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The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization


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Thank you so much guys for the support and information. It means so much!

 

Citalopram 2000- mid Dec 2020 (20mg -40mg varying)

Venlafaxin mid Dec 2020- mid May 2021

Valdoxan 50mg mid Dec 2020

Valdoxan 37,5mg Oct 1st 2021

Isotretinoin (Roaccutan) Nov 11-Nov 14.2021

Brintellix 10mg Nov 16-18.2021

Valdoxan 25mg Nov 16.2021

Valdoxan 37,5mg Nov 18.2021

Oxazepam 15mg Nov 18.2021: 1/2 to 1 pills 1-4 x a week

Melatonin 1,9-3,8mg Nov 15.2021 every night

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On 11/1/2021 at 5:36 PM, Kat66 said:

Blimey, isn't it absolutely horrible when you come out of a window where you've actually felt somewhere nearer 'normal', and you slam into a wave and it's like you're two different people? Tell me what that's been like for you! 

@Kat66 it really, really is. Just feels like I've been plunged back in to the depths and have to come to this website to remind myself it's 'normal' for withdrawal and that I'm not alone.

So many tears today 😢

2011 - started 15 mg mirtazepine. 2015- successfully tapered off. 2016 - Reinstated on 3.75mg as a sleep aid. July 2019 - 3.75mg Stopped working, increased to 15 then 22.5mg.Sept 2020 initiated slow liquid taper. Sept 2021 at 7.5mg for 3 months hit very bad withdrawals (also very stressed). Increased dose to 30 for 3 weeks then reduced to 22.5mg3rd Nov - Started magnesium supplement. 3rd Nov - started oestrogen hrt gel. 20th Dec - stopped oestrogen after 3 week taper. Currently still on 22.5mg mirtazepine and oral magnesium. 12/1 started with 1 capsule omega 3 fish oil. 14/ developed very loose motions so stopping the fish oil. 14/2/2022: after 5 months on the same dose decided to restart taper with a 5% cut: 21.4mg mirtazepine. Low histamine diet and magnesium. 14/03 reduced another 5% 20. 25mg 01/05 reduced to 19mg

 

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3 hours ago, Jools44 said:

@Kat66 it really, really is. Just feels like I've been plunged back in to the depths and have to come to this website to remind myself it's 'normal' for withdrawal and that I'm not alone.

So many tears today 😢

I’m so sorry you’re suffering @Jools44 that’s why this website is so incredibly valuable. It makes what can feel like such a lonely journey slightly less so ❤️

History of depression and anxiety. Symptoms of PTSD.

1998-1999 Venlafaxine 2006-2007 Prozac. 2013-15 Sertraline 50mg. 2015 cross-tapered to citalopram 20mg. 2015-2021 Citalopram 20mg (brief increase to 30mg for 2/3 months in 2019.

01/2021 Dropped from 20mg to 10mg, back up to 20mg til June.

25/6/21 stopped CT. Started 50mg 5htp after a week without citalopram in the hope this would balance out my serotonin levels. After 3 days increased to 100mg 5htp.
11/7/21 Stopped 5htp with the intention of reinstating citalopram at 1mg.  

16/7/21 Reinstated cit at 1mg.

2/8/21 Increased dose to 2mg. 
28/11/21 10% reduction to 1.8mg.

8/12/21 2mg 6/1/22 1.8mg 10/2/22 1.6mg 13/5/22 1.5mg 4/6/22 1.55mg 4/7/22 1.4mg 4/8/22 1.25mg

Multiple unsuccessful previous attempts to taper off citalopram. Vegan, otherwise healthy lifestyle. Other medications; kliovance (HRT) Other supplements; magnesium glycinate, calcium, B12, vitD and vegan omega3. I use valerian and lemon balm tea for anxiety relief

Completely OFF booze (since 6/11/21) and caffeine (since July 21) now. Main symptoms; crushing depression, anhedonia/emotional anesthesia, irritability, rage, anxiety/fear, cognitive fog, inability to focus, restlessness and some insomnia

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm feeling a bit down and frustrated today, well more than usual. The last couple of months have been a stress-fest- long story I'm to tired to type out- and I haven't had a window of any significance for ages. I have also noticed an increase in the severity of the inflammatory pains. Yesterday I had such pain in my right wrist, I could barely do any of my jobs around the house at all. I have to drive my son to work and then come home again 5 days a week, sometimes twice a day and I was worried the pain was going to stop me being able to drive, it was that bad! Now my right shoulder feels like it's been battered with a hammer. I'm also absolutely worn out nearly all the time, even if I've slept well and the slightest effort drains me and has me gasping to get my breath back!

  I'm fed up to beggary now with this and am wondering, when will I ever have a wave again? Any advice or encouragement welcome.

1. 1995-Antidepressants prescribed in England, an SSRI , cannot remember which one. I cannot remember the finish date but think I was off them by September 1997.

2. September/October 1999- Prescribed Prozac ?20mg and Xanax 0.25mg B.D. in Ireland. Returned to England in February 2000 and GP did not continue prescription, cannot remember details ?

3. Prescribed Prozac in 2001- cannot remember how long for.

4. Prescribed Xanax 0.25mg-0.5mg in England in Summer 2005. Moved back to Ireland in April 2006 and GP refused to prescribe them so I had an abrupt withdrawal.

5. Prescribed Zispin in Summer 2012. Stopped after 4 or 5 weeks abruptly with no problems!

6. December 2017- Prescribed Seroxat/ paroxitine 20mg. Dose increased to 30mg in Summer 2018. Started tapering in March 2020. Used Prozac "bridge" and liquid Seroxat half way through. Final dose in August 2020.

7. August 2020 - 5-HTP 10 drops 3 x a day

August 2021, reduced t-HTP to 7 drops 3 x a day

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On 6/27/2021 at 4:21 AM, Katy398 said:

I’ve just put this on my introduction post but thought I’d put it here too. 

Why does stress induce waves?

And why does the wave have to continue way after the stress has gone away.  I have to say that at 31 months drug free I’m finding  it hard to be optimistic about healing. Take care everyone. 🧡

I'm just coming out of a very stressful couple of moths and I haven't had a wave for ages either. I suppose it's to be expected that prolonged extreme stress would deplete one's seratonin and dopamine but I just resent it so feckin' much at the moment! I feel pissed off and resentful and not a little sorry for myself! 

  Have you had another wave yet? I hope you have and are feeling much better than when you wrote this?

1. 1995-Antidepressants prescribed in England, an SSRI , cannot remember which one. I cannot remember the finish date but think I was off them by September 1997.

2. September/October 1999- Prescribed Prozac ?20mg and Xanax 0.25mg B.D. in Ireland. Returned to England in February 2000 and GP did not continue prescription, cannot remember details ?

3. Prescribed Prozac in 2001- cannot remember how long for.

4. Prescribed Xanax 0.25mg-0.5mg in England in Summer 2005. Moved back to Ireland in April 2006 and GP refused to prescribe them so I had an abrupt withdrawal.

5. Prescribed Zispin in Summer 2012. Stopped after 4 or 5 weeks abruptly with no problems!

6. December 2017- Prescribed Seroxat/ paroxitine 20mg. Dose increased to 30mg in Summer 2018. Started tapering in March 2020. Used Prozac "bridge" and liquid Seroxat half way through. Final dose in August 2020.

7. August 2020 - 5-HTP 10 drops 3 x a day

August 2021, reduced t-HTP to 7 drops 3 x a day

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On 5/19/2021 at 6:20 AM, Yesyes123 said:

How do you guys deal with the fact doctors are simply clueless about what these drugs really are, how they work, what they actually do to people and especially their possible dangers? Do you just avoid thinking about it?

 

It's not even just that they're clueless - they live in a separate reality where these drugs are "harmless" and always help everyone with little to no problems whatsoever - everything in their lives points to that… I mean,

 

Their colleagues, their teachers at university, their entire literature, the drug companies, the fact these drugs are extremely common and used/ seen as if they're no big deal by most people… everything and everyone they trust tells them to keep drugging people, it's good, you're helping them.

 

Can you really blame them? Yes and no, I think. I mean, I keep thinking that if I was a doctor I would absolutely figure it out instantly and would learn the truth about these drugs. But would I really? Maybe I would have turned into one of those doctors who totally believe these drugs are fixing chemical imbalances...

 

This **** makes me suicidal sometimes. It's just so insanely atrocious and it seems unreal - a dark, twisted horror story. Sometimes I just can't believe the world I lived in and was so happy on is plagued by this demon named psychiatry. People are being told they have brain diseases that aren't real and drugged for them. Innocent, completely normal and healthy people. It's truly sickening.

 

I'm not even sure what's worse… the withdrawal symptoms or the realization that all this insane and terrible sh*t is actually real and it's happening everyday to countless people all around the world. And I'm one of them. It makes me sick to think I put that pill in my mouth everyday for years. 

 

I'm thankful to be on my way out of this and I really want to make a huge difference on this scandal somehow. 

I've lost so much faith and trust in the medical profession and haven't been near them since early March last year. I can't believe how much they just tow the line of the pharmaceutical companies, deny patient's lived experiences and seem to not fully understand how the drugs they prescribe can cause more suffering than they alleviate. I am disgusted with many of them TBH and I was a psychiatric nurse for 12 years.

   I suspect it may be due to a sort of false belief that natural human unhappiness can be medicated away, which is hubristic and just not true. What would be better would be to only use very short course of antidepressants and anxiolytics for extreme cases and also to have programmes which help people develop emotional toughness to deal with the downs that are a natural part of life. There's a load of money in drugging people and keeping them dependant on those drugs, though so I can't see it changing. All we can do is not allow ourselves to be drugged again and try and learn from our experiences.

1. 1995-Antidepressants prescribed in England, an SSRI , cannot remember which one. I cannot remember the finish date but think I was off them by September 1997.

2. September/October 1999- Prescribed Prozac ?20mg and Xanax 0.25mg B.D. in Ireland. Returned to England in February 2000 and GP did not continue prescription, cannot remember details ?

3. Prescribed Prozac in 2001- cannot remember how long for.

4. Prescribed Xanax 0.25mg-0.5mg in England in Summer 2005. Moved back to Ireland in April 2006 and GP refused to prescribe them so I had an abrupt withdrawal.

5. Prescribed Zispin in Summer 2012. Stopped after 4 or 5 weeks abruptly with no problems!

6. December 2017- Prescribed Seroxat/ paroxitine 20mg. Dose increased to 30mg in Summer 2018. Started tapering in March 2020. Used Prozac "bridge" and liquid Seroxat half way through. Final dose in August 2020.

7. August 2020 - 5-HTP 10 drops 3 x a day

August 2021, reduced t-HTP to 7 drops 3 x a day

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I’ve seen some members graph/chart their symptoms and you can clearly see the windows and waves pattern. I think they are really helpful to see - wondering if anyone else can post theirs here. Or ina new thread.

Dec 2017

Zoloft 3 nights - bad reaction end up in hospital  // Jan 2018-Jan 2019- Venlafaxine 75mg Trazadone 200mgstarted in hospital // 2019-2020 - Slow venlafaxine taper ended up at 3 beads in mid 2020 pretty flawless taper with minimal withdrawal Symptoms was on 10-20mg PRN adderall during this time  // Jan 2021-March 2021 Miscarriage, Adderall CT, Vaccine still on 3 beads // April 2021-July 2021 Start experiencing withdrawal type symptoms, depression anxiety not sure why - increased to 5-10 beads over two months // July 2021

Pregnant // August 2021

tried to wean down back to 3 beads // September 2021 Hard crash - insomnia, akathisia, panic attacks, cortisol rushes, constant adrenaline rushes, depression, no appetite, nausea on and off, muscle pain // current: October 7th Reinstated 37.5mg of Venlafaxine 200mg Trazadone // 5-10 mg of propranolol 

Clonazepam PRN last dose Oct 6th

trying to stay off

Supplements: Occasional L-theanine 

Prenatal mag citrate 400–600mg before bed

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I'm happy to report I had a window yesterday! God is good! I did have a return of the soreness in between my shoulder blades after doing the food shop but I felt so much less exhausted, almost normal, so I was really pleased. I'm not exactly ready to run the 4 Minute Mile today but I don't feel too bad and am hoping the window is going to last for a few days anyway!

  Here's hoping and praying we all have lovely clear, bright windows over the Christmas and New Year!

1. 1995-Antidepressants prescribed in England, an SSRI , cannot remember which one. I cannot remember the finish date but think I was off them by September 1997.

2. September/October 1999- Prescribed Prozac ?20mg and Xanax 0.25mg B.D. in Ireland. Returned to England in February 2000 and GP did not continue prescription, cannot remember details ?

3. Prescribed Prozac in 2001- cannot remember how long for.

4. Prescribed Xanax 0.25mg-0.5mg in England in Summer 2005. Moved back to Ireland in April 2006 and GP refused to prescribe them so I had an abrupt withdrawal.

5. Prescribed Zispin in Summer 2012. Stopped after 4 or 5 weeks abruptly with no problems!

6. December 2017- Prescribed Seroxat/ paroxitine 20mg. Dose increased to 30mg in Summer 2018. Started tapering in March 2020. Used Prozac "bridge" and liquid Seroxat half way through. Final dose in August 2020.

7. August 2020 - 5-HTP 10 drops 3 x a day

August 2021, reduced t-HTP to 7 drops 3 x a day

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On 12/15/2021 at 1:16 PM, MaidofErin said:

I'm feeling a bit down and frustrated today, well more than usual. The last couple of months have been a stress-fest- long story I'm to tired to type out- and I haven't had a window of any significance for ages. I have also noticed an increase in the severity of the inflammatory pains. Yesterday I had such pain in my right wrist, I could barely do any of my jobs around the house at all. I have to drive my son to work and then come home again 5 days a week, sometimes twice a day and I was worried the pain was going to stop me being able to drive, it was that bad! Now my right shoulder feels like it's been battered with a hammer. I'm also absolutely worn out nearly all the time, even if I've slept well and the slightest effort drains me and has me gasping to get my breath back!

  I'm fed up to beggary now with this and am wondering, when will I ever have a wave again? Any advice or encouragement welcome.

@MaidofErin I feel your pain. I am still struggling with waves and windows and I can't do anything when I am in a wave no matter how hard I try it just cripples me. I am wondering myself being close to 48 months out since I stopped taking Zoloft if I will ever recover and become a functioning human being again.

BrokenWings: Introduction

 

Zoloft (Sertraline) 50 mg to 150 mg
Start Date: 2/1/2000
End Date: 1/26/2018

Quit cold turkey, Quit multiple times using recommended tapering from a psychiatrist over 2 weeks, Quit using rapid taper over about 1 year 150mg to 100mg to 75mg to 50 mg to 25 mg to 12.5 mg to 0mg.

 

Klonopin (Clonazepam) 0.5 mg as needed
Start Date: 2/1/2000
End Date: 3/1/2000

Quit cold turkey after one month.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I am in the situation where the windows are almost completely gone. Previously I had waves and good parts through out the day but now I feel like drowning in the waves. Couple days ago I had horrible joint pain in my hips and I was actually glad. That physical pain was little bit masking the inner pain so I could focus on that. How twisted my life has begun. It is constant surviving day after day. I am also fighting not to turn to some other drugs but I can't live like this. I am afraid that this feeling is here to stay and this is no living. I would need a skilled therapist but I am afraid I wouldn't find anyone who could help me. I had therapy for a year and it just made things worse. 

Citalopram 2000- mid Dec 2020 (20mg -40mg varying)

Venlafaxin mid Dec 2020- mid May 2021

Valdoxan 50mg mid Dec 2020

Valdoxan 37,5mg Oct 1st 2021

Isotretinoin (Roaccutan) Nov 11-Nov 14.2021

Brintellix 10mg Nov 16-18.2021

Valdoxan 25mg Nov 16.2021

Valdoxan 37,5mg Nov 18.2021

Oxazepam 15mg Nov 18.2021: 1/2 to 1 pills 1-4 x a week

Melatonin 1,9-3,8mg Nov 15.2021 every night

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  • 1 month later...

No waves, No windows. Stuck in WD normal

 

Shouldn't I be having waves and windows. It's the same all the time. I'm stuck in WD normal. Why is this? How can I heal if I am in a plateau? 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with existing topic

Current: Bupropion 450mg, Neurontin 800mg, Klonopin 0.5mg

History:

July 2020: started Cogentin 1mg, Lamictal 50mg, Zoloft 150mg, Zyprexa 5mg (+5mg as needed), Klonopin 0.5mg

November 2020: stopped all meds cold-turkey

February 2021: started Latuda 60mg, Lithium 300mg, Melatonin 5mg, Protonix 40mg, Topamax 25mg

2 weeks later: stopped Topamax, increased Lithium 900mg, started Klonopin 1mg, Lexapro 20mg, Neurontin 400mg

April 2021: started Bupropion 150mg, Revia ?mg

May 2021: stopped ReviaProtonixLexaproincreased Neurontin 800mg, started Celexa 10mg

August 2021: decreased Celexa 5mg (stopped Celexa 2 weeks later), increased Bupropion 300mg

September 2021: increased Latuda 80mg

October 2021: decreased Lithium 600mg for 4 daysLithium 300mg for 4 daysstopped LithiumLatuda

     increased Bupropion 450mg, started Remeron 15mg, decreased Remeron 7.5mg, stopped Remeron

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  • 1 month later...

Regarding "Windows and Waves" pattern, is it possible for another psychiatric drug to be disrupting it? Let's say you're reinstating drug A, but you're taking drug B at the same time. You're slowly recovering with re-instating drug A - you're experiencing increasingly frequent "Windows" - but every time you change the dose of drug B, you go back into a "Wave". 

 

Also does this Window and Wave pattern only apply when you're withdrawing, or does it also apply when you're re-instating? 

Jan 2020 - June 2021 Citalopram                                     (1.5 years)

June 2021 - Sep 2021 Citalopram gradual withdrawal    (3 months withdrawal)

Oct 2021 - Dec 2021   Sertraline                                       (2 months)

Dec 2021                      Sertraline gradual withdrawal      (1 month withdrawal)

Dec 2021 - Feb 2022  Mirtazapine                                    (6 weeks)

Feb 2022 - present     Mirtazapine withdrawal                 (2 weeks so far)

Current                        Citalopram re-instating, Mirtazapine withdrawal

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think i have some Windows and waves, but in my Windows i am never 100% normal, just Maybe 10% of what i used to be. None of my symptoms go away, they just get a little less intense. Then i get i wave and i usually get a new symptom while my existing onse worse . So my symptoms just keep piling up! Is this normal? For it to be like this? Will there come a time when i stop getting new symptoms and have symptoms disappear? 

June-July -21 Zyprexa 2.5-7.5 mg 

July -21 Mianserin 20 mg four days

July-Aug -21 Valium 30 mg a day, tapred, return of symptoms 

Aug-Oct -21 Oxazepam Tapred from 10 mg x 3 to zero

Dec-Jan -21/22 On and off mirtazapine 15 mg. Kindling reaction?

March 8.-19. - Zopiclone 7.5 mg to combat insomnia 

March 20 - 5 mg valium because of akathisia and panic 

April 3. - 5 mg x 2

 

 
 

 

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On 4/2/2022 at 11:08 PM, Sofa said:

I think i have some Windows and waves, but in my Windows i am never 100% normal, just Maybe 10% of what i used to be. None of my symptoms go away, they just get a little less intense. Then i get i wave and i usually get a new symptom while my existing onse worse . So my symptoms just keep piling up! Is this normal? For it to be like this? Will there come a time when i stop getting new symptoms and have symptoms disappear? 

 

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

From What is Happening in Your Brain

 

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR streel structures are [...] to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made. 


And just like the Twin Towers- it's possible - but the building is a major effort -and it takes a good year or more sometimes.
 

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq    Post 0 updates start here

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you.

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When you have a wave, does it come on suddenly, and then get gradually worse, and then hit a bottom and then get a little better gradually, but never hit your former baseline before another wave hits? That is how it is for me. It just gets worse and worse day by day now. 

June-July -21 Zyprexa 2.5-7.5 mg 

July -21 Mianserin 20 mg four days

July-Aug -21 Valium 30 mg a day, tapred, return of symptoms 

Aug-Oct -21 Oxazepam Tapred from 10 mg x 3 to zero

Dec-Jan -21/22 On and off mirtazapine 15 mg. Kindling reaction?

March 8.-19. - Zopiclone 7.5 mg to combat insomnia 

March 20 - 5 mg valium because of akathisia and panic 

April 3. - 5 mg x 2

 

 
 

 

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On 4/10/2022 at 2:14 PM, Sofa said:

When you have a wave, does it come on suddenly, and then get gradually worse, and then hit a bottom and then get a little better gradually, but never hit your former baseline before another wave hits? That is how it is for me. It just gets worse and worse day by day now. 

Yes, it's like feel your worst ever, then feel better, like better than the last time you felt better. The  it's much worse again. I think it feels much worse because you were feeling good and reminded of life before pssd. It's a disheartening sad feeling.

Venlafaxine 25mg twice a day ( taken for 2 weeks in December 2019)

Propranolol (20mg-40mg-60mg) doses most of January 2020.

Prazepam 10mg occasionally from December 2019 to February 2020. 

Venlafaxine 25mg twice again 1 week in February 2020.

At the moment i am clean. 

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  • 1 month later...

Does a wave indicate that you've done something wrong, like tapered too fast? Or will they happen regardless, and do you just ride them out? I'm scared that if I'm in a wave I have to change something,  fix it somehow. 

what i can remember:
2007-2020- sertraline 100mg, failed trials of bupropion, venlafaxine, fluvoxamine from 2017-2019 in between. Trial of gabapentin in 2019

2012: clonazepam 0.5mg 1-3x daily.

9/10/2020 - sertraline 100mg at bedtime, trazodone 50-75mg at bedtime, STOPPED clonazepam. started on lorazepam 0.5mg daily 
summer 2021 - tapered down to 12.5mg sertraline (not sure of dates- maybe 2 months?), trazodone 12.5mg bedtime, lorazepam 0.25-0.5mg daily in the morning

9/19/21-9/23/21: 0mg sertraline

9/23/21-started back on sertraline. not sure of starting dose, but eventually up to 50mg

Oct 2021-4/27/22: sertraline 50mg at bedtime & 100mg x 7 days 1 week before period. trazodone 50mg at bedtime.  increased lorazepam  to 0.5mg twice daily

4/28/22 to current: sertraline 50mg, trazodone 37.5mg, lorazepam 0.5mg in am, 0.25mg in evening

other meds: levothyroxine 75mcg


 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yes I'm experiencing these windows and waves. It sucks, it's mentally draining. I hate it when the wave hits you when you are out of the house, with friends or at work.

 

I'm on day 5 of these waves and I kind of noticed it comes on when I'm about to eat or when I'm eating.

 

Anyone experienced this?

- Late 2011/Early 2012? - Started celexa 10mg.

- Sometime in 2012? - Due to doctors advice, jumped to 20mg. Not sure when but doctor suggested 40mg. Tried it for a bit, did not like it, felt flat and had low libido so doctor told me to go down to 30mg.

- Started skipping 1 day or 2 days sometimes due to forgetting and hated being on drugs, felt it was a hassle. It became routine to skip one day and only take it when I felt withdrawal symptoms kick in like dizziness. Always took one 20mg pill and broke the second pill in half.

- May 17 2022, finally talked to my doctor about tapering. Suggested I take 10 mg everyday. Tried taking only 10mg, started getting dizzy, took another half tablet, got horrible anxiety that night. Got scared, had to stop and reinstate back to 30mg that night.

- May 18 2022 discovered and joined survivingantidepressants.org (woozy head and impaired balance lasted 1 week)

- May 19 2022, began trying a reduction, (still skipping a day). Though had no scale so was inaccurately cutting my pills. No idea what dose I was taking, 25-27mg?

- May 25 2022, bought a mg scale and started to better measure my dose. Tried 10% reduction, 27mg. (still skipping a day)

- Ending of May was when I started having horrible anxiety

- June 1 2022, finally started 13.5mg dose 8:15am, and began taking my dose everyday now

- went to 13.7mg after a few weeks and still on it currently. Still taking my dose everyday

 

 

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On 5/26/2022 at 6:36 AM, stepht527 said:

Does a wave indicate that you've done something wrong, like tapered too fast? Or will they happen regardless, and do you just ride them out? I'm scared that if I'm in a wave I have to change something,  fix it somehow. 

 

It can happen regardless so I would avoid trying to problem solve why you are in a wave. 

 

What's important is to stick to a consistent routine - Diet, exercises etc and avoid drastic changes.  This will help you identify any potential triggers, but in many cases, you can have a wave at any time without a trigger. Waves are a sign of a healing nervous system and keep reminding yourself of this.

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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1 hour ago, Wanttofreemyself said:

I kind of noticed it comes on when I'm about to eat or when I'm eating.

 

eating-food-as-an-activating-factor-increasing-anxiety-or-symptoms

 

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq    Post 0 updates start here

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you.

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The lingering anxiety and the waves and the miserable feeling is eating away at me. How long does it usually last?

- Late 2011/Early 2012? - Started celexa 10mg.

- Sometime in 2012? - Due to doctors advice, jumped to 20mg. Not sure when but doctor suggested 40mg. Tried it for a bit, did not like it, felt flat and had low libido so doctor told me to go down to 30mg.

- Started skipping 1 day or 2 days sometimes due to forgetting and hated being on drugs, felt it was a hassle. It became routine to skip one day and only take it when I felt withdrawal symptoms kick in like dizziness. Always took one 20mg pill and broke the second pill in half.

- May 17 2022, finally talked to my doctor about tapering. Suggested I take 10 mg everyday. Tried taking only 10mg, started getting dizzy, took another half tablet, got horrible anxiety that night. Got scared, had to stop and reinstate back to 30mg that night.

- May 18 2022 discovered and joined survivingantidepressants.org (woozy head and impaired balance lasted 1 week)

- May 19 2022, began trying a reduction, (still skipping a day). Though had no scale so was inaccurately cutting my pills. No idea what dose I was taking, 25-27mg?

- May 25 2022, bought a mg scale and started to better measure my dose. Tried 10% reduction, 27mg. (still skipping a day)

- Ending of May was when I started having horrible anxiety

- June 1 2022, finally started 13.5mg dose 8:15am, and began taking my dose everyday now

- went to 13.7mg after a few weeks and still on it currently. Still taking my dose everyday

 

 

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6 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

I often have a very fast pulse after lunch.
I have a habit of prolonging and sleeping for 1-2 hours after lunch.
If I'm too tired at work in the morning and I eat lunch, my heart rate is especially high.
I just lay down and can't sleep and my heart rate is around 100-105
This will take several hours.
Two days ago I did a few hours of physical work.
I felt normal in the morning.
After lunch, however, I was very tired
There was a quick exhaustion, a fast pulse.
Great anxiety for the evening and headache
Couldn't sleep even at night.
It has been severe depression since yesterday
Physical exertion triggered a wave for me.
As if there was too much cortisol and now too little serotonin.
Physical activity should produce endorphins in a healthy person
It causes a rapid pulse and a wave of depression
The pulse became very fast about half an hour after lunch
Although I did not eat too much or hard

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     On 16.07.21 the daily dose was 19 mg     01.06.22  the daily dose of 11mg  I can make dose reductions less often, about every 6-8 weeks

 

                 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Can the waves be worse at the end of withdrawal?

Zoloft, November 2019.  I worked up to 50 mg and stayed there until 1 year later. I tapered for 3 months, which should consider to be cold turkey.
Tapering schedule:
Month 1: 37.5 mg

Month 2: 25 mg

Month 3: 12.5 mg

Month 4(Half the month): 6.75 mg
Month 4(Other half): 0 mg December 9, 2020

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18 hours ago, curiousnootropics said:

Can the waves be worse at the end of withdrawal?

From other people's experience, yes. It doesn't happen with everyone. But it seems to happen enough to be talked about. That is where their biggest healing is done. So it is possible.

 

Current: Bupropion 450mg, Neurontin 800mg, Klonopin 0.5mg

History:

July 2020: started Cogentin 1mg, Lamictal 50mg, Zoloft 150mg, Zyprexa 5mg (+5mg as needed), Klonopin 0.5mg

November 2020: stopped all meds cold-turkey

February 2021: started Latuda 60mg, Lithium 300mg, Melatonin 5mg, Protonix 40mg, Topamax 25mg

2 weeks later: stopped Topamax, increased Lithium 900mg, started Klonopin 1mg, Lexapro 20mg, Neurontin 400mg

April 2021: started Bupropion 150mg, Revia ?mg

May 2021: stopped ReviaProtonixLexaproincreased Neurontin 800mg, started Celexa 10mg

August 2021: decreased Celexa 5mg (stopped Celexa 2 weeks later), increased Bupropion 300mg

September 2021: increased Latuda 80mg

October 2021: decreased Lithium 600mg for 4 daysLithium 300mg for 4 daysstopped LithiumLatuda

     increased Bupropion 450mg, started Remeron 15mg, decreased Remeron 7.5mg, stopped Remeron

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22 hours ago, curiousnootropics said:

Can the waves be worse at the end of withdrawal?

 

It may not be that the waves are worse, but it might be that because a person has been feeling a lot of improvement over a longer period of time so that when they experience a wave it actually feels worse.

 

They are possibly comparing how they feel in the wave to how they felt recently.  They are not comparing it to how they felt at their worst.

 

And also, waves are more expected at the beginning than they are at the end, so it may also be due to being "surprised" and disappointed/upset that they are experiencing a wave again and of course because of previous experience they start to wonder how long it will last and if they will ever stop getting waves.

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq    Post 0 updates start here

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you.

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It can be pretty devastating to be hit with a wave so far into recovery. Like ChessieCat said, a wave can feel horrible in relation to how you felt prior to its arrival.

 

After Dec. 2010 I had acute withdrawal in Jan. 2011, horrible major wave in April 2011, minor wave in August/Sept. 2011. Then I was stable and felt functional until April 2012 came. In hindsight that last wave was probably no more intense than my previous ones, it's just that after feeling close to normal from Sept to March, I felt blindsided. I panicked and made the regretful decision to start an AD, of which now I am dealing with the consequences.

 

Just remember, like with your previous waves, things will improve over time. Try not to work yourself up. Take it easy and avoid making rash decisions.

2008: March, Klonopin .5 mg to 1 mg

2009: Dec, CT Klonopin

2010: full year heavy alcohol use

2011: Jan - withdrawals start

2012: Apr- bad wave, start zoloft 50

2014 to 2020: Switch ADs

Sertraline 100mgs >Lexapro 20 mgs>Prozac 20 mgs >Lexapro 20

2021: Sertraline 25 mgs

2022: Mar. Cut dose down to 12.5

End of May, starting to crash physically/mentally.

 

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On 6/4/2022 at 3:22 AM, Wanttofreemyself said:

The lingering anxiety and the waves and the miserable feeling is eating away at me. How long does it usually last?

I really hear you @Wanttofreemyself and feel the same myself as I am 18 months into this rabbithole. But I think what @tsranga said is essential to keep in mind; ‘Waves are a sign of a healing nervous system and keep reminding yourself of this.’ I find this really gives me hope.

History of depression and anxiety. Symptoms of PTSD.

1998-1999 Venlafaxine 2006-2007 Prozac. 2013-15 Sertraline 50mg. 2015 cross-tapered to citalopram 20mg. 2015-2021 Citalopram 20mg (brief increase to 30mg for 2/3 months in 2019.

01/2021 Dropped from 20mg to 10mg, back up to 20mg til June.

25/6/21 stopped CT. Started 50mg 5htp after a week without citalopram in the hope this would balance out my serotonin levels. After 3 days increased to 100mg 5htp.
11/7/21 Stopped 5htp with the intention of reinstating citalopram at 1mg.  

16/7/21 Reinstated cit at 1mg.

2/8/21 Increased dose to 2mg. 
28/11/21 10% reduction to 1.8mg.

8/12/21 2mg 6/1/22 1.8mg 10/2/22 1.6mg 13/5/22 1.5mg 4/6/22 1.55mg 4/7/22 1.4mg 4/8/22 1.25mg

Multiple unsuccessful previous attempts to taper off citalopram. Vegan, otherwise healthy lifestyle. Other medications; kliovance (HRT) Other supplements; magnesium glycinate, calcium, B12, vitD and vegan omega3. I use valerian and lemon balm tea for anxiety relief

Completely OFF booze (since 6/11/21) and caffeine (since July 21) now. Main symptoms; crushing depression, anhedonia/emotional anesthesia, irritability, rage, anxiety/fear, cognitive fog, inability to focus, restlessness and some insomnia

 

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11 hours ago, Kat66 said:

I really hear you @Wanttofreemyself and feel the same myself as I am 18 months into this rabbithole. But I think what @tsranga said is essential to keep in mind; ‘Waves are a sign of a healing nervous system and keep reminding yourself of this.’ I find this really gives me hope.

Thank you for your reply. I'm glad I'm healing since that post. I still have some lingering anxiety but it's when it's in the morning or when I think too much about anxiety I feel it. 

- Late 2011/Early 2012? - Started celexa 10mg.

- Sometime in 2012? - Due to doctors advice, jumped to 20mg. Not sure when but doctor suggested 40mg. Tried it for a bit, did not like it, felt flat and had low libido so doctor told me to go down to 30mg.

- Started skipping 1 day or 2 days sometimes due to forgetting and hated being on drugs, felt it was a hassle. It became routine to skip one day and only take it when I felt withdrawal symptoms kick in like dizziness. Always took one 20mg pill and broke the second pill in half.

- May 17 2022, finally talked to my doctor about tapering. Suggested I take 10 mg everyday. Tried taking only 10mg, started getting dizzy, took another half tablet, got horrible anxiety that night. Got scared, had to stop and reinstate back to 30mg that night.

- May 18 2022 discovered and joined survivingantidepressants.org (woozy head and impaired balance lasted 1 week)

- May 19 2022, began trying a reduction, (still skipping a day). Though had no scale so was inaccurately cutting my pills. No idea what dose I was taking, 25-27mg?

- May 25 2022, bought a mg scale and started to better measure my dose. Tried 10% reduction, 27mg. (still skipping a day)

- Ending of May was when I started having horrible anxiety

- June 1 2022, finally started 13.5mg dose 8:15am, and began taking my dose everyday now

- went to 13.7mg after a few weeks and still on it currently. Still taking my dose everyday

 

 

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I spoke too soon. Trying to nap after a day of work only to keep feeling anxiety rise when closing my eyes, it's pretty annoying

- Late 2011/Early 2012? - Started celexa 10mg.

- Sometime in 2012? - Due to doctors advice, jumped to 20mg. Not sure when but doctor suggested 40mg. Tried it for a bit, did not like it, felt flat and had low libido so doctor told me to go down to 30mg.

- Started skipping 1 day or 2 days sometimes due to forgetting and hated being on drugs, felt it was a hassle. It became routine to skip one day and only take it when I felt withdrawal symptoms kick in like dizziness. Always took one 20mg pill and broke the second pill in half.

- May 17 2022, finally talked to my doctor about tapering. Suggested I take 10 mg everyday. Tried taking only 10mg, started getting dizzy, took another half tablet, got horrible anxiety that night. Got scared, had to stop and reinstate back to 30mg that night.

- May 18 2022 discovered and joined survivingantidepressants.org (woozy head and impaired balance lasted 1 week)

- May 19 2022, began trying a reduction, (still skipping a day). Though had no scale so was inaccurately cutting my pills. No idea what dose I was taking, 25-27mg?

- May 25 2022, bought a mg scale and started to better measure my dose. Tried 10% reduction, 27mg. (still skipping a day)

- Ending of May was when I started having horrible anxiety

- June 1 2022, finally started 13.5mg dose 8:15am, and began taking my dose everyday now

- went to 13.7mg after a few weeks and still on it currently. Still taking my dose everyday

 

 

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Question, does the waves refer only to anxiety or depressive mood as well?

 

Sometimes I feel like I'm experiencing both like it's mixed together so it's hard to say if I'm feeling anxiety or depressive mood. Anyone knows what I'm talking about?

- Late 2011/Early 2012? - Started celexa 10mg.

- Sometime in 2012? - Due to doctors advice, jumped to 20mg. Not sure when but doctor suggested 40mg. Tried it for a bit, did not like it, felt flat and had low libido so doctor told me to go down to 30mg.

- Started skipping 1 day or 2 days sometimes due to forgetting and hated being on drugs, felt it was a hassle. It became routine to skip one day and only take it when I felt withdrawal symptoms kick in like dizziness. Always took one 20mg pill and broke the second pill in half.

- May 17 2022, finally talked to my doctor about tapering. Suggested I take 10 mg everyday. Tried taking only 10mg, started getting dizzy, took another half tablet, got horrible anxiety that night. Got scared, had to stop and reinstate back to 30mg that night.

- May 18 2022 discovered and joined survivingantidepressants.org (woozy head and impaired balance lasted 1 week)

- May 19 2022, began trying a reduction, (still skipping a day). Though had no scale so was inaccurately cutting my pills. No idea what dose I was taking, 25-27mg?

- May 25 2022, bought a mg scale and started to better measure my dose. Tried 10% reduction, 27mg. (still skipping a day)

- Ending of May was when I started having horrible anxiety

- June 1 2022, finally started 13.5mg dose 8:15am, and began taking my dose everyday now

- went to 13.7mg after a few weeks and still on it currently. Still taking my dose everyday

 

 

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2 hours ago, Wanttofreemyself said:

Question, does the waves refer only to anxiety or depressive mood as well?

 

Sometimes I feel like I'm experiencing both like it's mixed together so it's hard to say if I'm feeling anxiety or depressive mood. Anyone knows what I'm talking about?

 

Please read Post #1 of this topic which has a summary of comments from members.

 

A window is any time when you feel your symptom/s improve, a wave is when you feel your symptoms worsen, regardless of what that symptom is.

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq    Post 0 updates start here

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you.

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Is it common to still have debilitating horrible waves at 8.5 months out? It seems my waves are getting way worse each month and not better 😩

Immediate adverse reaction 

Lexapro 10mg- 6/10/2021

Lexapro 10mg- 7/10/2021

Lexapro 5mg- 8/10/2021

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8.5 months out is still early for waves to feel less debilitating. If I was back to that time I would work on my patience since I did not have enough of it. Thank God that he gave me much more persistance so I could make it through it.

3/2012 - sertralin 50 mg, no major side effects

1/2014 - ct sertralin 50 mg (tappered 3 weeks as doctor ordered)

7/2014 - back to sertalin 50 mg, no issues

4/2016 - ct sertralin 50 mg (tappered 3 weeks, my decision)

12/2016 - back to sertalin, major side effects from the first pill and the begginning of hell

2/2017 - mirtazepine 15 mg added for insomnia

6/2017 - stopped sertralin (2 months tapper)

9/2017 - stopped mirtazepine (3 weeks taper)

waves and windows

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8 minutes ago, persistente said:

8.5 months out is still early for waves to feel less debilitating. If I was back to that time I would work on my patience since I did not have enough of it. Thank God that he gave me much more persistance so I could make it through it.

I had an adverse reaction, I’m not in withdrawal. I’ve read most adverse reactions heal by 12-24 months. I thought by nearly 9 months I’d be feeling a lot better not way worse. 

Immediate adverse reaction 

Lexapro 10mg- 6/10/2021

Lexapro 10mg- 7/10/2021

Lexapro 5mg- 8/10/2021

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

Do the waves usually start 5-6 days after changing or reducing the dose?
I reduced the daily dose by 6-7% eight days ago
4-5 days was more or less tolerable.
I had very bad nightmares for 4 days at night.
I have also noticed before that the sleep gets very bad a couple of days before the wave. Just like a mini signal
Yesterday, on the 7th day, drowsiness-confusion and extreme anxiety started.
Total anxiety and high blood pressure today.
Are the hardest days about a week after tapering?
What to do with high blood pressure?

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     On 16.07.21 the daily dose was 19 mg     01.06.22  the daily dose of 11mg  I can make dose reductions less often, about every 6-8 weeks

 

                 

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53 minutes ago, Estman said:

Hi,

Do the waves usually start 5-6 days after changing or reducing the dose?
I reduced the daily dose by 6-7% eight days ago
4-5 days was more or less tolerable.
I had very bad nightmares for 4 days at night.
I have also noticed before that the sleep gets very bad a couple of days before the wave. Just like a mini signal
Yesterday, on the 7th day, drowsiness-confusion and extreme anxiety started.
Total anxiety and high blood pressure today.
Are the hardest days about a week after tapering?
What to do with high blood pressure?

This sounds spot on. That's how I experience symptoms after tapering. I only taper Lexapro at a rate of 2.5% a month and I still get withdrawal. It's always noticable at days 5-7 and last about a week or two.  I don't post as much since this platform is a little different. I'm still trying to figure it out. 

2001-2020 celexa 40mg

2020-present lexapro 20mg

2014-2020 klonopin 1.5 mg slower taper over a year

 

June 1, 2021- Started a 10% micro taper of Lexapro. 

July 5, 2021- Went up to 19 mg. Symptoms mostly went away. Plan to do a 5% monthly taper using brassmonkey slide scale.

August 2021- Stopped taper because I couldn't handle it. Resumed taking 20 mg of Lexapro

Sept 28th 2021 -started lexapro taper at 2% reduction using weighted scale 

Oct 1 2021- Massive headache and stomach felt like being twisted. Took 20 mg pill.

February 16 2022-Just started Taper again. Shaving off 2.5% of a 20mg pill.

July 6th 2022 - 17.6 mg of Lexapro. Tapered at 2.5% a month since February.

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