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Serenity23: Neurological symptoms - medical, stress, or SSRI withdrawal?


Serenity23

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You have probably already been given these previously in your thread ..sorry im too lazy to check it.

SA recommends 2 supplements: Omega-3 Fish Oil and Magnesium.

 

Ok I will start with the 10% taper and increase the cut after 2 weeks if I feel well, but after a month if I don't. I'm assuming from what I've read on SA that as one approaches the tiny doses, that's when things get more rough and so staying on lower doses for a longer time is more helpful, is that correct?

I would see the month out first on the first cut rather than 2 weeks even if feeling well at two weeks

There is no hard and fast rule that i know of ..things can get rough right from the getgo. But as a general rule yeah the lower the slower but this is already built in to the taper advice anyway with each consecutive drop getting smaller.

 

Here's something to think about:

imo, You might like to consider given  long term use of these drugs and your taper concerns to start the taper at 5% many people here are going slower than 10%. Once you trigger wdl it can be quite a task to reign back in. I would make stability a priority rather than insurance company requirements.

And if you have to pay more for the drug for a month or two more than you thought then that is a minor issue. Also if you keep the symptoms manageable then you wont need the xanax. :)

 

What am i doing for wdl induced insomnia....thats an easy one to answer ...i'm doing absolutely nothing i simply go with it.

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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Hi, Serenity,

 

Ok I will start with the 10% taper and increase the cut after 2 weeks if I feel well, but after a month if I don't. I'm assuming from what I've read on SA that as one approaches the tiny doses, that's when things get more rough and so staying on lower doses for a longer time is more helpful, is that correct?

 

Many people find things get harder when they get lower -- some do not.  As usual, listen to your body.

 

 

 

Must I feel 100% before making the next cut? How do you all determine the decision based upon the severity of side effects?

 

This is one of the toughest questions, Serenity.  For the most part, none of us feel "100%" as we go through this process.  If you look through the site find BrassMonkey's discussion of "withdrawal normal" -- that state we have of "stuff that doesn't feel great but we know how to manage it."  If you are at that state of "withdrawal normal" then I think it is safe to cut.  If you are in an active wave I would be more likely to defer.

 

 

Some days my lethargy is so bad, (though not lately) that brushing my teeth and getting dressed takes all the energy I can muster. That is why I am concerned I won't have the energy to exercise. How do you all deal with days when you have extreme lethargy mixed in with anxiety? Those are the worst. Thankfully I haven't had them in a couple of months but I'm not sure what to expect with the tapering.

 

The other question I have is driving. How do you all deal with driving while having side effects? This question then leads me to the question on caffeine. I am planning on stopping my 1 cup 1/2 caf coffee but will be continuing my tea (green, white, oolong) if I can. I have in the past, however, turned to a cup of coffee if I need to drive and the lethargy is unbearable. How do you all deal with this issue? And do you think I would be able to still tolerate tea? I know I am chemically sensitive so I'm hoping this won't be issue. When you all talk about caffeine on here, are you just referring to coffee or does this include tea?

 

Hopefully, as you get stronger over time and if you are tapering slowly and well, the lethargy won't be that great.  If it is there may be times you need to change your schedule to accommodate.  If you get into the habit of using caffeine to offset the tiredness you can create a negative spiral.  Some people can deal with caffeine and some can't -- you need to find out what triggers you.

 

 

When you all get a migraine during tapering, what do you do? Coffee or Excedrin Migraine usually help me, but I'm thinking it'd be best to avoid those.

 

I don't get migraines (thankfully) but basic headaches I usually gut out.  If you are getting relief from coffee and/or Excedrin you need to make a judgment as to whether you can "get through it" or need to function and thus need to take something.  If you are having them regularly it may be a sign of something else being "off" in your system.  

 

 

 

What do you all do for withdrawal induced insomnia

 

If you google "survivingantidepressants.org and insomnia" there are multiple threads discussing sleep issues.  Many, many, many ideas.

 

 

 

How do you all decide which supplements to take? I remember last year trying to read things on SA and just getting completely confused and overwhelmed about the supplements and people's reactions to them. Are there ones that seem to work best for generic zoloft withdrawal? I want to try Magnesium, for example, but the amount of differing opinions on which type to take makes my head spin.

 

Do the same thing to search for supplements.  The ones we typically recommend are fish oil and magnesium.  Check the threads on both.  Start slow and add if they help and are not activating for you.

 

 

 

How often should I post here once I start tapering? How do I strike that delicate balance between posting here, but not having my withdrawal symptoms lead to health anxiety, which I'm prone to?

 

I would think that you will find a balance once you get going.  There is no magic.  Some people gain comfort on this site knowing that there are others out there that are similarly situated and "get it".  Others post once in a while just to "check in."  Some post a few times and never come back.  You need to figure out what is right for you.

 

In fact, Serenity, that seems to be the key for you -- find out what is right FOR YOU.  While we are happy to support, this is really your journey and nobody knows you better than you.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012

increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement

Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first")

Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15

Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid 
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15

Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016

10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg.  No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold.

After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation

Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C,

 

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  • 1 year later...

Wow I haven't been on for a long time. I'll try to be brief with my update.

I stayed on the 25mg Zoloft all this time. I was too afraid to try a taper, even though I did have a liquid zoloft filled. I respect my former pdoc for going along with my wishes and respecting me as a patient. However, I think it would have been a big mistake to try to get off the Zoloft again, and I wish he had said that to me clearly and directly but with care, reminding me of what happened in 2015 when I tried to. i would've listened.


My migraines recently have seemed to decreased in frequency, intensity, and duration. I'm surprised. I haven't done anything different. This makes me wonder if they were hormonal, or if my brain has just settled down from what happened in 2015.

My sensitivity to the heat/temperature/hydration this summer seems to be much better than last summer, although it is still there. I also am still sensitive to changes in sleep.

The best news, however, is that I am on Lamictal with the Zoloft, and I have never felt this good. The side effects are manageable but best part is that I'm not obsessing over them, or anything. Lamictal-25mg--has helped my brain slow down. My emotions are level. I can process things calmly and clearly. I have never had this experience with any of the SSRIs or SSNRIs I was on, and I've tried to so many of them. I don't feel foggy or flat. This is an amazing experience for me. I also changed pdocs, and I am extremely happy with how my new one asks questions to get information out of me that I have trouble verbalizing. The prompting helps me a lot. He's clear, direct, and I really like how he explains things about the mind.

I am also on Melatonin because of a side effect I was experiencing from the Lamictal (horrendous racing thoughts when I went to sleep, and when I woke up). It helped about 90% with that side effect. It leaves me a little groggy in the morning and I experience negative dreams (I don't know if I'd actually call them nightmares, because my brain doesn't react to them like nightmares), but the benefits outweight the annoyances.

I will update my signature.

Thanks to everyone in the past who put up with me long detailed emails and my inability to process advice, information, and suggestions. It is such a relief to finally have a brain that can function better. It seems like the lamictal is bringing the anxiety on one end of the spectrum and the depression on the other end of the spectrum, to a more balanced place. They still exist but it seems to be changing. I think the depression is more noticeable than the anxiety, but I will bring this up to my doctor.

Another wonderful thing, is that the Lamictal seemed to help my OCD, if that's what it is, how I usually have to feed the compulsion to read everything I can about a new medication or something, compulsively researching it and gathering information. I haven't felt that compulsion this time around.

Perhaps all this time, I've been one of those people who got worse on SSRIs and needed something like Lamictal instead.

I wanted to also mention that when I was able to discipline myself to do meditation, that helped a lot. On the days that my mind chatter was just too excessive, guided meditations were helpful. I use Insight Timer. Calm is another good app, too.

One thing I greatly appreciate from my former pdoc, is when I told him that I was "eating clean" and following a "gold standard" of nutrition, that I thought it would cure my depression/anxiety. He repeated it back to me. Hearing him say my words clearly and directly made me see that this was foolish. Perhaps this might help someone with a temporary depressed/anxious state, but not someone like me. Does it help when I eat well? Logically, yes. But it certainly was not a cure.

I have not been able to consistently exercise or do yoga, but I noticed last week after a walk with a friend--and with the Lamictal and not just generic zoloft--I felt extremely well afterward. I am hoping that slowly this will become a habit for me. I have found that exercise has always had an even larger benefit for me than eating extremely healthy--which helps, but only to a point. Cutting out or moderating the obvious things--alcohol, caffeine sugar--helps but didn't cure.

Since 1990s: Various meds depression/anxiety. A little benefit from Effexor; Zoloft/Sertraline. Unsuccessful tapers

Feb 2015: Neurological crash / Hemiplegic Migraine after Sertraline taper slower than pdoc's suggestion 50-37-25-12-6-0mg.

Found SA. Reinstated 25mg Sertraline

July 2015:  Medical occurrence thought to be due to Sertraline. Told to D/C. Hypomania/anxiety resulted. Reinstated

Sept 2016: Increased to 37mg Sertraline due to depression/anxiety symptoms or more likely withdrawal symptoms

Dec 2016: Insurance company refused to fill 37mg (1 1/2 pills) Given 25mg.

2017: Started taper, got fearful of possible withdrawal effects, stopped.
May 2018: Still dealing with side effects. New pdoc. 25mg Lamictal added to 25mg Sertraline. 5 mg Melatonin added. Feeling better. Would still like to wean off Sertraline and then Lamictal, but holding for now. I have a very sensitive system with meds.

No other meds. Supplements: Multivitamin, Vitamin D, Probiotic, Fish oil.

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On 1/2/2017 at 8:21 PM, nz11 said:

You have probably already been given these previously in your thread ..sorry im too lazy to check it.

SA recommends 2 supplements: Omega-3 Fish Oil and Magnesium.

 

I apologize if this has been answered already, but what form of Magnesium and Omega 3 is recommended and how many milligrams? Thank you.

 

I've also read that Magnesium helps with migraines.

Since 1990s: Various meds depression/anxiety. A little benefit from Effexor; Zoloft/Sertraline. Unsuccessful tapers

Feb 2015: Neurological crash / Hemiplegic Migraine after Sertraline taper slower than pdoc's suggestion 50-37-25-12-6-0mg.

Found SA. Reinstated 25mg Sertraline

July 2015:  Medical occurrence thought to be due to Sertraline. Told to D/C. Hypomania/anxiety resulted. Reinstated

Sept 2016: Increased to 37mg Sertraline due to depression/anxiety symptoms or more likely withdrawal symptoms

Dec 2016: Insurance company refused to fill 37mg (1 1/2 pills) Given 25mg.

2017: Started taper, got fearful of possible withdrawal effects, stopped.
May 2018: Still dealing with side effects. New pdoc. 25mg Lamictal added to 25mg Sertraline. 5 mg Melatonin added. Feeling better. Would still like to wean off Sertraline and then Lamictal, but holding for now. I have a very sensitive system with meds.

No other meds. Supplements: Multivitamin, Vitamin D, Probiotic, Fish oil.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hmm I'm not sure why no one is replying to my thread?

I had a question and I apologize if I've already asked it, but I'm much more clear headed now and able to focus. It's about Zoloft/Sertraline. I'm done trying to speak up for myself, trying to say that it makes me extremely unmotivated, lazy, wanting to just sleep all day, procrastinate, etc. No one believed me, they said it was the "depression". My new pdoc, however, says I need to "push" myself. I like what he says. I really do want to push myself, but I keep listening to the stuff in my head that makes me feel like this. How do I push myself and push through the lack of motivation, laziness, etc that the Zoloft/Sertraline causes?

My new pdoc did suggest I take the Zoloft/Sertraline at night instead of the morning and see if that helps. But since my system seems so super sensitive to these darn medication, I am unsure how to do that. I mean, if I take 25mg of it in the morning, do I take 25mg that night? Or do I skip a morning, and take 25mg that night?

Will taking it at night help?

I am also curious if now that I'm on 25mg Lamictal, can I just stop the 25mg Zoloft without my neurological system crashing again? I haven't told my new pdoc about that yet, because we hadn't really talked about it. Plus, I know that pdocs are taught that once you do a slow wean, you should be able to get off of SSRIs without an issue. I don't want him to think that I'm being disrespectful by bringing up that that was not my experience.

What concrete suggestions do you all have?

Because of Zoloft, I have basically not been able to leave the couch for a few years. I mean, I leave the house but my energy level, motivation, etc is nothing like it used to be years ago.

Please help me figure out how to push myself through this darn zoloft side effects, and help me help myself.

Since 1990s: Various meds depression/anxiety. A little benefit from Effexor; Zoloft/Sertraline. Unsuccessful tapers

Feb 2015: Neurological crash / Hemiplegic Migraine after Sertraline taper slower than pdoc's suggestion 50-37-25-12-6-0mg.

Found SA. Reinstated 25mg Sertraline

July 2015:  Medical occurrence thought to be due to Sertraline. Told to D/C. Hypomania/anxiety resulted. Reinstated

Sept 2016: Increased to 37mg Sertraline due to depression/anxiety symptoms or more likely withdrawal symptoms

Dec 2016: Insurance company refused to fill 37mg (1 1/2 pills) Given 25mg.

2017: Started taper, got fearful of possible withdrawal effects, stopped.
May 2018: Still dealing with side effects. New pdoc. 25mg Lamictal added to 25mg Sertraline. 5 mg Melatonin added. Feeling better. Would still like to wean off Sertraline and then Lamictal, but holding for now. I have a very sensitive system with meds.

No other meds. Supplements: Multivitamin, Vitamin D, Probiotic, Fish oil.

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  • Administrator

Good to hear from you again, Serenity. I am glad you are feeling better.

 

I'll address the most important points first. Please read the below carefully and answer any questions.

 

On 6/11/2018 at 5:54 AM, Serenity23 said:

The best news, however, is that I am on Lamictal with the Zoloft, and I have never felt this good. The side effects are manageable but best part is that I'm not obsessing over them, or anything. Lamictal-25mg--has helped my brain slow down. My emotions are level. I can process things calmly and clearly. I have never had this experience with any of the SSRIs or SSNRIs I was on, and I've tried to so many of them. I don't feel foggy or flat.

....
I am also on Melatonin because of a side effect I was experiencing from the Lamictal (horrendous racing thoughts when I went to sleep, and when I woke up). It helped about 90% with that side effect. It leaves me a little groggy in the morning and I experience negative dreams (I don't know if I'd actually call them nightmares, because my brain doesn't react to them like nightmares), but the benefits outweight the annoyances.
....
Perhaps all this time, I've been one of those people who got worse on SSRIs and needed something like Lamictal instead.

 

By coincidence, your doctor has stumbled on the one drug that can be used sometimes to calm the dyautonomia of prolonged withdrawal syndrome -- lamotrigine. It happened to work for you.

 

Read these carefully:

 

One theory of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome

 

Lamictal (lamotrigine) to calm post-discontinuation withdrawal symptoms

 

You are not one of those people who "needs" lamotrigine for a psychiatric disorder. You are a person with prolonged withdrawal syndrome who is taking something that is calming your withdrawal symptoms.

 

Those "horrendous racing thoughts" you experienced as a side effect of Lamictal indicate the dosage is too high for you. When the dosage is too high, lamotrigine can be paradoxical -- activating rather than calming. You might be able to reduce this by split dosing -- taking part earlier in the day and part later. (I might take 10mg earlier and 15mg later -- lamotrigine comes in 5mg tablets.)

 

Did lamotrigine ever give you a headache or make you queasy? When did you start it? Did you start it at 25mg?

 

If you can reduce lamotrigine side effects, you can reduce the melatonin and its side effects.

 

On 6/26/2018 at 7:17 AM, Serenity23 said:

I'm done trying to speak up for myself, trying to say that [Zoloft] makes me extremely unmotivated, lazy, wanting to just sleep all day, procrastinate, etc. No one believed me, they said it was the "depression".

 

On 6/26/2018 at 7:17 AM, Serenity23 said:

My new pdoc did suggest I take the Zoloft/Sertraline at night instead of the morning and see if that helps. But since my system seems so super sensitive to these darn medication, I am unsure how to do that. I mean, if I take 25mg of it in the morning, do I take 25mg that night? Or do I skip a morning, and take 25mg that night?

Will taking it at night help?

 

You are still experiencing side effects of Zoloft. Many doctors are as ignorant of side effects as they are of tapering and withdrawal symptoms. I am sorry you have not been heard. Many people here have had that experience.

 

If the Zoloft makes you groggy during the day, you might move it to nighttime by taking it an hour later each day.

 

However, you still may continue to have side effects. Having side effects means the dosage of the drug is too high for you.

 

On 6/26/2018 at 7:17 AM, Serenity23 said:

I am also curious if now that I'm on 25mg Lamictal, can I just stop the 25mg Zoloft without my neurological system crashing again? I haven't told my new pdoc about that yet, because we hadn't really talked about it. Plus, I know that pdocs are taught that once you do a slow wean, you should be able to get off of SSRIs without an issue. I don't want him to think that I'm being disrespectful by bringing up that that was not my experience.

What concrete suggestions do you all have?

Because of Zoloft, I have basically not been able to leave the couch for a few years. I mean, I leave the house but my energy level, motivation, etc is nothing like it used to be years ago.

 

Those are fairly common side effects of Zoloft. How long have you been taking lamotrigine? Please update your signature with the date you started it.

 

You can taper off Zoloft very carefully when we can ascertain you are stable on lamotrigine. You will need that liquid again.

 

On 6/11/2018 at 5:54 AM, Serenity23 said:

I wanted to also mention that when I was able to discipline myself to do meditation, that helped a lot. On the days that my mind chatter was just too excessive, guided meditations were helpful. I use Insight Timer. Calm is another good app, too.

 

This is an important life skill! Congratulations on learning it.

 

On 6/11/2018 at 6:07 AM, Serenity23 said:

 

I apologize if this has been answered already, but what form of Magnesium and Omega 3 is recommended and how many milligrams? Thank you.

 

I've also read that Magnesium helps with migraines.

 

Do you have migraines? Did they start or get worse when you started lamotrigine?

 

Please read our topics about fish oil and magnesium
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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1 hour ago, Altostrata said:
Quote

 

Good to hear from you again, Serenity. I am glad you are feeling better.


 

Thank you, Alostrata. 🙂

 

I accidentally deleted your sentence. You said to please read carefully and answer your questions. Thank you, I will do so.

 

Quote

By coincidence, your doctor has stumbled on the one drug that can be used sometimes to calm the dyautonomia of prolonged withdrawal syndrome -- lamotrigine. It happened to work for you.

WOW. I seriously don't know what to say. I can honestly say that I feel like the real me is pushing through the haze of the Zoloft. It's still there, but I feel something. I am trying to not be angry that psychiatrists and the drug companies will not admit that people are experiencing withdrawal syndrome. I never felt right on SSRIs or SSNRIs. I wish they had listened to me. I wish they had listened to me, when I told them that I didn't think I had "returning depression and anxiety" when I tapered off the meds, but that I was experiencing withdrawal symptoms from my very sensitive system.

I am very confident with my new pdoc, but I doubt he'd say this, if he did know it. I'm assuming most psychiatrists aren't going to say something unless the scientific research is there. I don't think that's fair. I still remember when I told my former pdoc about the weird zapping in my head I got when I weaned off Effexor following his instructions. It was what he didn't say, that said it all.

Interestingly enough, when I asked my new pdoc what his treatment plan was for me regarding the 25mg Zoloft, his reaction was strange. He answered the question a bit quickly and uncomfortably, if that makes sense. So perhaps there is some knowledge about this. I'm going to assume he doesn't want to shock my system or something? I trust him a lot and I have confidence in him. But I did read on Dr. Google that for BP2, that I'll need to be on an antidepressant since Lamictal doesn't really help with depression. I'm not sure I want to come out and say "Do you think I don't have BP2, but instead this is all due to long term usage of antidepressants, and my reactions to withdrawing from them?" I do not want to insult him. Thoughts?
 

Quote

 

Thank you for these links!! After replying here, I am going to print them out and read them very slowly and very carefully. Maybe it'll turn out that he thinks I am having post-discontinuation withdrawal symptoms but couldn't state that for insurance purposes, who knows. Or maybe I do have BP 2 and that'd be fine, too, and at this point in my life I don't care what he wants to call it, I just want to feel better already!!! It's been 30 years.

 

Quote

 

You are not one of those people who "needs" lamotrigine for a psychiatric disorder. You are a person with prolonged withdrawal syndrome who is taking something that is calming your withdrawal symptoms.


 

I cannot wait to tell my husband this!!! You have no idea. No one would believe me about the prolonged withdrawal syndrome. One of my sisters is married to a doctor (not a pdoc though) and she didn't believe me. She also said, "You went off the meds. Your depression/anxiety came back. You need to go back on them." It was bad enough being in the neurological unit for 5 days, and they didn't believe me, either. They thought it was "stress". One nurse thought I might be "faking" it, because I remembered a couple of symptoms I forgot to mention after reading the material on strokes. It was a terrible experience. Then the doctor made me feel bad about running a test that was expensive. And the physical therapist yelled at me "stop being anxious!!" or something like that, when my balance was all wonky. I couldn't help the balance issues. My neurological system went haywire, what was I supposed to do. If someone had looked at me in the eye and said, "Serenity, you are experiencing this because of prolonged withdrawal syndrome", I would have sighed a huge sigh of relief. Even my family physician, who I trust very much, too, wanted me to go on a much higher dosage of Zoloft. It is hard for me to go against a doctor's wishes, but I just knew in my gut that that wasn't the answer for me. I don't fault them, because this is how they're taught. I fault the drug companies for not being honest or doing enough longitudinal studies. And I fault the drug reps for not telling the truth to the doctors.

 

Quote

Those "horrendous racing thoughts" you experienced as a side effect of Lamictal indicate the dosage is too high for you. When the dosage is too high, lamotrigine can be paradoxical -- activating rather than calming. You might be able to reduce this by split dosing -- taking part earlier in the day and part later. (I might take 10mg earlier and 15mg later -- lamotrigine comes in 5mg tablets.)


Oh wow. That is super surprising. It happened on only 25mg. Fortunately, my new pdoc very firmly, directly, and bluntly said "DO NOT GO HIGHER ON THE LAMICTAL." So I guess he is seeing first hand just how sensitive my system is. He is holding me at 25mg. The 5mg Melatonin completely wiped out the racing thoughts. That being said, a few years ago when I went up to 50mg lamotrigine, I had a psychotic reaction. I was told I was sensitive to meds. Unfortunately my pdoc I don't think believes in the genetic testing that tests medicine sensitivity. I respect that. Perhaps the scientific research just isn't there. But I would like to get it tested for my own sake. I know I've been sensitive to meds my entire life. I guess I have to be extremely thankful that he's going slow with me.

I did have 2-3 days where Lamotrigine was rather a bit too activating and it made me irritable/agitated. I thought it was because I didn't take it at the time I was supposed to. I took it 90 minutes later. I had to take a Xanax to calm me down, which I loathe doing. Fortunately I only took 0.25mg which I'm told is a tiny dosage. I like your idea about splitting the dosage. Right now, I'm feeling "up" without feeling manic. I still feel level and calm. But I will have to keep an eye on things if it causes me to feel hypomanic or something like that. Now I see why my therapist mentioned things to me today that seemed out of the blue. I think she was protecting me in case it did cause me to have an activating effect. I'm thinking neither my pdoc or therapist said it, because they know I have a h/o health anxiety/OCD and if I was told the medication could make me too activated, than I might end up with a self fullfilling prophecy. She did mention something to me to have my husband involved in, so I will mention this to him. I know what I do when I become too activated, and he can help me have the awareness of it happening.
 

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Did lamotrigine ever give you a headache or make you queasy? When did you start it? Did you start it at 25mg?


Lamotrigine didn't give me a headache, although I do have a h/o migraines. I did feel some side effects, but they didn't bother me. A few times, I had bad jaw or joint pain but it was very short lasting. The first week I was very foggy, clumsy, off-balanced, could not even focus enough to write an email, dizzy, slow-ed thinking. But that went away by week 2. I had many 3-4 days of feeling dizzy/sort of double vision (including yesterday, and I had to cancel plans with people who I couldn't just say "I'm on new meds and my system is sensitive still, sorry!), but it wasn't horrible. The worst has been, I feel an itch, I look down, and I have redness on the spot. Usually the redness goes away in a few minutes. Sometimes it is accompanied by a dot. But it's not "thee rash" that's deadly. That being said, if anyone is reading this post, please do not take this to mean if you have redness, it's okay. You must call your doctor or pharmacist with any sign of a rash with this medication.
 

I started it one month ago this week. I started it at 25mg. I think I had the racing thoughts immediately, but I didn't call my doctor until about 3 days later. That's when I started the Melatonin. I am so thankful that worked. I don't care that it gives me "bad dreams". They're not nightmares, and I can deal with a couple of bad dreams if it means the racing thoughts stop. They were bad, and I had them when I went to sleep and when I woke up.

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If you can reduce lamotrigine side effects, you can reduce the melatonin and its side effects.


 

I'm not sure I understand this. How does one reduce side effects??

 

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You are still experiencing side effects of Zoloft. Many doctors are as ignorant of side effects as they are of tapering and withdrawal symptoms. I am sorry you have not been heard. Many people here have had that experience.

I do realize this, and I thank you for clearly, directly validating it and stating it like you did. I am so scared that I will never get off Zoloft. I even asked if I could switch to something else, but I don't think he wants to go there right now. I'm assuming he wants to take changes with me very slowly. There's part of me that worries if we remove the Zoloft, I'll get hypomanic again and who knows if the Lamotrigine will help with that, if it starts to be too activating instead of calming.
 

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If the Zoloft makes you groggy during the day, you might move it to nighttime by taking it an hour later each day.


 

Oh!! So THAT'S how you do it! Sorry see my brain doesn't work anymore. I need everything spelled out for me. The Zoloft makes me groggy, unmotivated, lazy, procrastinating, full of inertia and very difficult to push myself off the couch. It sucks. Thankfully my pdoc tries to tell me how to push myself and not listen to the Zoloft. I appreciate that, but I still am struggling. It's hard to explain, but it's like Zoloft makes me have this "space" between wanting to do something, and actually doing it. Does that make sense? I stay suck in the "space".

 

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However, you still may continue to have side effects. Having side effects means the dosage of the drug is too high for you.

Hmm that's interesting. Side effects from the Zoloft or the Lamotrigine? Is it strange I'm on such low dosages of both but still having side effects?


 

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Those are fairly common side effects of Zoloft. How long have you been taking lamotrigine? Please update your signature with the date you started it.


 

I was never told those are common side effects of Zoloft. But again, my new pdoc seems to be believing me and wants to help me through this. I'm not saying my former pdoc didn't believe me, but he just wasn't the right fit for me. I will update my signature. I started Lamotrigine May 2018.

 

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You can taper off Zoloft very carefully when we can ascertain you are stable on lamotrigine. You will need that liquid again.


 

I think this time I will be more able to do this!! The other times on SA here, I just couldn't focus on everyone's posts and suggestions. It's hard to explain. Everything back then made me overwhelmed which made me anxious. I feel like my brain is slowing down yet waking up on the Lamotrigine. I am no longer scared to do the taper. I don't know if my new pdoc will give me the liquid version of it again, and I'm assuming my other one has expired. But I think he will respect me in that he will be willing to have a conversation with me about it.

I forgot if I mentioned it or not, but I had a new pdoc a few years ago. After just meeting me for 20 minutes, she accused me of being "paranoid" when I just politely and curiously asked her why she was wanted to switch me to a mood stabilizing drug, if my pdoc who'd seen me for 8 years had me on SSRI's/SSNRI's. I am an intelligent woman and I just like to be informed of what my doctors are thinking. Plus I am a health professional, although far from a doctor. I do not know why accused me of being "paranoid", but it was a very negative experience. I wasn't being accusatory, bitchy, demanding, assertive, or anything like that. I was just curious and I wanted to understand. I know how sensitive my body is to medications.

I should also write something else here. I am disappointed with my former pdoc. I thought he trusted me better than this. My new pdoc needed to know how much lamictal and for how long I was on it, so he called him. I couldn't find it in my records/notes. He kept saying that he didn't give me that medication, and rattled off all the other ones. I wouldn't take no for an answer (thank you to the lamictal for waking me back up out of this horrible fog....). I called back 3 more times. Twice the receptionist told me that he said he never gave me Lamictal, and again rattled off all the other SSRIs and SSNRIs we had tried. Finally by the third time, he got on the phone and told me he never gave me lamictal. I calmly told him the month/year I was on it. Guess what, he found it in his notes.... I don't want to think that he did this on purpose because he was worried I was going to sue him or something because of the awful reaction I had when he increased the dosage, but it just leaves me with a really bad feeling and wondering what the heck that was all about......... He never appeared to me to be disorganized, and I thought we had had a good doctor/patient relationship for the most part.
 

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This is an important life skill! Congratulations on learning it.

Sorry I'm still a bit slow to the catch. What is an important life skill? What did I finally learn? I'm not being funny, I'm being serious.


 

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Do you have migraines? Did they start or get worse when you started lamotrigine?


 


Wait a second. Migraines can start or worsen due to lamotrigine? Well this is where things get super tricky. I was in an MVA in '93, in which I was hit perpendicularly and hit my head sideways against the window. I fully dislocated one TMJ and partially dislocated the other TMJ. For decades I'd get headaches/jaw aches, and neck aches, but they didn't really bother me. I figured they were "TMJ headaches". They only really bothered me for a year after the MVA.

That being said, when I was in the hospital for the neurological crash, they asked me a dozen times, "Are you sure you never had migraines?" Finally, it hit me. I was answering "No" to the question on migraines but I finally said, "I've never been told I had migraines. But I've had TMJ headaches." It turns out what I thought were TMJ headaches were more likely to be migraines. That's when they finally diagnosed me with either a "tiny stroke that couldn't be seen on the MRI", or a "hemiplegic migraine". It was not a TIA because the symptoms didn't go away for a few days.

Fortunately, my migraines while taking the lamotrigine now have not been noticeably worse. I did, however, have one day of absolute crashing fatigue and what I thought was a migraine. I forgot to tell my doctor about this, because I thought I was just dehydrated and super tired. I felt better after a large glass of water and a nap.

I will have to double check with my pdoc if I remembered to write down "migraines" on my medical history. I am knocking on wood and hoping that the migraines stay as they were. I've actually noticed they're decreasing in occurrence, which I was hoping was due to my perimenopause finally leveling off.

Now that you all know everything there is to know about my medical history, I am going to sign off and read your links you posted!! I am feeling positive that I will be able to focus on what I am reading. I will update this post most likely tomorrow after reading the links. I greatly appreciate your including them, to avoid my getting overwhelmed looking at stuff. That's getting better, but it's still there.

I am most grateful to you for an extremely clear, easy to understand and answer, post. Or maybe it's also that my brain is working a bit again. 🙂

 

Since 1990s: Various meds depression/anxiety. A little benefit from Effexor; Zoloft/Sertraline. Unsuccessful tapers

Feb 2015: Neurological crash / Hemiplegic Migraine after Sertraline taper slower than pdoc's suggestion 50-37-25-12-6-0mg.

Found SA. Reinstated 25mg Sertraline

July 2015:  Medical occurrence thought to be due to Sertraline. Told to D/C. Hypomania/anxiety resulted. Reinstated

Sept 2016: Increased to 37mg Sertraline due to depression/anxiety symptoms or more likely withdrawal symptoms

Dec 2016: Insurance company refused to fill 37mg (1 1/2 pills) Given 25mg.

2017: Started taper, got fearful of possible withdrawal effects, stopped.
May 2018: Still dealing with side effects. New pdoc. 25mg Lamictal added to 25mg Sertraline. 5 mg Melatonin added. Feeling better. Would still like to wean off Sertraline and then Lamictal, but holding for now. I have a very sensitive system with meds.

No other meds. Supplements: Multivitamin, Vitamin D, Probiotic, Fish oil.

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I updated my signature. 🙂

Kindly give me feedback as to how to make it more clear. Is it too wordy? Thank you in advance.

Since 1990s: Various meds depression/anxiety. A little benefit from Effexor; Zoloft/Sertraline. Unsuccessful tapers

Feb 2015: Neurological crash / Hemiplegic Migraine after Sertraline taper slower than pdoc's suggestion 50-37-25-12-6-0mg.

Found SA. Reinstated 25mg Sertraline

July 2015:  Medical occurrence thought to be due to Sertraline. Told to D/C. Hypomania/anxiety resulted. Reinstated

Sept 2016: Increased to 37mg Sertraline due to depression/anxiety symptoms or more likely withdrawal symptoms

Dec 2016: Insurance company refused to fill 37mg (1 1/2 pills) Given 25mg.

2017: Started taper, got fearful of possible withdrawal effects, stopped.
May 2018: Still dealing with side effects. New pdoc. 25mg Lamictal added to 25mg Sertraline. 5 mg Melatonin added. Feeling better. Would still like to wean off Sertraline and then Lamictal, but holding for now. I have a very sensitive system with meds.

No other meds. Supplements: Multivitamin, Vitamin D, Probiotic, Fish oil.

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  • Administrator
22 minutes ago, Serenity23 said:

I am very confident with my new pdoc, but I doubt he'd say this, if he did know it. I'm assuming most psychiatrists aren't going to say something unless the scientific research is there. I don't think that's fair. I still remember when I told my former pdoc about the weird zapping in my head I got when I weaned off Effexor following his instructions. It was what he didn't say, that said it all.

 

It's unlikely your psychiatrist understands you have withdrawal syndrome. But he does know the value of lamotrigine for calming, which many do not.

 

The zaps are an extremely well-documented withdrawal symptom, in all the medical journals, in every article about withdrawal symptoms. If none of the medical professionals you talked to knew this, that just shows how knowledgeable they are about going off these drugs. That is to say -- they don't know beans, and don't expect them to.

 

28 minutes ago, Serenity23 said:

The worst has been, I feel an itch, I look down, and I have redness on the spot. Usually the redness goes away in a few minutes. Sometimes it is accompanied by a dot.

 

My intuition is that dosage of lamotrigine is a bit too high for you. If I were you, I'd reduce it maybe to 20mg, in divided doses.

 

If it's made your TMJ tension worse, that's more confirmation. By the way, you might find acupuncture, chiropractic, or physical therapy useful for jaw symptoms, which can indeed cause headaches.

 

Side effects are dosage-related. Generally, if you reduce the dosage, side effects will reduce.

 

You have learned meditation, and that's a strength. You will need to control your health anxiety, because either you will need to manage your tapering and symptoms on your own, or you will need to accept it that everyone you talk to will be repeating the common wisdom about the benefits of these drugs and where you're going wrong.

 

It's highly unlikely you have any variety of bipolar disorder, including bipolar II, which is a wastebasket diagnosis for anyone who doesn't fit in the other baskets. Having a good response to lamotrigine is not diagnostic.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Hi Altostrata, (and anyone else who would like to reply) 🙂

Thank you again for extremely helpful information!!


I need to call my pdoc tomorrow. I am having a very strange and disrupting symptom that I hope will go away in time. It feel like my eyeballs behind my eyes are moving in circles. It's hard to explain. When I look at an object, I feel like I am not really looking at it. It's not blurry, double vision, vertigo, or a lack of focus. It feels like movement behind my eyeballs are keeping me from looking straight on something. I hope that makes sense. I wish there was a word for this so I can tell my doctor. It's not affecting my balance or anything, but it is making me slightly nausea. I'm still able to type, but it feels weird.

Also do you have any tips at all for pushing myself? I'm not feeling depressed or lethargic but I can't seem to push myself to clean, walk, do stuff. I still think that's from the Zoloft and SSRI withdrawal in general. I hate being this out of shape but I can't seem to PUSH.

Thank you again, you are a life saver!! Best replies to a post on a forum EVER. I have printed out your links but have to reread them. My concentration and focus just wasn't there. I will try again. Once I am able to focus, my focus is usually very good.

~Serenity

Since 1990s: Various meds depression/anxiety. A little benefit from Effexor; Zoloft/Sertraline. Unsuccessful tapers

Feb 2015: Neurological crash / Hemiplegic Migraine after Sertraline taper slower than pdoc's suggestion 50-37-25-12-6-0mg.

Found SA. Reinstated 25mg Sertraline

July 2015:  Medical occurrence thought to be due to Sertraline. Told to D/C. Hypomania/anxiety resulted. Reinstated

Sept 2016: Increased to 37mg Sertraline due to depression/anxiety symptoms or more likely withdrawal symptoms

Dec 2016: Insurance company refused to fill 37mg (1 1/2 pills) Given 25mg.

2017: Started taper, got fearful of possible withdrawal effects, stopped.
May 2018: Still dealing with side effects. New pdoc. 25mg Lamictal added to 25mg Sertraline. 5 mg Melatonin added. Feeling better. Would still like to wean off Sertraline and then Lamictal, but holding for now. I have a very sensitive system with meds.

No other meds. Supplements: Multivitamin, Vitamin D, Probiotic, Fish oil.

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