The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

[AnnaAnimal]

Thank you so much guys for the support and information. It means so much!

 

[Jools44]

On 11/1/2021 at 5:36 PM, Kat66 said:

Blimey, isn't it absolutely horrible when you come out of a window where you've actually felt somewhere nearer 'normal', and you slam into a wave and it's like you're two different people? Tell me what that's been like for you! 

@Kat66 it really, really is. Just feels like I've been plunged back in to the depths and have to come to this website to remind myself it's 'normal' for withdrawal and that I'm not alone.

So many tears today 😢

[Kat66]

3 hours ago, Jools44 said:

@Kat66 it really, really is. Just feels like I've been plunged back in to the depths and have to come to this website to remind myself it's 'normal' for withdrawal and that I'm not alone.

So many tears today 😢

I’m so sorry you’re suffering @Jools44 that’s why this website is so incredibly valuable. It makes what can feel like such a lonely journey slightly less so ❤️

[MaidofErin]

I'm feeling a bit down and frustrated today, well more than usual. The last couple of months have been a stress-fest- long story I'm to tired to type out- and I haven't had a window of any significance for ages. I have also noticed an increase in the severity of the inflammatory pains. Yesterday I had such pain in my right wrist, I could barely do any of my jobs around the house at all. I have to drive my son to work and then come home again 5 days a week, sometimes twice a day and I was worried the pain was going to stop me being able to drive, it was that bad! Now my right shoulder feels like it's been battered with a hammer. I'm also absolutely worn out nearly all the time, even if I've slept well and the slightest effort drains me and has me gasping to get my breath back!

  I'm fed up to beggary now with this and am wondering, when will I ever have a wave again? Any advice or encouragement welcome.

[MaidofErin]

On 6/27/2021 at 4:21 AM, Katy398 said:

I’ve just put this on my introduction post but thought I’d put it here too. 

Why does stress induce waves?

And why does the wave have to continue way after the stress has gone away.  I have to say that at 31 months drug free I’m finding  it hard to be optimistic about healing. Take care everyone. 🧡

I'm just coming out of a very stressful couple of moths and I haven't had a wave for ages either. I suppose it's to be expected that prolonged extreme stress would deplete one's seratonin and dopamine but I just resent it so feckin' much at the moment! I feel pissed off and resentful and not a little sorry for myself! 

  Have you had another wave yet? I hope you have and are feeling much better than when you wrote this?

[MaidofErin]

On 5/19/2021 at 6:20 AM, Yesyes123 said:

How do you guys deal with the fact doctors are simply clueless about what these drugs really are, how they work, what they actually do to people and especially their possible dangers? Do you just avoid thinking about it?

 

It's not even just that they're clueless - they live in a separate reality where these drugs are "harmless" and always help everyone with little to no problems whatsoever - everything in their lives points to that… I mean,

 

Their colleagues, their teachers at university, their entire literature, the drug companies, the fact these drugs are extremely common and used/ seen as if they're no big deal by most people… everything and everyone they trust tells them to keep drugging people, it's good, you're helping them.

 

Can you really blame them? Yes and no, I think. I mean, I keep thinking that if I was a doctor I would absolutely figure it out instantly and would learn the truth about these drugs. But would I really? Maybe I would have turned into one of those doctors who totally believe these drugs are fixing chemical imbalances...

 

This **** makes me suicidal sometimes. It's just so insanely atrocious and it seems unreal - a dark, twisted horror story. Sometimes I just can't believe the world I lived in and was so happy on is plagued by this demon named psychiatry. People are being told they have brain diseases that aren't real and drugged for them. Innocent, completely normal and healthy people. It's truly sickening.

 

I'm not even sure what's worse… the withdrawal symptoms or the realization that all this insane and terrible sh*t is actually real and it's happening everyday to countless people all around the world. And I'm one of them. It makes me sick to think I put that pill in my mouth everyday for years. 

 

I'm thankful to be on my way out of this and I really want to make a huge difference on this scandal somehow. 

I've lost so much faith and trust in the medical profession and haven't been near them since early March last year. I can't believe how much they just tow the line of the pharmaceutical companies, deny patient's lived experiences and seem to not fully understand how the drugs they prescribe can cause more suffering than they alleviate. I am disgusted with many of them TBH and I was a psychiatric nurse for 12 years.

   I suspect it may be due to a sort of false belief that natural human unhappiness can be medicated away, which is hubristic and just not true. What would be better would be to only use very short course of antidepressants and anxiolytics for extreme cases and also to have programmes which help people develop emotional toughness to deal with the downs that are a natural part of life. There's a load of money in drugging people and keeping them dependant on those drugs, though so I can't see it changing. All we can do is not allow ourselves to be drugged again and try and learn from our experiences.

[Ktven48]

I’ve seen some members graph/chart their symptoms and you can clearly see the windows and waves pattern. I think they are really helpful to see - wondering if anyone else can post theirs here. Or ina new thread.

[MaidofErin]

I'm happy to report I had a window yesterday! God is good! I did have a return of the soreness in between my shoulder blades after doing the food shop but I felt so much less exhausted, almost normal, so I was really pleased. I'm not exactly ready to run the 4 Minute Mile today but I don't feel too bad and am hoping the window is going to last for a few days anyway!

  Here's hoping and praying we all have lovely clear, bright windows over the Christmas and New Year!

[BrokenWings]

On 12/15/2021 at 1:16 PM, MaidofErin said:

I'm feeling a bit down and frustrated today, well more than usual. The last couple of months have been a stress-fest- long story I'm to tired to type out- and I haven't had a window of any significance for ages. I have also noticed an increase in the severity of the inflammatory pains. Yesterday I had such pain in my right wrist, I could barely do any of my jobs around the house at all. I have to drive my son to work and then come home again 5 days a week, sometimes twice a day and I was worried the pain was going to stop me being able to drive, it was that bad! Now my right shoulder feels like it's been battered with a hammer. I'm also absolutely worn out nearly all the time, even if I've slept well and the slightest effort drains me and has me gasping to get my breath back!

  I'm fed up to beggary now with this and am wondering, when will I ever have a wave again? Any advice or encouragement welcome.

@MaidofErin I feel your pain. I am still struggling with waves and windows and I can't do anything when I am in a wave no matter how hard I try it just cripples me. I am wondering myself being close to 48 months out since I stopped taking Zoloft if I will ever recover and become a functioning human being again.

[AnnaAnimal]

I am in the situation where the windows are almost completely gone. Previously I had waves and good parts through out the day but now I feel like drowning in the waves. Couple days ago I had horrible joint pain in my hips and I was actually glad. That physical pain was little bit masking the inner pain so I could focus on that. How twisted my life has begun. It is constant surviving day after day. I am also fighting not to turn to some other drugs but I can't live like this. I am afraid that this feeling is here to stay and this is no living. I would need a skilled therapist but I am afraid I wouldn't find anyone who could help me. I had therapy for a year and it just made things worse. 

[ThatOneGirlStitch]

No waves, No windows. Stuck in WD normal

 

Shouldn't I be having waves and windows. It's the same all the time. I'm stuck in WD normal. Why is this? How can I heal if I am in a plateau? 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with existing topic

[liverstone1951]

Regarding "Windows and Waves" pattern, is it possible for another psychiatric drug to be disrupting it? Let's say you're reinstating drug A, but you're taking drug B at the same time. You're slowly recovering with re-instating drug A - you're experiencing increasingly frequent "Windows" - but every time you change the dose of drug B, you go back into a "Wave". 

 

Also does this Window and Wave pattern only apply when you're withdrawing, or does it also apply when you're re-instating? 

[Sofa]

I think i have some Windows and waves, but in my Windows i am never 100% normal, just Maybe 10% of what i used to be. None of my symptoms go away, they just get a little less intense. Then i get i wave and i usually get a new symptom while my existing onse worse . So my symptoms just keep piling up! Is this normal? For it to be like this? Will there come a time when i stop getting new symptoms and have symptoms disappear? 

[ChessieCat]

On 4/2/2022 at 11:08 PM, Sofa said:

I think i have some Windows and waves, but in my Windows i am never 100% normal, just Maybe 10% of what i used to be. None of my symptoms go away, they just get a little less intense. Then i get i wave and i usually get a new symptom while my existing onse worse . So my symptoms just keep piling up! Is this normal? For it to be like this? Will there come a time when i stop getting new symptoms and have symptoms disappear? 

 

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

From What is Happening in Your Brain

 

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR streel structures are [...] to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made. 

And just like the Twin Towers- it's possible - but the building is a major effort -and it takes a good year or more sometimes.
 

[Sofa]

When you have a wave, does it come on suddenly, and then get gradually worse, and then hit a bottom and then get a little better gradually, but never hit your former baseline before another wave hits? That is how it is for me. It just gets worse and worse day by day now. 

[PiedoDerPSSD]

On 4/10/2022 at 2:14 PM, Sofa said:

When you have a wave, does it come on suddenly, and then get gradually worse, and then hit a bottom and then get a little better gradually, but never hit your former baseline before another wave hits? That is how it is for me. It just gets worse and worse day by day now. 

Yes, it's like feel your worst ever, then feel better, like better than the last time you felt better. The  it's much worse again. I think it feels much worse because you were feeling good and reminded of life before pssd. It's a disheartening sad feeling.

[stepht527]

Does a wave indicate that you've done something wrong, like tapered too fast? Or will they happen regardless, and do you just ride them out? I'm scared that if I'm in a wave I have to change something,  fix it somehow. 

[Wanttofreemyself]

Yes I'm experiencing these windows and waves. It sucks, it's mentally draining. I hate it when the wave hits you when you are out of the house, with friends or at work.

 

I'm on day 5 of these waves and I kind of noticed it comes on when I'm about to eat or when I'm eating.

 

Anyone experienced this?

[tsranga]

On 5/26/2022 at 6:36 AM, stepht527 said:

Does a wave indicate that you've done something wrong, like tapered too fast? Or will they happen regardless, and do you just ride them out? I'm scared that if I'm in a wave I have to change something,  fix it somehow. 

 

It can happen regardless so I would avoid trying to problem solve why you are in a wave. 

 

What's important is to stick to a consistent routine - Diet, exercises etc and avoid drastic changes.  This will help you identify any potential triggers, but in many cases, you can have a wave at any time without a trigger. Waves are a sign of a healing nervous system and keep reminding yourself of this.

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Wanttofreemyself said:

I kind of noticed it comes on when I'm about to eat or when I'm eating.

 

eating-food-as-an-activating-factor-increasing-anxiety-or-symptoms

 

[Wanttofreemyself]

The lingering anxiety and the waves and the miserable feeling is eating away at me. How long does it usually last?

[Estman]

6 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

eating-food-as-an-activating-factor-increasing-anxiety-or-symptoms

 

I often have a very fast pulse after lunch.
I have a habit of prolonging and sleeping for 1-2 hours after lunch.
If I'm too tired at work in the morning and I eat lunch, my heart rate is especially high.
I just lay down and can't sleep and my heart rate is around 100-105
This will take several hours.
Two days ago I did a few hours of physical work.
I felt normal in the morning.
After lunch, however, I was very tired
There was a quick exhaustion, a fast pulse.
Great anxiety for the evening and headache
Couldn't sleep even at night.
It has been severe depression since yesterday
Physical exertion triggered a wave for me.
As if there was too much cortisol and now too little serotonin.
Physical activity should produce endorphins in a healthy person
It causes a rapid pulse and a wave of depression
The pulse became very fast about half an hour after lunch
Although I did not eat too much or hard

[curiousnootropics]

Can the waves be worse at the end of withdrawal?

[ThatOneGirlStitch]

18 hours ago, curiousnootropics said:

Can the waves be worse at the end of withdrawal?

From other people's experience, yes. It doesn't happen with everyone. But it seems to happen enough to be talked about. That is where their biggest healing is done. So it is possible.

 

[ChessieCat]

22 hours ago, curiousnootropics said:

Can the waves be worse at the end of withdrawal?

 

It may not be that the waves are worse, but it might be that because a person has been feeling a lot of improvement over a longer period of time so that when they experience a wave it actually feels worse.

 

They are possibly comparing how they feel in the wave to how they felt recently.  They are not comparing it to how they felt at their worst.

 

And also, waves are more expected at the beginning than they are at the end, so it may also be due to being "surprised" and disappointed/upset that they are experiencing a wave again and of course because of previous experience they start to wonder how long it will last and if they will ever stop getting waves.

[Kaervin]

It can be pretty devastating to be hit with a wave so far into recovery. Like ChessieCat said, a wave can feel horrible in relation to how you felt prior to its arrival.

 

After Dec. 2010 I had acute withdrawal in Jan. 2011, horrible major wave in April 2011, minor wave in August/Sept. 2011. Then I was stable and felt functional until April 2012 came. In hindsight that last wave was probably no more intense than my previous ones, it's just that after feeling close to normal from Sept to March, I felt blindsided. I panicked and made the regretful decision to start an AD, of which now I am dealing with the consequences.

 

Just remember, like with your previous waves, things will improve over time. Try not to work yourself up. Take it easy and avoid making rash decisions.

[Kat66]

On 6/4/2022 at 3:22 AM, Wanttofreemyself said:

The lingering anxiety and the waves and the miserable feeling is eating away at me. How long does it usually last?

I really hear you @Wanttofreemyself and feel the same myself as I am 18 months into this rabbithole. But I think what @tsranga said is essential to keep in mind; ‘Waves are a sign of a healing nervous system and keep reminding yourself of this.’ I find this really gives me hope.

[Wanttofreemyself]

11 hours ago, Kat66 said:

I really hear you @Wanttofreemyself and feel the same myself as I am 18 months into this rabbithole. But I think what @tsranga said is essential to keep in mind; ‘Waves are a sign of a healing nervous system and keep reminding yourself of this.’ I find this really gives me hope.

Thank you for your reply. I'm glad I'm healing since that post. I still have some lingering anxiety but it's when it's in the morning or when I think too much about anxiety I feel it. 

[Wanttofreemyself]

I spoke too soon. Trying to nap after a day of work only to keep feeling anxiety rise when closing my eyes, it's pretty annoying

[Wanttofreemyself]

Question, does the waves refer only to anxiety or depressive mood as well?

 

Sometimes I feel like I'm experiencing both like it's mixed together so it's hard to say if I'm feeling anxiety or depressive mood. Anyone knows what I'm talking about?

[ChessieCat]

2 hours ago, Wanttofreemyself said:

Question, does the waves refer only to anxiety or depressive mood as well?

 

Sometimes I feel like I'm experiencing both like it's mixed together so it's hard to say if I'm feeling anxiety or depressive mood. Anyone knows what I'm talking about?

 

Please read Post #1 of this topic which has a summary of comments from members.

 

A window is any time when you feel your symptom/s improve, a wave is when you feel your symptoms worsen, regardless of what that symptom is.

[persistente]

8.5 months out is still early for waves to feel less debilitating. If I was back to that time I would work on my patience since I did not have enough of it. Thank God that he gave me much more persistance so I could make it through it.

[Estman]

Hi,

Do the waves usually start 5-6 days after changing or reducing the dose?
I reduced the daily dose by 6-7% eight days ago
4-5 days was more or less tolerable.
I had very bad nightmares for 4 days at night.
I have also noticed before that the sleep gets very bad a couple of days before the wave. Just like a mini signal
Yesterday, on the 7th day, drowsiness-confusion and extreme anxiety started.
Total anxiety and high blood pressure today.
Are the hardest days about a week after tapering?
What to do with high blood pressure?

[Kewlbeanz]

53 minutes ago, Estman said:

Hi,

Do the waves usually start 5-6 days after changing or reducing the dose?
I reduced the daily dose by 6-7% eight days ago
4-5 days was more or less tolerable.
I had very bad nightmares for 4 days at night.
I have also noticed before that the sleep gets very bad a couple of days before the wave. Just like a mini signal
Yesterday, on the 7th day, drowsiness-confusion and extreme anxiety started.
Total anxiety and high blood pressure today.
Are the hardest days about a week after tapering?
What to do with high blood pressure?

This sounds spot on. That's how I experience symptoms after tapering. I only taper Lexapro at a rate of 2.5% a month and I still get withdrawal. It's always noticable at days 5-7 and last about a week or two.  I don't post as much since this platform is a little different. I'm still trying to figure it out. 

[Estman]

42 minutes ago, Kewlbeanz said:

This sounds spot on. That's how I experience symptoms after tapering. I only taper Lexapro at a rate of 2.5% a month and I still get withdrawal. It's always noticable at days 5-7 and last about a week or two.  I don't post as much since this platform is a little different. I'm still trying to figure it out. 

yes, same here
Have you reduced the larger dose at the same time?
I usually stay on the same dose for about 40 days.
If it is stable, then you get used to it and fear to start reducing again.
Is there a noticeable difference in the severity of the symptoms, for example if you reduce 2.5% or 4%?
I also have fluctuating high blood pressure during the wave now.
Can't do anything with it.

[tsranga]

On 7/6/2022 at 8:46 AM, Estman said:

yes, same here
Have you reduced the larger dose at the same time?
I usually stay on the same dose for about 40 days.
If it is stable, then you get used to it and fear to start reducing again.
Is there a noticeable difference in the severity of the symptoms, for example if you reduce 2.5% or 4%?
I also have fluctuating high blood pressure during the wave now.
Can't do anything with it.

Just FYI, I still get the high BP when I am in a flare almost 3.5 years after I did a CT withdrawal.  

 

 

Thankfully it lasts a few hours at the most, unless it's a flare like I am in after COVID.  It still has a big impact on the body and mind (constantly in fight flight mode, thought spirals, temperature sensitivity etc), but the body seems to recover faster.