration ), insomnia, fundal gastritis and erythematous antral gastritis. hypotension low blood pressure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
RickyIsHealing

do windows and waves carry on once your off the medication , because sometimes i feel like im making progress , then i get put 4 steps back again :(

Unsure of dates to be honest 
but i was on 15mg mirtazapine for 4 weeks.
then went onto 30mg mirtazapine  for 3 days.
i stopped taking altogether for 3 days after the 3 days of 30mg.
read to go back on 15mg mirtazapine for 7 days to stabilize.
then onto 7.5mg mirtazapine for 7 days.
then onto 3.5mg mirtazapine for 7 days. 

been of since 12/11/2020.

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Yes because your brain is still making adjustments to regain homeostasis.  See:

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 27 Mar 2021:  Pristiq 0.295 mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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  • 2 weeks later...

When do you typically start to see the windows and waves part? All I have are horrible symptoms that won’t ease up and make me wish I was never born...what if I never get any good days to keep me sane?

Approx. 2010 - 2015 sertraline and Xanax (cannot remember doses)
2015 - 2020  CT’d sertraline/Xanax combo and went on fluoxetine (80mg) and Clonazepam (.5mg as needed) at Psych’s advice

September 2020 - bupropion (300mg) - took only 3 doses before getting horrible tinnitus and stopping CT

Week of 20th October 2020 - took 80mg Monday, 40 Tuesday, 20 Wednesday, nothing Thursday, and final 20 Friday (on doctor advice)

December 24 2020 - January 3 2021 - Reinstated Fluoxetine at 10mg (Dec 24th). Too much, tapered down to 5mg (Dec 28). Too much, tapered down to 2.5mg (Dec 31st). Still too much, tapered down to my current 1.25mg (Jan 3 2021).
Currently taking 2mg of Clonazepam. One at night and one in the morning. Fluoxetine (1.25mg) at night. Fish Oil (360mg 3x daily) and Magnesium (122mg a pill, 2 in the afternoon, 1 at night plus another 100mg in hearing sups for my tinnitus)

Also a bunch of other supplements recommended by my ENT in case some of my symptoms are not withdrawal related, so won’t list them here. As well as supplements to treat my tinnitus which is a toxic reaction symptom I received by being proscribed Bupropion while still on Prozac.

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@NosummerI'm not sure when you will start to see some windows.  Being as how you stopped sertraline and Xanax cold turkey your brain is in shock.  Your psych gave you bad advice.  Very slowly tapering these drugs is the way to go.  To give you hope, there are people on here that were heavily polydrugged (taking many psych meds at once), who have recovered.  It takes time.  Read some of the success stories, this will give you hope.  It can be done.  I'm praying for you.  Hang in there. 

***Please note this is not medical advice.  Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one.

Lexapro   Started Apr 15 02 - 10 mg;  Apr 2 20  0.18 mg; Jul 16  0.17 mg, Aug 23  0.16 mg, Oct 7  0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10 

Trazodone.  used 50 mg once every 4-7 days for sleep, stopped

Xanax. used 0.5 mg once every 4-7 days for sleep, stopped

Benadryl 50 mg, Ibuprofen 800 mg, or Tylenol 1000 mg

other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg

suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, multivitamin, vit C, vit E, calcium

suppl PM: magnesium 350 mg, GABA 750 mg, Estroven, melatonin 3 mg, calcium

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@getofflex Thank you so much for the hope.

Approx. 2010 - 2015 sertraline and Xanax (cannot remember doses)
2015 - 2020  CT’d sertraline/Xanax combo and went on fluoxetine (80mg) and Clonazepam (.5mg as needed) at Psych’s advice

September 2020 - bupropion (300mg) - took only 3 doses before getting horrible tinnitus and stopping CT

Week of 20th October 2020 - took 80mg Monday, 40 Tuesday, 20 Wednesday, nothing Thursday, and final 20 Friday (on doctor advice)

December 24 2020 - January 3 2021 - Reinstated Fluoxetine at 10mg (Dec 24th). Too much, tapered down to 5mg (Dec 28). Too much, tapered down to 2.5mg (Dec 31st). Still too much, tapered down to my current 1.25mg (Jan 3 2021).
Currently taking 2mg of Clonazepam. One at night and one in the morning. Fluoxetine (1.25mg) at night. Fish Oil (360mg 3x daily) and Magnesium (122mg a pill, 2 in the afternoon, 1 at night plus another 100mg in hearing sups for my tinnitus)

Also a bunch of other supplements recommended by my ENT in case some of my symptoms are not withdrawal related, so won’t list them here. As well as supplements to treat my tinnitus which is a toxic reaction symptom I received by being proscribed Bupropion while still on Prozac.

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Does anyone get a wave just by taking a medication for another condition? I took an anticonvulsant for a chronic nerve issue and I’m all sorts of messed up 10 days out. 

2005- 2008: Lorazepam (max dose- 1 MG daily)

2008- 2016: Lexapro (max dose-10 MG daily)

January 2017- March 2017- Pristiq (max dose- 100 MG daily)

April 2017- June 2017: Trintellix (max dose- 10 MG)

July 2017- October 2017:  Lexapro (max dose-10 MG daily)

November 2017- April 2018- Luvox (max dose- 100 MG)

May 2018- Zoloft (max dose- 18.75)

5/28/18- 3 MG Lexapro, 6/3/18- 3 MG Lexapro, 6/7/18- 3.5 MG Lexapro, 6/13/18- 4 MG Lexapro, 6/21/18- 4.5 MG Lexapro, 6/28/18- Present- 4 MG Lexapro  

 

"The Journey is The Reward"

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Very common. I took pain med and antibiotic for a kidney stone and I'm back to square one. I am 52 months out and I was 75-80% healed .

 

December 2014 - Lexapro 20 mg

August 2016 Med free (6 week taper)

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@Alice1- thanks and I hope you feel better! How long has that lasted?

2005- 2008: Lorazepam (max dose- 1 MG daily)

2008- 2016: Lexapro (max dose-10 MG daily)

January 2017- March 2017- Pristiq (max dose- 100 MG daily)

April 2017- June 2017: Trintellix (max dose- 10 MG)

July 2017- October 2017:  Lexapro (max dose-10 MG daily)

November 2017- April 2018- Luvox (max dose- 100 MG)

May 2018- Zoloft (max dose- 18.75)

5/28/18- 3 MG Lexapro, 6/3/18- 3 MG Lexapro, 6/7/18- 3.5 MG Lexapro, 6/13/18- 4 MG Lexapro, 6/21/18- 4.5 MG Lexapro, 6/28/18- Present- 4 MG Lexapro  

 

"The Journey is The Reward"

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ryan1982

Do waves sometimes just feel different? I’m on year 4 of my journey and I’m pretty used to the waves that I get at this point. I just typically feel bad and feel like my equilibrium is off. However, I had an adverse reaction to a medication a couple weeks ago and since then, my anxiety and shortness of breath has been absolutely off the charts. That’s just not normal for me. I’m trying not dwell on it but it’s been tough. Any thoughts?

2005- 2008: Lorazepam (max dose- 1 MG daily)

2008- 2016: Lexapro (max dose-10 MG daily)

January 2017- March 2017- Pristiq (max dose- 100 MG daily)

April 2017- June 2017: Trintellix (max dose- 10 MG)

July 2017- October 2017:  Lexapro (max dose-10 MG daily)

November 2017- April 2018- Luvox (max dose- 100 MG)

May 2018- Zoloft (max dose- 18.75)

5/28/18- 3 MG Lexapro, 6/3/18- 3 MG Lexapro, 6/7/18- 3.5 MG Lexapro, 6/13/18- 4 MG Lexapro, 6/21/18- 4.5 MG Lexapro, 6/28/18- Present- 4 MG Lexapro  

 

"The Journey is The Reward"

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getofflex
10 hours ago, ryan1982 said:

Do waves sometimes just feel different? I’m on year 4 of my journey and I’m pretty used to the waves that I get at this point. I just typically feel bad and feel like my equilibrium is off. However, I had an adverse reaction to a medication a couple weeks ago and since then, my anxiety and shortness of breath has been absolutely off the charts. That’s just not normal for me. I’m trying not dwell on it but it’s been tough. Any thoughts?

My heart goes out to you. I'm praying for you.  It sounds very painful.  My thought is acceptance.  Go to YouTube and look up Claire Weekes anxiety.  She has some great stuff on how to decrease anxiety.  She says that often we become anxious about being anxious, so this just causes a downward spiral of worsening anxiety.  I deal with mine by telling myself over and over "this, too, shall pass".  And it will.  It helps me to read the success stories of people who have been through this, but eventually recovered. I know how discouraging it can be to have a setback like this.  Jennifer 

***Please note this is not medical advice.  Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one.

Lexapro   Started Apr 15 02 - 10 mg;  Apr 2 20  0.18 mg; Jul 16  0.17 mg, Aug 23  0.16 mg, Oct 7  0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10 

Trazodone.  used 50 mg once every 4-7 days for sleep, stopped

Xanax. used 0.5 mg once every 4-7 days for sleep, stopped

Benadryl 50 mg, Ibuprofen 800 mg, or Tylenol 1000 mg

other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg

suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, multivitamin, vit C, vit E, calcium

suppl PM: magnesium 350 mg, GABA 750 mg, Estroven, melatonin 3 mg, calcium

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ryan1982

Thanks so much, @getofflex. So kind of you to take the time to comment on my dilemma.

 

I’m keeping everything consistent and stable but can’t seem to get a handle on the anxiety. I have a stressful job and have to let some people go in the next few weeks so I’m sure that’s part of it. 
 

I’ve been meaning to check out Claire Weeks so thanks for the reminder. 
 

Praying and following you too! You’re ahead of me on my Lexapro taper (I’m at 4 MG) and excited to see us both heal!

2005- 2008: Lorazepam (max dose- 1 MG daily)

2008- 2016: Lexapro (max dose-10 MG daily)

January 2017- March 2017- Pristiq (max dose- 100 MG daily)

April 2017- June 2017: Trintellix (max dose- 10 MG)

July 2017- October 2017:  Lexapro (max dose-10 MG daily)

November 2017- April 2018- Luvox (max dose- 100 MG)

May 2018- Zoloft (max dose- 18.75)

5/28/18- 3 MG Lexapro, 6/3/18- 3 MG Lexapro, 6/7/18- 3.5 MG Lexapro, 6/13/18- 4 MG Lexapro, 6/21/18- 4.5 MG Lexapro, 6/28/18- Present- 4 MG Lexapro  

 

"The Journey is The Reward"

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getofflex
On 1/2/2021 at 12:00 PM, ryan1982 said:

Thanks so much, @getofflex. So kind of you to take the time to comment on my dilemma.

 

I’m keeping everything consistent and stable but can’t seem to get a handle on the anxiety. I have a stressful job and have to let some people go in the next few weeks so I’m sure that’s part of it. 
 

I’ve been meaning to check out Claire Weeks so thanks for the reminder. 
 

Praying and following you too! You’re ahead of me on my Lexapro taper (I’m at 4 MG) and excited to see us both heal!

Great for you for keeping things consistent and stable!  I have the 3 S's on my fridge - keep it simple, stable, slow.  Please do definitely check out Claire Weekes.  I did a year ago, and am doing it again.  She is wonderful for helping with anxiety.  I have a lot of anxiety too.  I can't blame you for being anxious about having to let people go.  I have had to eliminate several toxic "friends" from my life in the past year or so, and there is yet another one I may have to eliminate.  I was on the Lexapro for 18 years, and it made me lazy and passive, because I was numbed out.  Now that I have emotions, they are motivators for making me more proactive and better at dealing with life, and other people.  But, it's really tough!  My nervous system is so sensitive.  I didn't get but about 2-3 hours sleep last night, because I'm stressed about this latest toxic person I need to cut out of my life.  Dealing with any kind of stress seems to put me into a wave.  I've been in an almost continuous wave since Thanksgiving due to stress of holidays, my son having COVID19 while away at college for the first year, and now this.  Jennifer

***Please note this is not medical advice.  Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one.

Lexapro   Started Apr 15 02 - 10 mg;  Apr 2 20  0.18 mg; Jul 16  0.17 mg, Aug 23  0.16 mg, Oct 7  0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10 

Trazodone.  used 50 mg once every 4-7 days for sleep, stopped

Xanax. used 0.5 mg once every 4-7 days for sleep, stopped

Benadryl 50 mg, Ibuprofen 800 mg, or Tylenol 1000 mg

other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg

suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, multivitamin, vit C, vit E, calcium

suppl PM: magnesium 350 mg, GABA 750 mg, Estroven, melatonin 3 mg, calcium

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Carolina

 

 I have read and  experienced the terrible negative emotions and symptoms one feels during waves and, then, the return to WD normal or baseline in WD. But I was wondering if during withdrawal or PAWS one also gets a glimmer of the return or the positive emotions as well (such as true joy) ? Even if it is a brief instant? (the emotions I miss and no longer wish to be numb too). 

Current ( 3/7/2021):

Medications: 20 mg Lexapro. 10 mg remeron

Supplements: multivitamin, b-complex, fish oil, selenium, probiotic, and quercetin. 

Taper: 10% monthly decreases of remeron (33% complete) 

Med History:

Lexapro ( 20mg) 2013-current 

Remeron (15 mg) 12/2020

 

 

 

 

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Carolina

Has anyone experienced the windows and waves eventually ending? Or is it a chronic condition that one learns to manage? 

Current ( 3/7/2021):

Medications: 20 mg Lexapro. 10 mg remeron

Supplements: multivitamin, b-complex, fish oil, selenium, probiotic, and quercetin. 

Taper: 10% monthly decreases of remeron (33% complete) 

Med History:

Lexapro ( 20mg) 2013-current 

Remeron (15 mg) 12/2020

 

 

 

 

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59 minutes ago, Carolina said:

Has anyone experienced the windows and waves eventually ending? Or is it a chronic condition that one learns to manage? 

Hi,

If I taper a small dose (up to 7%), my withdrawal symptoms usually last 14-20 days
Symptoms usually start in 3-5 days.
But they still end.my experience

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

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1 hour ago, Carolina said:

Has anyone experienced the windows and waves eventually ending? Or is it a chronic condition that one learns to manage? 

I forgot to add that the wave usually lasts for me 7-12 days (occurs even if I do not reduce the dose)

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

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Carolina

Hi Estman,

 

thank you for your reply! Sorry, I meant to ask if the pattern eventually stops indefinitely. Meaning our brains eventually stabilize or is it a chronic wave-window pattern we must learn to live with because of the effects antidepressants caused? 

Current ( 3/7/2021):

Medications: 20 mg Lexapro. 10 mg remeron

Supplements: multivitamin, b-complex, fish oil, selenium, probiotic, and quercetin. 

Taper: 10% monthly decreases of remeron (33% complete) 

Med History:

Lexapro ( 20mg) 2013-current 

Remeron (15 mg) 12/2020

 

 

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
persistente
On 1/5/2021 at 1:56 PM, Carolina said:

Has anyone experienced the windows and waves eventually ending? Or is it a chronic condition that one learns to manage? 

i have been having windows and waves pattern since i have stopped my meds, 40 months ago

i used to have horrible waves regularly, in the first year of wd i do not know how did i even make it through them, i guess day after day

 

then they became less intense, then managable, then i thought i was done with a roller couster, then i had a horrible wave again, then i had few small waves....

lately i did not have any waves, few bad days like before wd, not real waves...i think i might be done...

 

i think that waves end for most of the people, unfortunately it takes very long time 

 

3/2012 - sertralin 50 mg, no major side effects

1/2014 - ct sertralin 50 mg (tappered 3 weeks as doctor ordered)

7/2014 - back to sertalin 50 mg, no issues

4/2016 - ct sertralin 50 mg (tappered 3 weeks, my decision)

12/2016 - back to sertalin, major side effects from the first pill and the begginning of hell

2/2017 - mirtazepine 15 mg added for insomnia

6/2017 - stopped sertralin (2 months tapper)

9/2017 - stopped mirtazepine (3 weeks taper)

waves and windows

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15 minutes ago, persistente said:

i have been having windows and waves pattern since i have stopped my meds, 40 months ago

i used to have horrible waves regularly, in the first year of wd i do not know how did i even make it through them, i guess day after day

 

then they became less intense, then managable, then i thought i was done with a roller couster, then i had a horrible wave again, then i had few small waves....

lately i did not have any waves, few bad days like before wd, not real waves...i think i might be done...

 

i think that waves end for most of the people, unfortunately it takes very long time 

 

Yep, that would be me.  Mine stopped after a few years.  Im still VERY slowly cutting down every 8 months, but feel no on and off issues.  Im down to 40mg from 75.

On Venlafaxine XR 75mg > 20 years, because a general MD decided to try these new "calming pills" taken from his sample closet because my pulse was a little high since I get nervous going to the doctor.

 

June 2010 - Cold turkey

September 2010 - Sudden onset of EXTREME anxiety, constant terror and fear that got marginally better at night.  I had no idea what or why this was; had no idea it was the quitting of Effexor.  (I was never in my life even remotely like this)

December 2010 - reinstated 75mgs Effexor XR, felt no better months later

January 2011 - Began 5% taper every month

2012 - Anxiety began improving by had many windows and waves

January 2014 - Fell back into sudden onset of same anxiety, fear as in 2010; realized I was tapering too quickly.  I was not allowing withdrawal effects to dissipate before another taper.  Began 2% taper every 6 to 8 months

2016 - Fear, anxiety began to wane

2017, 18 & 19 - Constant Fear & anxiety stopped, just occasional minor bouts that lasted 3 days or so

December 2020 - Now at ~40mgs Effexor XR, 2.5mgs Crestor (Cutting 5mg pill in half due to sudden palpitations or PVCs)

 
 
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I am exactly two years of a C/T withdrawal of Mirtazapine, and have been tracking my symptoms very closely over the last two years. I am beginning to realize that there is no real pattern in withdrawal and its constantly changing over time.

 

My two main patterns  are - 

 

Pattern 1. Waking early (4:30 on the dot most days when I go to bed before 12) - has me waking up with anxiety 

Pattern 2. Sleeping late (2-4AM) due to - one or more of thermoregulation (chills/flushing), tactile hypersensitivity (hot/cold feet, body, head), GI flare-ups (burping, gas, multiple BMs, visceral hypersensitivity), and occcasional tired/wired feeling with adrenaline rushes. 

 

My daytime symptoms are usually manageable - some lightheadedness, blurry vision, occasional anxiety surges, and some GI flares. I am mostly symptom free between 4PM-10PM.

 

My biggest challenge is dealing with the rapidly shifting pattern of symptoms, and I am hoping that others who have had a similar experience can provide some advice/feedback.

 

I could have pattern 1 for a few days or weeks, and the body settles down into a routine and the symptoms slowly settle down, only for some trigger (usually a change in weather - a warm spell/cold front), that throws the body into disarray, and now it has to readjust to the change and goes into pattern 2, only for the weather to switch back, and the whole cycle restarts. 

 

As a result, I have become extremely sensitive to any change, and my flight/fight mode is on full blast lest it destabilizes my healing.   I understand I can't do much about the weather or season changes, and food is about the only aspect that I can control, but it seems weather/season changes have a very big effect on my symptoms, and I would be grateful for any tips/suggestions that helps me cope with the symptoms.  

 

Fortunately, it takes me a few hours to calm down and deal with the change, instead of days in early withdrawal, but the body still takes a few days to catch up, and it feels like it is always playing catch up.  Is this typical to experience two years into withdrawal? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Administrator
Altostrata

@tsranga please read this topic from the beginning.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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9 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

@tsranga please read this topic from the beginning.

I did.. I wasn't able to decipher the answer to my question about constantly changing patterns daily, rather than a distinct wave and window pattern. 

 

At least in my case, the last free months have seen a diurnal pattern - morning anxiety and symptom free evenings. Could this be categorized as wave/window?

 

Or does the fact that the last three days I have seen no daytime anxiety indicate a window, given that it is a change from the typical pattern?

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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  • Administrator
Altostrata

Please read 

 

 

 

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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53 minutes ago, tsranga said:

I did.. I wasn't able to decipher the answer to my question about constantly changing patterns daily, rather than a distinct wave and window pattern. 

 

At least in my case, the last free months have seen a diurnal pattern - morning anxiety and symptom free evenings. Could this be categorized as wave/window?

 

Or does the fact that the last three days I have seen no daytime anxiety indicate a window, given that it is a change from the typical pattern?

As you will notice from the thread there are many different patterns - daily, monthly, random, seasonal etc. It doesn't really matter what you call it, the idea is that there is suffering and relief and the times of relief usually increase in duration as time goes by though not everyone sees the same pattern - some will have intense symptoms for a while and only at the end will see relief. The truth is though it gets better.

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg ,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months (don't remember dates), trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up), occasionally did this in difficult times 

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax/day, then 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, April  14 , 2019 - citalopram 1.8 mg (liquid), May 8, 2019 - citalopram 1.6 mg (liquid),  July 27, 2019 - citalopram 1.5 mg (liquid),  August 15, 2019 - citalopram 1.35 (liquid)

 

 supplements:  melatonin 1 mg  

 

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1 hour ago, Onmyway said:

The truth is though it gets better.

Isn't that what we all hope for? Thanks

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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On 2/18/2021 at 3:03 AM, tsranga said:

Isn't that what we all hope for? Thanks

It's hard to believe in the middle of the worst of it. It seems like it will never end. But it does get better. We just have to keep walking through.

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg ,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months (don't remember dates), trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up), occasionally did this in difficult times 

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax/day, then 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, April  14 , 2019 - citalopram 1.8 mg (liquid), May 8, 2019 - citalopram 1.6 mg (liquid),  July 27, 2019 - citalopram 1.5 mg (liquid),  August 15, 2019 - citalopram 1.35 (liquid)

 

 supplements:  melatonin 1 mg  

 

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