The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

[Rusty1]

On 4/29/2021 at 9:51 AM, Phoenixmama said:

Are there any withdraw symptoms that could mean your close to the end of withdraw????

Withdrawal is slow and non-linear.  Keep a journal of your symptoms and how you are feeling.  What you should find as you heal is that over time symptoms slowly get better and the window and waves pattern, the windows get longer and the waves get shorter.  Unfortunately negative symptoms may feel like they can get turned on like a light switch, but positives are slow and gradual.  A journal can help you keep track of the small successes you see over time that may not be as easy to spot when caught up in the moment.

It may not feel like it, but if we are taking care of ourselves every day can be a day towards more healing.

[Phoenixmama]

Thank you , I will surely do that 🙏🏼

[siderale]

Is it common to get hit by a wave, but with all new symptoms compared to the previous waves, like months later? As in, I definitely think I am in a wave these past days (the loss of appetite is a very easy symptom for me to recognise), but there is a "new" symptom that is dizziness/feeling like I'm about to pass out, although I sleep fairly well, eat even if it's not much, and my blood pressure is normal. I never had dizziness/vertigo since I stopped my antidepressants.

 

It tends to scare me a lot as I initially took antidepressants for severe hypochondria! But I did blood checks last month for something unrelated and they were okay, so I try not to worry too much. I just can't find any information on all "new and improved" (lol) symptoms after X months and X waves.

[Estman]

On 1/31/2021 at 2:59 AM, tsranga said:

I am exactly two years of a C/T withdrawal of Mirtazapine, and have been tracking my symptoms very closely over the last two years. I am beginning to realize that there is no real pattern in withdrawal and its constantly changing over time.

 

My two main patterns  are - 

 

Pattern 1. Waking early (4:30 on the dot most days when I go to bed before 12) - has me waking up with anxiety 

Pattern 2. Sleeping late (2-4AM) due to - one or more of thermoregulation (chills/flushing), tactile hypersensitivity (hot/cold feet, body, head), GI flare-ups (burping, gas, multiple BMs, visceral hypersensitivity), and occcasional tired/wired feeling with adrenaline rushes. 

 

My daytime symptoms are usually manageable - some lightheadedness, blurry vision, occasional anxiety surges, and some GI flares. I am mostly symptom free between 4PM-10PM.

 

My biggest challenge is dealing with the rapidly shifting pattern of symptoms, and I am hoping that others who have had a similar experience can provide some advice/feedback.

 

I could have pattern 1 for a few days or weeks, and the body settles down into a routine and the symptoms slowly settle down, only for some trigger (usually a change in weather - a warm spell/cold front), that throws the body into disarray, and now it has to readjust to the change and goes into pattern 2, only for the weather to switch back, and the whole cycle restarts. 

 

As a result, I have become extremely sensitive to any change, and my flight/fight mode is on full blast lest it destabilizes my healing.   I understand I can't do much about the weather or season changes, and food is about the only aspect that I can control, but it seems weather/season changes have a very big effect on my symptoms, and I would be grateful for any tips/suggestions that helps me cope with the symptoms.  

 

Fortunately, it takes me a few hours to calm down and deal with the change, instead of days in early withdrawal, but the body still takes a few days to catch up, and it feels like it is always playing catch up.  Is this typical to experience two years into withdrawal? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also have a big wave in recent days: there is depression, despair, a fight-escape reaction, sadness and also hopelessness
Otherwise I am fine and I have no major problems
In addition, I twisted my ankle
At the same time, we have had climate change
The weather is very warm for the last 2-3 days.
As you mentioned, I also have a wave in warm weather
Perhaps also affected by blood pressure, was very anxious
I last reduced my dose 14 days ago and so far it has been more or less tolerated

[tiredtess]

I am a year off Venlafaxine and in recent weeks have been experiencing feelings off cold despite the "warmer" weather. Its not just a bit chilly and put on another layer it really is cod from the core. I also have somewhat overwhelming feelings of sadness and fear.

tt

 

Multiple antidepressants 30+ years 

[Katy398]

You know @tiredtessif it is any comfort this is absolutely ‘normal’ (for withdrawal that is!).

I’m so sorry you are going through this but slowly and surely the symptoms change and you finally will heal. Please take care and look after yourself, wrap up warm and label your symptoms as withdrawal. Once I finally managed to label all my horrible symptoms as withdrawal, once I managed to focus on accepting them as temporary and once I managed holding back the fear I had of them, life did become easier. For me this was not an easy skill to  develop and they didn’t go away but I didn’t add extra ‘stuff’ to them fear/anger/terror etc. This certainly helps. 

You can do this, ask for help whenever you need it. You’re not alone. 

[tiredtess]

Thank you Katy398 you are very kind. I do feel horribly alone with it all. I don't know whether the lockdowns we have had here (UK) have added to it all. I know losing my sister in law two days before Christmas and then a cousin in January have affected me. There are so many who are going or have been through so much worse that asking for any sort of help seems somewhat selfish. What is withdrawal and what is me just not coping and tired.

tt

 

Multiple antidepressants 30+ years + ECT

 

 

[Katy398]

Oh TT,

I’mso sorry to hear about your sister in-laws and your cousin. Withdrawal is so hard to manage anyway but add in grief I just can’t imagine. Hang on in there you will get through this slowly I know but definitely surely. 

[siderale]

15 hours ago, tiredtess said:

There are so many who are going or have been through so much worse that asking for any sort of help seems somewhat selfish. What is withdrawal and what is me just not coping and tired.

There will always be someone going through worse: this doesn't make you less worthy of getting help. Everyone deserves help, regardless of how "well" they "should" be coping, all of this is very subjective. Everyone's different, and some people get help for "less" and they aren't less worthy of it either. You deserve every bit of the help you need.

Like Katy said, grief and withdrawal are separate things but mixed together it must be so hard. I hope you're surrounded and that one day you can get some help to help you cope with everything. Take care of you TT ♥

[getofflex]

@tiredtessI find myself asking the same question.  The other day I said on my thread that I didn't know what was WD and what was PTSD.  So, I just do my best to cope with the symptoms, whatever their source may be.  Now, I'm trying out TRE to help deal with trauma. 

[Yesyes123]

On 5/16/2021 at 8:13 PM, getofflex said:

So, I just do my best to cope with the symptoms, whatever their source may be.

 

This is brilliant.

[Yesyes123]

How do you guys deal with the fact doctors are simply clueless about what these drugs really are, how they work, what they actually do to people and especially their possible dangers? Do you just avoid thinking about it?

 

It's not even just that they're clueless - they live in a separate reality where these drugs are "harmless" and always help everyone with little to no problems whatsoever - everything in their lives points to that… I mean,

 

Their colleagues, their teachers at university, their entire literature, the drug companies, the fact these drugs are extremely common and used/ seen as if they're no big deal by most people… everything and everyone they trust tells them to keep drugging people, it's good, you're helping them.

 

Can you really blame them? Yes and no, I think. I mean, I keep thinking that if I was a doctor I would absolutely figure it out instantly and would learn the truth about these drugs. But would I really? Maybe I would have turned into one of those doctors who totally believe these drugs are fixing chemical imbalances...

 

This **** makes me suicidal sometimes. It's just so insanely atrocious and it seems unreal - a dark, twisted horror story. Sometimes I just can't believe the world I lived in and was so happy on is plagued by this demon named psychiatry. People are being told they have brain diseases that aren't real and drugged for them. Innocent, completely normal and healthy people. It's truly sickening.

 

I'm not even sure what's worse… the withdrawal symptoms or the realization that all this insane and terrible sh*t is actually real and it's happening everyday to countless people all around the world. And I'm one of them. It makes me sick to think I put that pill in my mouth everyday for years. 

 

I'm thankful to be on my way out of this and I really want to make a huge difference on this scandal somehow. 

[persistente]

You learned the truth early enough to save yourself and to share your experience.

 

Taper. Taper when you are ready. As slow as possible. For years. That is the most important lesson.

 

I was feeling and thinking the same as you few years ago when I finaly learned the truth.

 

I tried to share it with few doctors and close friends but I realized that those without the personal experience of wd can hardly undrestand what is happening. In the meantime, withdrawall took away my strenght and capability to do anything. If I survive I might try again. 

[AdviceNeeded]

Can I really blame them? 
 

Yes, wholeheartedly.

[Yesyes123]

8 minutes ago, AdviceNeeded said:

Can I really blame them? 
 

Yes, wholeheartedly.

 

It's easy to say that. But if we were doctors and had the life experience they had, we might have acted just like they did to us, truly believing it was the best for our patients.

 

That being said, doctors are mostly ignorant, clueless, arrogant, stupid and are literally killing people with their ignorance and misplaced trust in academic knowledge and pharmaceutical companies.

[Katy398]

On 5/19/2021 at 3:20 PM, Yesyes123 said:

I really want to make a huge difference on this scandal somehow

I feel this could be my ultimate healing. I think of families who open SIDS. Doing ‘something’ is twofold!

On 5/19/2021 at 3:20 PM, Yesyes123 said:

I'm not even sure what's worse… the withdrawal symptoms or the realization that all this insane and terrible sh*t is actually real and it's happening everyday to countless people all around the world. And I'm one of them. It makes me sick to think I put that pill in my mouth everyday for years. 

I feel exactly the same @Yesyes123If I were a psychiatrist/ neurologist I’d be fascinated by this. I’d be researching and questioning what really is happening in the brain. This is big, it’s huge why are so few interested?

‘The placebo effect’  is a given.   I often wonder about a ‘BEING BELIEVED EFFECT’ How would our recovery differ if we were just simply believed!

We need a professional to say to ‘yes sadly that’s a withdrawal symptom too,  it’s your brain trying to adjust without the drugs. Try this when it happens or this. We need a professional in the field to smile and show empathy then say, remember, you will get better. 

We don’t want to have to question whether this is a conspiracy theory. 

We want the qualified person to ‘know’ and support. 

My gratitude for this site is immense, it is quite literally saving people’s lives.  This site is also a tragedy, the sick supporting the sick. It’s the healthy that need to support the sick as they do in every other area of illness. The medical profession despise Dr Google but the shocking truth is that  in this scenario Dr Google has saved more lives!!

[BfromNJ]

3 hours ago, Yesyes123 said:

 

It's easy to say that. But if we were doctors and had the life experience they had, we might have acted just like they did to us, truly believing it was the best for our patients.

 

That being said, doctors are mostly ignorant, clueless, arrogant, stupid and are literally killing people with their ignorance and misplaced trust in academic knowledge and pharmaceutical companies.

They follow the dollar.  They get kick backs for prescribing certain meds.  

[Yesyes123]

45 minutes ago, BfromNJ said:

They get kick backs for prescribing certain meds.

 

I don't doubt it; but do you have any evidence or definite proof of this?

[BfromNJ]

3 minutes ago, Yesyes123 said:

 

I don't doubt it; but do you have any evidence or definite proof of this?

My moms doctor told her once he was going on a free cruise because it.  She couldn't believe he told her that.  

[Istm]

4 hours ago, Yesyes123 said:

 

I don't doubt it; but do you have any evidence or definite proof of this?

https://projects.propublica.org/docdollars/ if you are in the US you can insert the name of your doctor here and see how much they are being paid by pharma, I read here (https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/10/report-more-than-half-of-all-us-doctors-get-money-from-pharma-each-year/) that more than half of the doctors in the US are (and I would guess it's similar in other western countries)

[Tweet]

I blame the Doctors for their ignorance, arrogance and greed. 

As hospitals are being paid per head for covid diagnosis I am sure there are kickbacks and repercussions for not peddling big pharma's wares.

However I also blame myself for choosing to pop a pill instead of doing the hard work, which I began doing anyway when I went cold turkey and when I was still in hell with the symptoms.

I wish I had just done the hard work in the first place and skipped being another person for over 20 years of my life. 

Life is so much better now, though!

 

 

[tiredtess]

When first came into contact with psyches there seemed no other option than to pop a pill

tt

[Hank89]

Is it common that the waves get longer over time? Since I went cold turkey from venlafaxine 15 months ago I'm unfortunately having that pattern. In the beginning my waves of depression would last only 1-3 days, and now they last at least a week. The windows are weaker as well..

[persistente]

I wonder what is happening with me as well. I have never been so long without a real window. My waves were usually one week. I have improved in a sence that symtoms were milder and duration was sorter. Windows were longer. So I was even doing just fine for more than few months. And now it has been more than a month of horror and I am nearly 4 years off. 

[Phoenixmama]

I am so sorry to hear this , it’s so frustrating and wow four years off 

[Hanna72]

Hi @Persistence

First I would like to congratulate you on being 4 years free. Thats a huge accomplishment.

5 minutes ago, persistente said:

And now it has been more than a month of horror

I am so sorry to hear that you have been struggling.

Since last year, when the pandemic started, we as human beings have had to endure alot of uncertainty and so many rules, social restrictions and so on. Its not surprising that our mental health has suffered. Its absolutely normal to come to a point were we feel, anxiety, low mood and fear.

I dont know what symptoms you are experiencing, but it might be a good idea to look into coping skills, reading up um things that might help you out, if possible. 

16 minutes ago, persistente said:

I have improved in a sence that symtoms were milder and duration was sorter. Windows were longer. So I was even doing just fine for more than few months.

This is a very good sign that you are having these good moments of windows. When you feel you have been knockdown, the only way is up, pushing through and remembering those bright and good moments.

 

Hope you get a relief soon, I know you will. 

[BrokenWings]

Any sufferers that are dealing with tinnitus notice an uptick in intensity right before a wave hits?

[persistente]

 

On 6/3/2021 at 9:15 PM, Hanna72 said:

 

Hope you get a relief soon, I know you will. 

Thank you. I red it as soon as you post it but was not even able to respond. There was no way I could believe that there was hope for the relief.

 

You were right. I am out of it as this morning. I hope it lasts. 

 

It is so strange how our brains during the wave can not believe that it is just the wave and that the wave will pass.

 

I have been through many really bad psychological waves (maybe even more than 10-15), and during it, it is unpossible to relax from terror it is causing and believe it is not permanent.

[siderale]

I still don't know whether I'm currently I'm in a longer wave (1 month) or if it's just a relapse that has been "hurried" by the "acute" withdrawal symptoms I experienced. I'm confused because I could pinpoint it was withdrawal in the 2 months following me being off meds, as I had a bunch of wildly different physical symptoms I could link to withdrawal after clearing off other physical causes. The waves were 3-4 days long, for 1-2 days windows.

And now it seems like I'm stuck, and I see almost no improvement, even if I try rationalising it. My state is weirdly altered, with long and unchanging symptoms for the past month.

 

Can waves suddenly "change shape" & the way I "feel" them after some months?

[Phoenixmama]

I'm sitting here at my desk drowning in sad feelings reading success stories , members describe waves as getting milder along the way , I'm wondering if this goes for members that had an adverse reaction to the ssri's... my windows and waves are so weird and all over the place... i feel so lost in this... any help will be appreciated 

[BrokenWings]

@Phoenixmama I feel for you. I am also struggling and my windows and waves are also all over the place. Hang in there and keep fighting. We will get through this.

[Yesyes123]

Hello, I finally finished the video showing how I crush my pills into powder for tapering, please watch it below in 1080p and also read the description

 

 

[Phoenixmama]

@BrokenWings Rosetta commented on my post over in my tread yesterday, it’s pretty cool if you want to take a look at it 

[persistente]

20 hours ago, Phoenixmama said:

I'm sitting here at my desk drowning in sad feelings reading success stories , members describe waves as getting milder along the way , I'm wondering if this goes for members that had an adverse reaction to the ssri's... my windows and waves are so weird and all over the place... i feel so lost in this... any help will be appreciated 

I had adverse reaction in December 2016 when my reinstatement (at that time I was not aware that wd lasts months after stopping the drugs so I believed depression came back) but did not recognize it and kept taking it. After that new ADs were added. And I ct-ed them...It does not get much worse then that.....But I am healing. It does get better...

[Phoenixmama]

hi @persistente thank you for your encouragement , it means a lot to me , everyone on here is so nice and gentle and genuine ❤️ 

[BrokenWings]

On 6/8/2021 at 9:11 AM, Phoenixmama said:

@BrokenWings Rosetta commented on my post over in my tread yesterday, it’s pretty cool if you want to take a look at it 

 

@Phoenixmama Thanks, I will take a look. I did not have an adverse reaction but my windows and waves are also all over the place.