WDSurviving22: Need Help! (tapering paxil)

[WDSurviving22]

I just feel all of these differences in dose is hurting me tremendously.

[WDSurviving22]

Need assistance. It has been almost 4 weeks, and it seems my symptoms are getting worse by the day. Should I continue taking the Compound or switch to a different method?

[dalsaan]

Hi,

 

Can you please update your signature to show your history since April.  As a moderator It's good to have a total history in abbreviated form to think with.

 

Dalsaan

[WDSurviving22]

OK I updated my history.

[dalsaan]

so you are on 14 mg and compounded liquid since the start of October?

[WDSurviving22]

****, that is my fault. I forgot to add I went down to 13.8 in June of this year.

[dalsaan]

Ok, add that in.

 

I think two things - you are too invested/intense about the impact of changes.  Whatever we do we will have windows and waves, you have to become tolerant of that otherwise you will undermine your recovery.  

 

Having a downturn in symptoms doesn't necessarily equate to something you have done recently nor does it mean you have to change something. I think you have been chasing your tail here.   However, I think you were most comfortable when you were making your own liquid.   If that's correct, you might think about going back to that strategy and commit to sticking to it and riding out the windows and waves.

 

Your thoughts?

[WDSurviving22]

Actually I was most comfortable when I was shaving and weighing out my pills. Liquid did not agree with me.

[dalsaan]

well I think you have lost faith in your current strategy and you could consider moving back to one you have more faith in.  My key concerns with that is 1) it is yet another change, 2) it reproduces the idea that there is a fix out there if only you could find it and 3) I think your own relationship to your taper and what you experience is leading you to undermine any strategy.

 

Can you get yourself less investing in your symptoms post changes and more accepting of the windows and wave patter?

[WDSurviving22]

Well I can, but it just seems like I'm not having any windows, just that my waves are getting worse and worse. Is it possible that this method just doesn't agree with me, like the liquid does?

[dalsaan]

anything is possible but no one can know that for sure so you have to make decision based on an absence of knowledge.  

[WDSurviving22]

Well I've told everyone, that I would give it 6 weeks. It will be 4 weeks this thursday. From then I will make a decision.

[dalsaan]

ok, well that's a plan.   Try not to get caught up in deep analysis between now and then.  It doesnt help and it can drive you crazy.   Distract yourself, be kind to your nervous system.

 

I hope things turn around for you soon

 

D

[WDSurviving22]

Well an update. It has been 5 and a half weeks. And I'm not receiving any new symptoms, but I seem to have started recieving the same symptoms I had at week one. Still having what feels like updosing nights, and downdosing nights.

[WDSurviving22]

Update: It has been almost 7 weeks, and I've began to feel exhausted all the time from the moment I wake up, to the moment I go to sleep. Most nights my mind won't shut up. I keep having depressing thoughts. I'm also still experiencing days where it feels as if I am cutting my dose, and other days where it feels as if I am raising my dose. Any advice? Should I still stick with my compounded 13.8 prescription?

[AliG]

 Hi WD,

 

I have read quite a bit of your thread, and there is a common theme of instability in dosage and preparation, distrust of compounding ( pharmacies etc.), and a lot of anxiety. Worrying about varying doses, at all times. Instantaneous symptoms , brought on by " wrong  dose" etc. It might be that you are ultra- sensitive, but that being the case , I think it is even more important to stay stable .If I were you I would decide what is the best method for you and stick to it, religously, without wavering. It is probably the " windows & waves ", that you're experiencing, but on a more sensitive level, perhaps, or maybe you're focusing on them more.

 

I would stick to your compounded script for 13.8 mg , and stay on hold there for a while .  Maybe read these links again  :

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6632-the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-stabilization/

 

I hope that you can find some stability, and then continue on slowly with your taper.

 

Ali.

[WDSurviving22]

I just wish I had hope of eventually becoming stable. With these up dose /downdose feelinga, it is hard to have hope.

[oskcajga]

I just wish I had hope of eventually becoming stable. With these up dose /downdose feelinga, it is hard to have hope.

 

Yes, I understand completely.   It's easy to say "hang in there, have hope" but it's immensely difficult.

[WDSurviving22]

Need advice. It has been 3 months on my compounded dose of 13.8 trying to stabilize, but I have progressively gotten worse. I'm starting to think my paxil has pooped out on me. Would be it wise to continue tapering? if so how much?

[WDSurviving22]

Well I switched back to shaving my pills, and it has been 3 days since I've done so. In those three day, each day has been a different dose. I know for a fact this isn't a wave/window feeling, this is an uneven dose feeling. Same with the Compound pills, and every other method I've used. The slightest amount difference I can feel, even though others don't feel it. I have no idea what to do, because every method turns out the same.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Happy New Year WDSurviving22!

 

So, describe to me exactly how you are measuring your dosages.  Are you using a scale when you shave your pills?

 

I use the Gemini scale.  I used to weigh out my doses each day but quickly realized what a hassle that was!  So, I began weighing batches of two weeks at a time, putting the dosages into empty gel capsules. 

 

I ran into dosage differences between weighing sessions because I wasn't calibrating my scale at the beginning of each weighing session.  When I re-weighed some capsules, they were totally different than I thought they were!

 

So, I've come up with a system that seems to be working well for me now. 

 

I was doing this with Remeron tablets which have a coating that comes off in little flakes and doesn't want to grind up the way the pill interior does.  So, I avoid the coating and use just the powdered part.  My pills were 30 mg and I was aiming for, as an example, 22 mg.  So, I would break the pill in half, weigh half, and then add powder to that half to get 220 mg (since with the filler the actual weight is 10 times the dosage).  This seemed to work fine for me. 

 

However, since my little scale still can lose it's calibration in the midst of a weighing session, what I now do is:

 

1) Calibrate the scale at the beginning of the session with the provided weights

2) Use a calibration weight in between dose weighing to double check that the calibration is holding.  

3) I will tare the scale and check the weight again if the calibration weight doesn't weigh true, and if that doesn't bring a true reading, then I'll go through the calibration steps again.

 

Needless to say, it is very time consuming, but I'm sensitive and so it is a necessity.

 

I was using a pill crusher to powder my pills, but it began to not spin and crush easily, so I tossed it  I have a mortar and pestle that works wonderfully to powder the pills.

 

I would think that if you adopted this type of system, you wouldn't have any variation in dosages.

 

Taking it to an even higher level of precision, keep in mind that a tiny amount of powder will stick to the weigh boat, so it might be best to weigh a dose, shake the powder around so the weigh boat (pan) gets covered in it, then dump the powder back in the bowl, tap off the excess and then tare the scale to account for the tiny amount of powder sticking to the weigh boat.  That way, that amount on there should remain fairly constant as you weigh out doses, sort of "pre-lubricating" the weigh pan.

 

I hope I haven't totally lost you here!  Hopefully this will help.   If you are not using a scale, I strongly encourage you to get one and end the uncertainty for your peace of mind!

 

SG

[WDSurviving22]

Happy New Year as well.

 

What I'm doing is just using a nail file to file the pill down to a certain weight, but I think my scale isn't weighting them right, because every pill I make feels different. For instance, last night, I shaved one, and it felt just like it did when I updosed a couple of months back. Then tonight, it felt just like I made a cut in dose. I always feel a cut the night I make it. My body is super sensitive so it can feel it faster than most.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Thanks for explaining.  Do you weigh your dose every day?  If so, I'd recommend doing like I do and doing a week or two at a time, and checking that the scale is weighing accurately with the provided weights.  Mine comes with 10 g weights.  If my scale is weighing that 10 grams (10.000 g) in between dose weights, then there is not any variation between doses.

 

I could see inter-dose variation causing symptoms to change when your system has been super-sensitized.  Weighing out a bunch at once should eliminate this problem.  Do you put your doses in capsules?  If not, you can get them cheaply on Amazon.  I get the "00" size.

 

Good luck!

SG

[WDSurviving22]

Yeah I weight out everyday. I just weight out a 10mg, and then break them in half and file both halves to make two individual doses.

[WDSurviving22]

Also what would putting a pill in a capsule do?

[SquirrellyGirl]

So you are down to 10 mg, splitting a 20 mg tablet?  I know when I broke my mirt tablets, they were never equal halves.  

 

I would definitely try weighing a batch out all at once, being sure to double check the scale with the included weights, and see if that makes a difference.

 

SG

[brassmonkey]

I have found it easiest to grind the pills into a powder and weigh that instead of trying to shave the tablets, then put the powder into the gel caps.

 

It is a good idea to leave the calibration weight in the pan and tare it out while you are weighing your doses.  This puts the scale into the middle of its working range where it is the most accurate.

[WDSurviving22]

@Squirrelly No I'm on 13.6. I take one 10mg pill along with a 3.6 pill that I shaved down. I break a 10mg pill in half then shave both halves to 3.6.

 

@Brass. I can't do that method, because grinding up the pill make me feel worse.

[Fresh]

Hiya WD , how come you stopped having the 13.8mg compounded?

 

I understand it's more expensive , but it takes the guess-work out of weighing your

dose yourself.

When I was making up a dose of pristiq with bits of tablet and crushed powder , I ran into

issues with it being absorbed too quickly , and then "running out" and creating w/d symptoms

after around 21 hours.

[WDSurviving22]

Well to sum it all up, because I'm an idiot. I felt that the Compound pharmacy was getting it wrong because I still felt the updose/downdose feeling. I've come to find out, it is because of the medication itself. So this monday, I will be ordering more.

[Fresh]

Lol , good to retain a sense of humour about it all. It's all trial and error.

 

That sounds like a good move to me.

 

[WDSurviving22]

Lol, it is better to laugh than cry, so I'm trying to find the humor in everything.

[WDSurviving22]

Can compounding pharmacies use just raw paroxetine powder? I haven't found one yet that is able.

[WDSurviving22]

Hello, I am back after long absence. I am in a pickle yet again, and could definitely use some advice. I was on 13.8mg for a little over a year, and as feeling almost back to my normal self. Well I went on a 2 to 3 month long drinking binge, which I have quit drinking now. But the alcohol seems to have desensitized my nervous system again, and made my 13.8mg feel to strong.

 

So I decided I needed to taper, well until I got to the point where I knew I had to taper, I switched methods a few times, example being going from having my whole dose compounded to taking a half pill and half liquid, to pouring half of my compound in liquid and taking half by capsule and half by water, well then I using a scale for a few days and then letting the pill dissolve and taking it that way, but the scale was all screwed up, and didn't give accurate readings. I even had a few days where I took a different brand of paxil, cus it seemed to not hit as hard.

 

All of this jumping around has screwed me up even worse, but my anxious mind was just trying to find instant relief when I know where isn't any, but time. We'll I've decided to cut only 0.1mg and that even seems like it too much of a drop, but unfortunately I have no choice. Will I ever stabilize? Or have I screwed up my system too much?

[scallywag]

Stability in symptoms is most likely to result when medications are stable. You can probably get stable again if you keep your dose and the method the same.  Just a reminder, stable is not the same thing as no symptoms; stable means that your symptoms are not swinging wildly from hour to hour or day to day, just staying fairly consistent with only mild changes in intensity.

[WDSurviving22]

Thank you, I'm just worried because before I did all of the switching, 13.8mg felt like it had become way to strong, because of the drinking binge I went on. Today is day 1 of going to 13.7mg I'm plan to stay on this dose until I feel stable, however long that takes. I'm truly scared, and sad because a little over a month that ago, I felt great, and was actually about to go get a job for the first time in a couple of years. Now I'm right back in this mess, it kills me inside.