☼ AliG: Surviving

[calithebold]

Hi Ali,

I understand about the loses too. I lost my husband due to the depression I was feeling and now I realise that that depression could very well not been depression at all but a response to all the drugs I was taking interacting with each other and then the withdrawals and side effects when my doc changed someone, which was pretty much every time I saw her. Losing my husband was hard but I am so much better than I used to be and I think knowing that one day there will be the other side, is huge in knowing you can get there, you can recover and hang on to every possible thing you can in the process to keep the loses at a minimum is all we can do. I hope that things work out for you. You are in my thoughts.

Cali

[AliG]

Thanks Dave, I appreciate your kind words. These drugs take a lot from us , in many different

ways, physically and also on our relationships. I was probably overreacting, as I tend to do lately,

as all my emotions feel heightened. I have finally got my husband reading Robert Whittaker's

book, and it's helping a lot. If I can just stay a little calmer, and stop catastrophizing, I think

everything will be fine.

 

Thanks Cali, I'm sorry to hear you've had your losses, as well. My depression, was also from the drugs.

I've only just realized that. I suppose all these challenges, make us stronger and more compassionate

people, in the end.

 

Prayers and hugs to all.

[AliG]

I'm questioning myself, tonight. I'm day 48 from what you might call a secondary taper. On and off SSRI's & SSNRI's  for over 20 yrs.  Recent history -  Quit Valdoxan, - end of May , 2014. Cold turkey.  8 months later - withdrawal . I did not know it was withdrawal.  Went on Citalopram (Celexa 20 mg ) for 3 days, 10 mg for 1 day. Bad reaction. Next day started Mianserin ( similar to Mirtazapine), 10 mg. Was on this for 6 days before cold turkey.  I am now on day 48 of latest  withdrawal.  I thought about reinstating but decided against it thinking I could ride it out. I am doing that but I'm obsessed with what can happen now.  I have been on this site searching and am shocked by some things I have read. It has been said that anyone with a psych medical history of decades should take years to taper, and if they don't  will end up back on the drugs.

[Martina23]

AliG, please listen to yourself and dont feel discouraged

[AliG]

  Thank you for your encouragement but I'm a little confused.

[Martina23]

You wrote that you feel bad about the fact that some mods said you have to taper for years if you were on the medicine for a long time. I meant only that you should not feel bad if you decide to do it other way, as only you know what you feel.

[AliG]

  Thanks so much for that Martina.  I understand. Thats funny timing, because I'm just reading your thread.  Thank you so much ,

  for taking the time , to reach out to me. 

[Meimeiquest]

Hi Ali, just read your comments on Dave's thread about exercise. I think the reason it can be so unhelpful in WD is that it stresses the body and thereby causes cortisol production, and cortisol is one of the big enemies. Cortisol is normally elevated from exercise, but when we are so stressed our response can be very abnormal. One person ( forget who) said keeping the pulse below 100 will prevent that. Of course, some people are at 120 just from standing up in hard WD. Alto's official advice is 30 minutes of gentle exercise a day, but of course it depends on where someone is. About a year ago, not feeling well, my pdoc asked me to watch blood sugars to see if anything surfaced. Gentle walk down street resulted in blood sugar of 168. (Too much cortisol raises blood sugar in many people).

[AliG]

 I've had 1.5 hrs sleep in the last 3 days.  How is it possible to keep functioning, at this level?   At the moment I have very low expectations of myself.  It's funny how the most basic things seem overwhelming right now.  

 

 The good news is that this is my new normal and I'm accepting of that.   I suppose I'm not going to die from lack of sleep, so  I just keep going, in a  very low - functioning way.  Whats the lesson here?  I wish I knew. -   Don't listen to Doctors and Big Pharma is dishonest. It's all a conspiracy to hoodwink the public,  and make lots of $   

 

On the plus side, My mood, although up and down , is not extremely depressed. Slightly depressed - Yes !  Even though I am a total insomniac, at the moment, and a non- functioning  member of the community , I feel that one day , I  might make a difference, in some small way.  I don't have high hopes at the moment,  but I know that is withdrawal  speaking.  Even if I can stop one person from ruining their life, with this poison that is enough at the moment.

  

It's  4 am here.  "Happy Days ". Another sleepless night.  

[calithebold]

Hey Ali, I'm up too here in  Oz at 4am. Though I have had some sleep. I'm sorry you are really really struggling. I wish I could say something that would make it feel better.

 

You said "Even though I am a total insomniac, at the moment, and a non- functioning  member of the community , I feel     one day , I will make a difference, in some small way". You are a member are the community, it's just that it's here where you are and you are liked by a lot of people and people really care about you and that's always a start. I think you do make a difference, every time you respond to someone, you make a difference. I know when I get your responses to my thread, they make me feel better and I'm sure others feel the same as I do. I know how hard it is but I am trying to turn off my inner critic. The voice in my head that tells me I'm awful and don't deserve good things. I know it's hard hearing some of this stuff, so sorry if it has. Thinking of you

[AliG]

Thanks Cali, Tonight is surreal I'm  on my third day of no " shuteye". I'm not handling it well although I have resigned myself to giving another year or two  of my life to this process. You are right - we need to turn off the inner critic. When you grow up with  abuse it becomes second nature.

[AliG]

  Thanks Meimei,  Is that why some of us put on weight, no matter how we "diet"?  The  blood sugar.  Why do Psych drugs do that?

   Why do they raise Cortisol , so much?  What can we do to counteract that?    So many questions, so little time !!    Hope you don't mind

   the inquisition - just curious. 

[peggy]

good morning Ali..

 

I feel so awful for you - 3 nights of no sleep - i am a bit of an insomniac phobic - i experienced severe insomnia as my primary symptom with postnatal depression after my first born.  i began to obsess over sleep - would i sleep tonight?  i would think about it all day - that was now the anxiety manifested itself.  In fact, when ever i got depressed again that was my hallmark symptom - the thought would i sleep tonight.  It was so bizarre - if i wasn't depressed i could have that thought and it would float through my head - but if it stuck, that was the beginning of another depressive episode.  I think it was caused by conditioning in my childhood - if i couldn't sleep my mother would say - you better get to sleep quickly or you won't be able to (whatever) tomorrow.  But I am a usually a very good sleeper - fall asleep quickly and sleep deeply.  

 

You may not want any advice, but i would suggest that you don't use your computer from 7pm - 7am.  The light from the computer screen is particularly bad for your sleep especially if is a little fragile.  Instead, download some guided meditation sleep audios from sites such as meditation oasis.  Even if you don't actually sleep, you might get into a meditative state that gives your brain some rest to heal.  Use them a couple of times during the day as well.  

 

love and light, Peggy

[Fresh]

You're right Ali , no-one ever died from lack of sleep.  It sound like you're handling the changes really well.  

I always saw changes as a positive.   My biggest fear was that I'd stay the same for ever , so changes in symptoms

meant something was changing , and that was good.  As Peggy suggests , resting your body and brain is important

even if you can't sleep.

 

Hip Hop Happy Eater ,  Fresh

 

p.s. Peggy , do you ever look at your thread?  

[Tilly]

Hi Ali,

 

Thank you so much for stopping by my page and your lovely comments. I really appreciate you taking the time.

 

Withdrawal, for me is like a grieving process in many ways. The less that I resist the mood swings, neuro - emotions and wide range of symptoms, the easier I find things. Maybe this will help you too? My dry humour helps me at times too. I try to laugh at myself and find humour where and when possible. (My eye twitches this week have turned me into a serial winker!!!)  I am also finding that my resilience and sense of self is increasing slowly but surely as a consequence of negotiating my way through the daily struggles that we face.

 

What you are going through is perfectly natural, given your circumstances. Not at all fair or right, but all part of the healing process. I hope that brings you some comfort, especially through the tough times.

 

You are showing such courage and strength that maybe you can't always see yourself. Remember to give yourself full credit for every success, no matter how small.

 

I will follow your progress with interest and wish you the best of everything. You sound like such a lovely person.

 

Take care and be kind to yourself.

 

Tilly x

[JanCarol]

Oh Ali! I'm so sorry you have been feeling so bad!  I was off in my own little world - I'm sorry I didn't get back to you before now.

 

Please don't beat yourself up, you're doing your best.

 

I don't know much about mianserin, you said like Mirtazapine, but it sounds like an older tricyclic.  Can you reinstate a tiny amount, say, 1 mg?  Just to smooth over this rough patch?  Then taper from there?  How do you feel about that?  Does it scare you too much?  Or are you desperate for help?

 

Yes, psych drugs make us fat, and hold onto fat, and start metabolic syndrome.  But you look fairly fit - sure - not a runway model, but who wants to be a bag of bones? 

 

Here's 3 stories from GiaK about psych meds and fat:

Beyond Meds - psych meds and fat

Beyond Meds - Psychiatric drugs and fat

Beyond Meds - Psych Meds make you fat

She gained 95 pounds (43 kilos) in just 3 years on psych meds.  She lost 82 pounds (37 kilos) by quitting gluten and eating more fresh veggies, paleo for awhile, then low histamine diet for awhile.  She wasn't looking to "lose weight" just to get healthy again, and feed her brain so that she could heal.

 

I hope your hubby can be patient a bit longer - he has no idea.

 

I remember talking to my yoga teacher about massage.  And I said I would never let a man touch me on the table.  She was stunned!  I felt like saying, "oh honey, how nice for you - you've never been molested, abused, and have no reason to fear.  Some of us have it otherwise!"  But I didn't.  I just said, No No men.  I couldn't relax on the table with a man.

 

That's what I feel you may need to say to hubby:  "oh honey, how nice for you - you have no idea what it's like to be . . . . . . "(I don't know how graphic you want to get, but you can get your point across.)  and "please be patient with me, the drugs sometimes take YEARS to come out of the system, and it's bringing all these issues and memories up."

 

It would drive me batty to have a high powered man in the house right now.  I'm so slow, my totem koala bear just barely moving, spending lots of time resting and heaving.  

 

Have you been to the gym lately?  Yoga class?  These little things help you feel a bit better.  I'll ask my acupuncturist next time if she knows someone in your neighborhood, that maybe she went to school with.  If she doesn't know, she works under an older, more experienced lady who surely knows someone.

 

{{{{{Ali}}}}}

[justwanttobefree]

Thinking of you Ali and praying you get a deep restful sleep tonight!! I've read your kind and supportive replies on others threads as well as my own and you are truly a sweetheart. Don't be hard on yourself when it comes to your husband, marriages are hard work as it is without one side struggling with complete mental and phsycial turmoil! I've asked my husband to just love me and be patient with me as I navigate this journey. Men tend to be fixers and unfortunately this is one thing that they can't fix! You are strong and have a lot of insight, you are going to make it ❤️ Just keep putting one foot in front of the other.

[AliG]

 Thanks everyone for the concern , kind words and encouragement.   You're right Peggy, I will have to limit my computer time, at night when insomnia hits as it probably does not help, however there's not much else to do, but I will try. The meditation guides sound like a good idea. Thanks for the tip.

 

Fresh, thanks for checking in . I hope you're enjoying the Easter break. The sun is shining up here so I hope it's lovely and sunny down Sydney way.  I love this time of year. We got away up to the "sunshine coast" for a few days, and I finally managed to sleep. Praise the Lord !  

 

Thanks Tilly , for the kind words. I think you're right about the " path of least resistance", and just going with the flow.  I think we have to accept that this is just the way it is, for now  and be at peace with that. I think keeping it light if we can and having a laugh about it , truly is good medicine. You gave me a laugh with the "serial winker" comment ! 

 

Jan, I'm still undecided on reinstating , as my procrastination is at an all time high.  Thanks for the links on diet. I'll check it out.You made me laugh , with your " koala bear " image - "just barely moving, spending lots of time, resting and heaving !   I haven't been to the gym in a few weeks due to overwhelming tiredness, but I am planning to rectify that in coming weeks. My gym also has yoga classes, that I used to do and I'm planning on getting back to that.  I think yoga is probably the perfect exercise for " recovery".

 

JustWTBF, Thank you so much for your  kind thoughts, and encouragement. You're right marriage can be tricky at the best of times, let alone something as challenging, as we are all facing in our recovery.  Men are definitely action oriented, and I think they feel helpless,

when they can't do that. I know that is how my husband feels, but I'm trying to teach him to just "listen" and accept, instead of trying to solve my problems. This is hard for him as he is a "take charge" kind of guy. 

 

I'm feeling so much better , brighter and more optimistic today after a bit of sleep and my few days at the beach, which I just adore, when the sun is shining and the sound of the waves , and seagulls .  That lovely salty , fresh air as you walk along the beach. Heaven.

It gave me a glimpse again, of how good life can be, when we're in the right place physically, to take it all in . It has given me hope , that was sadly waning a bit, and I  am now ready to take on this challenge with renewed vigor. 

 

I wish this for everyone here , as well. The strength to keep going, as we heal and get our lives back, one day at a time.

Happy Easter, 

Ali

[calithebold]

Hi Ali

 

I used to use the computer all the time in the middle of the night, it's hard not too hey, especially when you're bored and haven't anything to do with all those hours in front of you? How are you feeling at the moment? Are you okay? All these questions

[dalsaan]

Hi AliG,

 

Can I ask, when you took the mianserin what happened?   what effects did it have?   did you sleep better?   Being a very close cousin to mirtazapine I would expect some sleep effects

 

Just thinking about what's happening for you and your options.

 

Dalsaan x

[Altostrata]

Hi, AliG.

 

I just wanted to clarify your impression about tapering relative to how long it takes to heal once off psychiatric drugs.

 

We recommend very gradual tapering to reduce the risk of severe or prolonged withdrawal syndrome. Going cold-turkey off drugs is the route with the highest risk. Having been on them for years is definitely another high-risk factor for withdrawal difficulties.

 

However, there are people who have quit in a very short amount of time and suffered little or no withdrawal symptoms as well as others who have suffered withdrawal symptoms for many months or years.

 

No one can foretell who will have severe problems and who will have minor problems going off drugs. Medicine (while ALWAYS discouraging cold turkey for the damage it causes) thinks withdrawal syndrome is generally mild and lasts only a few weeks -- that may apply to the majority of people, or it could be completely erroneous. Doctors know little about psychiatric drug withdrawal syndrome.

 

When someone is very recently off a drug and suffering withdrawal syndrome, we usually suggest reinstating a very low dose of the drug, stabilizing, then tapering off very gradually some time later. This is the only way known to "treat" withdrawal syndrome. It does not always work.

 

Sometimes people choose not to reinstate the drug and deal with withdrawal syndrome, with all its unknowns. We also support that. The Symptoms and Self-Care forum is filled with suggestions for managing the symptoms of withdrawal syndrome.

 

Asking how long does withdrawal syndrome last is a very, very common question on this site. See

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Recovery

 

"Is it always going to be like this?"

 

The short answer is recovery is very gradual and the amount of time it takes is individual. If you've had withdrawal syndrome lasting more than a few months, it's likely it will take quite a few more months for you to feel better.

[Prestorb]

Hi AliG, how are you doing? I hope you are sleeping better...hugs 

[AliG]

  Hi Dalsaan,  when I took Mianserin, I  felt really tired. It knocked me out at night and then I felt drugged all day. That is why I stopped it so soon - ( 6 days). 

 

Thanks Alto, for clarifying some things for me. I will read up on those links.  For now I will continue as I have been, which is off all drugs,

even though it was C/T . I feel my history is too erratic, and too far along now to reinstate.  It would have been preferable, obviously, but I just didn't know that before I joined  S. A. 

 

Thanks Cali, and Pre for checking in.      I'm not doing so well. I have very intense emotions that can just come out of the blue, or can be set off by any frustrating circumstance -  ( people, weather, traffic , "news"  etc. )   I can  also feel the "dark cloud" of " depression", looming.   I'm trying to be accepting of this as "withdrawal", but some days are hard. 

 

Ali

[LoveandLight]

Hang in there, Ali x

[AliG]

     Just to post a quote from "fresh".    -    "when It's really bad, remind yourself, over and over  that it will pass, the waves will come, but they always go away too. It's just sensations  and they can't hurt you. 

 

 Thanks Fresh.   Love your spirit.

[Tilly]

  Hi Dalsaan,  when I took Mianserin, I  felt really tired. It knocked me out at night and then I felt drugged all day. That is why I stopped it so soon - ( 6 days). 

 

Thanks Alto, for clarifying some things for me. I will read up on those links.  For now I will continue as I have been, which is off all drugs,

even though it was C/T . I feel my history is too erratic, and too far along now to reinstate.  It would have been preferable, obviously, but I just didn't know that before I joined  S. A. 

 

Thanks Cali, and Pre for checking in.      I'm not doing so well. I have very intense emotions that can just come out of the blue, or can be set off by any frustrating circumstance -  ( people, weather, traffic , "news"  etc. )   I can  also feel the "dark cloud" of " depression", looming.   I'm trying to be accepting of this as "withdrawal", but some days are hard. 

 

Ali

Hi Ali,

 

I'm so sorry to hear that you are struggling. The feelings that you are having can feel so overwhelming. Keep reminding yourself that it is temporary and will pass. Easier said than done on the hard days, I know. I hope that these feelings lift and you get some relief very soon.

 

Be gentle with yourself. You are not alone.

 

Tilly x

[AliG]

  Thanks Tilly.  You're right. The feelings are so overwhelming. !!   I can't help feeling , tonight like I'm sinking.   I'm just trying to get through each moment.  Thanks.

[Tilly]

Aww, bless you Ali. I really feel for you.

 

Are you able to distract yourself at all? What usually helps you? 

[AliG]

  Distracting myself with the " S. A " website and general  " computer"  stuff.  Searching for answers.   I'm smart and need to know, what's happening.  However, lot's of brain cells, have gone.    Lot's of "regret" tonight.   

[AliG]

I'm so sad tonight about what this has done to me and everyone here. I've probably been reading too much. Totally neuro at the moment. Can't sleep - it's 2.45am here and I know tomorrow will be another non- productive day. Trying to be patient.  In the meantime - life is slipping away.

[Tilly]

I've had days like this recently, Ali. Life is too short for regrets. It is horrendous what has been done to us. However, we can and will get through it and enjoy our lives. We've been hurt for long enough. It's time for us to be gentle with ourselves and show ourselves some long overdue care.

 

Try to rest, Ali. You must be exhausted with all of these emotions.

 

Show yourself some kindness and rest your weary mind.

 

Speak soon.

 

Tillyx

[Martina23]

Ali, I feel the same, anger, pity, thoughts that my life is over, then anxiety what has to become of my children, if I can be trusted. It is awful. I bought today my daughter such a dress like princess, I am so afraid that it would never be like before. I am sorry that you feel the same. And I am sorry about your marriage also. I dont know how is it to be married, my boyfriend left me immediately when I went pregnant. I loved him very much, but I think in this time I was very unripe. I think I did not behave to him always very well, now I am sorry for it but I cant change it anymore. But we did not know each other very long. Nevertheless our children are very nice and now my daughter Emily will look like Primaballerina... I hope you are better, hugs, Martina

[Meimeiquest]

I thought this from beyondmeds.com was helpful. Note that she is talking about intense feelings post-meds. http://beyondmeds.com/2014/11/22/choice-and-emotion/

[calithebold]

Ali I hope you get to have an easier day today, you are in my thoughts, be gentle with you!

[Tilly]

Hi Ali,

 

You have been in my thoughts since we spoke yesterday. You had such a tough day.

 

Did you manage to rest and get some sleep? I hope so. It really does help.

 

I hope that your day is kind to you.

 

Take good care and speak soon.

 

Tilly x

[jen84]

AliG, thank you for stopping by my page. Thanks for your kind words as well. I'm half way through reading your thread, but need to go to work, i will catch up later.