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The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization


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It can last much longer than a year but it supposed to speed up at some point. Its a true grind. I thought i was done with the tough waves. But a rough massage led me into my worst wave since the beginning. Patience is the key. Pain and waves is good I guess. It means healing is happening.

Was on 30mg (Lexapro) for 7-8yrs20mg for 3 months (This was my choice my Doc wanted me to drop much faster)15 mg 2week10mg 2 weeks 5 mg 1 week0 since August 24th . PPI Dexlant  30 mg taper has begun. Cutting 20% currently.  using zantac as needed.  Benzo is currently 0.10mg 

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Will I know if I'm experiencing a window? Will I feel like my old self? Or are the symptoms still there but just seem to calm down for a bit? Maybe I'm not giving the moments where they calm down a bit enough credit because I'm expecting to feel "normal" ?

Panic attacks-Prozac 20mg 4 years

Effexor 75mg approx 9 years

Effexor to Zoloft 25 mg approx almost 2 weeks

Also used very low dose of Valium 1 mg sometimes 2x a day for anxiety for a month during medication changes.

Zoloft to Celexa 10 mg approx a week

Celexa to Prozac 10 mg for approx 5 weeks

Weaned off Prozac 10-5-2.5 mg

As of 1-8-2016 off everything

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At first they're subtle.  I don't think you will feel like your old self in the early windows, but it's possible.  Enjoy those moments where you notice a little difference, they could be small windows.  

1996-2014 - 3mg Clonazepam - Started weaning off in 2010, took 4 years.  All is fine.

2010-2014 - 30mg - 180mg percocets per day.  Quit CT in 2014.  All is fine.

2010-2014 - Mixed in Suboxen while not on percs... 8mg-32mg per day.  Quit CT in 2014.  All is fine (I think)  Opiates don't fully work yet.

2015 - Quit smoking weed, all is fine.

2015- Stopped drinking, all is fine.

2015-  Stopped drinking coffee, all is fine.

2010-2014 - 10mg of Lexapro for first 2 years, then 15mg for another 2 years

Quit over 3 week period - still experiencing bad withdrawal, but very slowly getting better... too slow.  

9/4/2015 - Reinstated 1mg liquid Lexapro.  So far, it's not helping... maybe hurting but not sure yet.

9/5/2015 - Stopped the 1mg, made it worse.  I will ride it out, currently drug free.

 

"The harder the battle, the sweeter the victory"

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  • 1 month later...

New to this thread but have been on this horrid journey since last April. Anyway, has anyone heard of the book, The Mood Cure by Julia Ross (she's an M.D.) ? In her book she talks abut how she has gotten people off medications with "virtually no side effects" by taking supplements, a change of diet, and exercise. I just started reading her book now.

Current meds: Escitalopram

Was put on 20mg Lexapro for 4 years; was at 18mg for ~1 week.

4/19/15: 15mg; WD symptoms include: loss of appetite, weight loss, nausea and indigestion after eating, diarrhea, and anxiety. Most of these happen at night.

6/5/15: 13mg; WD symptoms include: tiredness/lightheadedness, indigestion, numbness (emotionally)

7/6/15: 11mg --> 7/10/14: 11.7mg (wanted to taper by 10%)

8/10/15: 10mg; WD symptoms include: anxiety, nausea, GI upset, headaches

9/1/15: bumped back to 10.5mg (back to tapering by 10%); 10/5/15: back to 10mg

11/8: down to 9mg: feeling depressed so far ---> 11/16: bumped back to 10mg :(

1/23: back to 9mg; headaches, "motion sickness" feeling, anxiety

3/24: 8.5mg; 5/24: 8mg; nausea and dizziness bumped back to 8.5mg 3/26 :(

 

blog: https://offwithyourmeds.wordpress.com

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Not everybody fits into the 'usual' patterns.  There is so much room for variation in w/d, so we do have people here for whom it takes longer to see a window - especially if they have had more drugs, more changes and higher doses (as you have). 

 

Can you direct your energy into embracing ways of managing your depression?  The symptoms forum has a lot of ideas. 

 

You'll get there George, it just takes the time it takes.

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

My story of healing:ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor; please do your own research and be able to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

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I'm intrigued by something SquirrellyGirl posted in an intro thread:

We do know for many that there seems to be bad waves [after the last dose] that come up somewhere around 3,6,9,11 months...

I've been dealing with trichotillomania (compulsive hair pulling) since my mid-teen years. If I recall correctly, I once read that after stopping or being "pull-free", waves of urges to recommence pulling arrive at similar times.

Hmm. <emoji for scratching my chin>

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

baffled: Waves and windows occur with all symptoms, emotional and physical.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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  • Moderator Emeritus

There can be many things affecting a person post-taper.  Our brain has been affected, our gut, our emotions.  Healing has happened, but some of the finer points are still working themselves out - so there still needs to be care given to ourselves. 

 

Finding approaches that can help you continue on a healing path is a good idea:  Melt into your own life and It Gets Better:  Living Well While Being Sick are two good places to start.

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

My story of healing:ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor; please do your own research and be able to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

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I have been wondering for awhile now how does it feel in the end of the withdrawal? We always hear people having short lived good windows and long exhausting waves in the acute stages of withdrawal. But I do wonder how does recovery looks like in the end of the withdrawal process? Is it that you have very long good window and then a shorter bad wave! And then after the window is even longer and the waves are shorter and shorter? I have been experiencing longer good periods- the last one lasted three months, and then the new bad wave came over me and this one is not loosening its grip on me yet, it's been three weeks. I hope that one day i won't be afraid to look into the future and feel sad in anticipation of a bad wave. Better yet I hope my body and mind will be predictable and I will learn my old self again.

 

Good energy to all

Nov 2013 - July 2015 - 2 years on 10 mg of CIPRALEX 

"weaned off" in 2 months even though doctor said I can quit in 2 weeks (haha) 

No physical withdrawal symptoms 

Emotional anxiety, depression withdrawal since August 2015. On and off 

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  • 4 weeks later...
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Have any of you that have experienced a "window" have a period with no symptoms at all? I mean did you wake up in day and you felt completely normal?

 

Yes, this is what windows are like for me. Unfortunately, I've had very few of them and it took quite a long time before I experienced my first multi-day window like this. Waking up in the morning and feeling completely normal.... refreshed, enthusiastic about the day, relaxed and symptom free, is what signals a window for me now.

 

Until I had one of these symptom free windows, I thought a window was a period where symptoms were less intense, basically still feeling sick, but not in a wave. For the first part of my recovery process I was cycling between a slowly rising baseline and regular waves, where my symptoms would revert to an earlier level of intensity. But then I experienced several days in a row of feeling completely recovered, completely symptom free, like I'd had a miraculous recovery overnight.... but symptoms returned, which was confusing and very hard to accept after feeling completely normal and able to function like I used to.

 

Since this first real multi-day window, I've had two more. The longest one lasted 11 days. For me, they are often followed by a decline into a fairly severe wave until I come back again to a slightly improved baseline.

 

The best thing for me about these complete recovery type windows is that I get to experience evidence that my brain and nervous system is still capable of functioning normally, so its probably just a matter of more time before I'm able to sustain the normal state permanently.

 

The worst thing is having my 'recovery' cruelly snatched away after such a short time and I'm once again forced to accept that I have no control over the slow progress of this healing process.

 

Not everyone experiences windows and waves, but a significant majority seem to have this pattern develop as they recover.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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The windows do increase gradually in length and frequency. Eventually you're in a fairly permanent window with just a few ripples every now and then. Just enough to remind you of where you have been and what you have come through. All of this is temporary.

Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014

 

                                                  Psych Drug - free since May 2014
.
         

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  • 1 month later...

My windows and waves come in moments. Not in days or weeks like I read here. Some days I feel good most part of the time and some days I have waves like 2 or 3 times a day lasting mainly 30 min/1 hour..but there is not pattern. Sometimes a wave can even last for few seconds or minutes. At the moment, It is mainly related to the head. Head pressure/pain and dreaming sensation.

 

When I feel a wave is approaching I just put some songs in headphones and it is all gone.. like magic..or when my husband makes a massage.. Because of that I have the hope I can control them somehow.. But the problem is: IT COMES BACK!!.. and sometimes I doubt if one day they will stop to come completely.. 

 

It is like someone is punching you in face constantly and you know how to deal.. you don't suffer.. you manage..you have peace.. This is great.. BUT we get tired to feel the pain again in some moments. Sometimes you loose your patience for been hitting in your face so many times..

 

But I am giving some time to my brain.. I believe in healing

 

Thank you!    

                                                                        :( Diagnosed: Generalized Anxiety Disorder

 

2013: 09 months on Paxil 20 mg increased to 30 mg, Xanax 1 mg (0.5 mg in the morning, 0.5 mg in the night)

Mid-2013: Stopped xanax after a fast taper (conventional way)

October 2013: Stopped Paxil fast taper (conventional way): symptoms kept getting worse, anxiety and panic came back after 03 months  :wacko:

January 2014: Started Lexapro 10 mg and Xanax XR 1mg.

Mid-2014: Cross tapered Xanax XR to Valium.

June 2014: tapper Valium - 10% every 2 weeks.

June 2015: tapper Lexapro - 10% every 2 weeks.

March 20, 2016:  Finished tapering Lexapro OFF MEDICINE 

 

 

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I guess a more simplified way of asking would be, can you undo recovery with too much stress, drama and binge eating, or does it just throw the"table" off balance every time? I seem to get conflicting answers but i guess i need to learn not to keep seeking the answer, these neuro emotions are making me obsess over this.

2009: Put on Fluoxetine (20mg) and Risperdal (0.5mg) for OCD. Dose was increased a few weeks later to 40mg Fluoxetine and 1mg Risperdal.

2011: Began experiencing Depersonalisation and Visual Snow, general loss of energy and breast growth. Was kept on 40mg Fluoxetine until Late Dec 2015. Risperdal dosage varied and was kept on 0.5mg for a long while before Nov 2015.

Early Sep 2015: Began having symptoms of extreme anxiety, psychosis and hot flushes due to mixing illegal drugs.

Late Nov 2015: Psych doc raised Risperdal to 8mg. Began having severe and hellish Akathisia. Was kept being given Diazepam to cope.

Early Dec 2015: Began seeing a new psych doc who tapered me off Risperdal over a period of a few weeks and put me onto Quetiapine.

Late Dec 2015: Quick tapered off of everything due to little guidance.

Mid March 2016: Reinstated Fluoxetine (5mg), dose was increased to 10mg a couple of weeks later. Gave me restless legs and stopped taking immediately (RLS was unbearable).

10 May 2016: Unsuccessful Fluoxetine reinstatement at 1mg. Drug free since May 2016.

 

Diet (When Able): Low carb and sugar, high fat & dark greens. medium protein and fruit. Taking 100mg magnesium, 1000mg omega 3, 0.25mg Melatonin daily,. Drinking at least one mug of chamomile a day. Weekly Light exercise. Meditating daily and practising mindfulness.

 

"Come back to square one, just the minimum bare bones. Relaxing with the present moment, relaxing with hopelessness, relaxing with death, not resisting the fact that things end, that things pass, that things have no lasting substance, that everything is changing all the time—that is the basic message." – Pema Chodron

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Those things can be destabilizing but they don't send you back to the start, like one of those rotten long snakes in Snakes & Ladders. Or using the metaphor you've chosen, one could say that stress, drama, and stress eating knock out that wedge of wadded paper somebody put under a table leg to keep it level and stable.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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  • 2 weeks later...

Has anyone who is in withdrawal and currently med free experienced having their memory improve, only to have it worsen later on?

Took Prozac  (generic Fluoxetine) 10 mg for 4.5 months. First and only psych med. Stopped cold turkey. Been in protracted withdrawal for 2 years since I stopped ssri.

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TweetyRose - what you describe is exactly the pattern of windows and waves.

 

See also: Delayed onset of symptoms .

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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I don't know if my experience typically follows the windows and waves pattern. I tend to get stressed or "rattled" as I call it by external events which then set of a cascade of stress responses in my body - this Is manifested almost entirely by serious muscle tension in my body. This tension will last in my body for days until I remove it either by going for a swim (sometimes will require a few sessions) or having a massage. While the tension remains in my body, no amount of positive thinking will improve my mood, it will remain low until I expunge the tension from my body. There's a strong reciprocal relationship between the body and mind I find.

This I can relate to.

 

If I am in a window, and I get hit with stress......then that stress will "trigger" a wave of back to back symptoms/or a number of concurrent symptoms. I have experienced this "trigger" effect twice now since reinstating this time last year.

 

It's like a bomb going off in my CNS.

 

As we haven't had the money coming in, I haven't been able to get to an osteopath to reduce the muscle tension in my body, so it's remained there; and I have remained in pain. The mind/body correlation is spot on.

Dose History: 19 Feb 2014 - Escitalopram 10mg daily June 2015 - Started taper, 5mg every other day July 2015 - 5mg every 2 days August 2015 - 5mg every 3 days September 2015 - 5mg every 4 days Sept 14th - Completed tapering, but at 7 weeks "drug free" I suffered serious WD symptoms as a consequence of "incorrect" tapering. Nov 25 2015 - Re-instated Cipralex @ 2.5mg daily. WD symptoms faded. Held at this dose and experienced "windows and waves". 12 Oct 2017 Reduced dose to 1.25mg. 13 Mar 2018 Reduced dose to 0.625mg (approx.). 16 April 2018 0mg. Windows and waves triggered by stress (IBS/reflux, headaches, sinus issues) Aug 2019 Mirena coil fitted 6 Jan 2020 MAJOR Wave hit 19 months following last dose (protracted WD).  Symptoms listed below Mar 2020 Mirena coil removal.

Therapy: Nov 15th 2016 Re-started therapy Jan 19th 2017 Started CBT Dec 2017 Started listening to Hypnotherapy CD (self-esteem). Nov 2019 Started couples therapy.

Supplements: "Bioglan" Biotic Balance Ultimate Flora 10 billion CFU, live Bacteria, Probiotic, suitable for Vegetarians, with Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Rhamnosus, Bifidobacterium Longum"Pukka" Vitalise a unique blend of 30 energising botanicals.

Diet: 16 April 2018 Detox cleanse / anti-candida for 90 days. Jan 2020 Started "small plate" diet (i.e child size portions).

Exercise: Stretching, Yoga, Pilates, Spinning, Elliptical/upper body workout, walking.

Medical Test Results: 4 Jan 2017 Homeopathic Treatment starts 24 Feb 2017 Started weight loss program 24 Mar 2017 Naturopathic Treatment + anti-Candida diet started due to suspected Candida Related Complex (CRC). DETOXED for 7 weeks to "re-set" gut. April 2017 "Genova Diagnostics" Comprehensive Stool Analysis NEGATIVE; Full Blood Count (Normal) / Blood Cholesterol: 5.6 (Borderline) / Blood Sugar (Normal) / 28 Jun 2017 FSH 8.2 / 14 Nov 2017 FSH 17.7 Dec 2017 Blood Cholesterol: 3.9 (Normal) / Kidney Function (Normal) / Blood Sugar (Normal). December 2017 "Genova Diagnostics" Food panel allergy (bloodwork) analysis - a few "VERY LOW/VL" allergens; Mar 2018 "Genova Diagnostics" SIBO urine analysis: High Level of Yeast/fungal markers found in small intestine but NO SIBO.  April 2018 Thyroid (Normal) / Full Blood Count (Normal) / FSH (Normal). 16 April 2018 Started anti-Candida diet - 3 month protocol.   25 March 2020 All test results "Normal". CRP" 5 mg/L (normal range to 0-5 mg/L).

Symptoms:  Flu-like symptoms, anxiety, anhedonia, sinus headaches right-side (severe), IBS issues/reflux (severe)**, tinnitus, fatigue, inner tremor, nausea, chills/hot flushes, pounding heart, muscular issues including stiff left hip flexor, intense anger, PSSD (ongoing).  **Histhamine intolerance (suspected).

Major Life Events: 

Re-located to UK from Canada: Jan 2016

My father died: 5:05pm, Monday 5 Feb 2018 Last Lexapro dose: 16 April 2018 (its now been over a year since I quit ADs)  Moved house: Friday 23rd February 2018  "Divorced" toxic Mother: Monday 26 March 2018 Starting working again: 19 November 2018  Diagnosed with: 5th August 2021 PTSD/C-PTSD Diagnosed with: March 2022 Interstitial Cystitis (IC)/Painful bladder syndrome

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Hey guys. So I just joined this week, and I've actually been feeling pretty good the last few days. Here's how I feel exactly, if you guys have any feedback or have experienced something similar please let me know. I'm having trouble distinguishing if I'm in a window or a wave or if I'm nearing the end of withdrawal. All through my withdrawal ( about 7 months since my first attempt at stopping CT, then trying a few medications to try and stabilize, before a fast taper off a different medicine) I've felt cloudy and just not myself. Suffering horribly, I'm sure you guys know the feelings. Slowly my symptoms have gotten better and then finally about Wednesday, I suddenly felt... clear headed. Ive had a lot of general anxiety, and I've had two or three panic attacks, but overall SO much better than how Ive felt the last few months. I'm wondering if I'm through the worst of my withdrawal, and if I'm just dealing with how I'm "supposed" to feel (without any drugs) or if this is just a window and the panic attacks are happening as a start of the next wave??? I haven't had a true panic attack in probably a month before this week, even with my withdrawal, and I've felt so much better that I really thought I might have been getting through it. Maybe I'm in the last stage of withdrawal, which is dealing with panic attacks and general anxiety like a normal human? I guess what im looking for is for some people who have survived and gotten through the withdrawals to describe what it felt like when they were done and if it was similar at all to what I'm experiencing. Sorry for the long venting post, it's pretty late here and I just got over a panic attack so I'm a little frazzled.

2.5 years of citalopram, about 6 months of trying various antidepressants, taper for 4 weeks, off everything since September 2016

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I realize this is very long winded and kind of goes in circles haha I'm sorry. Let me ask my question in a simple way- how do I know if I'm still going withdrawals and the panic attacks are just symptoms of withdrawal, or if I'm finally starting to pull out of my withdrawal and my panic attacks are just a byproduct of getting to my "normal" state again. Sorry again guys I'm new to this !

2.5 years of citalopram, about 6 months of trying various antidepressants, taper for 4 weeks, off everything since September 2016

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This post might help.  And the final line in this post:

 

"It's up to you to decide whether your body and brain are behaving "normally" as they did before you tried medication, or if you are feeling differently. No one else, not even a doctor, can determine this."

 

And here is another discussion:  which-me-is-the-real-me

Edited by ChessieCat
Added quote from post

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq    Post 0 updates start here

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you.

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I am no expert apart from having experienced and suffered, since 1977, most of the feelings described on this forum.  Like you, I came here to find answers and good advice, and it keeps me going.

 

I believe that having the sharper, brighter feelings, perhaps with some enthusiasm for doing stuff, is almost the way we are meant to be.  Close to normal, if you like.

 

The trouble is that when the flight or fight symptoms become overwhelming and prolonged, we are liable to become ill.  The mechanism is too supercharged.  Blame the ECU in a motor car, and the brain in we humans.

 

ChessieCat's words are the standard, but wise sound reply to be got here.  Sometimes we have to figure out a bit for ourselves, and that is one of the main problems for all of us.

 

If there was a ready answer, millions of us would already be back to wellness.

 

Anyway, I should make the most of the lift and alertness returning, monitor it and act accordingly with what advice you can glean from the vast pool of knowledge on here.  It really is the best place, I would say. 

 

Many of us can relate to your dilemma.  You will probably agree it is good to find somewhere that people will know how your confusing emotions are troubling you.

 

We are with you, and hope for some relief for you.

 

Best wishes!

Born 1945. 

1999 - First Effexor/Venlafaxine

2016 Withdrawal research. Effexor.  13Jul - 212.5mg;  6Aug - 200.0mg;  24Aug - 187.5mg;  13Sep - 175.0mg;  3Oct - 162.5mg;  26Oct - 150mg 

2017  9Jan - 150.00mg;  23Mar - 137.50mg;  24Apr - 125.00mg;  31May - 112.50mg holding;  3Sep - 100.00mg;  20Sep - 93.75mg;  20Oct - 87.5mg;  12Nov - 81.25mg;  13 Dec - 75.00mg

2018  18Jan - 69.1mg; 16Feb - 62.5mg; 16March - 57.5mg (-8%); 22Apr - 56.3mg(-2%); CRASHED - Updose 29May - 62.5mg; Updose - 1Jul - 75.0mg. Updose - 2Aug - 87.5mg. Updose - 27Aug - 100.0mg. Updose - 11Oct 112.5mg. Updose - 6Nov 125.00mg

2019 Updoses 19 Jan - 150.0mg. 1April - 162.5mg. 24 April - Feeling better - doing tasks, getting outside.  7 May - usual depression questionnaire gives "probably no depression" result.

Supps/Vits  Omega 3;  Chelated Magnesium;  Prebiotics/Probiotics, Vit D3. 

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Thanks so much for the responses. I had 3 days of feeling awesome and back to normal and now I feel a little worse. Still an improvement!

2.5 years of citalopram, about 6 months of trying various antidepressants, taper for 4 weeks, off everything since September 2016

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Getting accustomed to the windows and waves pattern of recovery can take a while and be quite confusing at first. Every time I felt a bit better or had no symptoms, I was almost certain I was recovered. So when symptoms returned, it was always a shock. 

 

Your experience sounds like the normal windows and waves kind of pattern. Hang in there, you are going to get better.

 

This thread will probably be merged with the windows and waves thread soon.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

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VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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I'm also new to this as well so it's hard for me to say for sure. I think it's still the wave and window (but like I said i'm new at this so I could be wrong). On a positive note, you are definitely getting better as ypu notice less of the symptoms. So hold onto that, maybe even write it down when you have a hard day.

I've noticed that even though I still have the waves and windows it seems to be shifting. Like less of the irrational anger (though there are some of those times still) and more of the crying bouts. It really is weird how the body goes through such things during withdrawals. So hang in there and feel free to ask any questions on here. We are all in this together!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Is it possible to after almost a year, to hit a wave that is very hard! I have hit something, with anxiety etc. can't be around anybody at the moment, is bedridden all day, and my heart i pounding all day too and many other things, this wave is as bad as in the beginning  maybe even worse, so im worried! Is this possible after almost a year?? I can't funktion.

2010 - 2015: 50mg Sertraline, 30mg Mirtazapine.

2015 - 2016: Last dose Mirtazapine 28.11.2015 and Sertraline 04.01.2016. (6 months taper)

2016/June: 6 months off. Feeling better but a lot of symptoms, name one and i have it.

2016/Dec: 12 months off. Hit a very bad wave, can't function at this moment, isolate and many intense symptoms. Very intense heart palpitations and very intense anxiety.

2017/June: 18 months off. Things are better, experiencing a lot of flashbacks, walking everyday.

2017/Nov: Things have finally started to improve and i'm now much better than a year ago, starting to feel a lot of improvements, but still symptoms that come in waves and windows.  

2018/June: Feeling better. Starting to do some normal things again, but still some improvements needed. All symptoms still there, just less intense.

2018/Oct: Almost 3 years off. Symptoms are milder and more manageable, but lots of anger issues at the moment. Still some depersonalization etc. Heart palpitations almost gone. There's hope.

2021/april: 5 years and 3 months off. Symptoms less intense, but still struggling, still not able to socialize much, very tired, i just want to feel normal again. In a tough and awful wave.

 

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Girl from D. I hate to hear you have hit a tough wave. From what I've read, this is definitely possible. CNS doesn't heal for a long time and stressful events can trigger symptoms. Did you have any stressful events happen to cause the wave of anxiety? 

2009 - 10/2014: 40MG Citalopram

10/2014: Started taper by liquid titration by about 5% every few weeks (1000 times harder than Benzo taper)

1/26/17: 3.5 MG

3/12/2017: 2.9 MG

12/06/2017: Finished my taper

12/24/2018: took a amino acid called L-Theanine in May, which made my symptoms  far worse and 7 months later, I'm still feeling the negative effects. My symptoms are about the same as they were when I finished my taper a year ago. 

 

2009 - 10/2012: 2 MG of Klonopin 

10/2012: Hit tolerance and began taper

12/2013: Finished liquid titration taper (less than 10% every few weeks)

Experienced protracted withdrawal and was about 80% healed by 10/14 when I started my citalopram taper. 

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Yes i was going to celebrate christmas with my family but i got some panic attacks (i do that when theres a lot of family) and had to get away home, so i actually didnt celebrate chrismas at all. But this thing i feel like have been building up since last month, this wave feels like those i the beginning. Do i have to start all over again, or can i continue where i was when this is over? This is very hard. Could this take very long? I just hope not.

2010 - 2015: 50mg Sertraline, 30mg Mirtazapine.

2015 - 2016: Last dose Mirtazapine 28.11.2015 and Sertraline 04.01.2016. (6 months taper)

2016/June: 6 months off. Feeling better but a lot of symptoms, name one and i have it.

2016/Dec: 12 months off. Hit a very bad wave, can't function at this moment, isolate and many intense symptoms. Very intense heart palpitations and very intense anxiety.

2017/June: 18 months off. Things are better, experiencing a lot of flashbacks, walking everyday.

2017/Nov: Things have finally started to improve and i'm now much better than a year ago, starting to feel a lot of improvements, but still symptoms that come in waves and windows.  

2018/June: Feeling better. Starting to do some normal things again, but still some improvements needed. All symptoms still there, just less intense.

2018/Oct: Almost 3 years off. Symptoms are milder and more manageable, but lots of anger issues at the moment. Still some depersonalization etc. Heart palpitations almost gone. There's hope.

2021/april: 5 years and 3 months off. Symptoms less intense, but still struggling, still not able to socialize much, very tired, i just want to feel normal again. In a tough and awful wave.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've maybe had maybe 2 windows since this almost 4 months off lexapro started . Previous waves I was able to deal with eventually but what I'm going through now is the worst . Feel like a stranger to myself , kinda feel like I'm in a dream , have anxiety about going anywhere. Pretty much lost interest in almost everything except for the withdrawals I'm going through , everything seems a lil strange to me . And in previous waves I still felt kinda like myself but now seems like my emotions n thinking is completely gone or pretty off . Pretty much feel like my personality n what makes me me is gone . Anyone else have a wave like this and get through it . I know waves are temporary but this has gone on for a lil over a week now n it worries me

Was put on Zoloft 15mg 1/17/2016 after I had my first panic attack I believe due to excessive drinking mostly .

 

Quit Zoloft 4/16 due to side effects and was put on lexapro 10mg

 

Quit lexapro 10 mg due to side effects 8/16

 

I don't want to reinstate any drug

 

Started citalopram 10mg 1/10/17

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  • 3 months later...

How do you know if you are in a wave or wd symptoms from a decrease of a micro taper?

Also after a wave can one go back to the state one was prior to wave? I had been slowly getting better before this deep depression hit me again.

Started Effexor August 2012 Sept'12-150mg=extreme anxiety Oct'12 cut half-75mg severe wds

Feb 2013 68.5mg. Mar'13- 65mg. Apr'13-59mg. May'13-57mg. June '13-52mg Aug'13 49.75mg.

Sep'13-48.75. Nov'13-47mg Dec'13-45..5mg

May 2014 42mg. Jun'14 40mg (depressive mood started). Aug'14 -40mg/ started brintellix 2.5mg

Oct '14 -39 Nov'14 36.89 Dec'14 34.45

Jan 2015- 31 Feb'15 29mg. Mar'15 26.72. Apr'15 24.48. May'15 22.31mg. Jun'15 20.30mg

Aug'15-18.89. Oct'15 16.96. Nov/16- 16.10. Dec/15- 15mg

Jan 2016-14.22. May'16 11.45. Aug'16-9.60. Sep/16- 8.88mg. Oct/16- 8.39mg. Nov/16- 8.13. Dec/16- 7.89

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What do people do when a HUGE anxiety wave hits? Mine was so bad this mroning that I almost woke my wife to take me to the ER. But what would they do for me there but give me some meds? What help would that be? Sure, I might get an in-the-moment relief from them, but wouldn't I just have put myself back on the merry-go-round?

 

SJ

Main thread: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/14472-shakeyjerr-say-hello/

History: Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003. Ended up back on after 4 months because taking a beta-blocker caused immediate depression (just 2 doses - turned out I didn't even need it; I had no other withdrawal symptoms - I might have ended up med and withdrawal-free otherwise :(). - Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) in 2010. - Did a self-taper during 2016. - Developed Discontinuation Syndrome 02/17.

Supplements: Magnesium-Glycinate 400mg split into 4 100mg doses throughout the day. Vitamin C 500mg - once per day. Fish Oil 1360 mg (950 mg Active Omega-3) - twice per day.

I'm not a doctor. I use the internet, experience, and trial & error. Seek medical advice if necessary.

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Anyone withdrawing slowly from Effexor had one of those big windows where you suspect:

i - you are being a bit manic

ii - getting involved with lots of projects and doing stuff and relishing it

ii - maybe talking too much?

 

Since my last reduction (-9.1%) a few days ago to 125mg Effexor, I have felt that way.  We may move house, so adrenaline is flowing and it is not depressing me, but stimulating me to do a lot of decluttering (after 40 years in this house).

Maybe this is a flavour of what I should be like?

I suspect not.

I do remember feeling this way about 10 years ago when I dropped to nil Effexor after reducing the dose steeply and not the way SA advises, but with the oft reported "feeling fine during withdrawal" experience.

I was hit by crunching WD and soon ended back up at 150mg, then more.

 

I now know to stall reduction if feeling bad, but what if you feel more up?

Born 1945. 

1999 - First Effexor/Venlafaxine

2016 Withdrawal research. Effexor.  13Jul - 212.5mg;  6Aug - 200.0mg;  24Aug - 187.5mg;  13Sep - 175.0mg;  3Oct - 162.5mg;  26Oct - 150mg 

2017  9Jan - 150.00mg;  23Mar - 137.50mg;  24Apr - 125.00mg;  31May - 112.50mg holding;  3Sep - 100.00mg;  20Sep - 93.75mg;  20Oct - 87.5mg;  12Nov - 81.25mg;  13 Dec - 75.00mg

2018  18Jan - 69.1mg; 16Feb - 62.5mg; 16March - 57.5mg (-8%); 22Apr - 56.3mg(-2%); CRASHED - Updose 29May - 62.5mg; Updose - 1Jul - 75.0mg. Updose - 2Aug - 87.5mg. Updose - 27Aug - 100.0mg. Updose - 11Oct 112.5mg. Updose - 6Nov 125.00mg

2019 Updoses 19 Jan - 150.0mg. 1April - 162.5mg. 24 April - Feeling better - doing tasks, getting outside.  7 May - usual depression questionnaire gives "probably no depression" result.

Supps/Vits  Omega 3;  Chelated Magnesium;  Prebiotics/Probiotics, Vit D3. 

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to Do strong emotions cause waves or are they caused by waves?
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