Sujema: Effexor withdrawal, 10 days, multiple symptoms, suicidal thoughts.

[Sujema]

Fresh,

Thanks, but how do you delete a post??

I don't have to. 'Quote ' to address a particular person , right?

Should I just use the quick Post?

Can only see the one MammaP quote.

[mammaP]

Absolutely heaps better Sujema, my memory is much better, I can remember my kids names now and can get out and about. 

I have other medical problems that I suffer with but the side effects from the effexor have diminished greatly. I wouldn't say done 100% but I can cope with the little there is, for me that is insomnia and once I am off altogether I think that may improve too.  Some withdrawal waves still pop up occasionally but nothing I can't cope with now.  I know with certainty that I am so much better and will be fine once I am off effexor and the pain meds I have to take. which also have side effects but different. My BP is normal, I've been able to come off BP meds and my cholesterol has dropped from. I have also been able to stop the meds for gastric problems caused by drugs and rarely need the antacid medicine for heartburn.  

 

As the dose got lower while tapering I felt the side effects ebbing away, I just wish I had found this site before starting my taper, I would have been off now and not had to suffer the withdrawal, but hindsight is a wonderful thing !

[mammaP]

Sujema, I hid 2 posts that were duplicated, you have 1 hour to edit posts but I think only mods can hide them, and only admin can delete them. 

[Sujema]

MammaP ,

That is so great to hear. :-) Really gives me hope !

[JanCarol]

Sujema, how are you doing?  

 

It looks like you decided not to reinstate - though if you are still in strife, you are still in a good window to reinstate a tiny tiny amount.

 

I understand you don't want any more of the "poison," but as Rhiannon said, a tiny 4-5 bead amount will not be as toxic, and will help with symptoms.

 

However, maybe you are starting to move through it?  Have you had windows?  If you've had windows, that means your brain is healing, and coming into balance.  Where there is one window, there is bound to be another - you won't know when or for how long - but be sure to appreciate it when you do!

 

Let us know how you are going?

[westcoast]

Sulema, your question about withdrawal versus relapse is a good one. Do you feel as you did before you started on antidepressants? Different? Better or worse? Many of us, including me, experience a despair and gloom that is cosmic in scope, not attached to any real world issues, and unrelenting (for a time). For me, this is not like anything I called depression in the past.

[Sujema]

Westcoast,

Prior to having been prescribed Effexor, I had experienced depression from a very young age. A traumatic childhood event, the catalyst, (as I know now, set me up with a particular stress response), for others resulted in PTSD. I really rode those waves of depression with nothing more than St Johns Wort.

My brother's death, and another huge life change, was the proverbial 'straw', which prompted me to seek 'Professional ' help, and hence the Effexor. I guess my nervous system was no longer able to cope.

 

Your question, Westcoast, "is the depression different now"? Yes I feel it, the despair and fear washes over me now out of the blue, as you described, but I cannot tell if it is my 'broken' mental state or Anti.withdrawal. ????

It's a case of life is not good on it....or off it.

 

I am trying to focus on the little windows of 'light', attention to supporting my physical health, and a belief in the brains ability to heal. I have to believe that......

I don't know where I would be without the help of you amazing people......so generous, amidst your own challenges.

[mammaP]

We have a topic called Withdrawal or relapse? You will find it interesting and can add to it if you like. 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1587-is-it-relapse-or-withdrawal/

 

You are describing withdrawal perfectly, but we do have to remember that when withdrawal is past we have to learn new ways to deal with our stress and come to terms with our past so we don't fall into the trap f thinking we need 'fixing' with drugs, as Rhi mentions in that thread. 

[peggy]

Hi Sujema,

 

I can so relate to your situation because i have been there with effexor too.  In the end i had to reinstate because i was afraid of going back to the place where i was when i first went on effexor.  I am probably the slowest learner on this site - i feel so good so hurry up too much and then crash.  After my latest crash i have had 2 years of solid stability and am about to start another 10% taper - i was going every 3 weeks last time, this time will be every 4 or 5 weeks. I think for me it has a cumulative effect.

 

You have done a very, very quick reduction - from 75 to nothing in 2 months.  My advice (for what it is worth) would be to reinstate back to 37.5mg and wait the time to stabilise (maybe 3 or 4 weeks) and then do a strict 10% taper every 4 weeks.

 

Seeing you are in Oz are you using capsules with the beads inside? - you can open them and count them out.

 

blessings to you

[mammaP]

Peggy, thanks for chipping in with your experience. We recommend very low doses for reinstating, 1mg to start with. If it is tolerated but not enough it can be increased if needed. After some time off  the nervous system can become sensitive to the drug and not tolerate high doses. Sujema also had bad side effects and will need to go low so as to avoid them.  I reinstated and am glad that I did, it has been a journey of windows and waves but better than protracted withdrawal! 

[Sujema]

MammaP and Peggy,

Thank you for your input and support. :-)

[westcoast]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply to my question. These waves of despair need a scientific name. I have seem very few people here say they are similar to any depressive episodes they had in the past. It's another world. I'm committed to staying alive, but it is very hard some days. My sense of there being a future has been erased. I wonder if w/d does something specific to your brain, like wipe out the feeling of "hope," which is what gets most people through the day.

[Sujema]

Westcoast,

I can completely relate to " not having hope or sense of a future ", as being a possible result of the withdrawal. I have had lucid periods, prior to the Med, where I clearly envisioned the Possibility at least ,...of a 'happy' productive future.

I think the nature of the symptoms such as, headaches, insomnia fatigue etc, keeps a person fairly immobilised....without that 'zest' for life, and less likely to engage.

The inability to confide your deepest fears, and experiences with family seems to compound the isolation.

I have seen examples of people healing from the most critical head trauma, and the benefit of meditation on neuro plasticity, and I will endeavour to draw on all resources I can. I am determined not to allow Pharm. greed, Medical disinterest and ignorance, to rob me of the precious gift of life.

I wrote a list of all the things that have ever brought me joy.....smell of fresh cut grass, morning sun on trees, particular music, art, etc,etc....and plan to focus on those more.

 

I can't emphasis how much the "Acceptance and Calming Exercise video" in the Symptom and Care forum is helping me. It is a 20 minute gift to myself. Her voice is incredibly soothing,..,. Like laying in a warm bath while someone massages your head, more importantly, when the symptoms are overwhelming , it is teaching me not to fight them.

Take care <<>>

[peggy]

Peggy, thanks for chipping in with your experience. We recommend very low doses for reinstating, 1mg to start with. If it is tolerated but not enough it can be increased if needed. After some time off  the nervous system can become sensitive to the drug and not tolerate high doses. Sujema also had bad side effects and will need to go low so as to avoid them.  I reinstated and am glad that I did, it has been a journey of windows and waves but better than protracted withdrawal! 

 

i am aware of the low dose re -instating and just going back to the dose you last felt stable at,  however, in this case because Sujema did BIG drops and quickly she hasn't had time to accommodate to lower doses anyway - the faster she becomes stable, the less time her nervous system is in distress.  

[Fresh]

Hi Sujema ,     I was looking for something else , and found an article by David Healy where he discusses how to tell the difference between

withdrawal and the return of a depressive condition.  It's an excellent article. 

Search for     David Healy , Dependence on Antidepressants and Halting SSRI's   on benzos.org

 

xxx

[Sujema]

Thanks Fresh, I'll check out the David Healy article. <<>>

[Sujema]

Fresh,

Thank you for the reference to the David Healy article. It clarified my questions regarding withdrawal V relapse.

As I understand it , it is withdrawal if the symptoms start very soon after discontinuation.

Relapse of depressive symptoms, would take much longer to appear, possibly months , if they had resolved whilst on the med .

[mammaP]

 

Peggy, thanks for chipping in with your experience. We recommend very low doses for reinstating, 1mg to start with. If it is tolerated but not enough it can be increased if needed. After some time off  the nervous system can become sensitive to the drug and not tolerate high doses. Sujema also had bad side effects and will need to go low so as to avoid them.  I reinstated and am glad that I did, it has been a journey of windows and waves but better than protracted withdrawal! 

 

i am aware of the low dose re -instating and just going back to the dose you last felt stable at,  however, in this case because Sujema did BIG drops and quickly she hasn't had time to accommodate to lower doses anyway - the faster she becomes stable, the less time her nervous system is in distress.  

 

I see that Peggy, but Sujema was quitting because of the adverse effects of the drug, Starting very low and then titrating up will find a level that will hopefully not have the same side effects and ease withdrawal.  I thought the same as you until I saw that Alto's method really does work.

[Sujema]

Hi guys,

I finally succumbed to reinstating 4 beads (Effexor). I realised that after the humiliation of breaking down in a bank today, and feeling like it wasn't worth living in this hell.... It was time to stop white knuckling it, and holding out for this 'miraculous healing brain' of mine to deliver me to elusive happiness.

It is ironic that the 'poison' I so longed to eradicate, may take the edge of the pain that IT caused.

So good to have you to talk to. Think my loved ones must be at a loss to understand, when they ask " what were you thinking about to make you cry in the bank ?".

How can you explain that, Nothing specific had to precede the 'Tsunami of fear and grief' that washes over you.

Praying for peace!

[Petunia]

Hi Sujema,

 

I'm happy to hear that you have decided to try reinstatement, no one needs to suffer through withdrawal if its possible to reinstate and then begin a proper, safe taper.  That's what we are here for, to help people get off these drugs safely and remain functional in their lives as they do it.

 

Has anyone given you the reinstatement topic, so you know what to expect?  Here it is again in case they haven't. Please read through it carefully it should answer most of your questions about what to do, when to do it and what you may experience:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to stop withdrawal symptoms

 

Please stay in touch regularly to let us know how you are doing, and especially if you are thinking of making any changes.  I hope this works well and that you start to feel better soon.

 

Petunia.

[Fresh]

Reinstating doesn't mean you're any less brave , possibly just more sensible.

I hope you notice an improvement quickly.    Give it at least 4 days to get into your blood stream.

 

[bubble]

 

 

Peggy, thanks for chipping in with your experience. We recommend very low doses for reinstating, 1mg to start with. If it is tolerated but not enough it can be increased if needed. After some time off  the nervous system can become sensitive to the drug and not tolerate high doses. Sujema also had bad side effects and will need to go low so as to avoid them.  I reinstated and am glad that I did, it has been a journey of windows and waves but better than protracted withdrawal! 

 

i am aware of the low dose re -instating and just going back to the dose you last felt stable at,  however, in this case because Sujema did BIG drops and quickly she hasn't had time to accommodate to lower doses anyway - the faster she becomes stable, the less time her nervous system is in distress.  

 

I see that Peggy, but Sujema was quitting because of the adverse effects of the drug, Starting very low and then titrating up will find a level that will hopefully not have the same side effects and ease withdrawal.  I thought the same as you until I saw that Alto's method really does work.

 

 

I would just like to add that in such cases we also consider the time a person has been off the drug or at a significantly lower dose. In Sujema's case it has been at least 2 months since she was last on 37.5 mg. In that period the brain has already done a lot of adjusting to functioning without the drug and we often see that reinstating at a previous or last stable dose causes very nasty reactions. 

 

Sujema, I do hope you you start feeling better soon. As Petunia and Fresh said reinstatement is not a failure. It's just a safe and ultimately faster way of getting of the drugs. Not to mention avoiding excruciating suffering.

 

When you find the time it would be good to update your signature so that we can all see at a glance what changes were happening and when. Putting at least an approximate date is preferable to saying 11 days ago because as the time goes by we can't know when 11 days ago was

 

All the best,

Bubble

[Sujema]

Thank you for your messages of support.

It was recommended that I update my signature to be more specific with dates.

I cannot see where to do that....??

[bubble]

The way I do it is I go to my profile (find myself by typing my forum name in search in the top right corner on this page and select members). Once I'm in my profile, I click on Edit my profile, again in top right corner. When you do that a new interface will open where you will see Signature on the left. Click there and you will be able to Edit your signature.

 

I find it very useful because sometimes I'm not sure when I made changes with my drugs and when I do it here, it's all there.

 

Keep us posted.

[peggy]

Sujema, i hope you feel better soon.

Are you on brand name effexor or generic?  Do you know how many beads are in your capsules?  If you are on brand name, then 4 beads is probably about 1mg effexor.

[Sujema]

Reinstated 4 beads Effexor, day 3, and already I'm reminded why I came off.

The Asthma like, shortness of breath and waking migraine are back, with a vengeance! It is so hard to ingest something you know is putting your body under strain.

Means to an end, hey?

Desolation, and thoughts of self harm Off drug, or, unsolicited, harm to your body On it!!!

Is there no other way????

[Fresh]

So do you feel that you're having a bad reaction to it?    If the headaches and breathing difficulties have become worse since starting it , it may not be best to continue.

Have you noticed any improvements at all?

[Petunia]

How are you doing Sujema? Has reinstating brought any improvement, no change or have you become worse?  At four days, you should be able to have an idea if its going to help, or at least not make things worse.  If after 4 days there has been an obvious bad reaction, its recommended you reduce the dose or stop taking it.

 

Please let us know how you are.

[Sujema]

Hi all,

4 bead taper, day 7 I think.

I have had 3 beautiful days free of 'gloom'. When I say 'beautiful', I'm speaking relatively. Feel a bit flat, but it is so fantastic not to feel utter dispair. Feel optimistic!

Hope this message finds you all in high spirits. If not, I wish you peace.

[Fresh]

Woo-HOOO ,    so happy for you!!    Yes , it is all relative  

[AmyK]

Wow, that is great Sujema! Enjoy!