WDSurviving22: Need Help! (tapering paxil)

[WDSurviving22]

I take my dose at 5:30 pm every night. My symptoms start at about 15 minutes after I take my medication. I can sometimes feel my head getting pressure in it as my medication is starting to kick in. It has done this every night for a year and a half. What I mean my different symptoms every night and day, is when I take my weighed doseage, my body will feel either that my doseage was low, or I'll feel it was two high. One night I might be freezing cold, then the next time I'm swearing up a storm, or I'll be super angry one night, and super depressed another. My symptoms are never consistent.

[Petunia]

Thank you for clarifying that WDS, I understand now.

 

I also read back through your thread and found something Rhi wrote, which confirmed what I was thinking.

 

It's going to be confusing, because of the benzo withdrawal, which after a CT takes a couple of years for most people to get over completely. (On average. Some recover faster, some take longer, and you never know which you will be.)

 

So you will probably continue to have waves of symptoms which may be due to a change you made the day before but also may be due to something you changed a week before or may just be random windows and waves due to benzo withdrawal (which is typically very roller coaster, you feel better and think you're done, then it hits again, etc.)

 

Sounds like you're taking a sensible and cautious approach. That's the main thing. Take it slow, give your body time to adapt to any changes that you make. You can do this.

 

I don't think your changing symptoms are being caused by inaccuracies in your current paxil dosing, but because you never really stabilized properly after the benzo CT. As Rhi noted above, it can often take as long as 2 years to stabilize completely, if not longer.

 

Changing symptoms are typical of withdrawal syndrome. Here are some topics which explain more about this:

 

Neuro emotions

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

[WDSurviving22]

Well oddly enough, my symptoms were always consistent until I switched over to liquid paxil, when it didn't agree with me, I switched back to the pills I'm taking now, and since that time my symptoms have been all over the place. I think my body cannot stabilize on generic paxil anymore.

[WDSurviving22]

I need assistance with making my own liquid paxil. I'm using a medicine bottle with a cap with a hole in it. I can never seem to get consistent a dose using this. Are there any suggestions?

[tgirl]

Hey WD,

Sorry you are having troubles.

Did you look up making your own diy Paxil?

 

I hope you are well,

Tgirl

[Altostrata]

Tips for tapering off Paxil (paroxetine)

[WDSurviving22]

Yeah ive looked out how to make my own did paxil. I'm just having some problems going about it.

[WDSurviving22]

Well I've tried weighting out the powser, symptoms werent consistent. I've tried shaving, then weighting, symptoms weren't consistent. I've tried making my own liquid paxil many different ways, symptoms weren't consistent. I also tried liquid paxil, way to many side effects. I'm completely lost, and have no idea where to go from here. My body is so sensitive that even the slightest difference in dose makes me have different effects. I can't go up to 15mg, because that made me angry, and have panic attacks every night. What can I do?

[brassmonkey]

The most frustrating thing about tapering off of these drugs is that the symptoms are never consistent.  It's just plain not going to happen.  They will be different day to day, minute to minute.  With five CTs in the past three years I can see why your system is sensitive.  What you can do is stop switching thing around every few weeks.  Pick a method and dose and stick with it for a long time until things settle down.  Then start a micro taper and work your way off very slowly.

[WDSurviving22]

Well I have one last option on the table before I will have to switch. I just called a high tech compound pharmacy, and they said that they will use powdered raw paroxetine instead of using crushed up pills. Will this be more accurate?

[WDSurviving22]

Also, I only have 2 c/t in the past 3 years, paxil and benzos.

[brassmonkey]

It's right there in your signature

 

 #1  Ct paxil

 #2 #3 Switch Lexapro/klonopin to Celexa/valium  a direct switch is considered a CT and a cross taper is very close to one

 #4 CT Valium

 #5 Switch Celexa to Paxil same as above

 

None of these drugs are interchangeable. At best the new one will cover up part of the WD symptoms from the previous one, but never negate them.  So when you switch drug you are left with three things 1) the original condition if one even existed 2) WD symptoms from the previous drug and 3) start up symptoms from the new drug.  On top of that because ones system has been sensitized by the previous drugs and abrupt stop there will also be sensitivity issues to deal with.

 

Every time one changes dosage (which can happen inadvertently by changing the preparation method) the stabilization clock is reset and the process started over from the beginning.  Which is why it is essential to pick a method and dose and stick with it until stability happens. Which can be a long process especially if ones system has been sensitized.

 

Every time one med is substituted for another the CTWD clock is reset also and the process started over.  CTWD is a very long and nasty process that is to be avoided if at all possible.

[WDSurviving22]

Well I've decided to stick with my compounded med from the certified compound pharmacy. I'm just hoping this works, and doesn't make me feel worse in the long run.

[WDSurviving22]

Ok I need advice, because I believe something is wrong. I received my new compounded paroxetine prescription today, all they did was crush the pills weigh it out, and add lactose as the filler as that is what is in my medication already. I took my first dose tonight, and it felt like it was a lot stronger than when I normally make my medication, I got super panicy, really hot, and nauseaous all of which is what I got the night I decided to start tapering 7 months ago. Should I stick it out in hopes of it going away? Or am I just overly sensitive to lactose?

[WDSurviving22]

Well I've made a list of all the fillers that I can't have anything sugar based, and alcohol based. I'm going to get a gluten free starch to use as a filler. The only problem I'm still having, and I realize it's only been a week so I can't expect it to all be better now, is that some days I feel like I'm cutting my dose, and others I feel like I'm updosing,

[WDSurviving22]

It's been a week on my compounded 13.8 pills, and my symptoms seem to be getting worse. The depression is killing me, severe head pressure, and extreme opposites in symptoms every day. I'm really losing hope fast.

[WDSurviving22]

Alto, I need advice. I know it's been only 8 days on my new compound script from the multi accredited compound pharmacy, but I still feel extreme differences in doses per pill. I seriously doubt that they screwed up, though there is always a chance, but I still highly doubt it. Whenever I get a dose on the lower side or higher side it seems to add symotors to what I am already experiencing. As of the last three days, I am experiencing extreme head pressure, dr/dp, dizziness, feeling faint and dark depression. I know deep down that I should seriously just stick with this comp script, and that I will, given enough time, stabilize, but the current symptoms I am experience is making it hard to do so.

[LexAnger]

Hi WD,

 

I'm so sorry about your situation.

I'm not trying to provide any suggestions about which way to go for the medication as I don't know. What I like to share is the changing nature of symptoms. I have been using liquid lexapro the same make for years and I am getting like 120 day supply from the same lot. Even with a <1% cut holding for weeks, my symptoms changes daily and hourly based. I used to have a daily journal now I have to take a note for new symptoms every few minutes. Giving my med history and slow taper, I believe the constant change is from my sensitized nerve system trying to catch up things per certain priority at each moment that can be impacted by thousands things not only dosage. I started having this only after my system was tuned out ( sensitized) by a dose increase I made last year.

 

Do you think it's possible it has little to do with dose accuracy? If I were you, I would stick to one form and holding for as long as it takes before introducing any changes. Different form/source can introduce new triggers though even the active ingredient are exactly same and the dosage is accurate.

 

Hope you can calm down and won't be stressed out even more by this puzzle.

 

Lex

[WDSurviving22]

I'm going to explain my history of this time being on paxil as I do not believe I have explained it well enough for yall to truly understand and be able to help. I was doing fantastic on 15 mg from Sept '14 to march '15. I attempted to quit smoking by going from cigarettes to patches. My nervous system being already sensitive from my forced CT off of Valium got even more screwed up by my quitting smoking attempt. I started back as the WD were way to rough.

 

Once I started back smoking, all was good for about a month, then everytime I took my 15mg at night at first I got depressed, then after a week or so, it started to make me really hot, and angry after 3 hours of taking it which would always result in a panic attack every night so I decided to taper.

 

In my signature I detail my taper so I'll skip that portion of the story. I was making my own liquid the whole time and at the beginning it seemed to work perfectly, but after a month or two it seemed as if I was takingmore than I should be, because it felt as if I had increased my dose. So I decided to lower it down until I felt like I was back to where I was supposed to be which I always seemed to lower it to far. I eventually decided to have it compounded. They used name brand paxil which was "new" to my nervous system and it did not agree with me.

 

So I decided to go back to making my own liquid which I did for a few weeks, then I got ahold of the manufactureday paxil liquid. That definitely did not agree with me so I went back to homemade. It was at the time that I went back to homemade that I started to feel like I was taking different doses every night when I believe it was close enough to the same dose. I was at 14.1 Mg at the time.

 

I thought that maybe the liquid wasn't working so about two weeks after I switched back to homemade liquid, I switched to grinding up and weighing them out. This worked for about a week or two that I started to really feel as if my doseages weren't consistent, and I would be depressed one night, normal the next, and then angry the next. I went through this for almost a month this was June '15.

 

Mid July '15 I then decided to just weigh out 4.1mg and then take a 10mg pill this worked better but still made me nervous as I still felt as if my doseages weren't consistent. At the beginning of August '15, I decided to just shave and weigh out my pills in tablet form, but at 14.1 it made me feel the same as it had on 15mg so I decided to go down to 13.8 august '15. This worked great for about 3 weeks but I got nervous that I was going to screw it up so I got it compounded again with the right brand this time, but the microcystalline cellulose they used as a filler gave me headaches, and every time I got a low dose pill it would make my anxiety worse overall. So I decided to go back to shaving and weighting September 15.

 

Mid Sept ' 15 I decided to see if I could make my own liquid paxil a new way, but that too did not work, so I decided liquid wasn't for me. A week later I went back to shaving and weighing, this time it made me feel horrible, so a week later again I went back to weighing 3.8 powder and taking a 10mg pill. This made me feel better but my scale wasn't working right and it eventually made me feel worse, now fast forward to now, I've been on a new compounded script from a new ACCREDITED pharmacy, and I am feeling extreme changes in my dose, but like I said I highly doubt they screwed it up.

[WDSurviving22]

Thank you lex. Yeah I am definitely going to stick with this method how ever long it takes. I'm done switching methods, and doseages etc.

[LexAnger]

You reminded me of one time switch from the liquid to pill last year in middle of tapering. I felt it immediately with panic shooting to the sky and extreme dizziness.

 

While back in early years of taking lex, I switched from pill to liquid, brand to generic with no problems.

 

I'm now more sure it's our system being too sensitized.

[WDSurviving22]

Did you ever stabilize?

[SquirrellyGirl]

In reading through your thread, I am struck by the fact that you focus extremely on the notion that you can FEEL that the dosages are not consistent, and then chase after fixing that.  I know the more we focus on the symptoms, the worse we make it for ourselves, cause ourselves more suffering.  I'm just wondering if that is what is happening with you.  I am not trying to be critical at all, and believe me, I can fixate on tapering and WD symptoms with the best of them!  I'm thinking maybe what would help more is to stick with one method, and then try not to focus so hard on the symptoms, be they side effects of the  med or WD symptoms.  Perhaps try to use distraction, meditation, tapping (Emotional Freedom Techniques), and the like to help you get through.

 

The reverberations of the benzo CT along with all these micro changes with trying different methods may be what's causing all the variation, but whatever the case, you need to be consistent so that those oscillations can settle down.

 

Be kind and gentle with yourself, and know it will pass :-)

[LexAnger]

Well, if we define stabilizing as with consistent symptoms and basic functionality for daily life. Yes. Increasing to 2.7mg from the initial taper down to 2.5 got the panic attack in bay immediately then during holding for like 8-10 months at 2.7 I basically only had to live daily jaw pain and occasional other pains. Even after the my system was completely sensitized later on by several dose increase, I did have days having less severe symptoms although never symptoms free for a single day ever since the hit of panic attack. Giving this round of tiny cut with acute WD like symptoms, I am guessing my system is in a big crisis for reasons I don't know. I'm trying to hold until it settles down if it will ever happen.

 

I have no other choices afraid of. The bad reaction to dose increase as experienced before, even tiny like 0.025mg.

 

I also feel your situation has lots to do with previous CTs, just hold for those effect settle down first, that should provide a stable status, then deal with the pixil as a clean page.

 

After so much learning and experience, I'm now more focused on my system rather than drugs. The best thing is to protect our systems not to be harmed more causing per enact damage to other organs like my back and heart.

 

I feel for you especially I lived in Lexington Kentucky couple years and consider it my second hometown, sot hunk we are neighbors

 

Sending you a big long hug!

Lex

[WDSurviving22]

Thank you both, yeah I'm definitely going to just hold for how ever long it takes me on this Sigler method.

[WDSurviving22]

Well it has been two weeks yesterday, that I've bee on this single method. Which is longer than I've been on one method in over 2 and half months. While I still feel variations in doseages, I feel like that amount in variation is becoming smaller. I'm starting to experience quite a few consistent symptoms. Since I switched a lot in a course of 6-7 months, I realize that it will probably take me more than a month or two to feel better, possibly longer, but I am starting to feel hopeful.

[WDSurviving22]

I have a question that has been worrying me. If a compound pharmacy crushes up the pills, and weighs them out, is that accurate enough for my body to get used to?

[WDSurviving22]

If for some reason this method does not work, how would I go about shaving then weighing my pills?

[brassmonkey]

Hi WDS--  getting pills from a compounding pharmacy is usually one of the more accurate and easiest ways to taper, I can, however, be a  lot more expensive.  I have been cutting/crushing and weighting my own doses my entire taper and have had no trouble.  There are several good threads on how to do it: 

 

How to cut up tablets or pills

 

Using a digital scale to measure doses

 

Did I go wrong with my nailfile?

 

How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

[WDSurviving22]

well tbh, I believe it is accurate, but my body is sensitized, and reads each pill as a different dose. Im still hoping to stabilize, I just want to have another option just in case.

[WDSurviving22]

well tbh, I believe it is accurate, but my body is sensitized, and reads each pill as a different dose. Im still hoping to stabilize, I just want to have another option just in case.

Just to add, They are crushing up already made paroxetine pills, and weighting them out. Is this still one of the more accurate ways?

[WDSurviving22]

None of these threads really help with filing down a pill and weighting it out. Since I'll be filing do I still weight them all out and take an average measurement? or since they all weight differently, weight out each individual one, and take the amount from each individual weight? I can't do liquid at all, be it homemade, or manufactured. The only options I have are filing the pill, and weighting it out, or compounding. I've asked the compound pharmacy if they could make my medicine with raw paroxetine powder, but they said it isn't available. All they can do is crush up pills, weight it out, and add extra filler.

[ladybug]

Yes, weigh out several pills to get an average weight.

[WDSurviving22]

Well its been almost 4 weeks, on a single method. Compound pharmacy crushing pills, weighting them out, and adding extra filler. I'm still experiencing the feeling of dose increase some nights, and dose decrease others. It is worrying me quite alot, as I still do not know if it is my body causing these feelings, or if the pharmacy didn't do it properly. http://www.dcapharmacy.com/this is the pharmacy I am using. They are accredited by a few proper accreditation boards. I seriously don't feel like I'll ever stabilize. All of this started after I had tried the manufacturered paxil liquid. That is when I was able to feel differences in dose.

[Petunia]

 All of this started after I had tried the manufacturered paxil liquid. That is when I was able to feel differences in dose.

 

How long ago was this?

 

See:  The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

[WDSurviving22]

I believe it was sometime in May of this year.