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☼ Nadia: There is hope!


Nadia

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Thanks, Alto. Very good advice. I guess I go back and forth between thinking I'm thinking about it too much and then thinking I'm not thinking about it enough, that there's something I should be DOING. *sigh*

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey Nadia

Sorry to hear things have been bumpy for you of late. I really think Alto makes a good point. Ive been able to find some calm in reminding myself that I've made it through all the previous setbacks; I'm still here. I even try to remind myself that there is a good chance of new crap withdrawal symptoms in the future and that I will get through those as well most likely.

 

I also spend a lot of time thinking about connections between my actions and onset of symptoms. I wonder how I can do more... And other times I think I just need to practice healthy habits, across the spectrum, and that time will take care of me.

 

For me I am coming up on two years. What a journey! I see all the ways that I am getting better and even after a really lousy 30 days I've endured recently, I believe in the basic premise more than ever. That the brain will reconstruct itself to undue iatrogenic rearrangement and that time (and my patience and adherence to the plan) needs an allowance for this to happen. I believe that believing this helps the process.

 

I know you were feeling pretty strong not long ago and know you will feel that well, and better, in the future.

 

Hang in, Nadia

 

Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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Thanks so much, Alex! I was just about to post that today I felt I had a better outlook on things. My anxiety is worse in a lot of ways, but my depression has lifted quite a bit, and I'm in a mindframe to beat this thing... which I guess means waiting it out and just being as healthy as possible, as you say! Thanks for the words of encouragement.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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Ugh... I'm sorry to even be posting about this, but I just realized I don't have anyone else to talk to about this (I've been so out of touch with friends it would be weird to pop this one out of the blue).

 

My boyfriend didn't come home last night. I called his cell phone repeatedly at night and he didn't answer. I eventually went to sleep, and I wasn't too worried, as he's done this to me many times before. I knew he was with a friend he hadn't seen in a while. But this morning when I woke up, he still hadn't come home, and he's never done that to me before. I live in big, dangerous city, so, though I'm not that much of a worrier normally, I did start to freak out. I called his cell again, no answer (but it was on). I emailed the guy he was with to see if he knew anything, didn't have the phone number (too early to get an answer). Then I thought to go see if he had stayed at his old apartment, where his brother lives now. I still had a copy of the keys. I drove over there and yes, in fact, he was there. He wasn't that surprised to see me. Just woke up, and when I told him I had been really worried, he just said something like, "oh, I'm sorry." The tension broke for me, and I went to the living room and just started crying from releasing all the worry. He came out and rubbed my back and said sorry. I was like, why didn't you call me?? And he said he got drunk and just must have passed out and fell asleep. He was being so effing nonchalant about the whole thing, though! So I got up to leave, and he said, don't leave. I was like, you know, I just can't understand what is so difficult about calling and letting me know you're not coming home, this is the limit of irresponsibility. He looked at me with this frown and said, well, OK, maybe it's irresponsible, but it's not really the LIMIT of irresponsibility is it?

 

I just left. I can't even be bothered to be angry. I just can't believe on top of everything that he's acting like it's no big deal. I'd like to see HIS reaction if I didn't come home one night and didn't answer my cell phone!

 

What sucks the most is that I was getting this anxiety thing under control and now it's set it off again. Even with all that, though, I DO want to say I am grateful that he is OK. For a little while I really thought he might not be, and above everything, for the record, I just want to stress I know that the most important thing is that he's OK.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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Hey, Nadia..I would have reacted just like you did. In flact, during this last couple of years, my nervous system has been so reactive, that i frequently am chasing the imaginary rabbit down the catastrophe hole. I'm still fighting that day to day. So your response I think is very normal and your bf should have been more adult about this situation and called you! So,now that your worn to a frazzle from this event, do something good for yourself and try to let it go. Hopefully he got the message and won't do anything so insensitive again. Hugs!

I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck.

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Nadia ~

Ditto what Spectio said

It is so difficult and frustrating to tell someone how hypersensitive I am to everything and they continue on with their usual behavior • not that I expect anyone ~let alone my husband~ to change overnite but it almost seems intentional at times •

I understand your feelings and am glad that I don't have to deal with more people

HUGS

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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Thanks, guys. I guess I have to find a way to express my anger. Aside from the crying from relief, I was really calm when I was telling him I was angry... perhaps it was a hyperbole to say that it was the limit of irresponsibility not to call, but in this kind of situation, I would think some exaggeration is normal. It's like when you say "the suspense is killing me". Arguing about semantics when it is obvious I'm trying to say that what he did is unacceptable to me just seems even more insensitive than not calling in the first place!

 

What really pisses me off is that he acted like it was no big deal and my worry was all on me (and this is aside from anything I might be going through... it's true I'm more reactive, but I'd be worried in this situation even if I was 100% OK). I mean, people here get kidnapped, assaulted, killed on a daily basis. This has happened to people we know, friends and family members, several times. My cousin was murdered by the police for running a red light on his way home from hanging out with friends. Granted, that was 1994 and things have improved, but it's not like it's crazy to worry.

 

I understand that when you're drunk you don't use your best judgment and that he's a deep sleeper anyway, so didn't hear the phone... but he could have at least called me to say he was in the process of getting drunk (I thought he was hanging out with a friend for the afternoon, didn't even know he'd be drinking or staying out late). Especially since this is an issue from before... he's done this to me many times (but never not come home... that is why I really did worry this time), and each time I tell him it is the one thing I cannot abide. That he's obviously free to do anything he wants, I don't care if he goes out to party for a whole week straight and doesn't come home, just as long as he tells me he is all right.

 

But maybe he's not taking me seriously because HE thinks I'm overreacting or oversensitive. The truth is I showed and feel less anger than I have in similar situations in the past. I just don't know... maybe I do have higher standards than normal and ask for too much. Maybe part of it is his resentment at having to deal with what I've been like lately (I'm sure no fun at all)... I mean, not the not coming home and not calling, but acting like it's not a big deal that he didn't.

 

I just can't help thinking that if the tables were turned, he'd be freaking out a whole lot more than I did. Of course, that would probably be because I have never done anything like that to him (and the only way it would happen would be for me to do it on purpose).

 

Anyway, I think what I'm most upset about now is realizing I don't have a close friend to talk to about any of this anymore. This Christmas has been really depressing. My sister is here visiting, and I feel so weird and distant from her as well. I don't even know if that is real. There certainly is some depersonalization going on for me. I'm doing all the right things, acting normal, but I sure don't feel normal. There is a fine layer of dread over everything and I don't recognize a self beyond who I've been since I stopped taking meds. Well, yes, there are some elements, but... something has changed. There are some things I think could be changing for the better (I am quicker to be assertive and defend myself now, for one, though I'm still working out the proper ways), there are others I just wish I knew how to piece together with my former self.

 

Well, getting off track... I'm going to go for a walk and the get back to work. Thanks, guys, for "listening".

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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  • Administrator

I don't care if he goes out to party for a whole week straight and doesn't come home, just as long as he tells me he is all right.

I would make this very, very clear to him and make him promise to phone you at midnight if he's partying.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Nadia~

Your way of thinking and analyzing is exactly like mine • looking at all of the angles and possible explanations and excuses instead of allowing the emotion to happen and be expressed

*Please forgive me if I'm off-base and drawing parallels where I shouldnt*

I think alot of the reason I ended up in the hands of psychiatry was the inability to express anger• Ive never lost my temper until recently • I am reading how you are looking at this from all perspectives and allowing excuses or explanations while denying your gut feelings of fear and anger

I don't have kids but this reminds me of parents who are scared crazy that something happened to their kid and react with both relief and anger when found • it seems the same reactions would happen with a missing adult (when they act like a child ;)

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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I don't care if he goes out to party for a whole week straight and doesn't come home, just as long as he tells me he is all right.

I would make this very, very clear to him and make him promise to phone you at midnight if he's partying.

 

Oh, I've repeated it many, many times. We've talked about it to death. I suppose I'll have to come up with and enforce an ultimatum on this one.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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Nadia~

Your way of thinking and analyzing is exactly like mine • looking at all of the angles and possible explanations and excuses instead of allowing the emotion to happen and be expressed

*Please forgive me if I'm off-base and drawing parallels where I shouldnt*

I think alot of the reason I ended up in the hands of psychiatry was the inability to express anger• Ive never lost my temper until recently • I am reading how you are looking at this from all perspectives and allowing excuses or explanations while denying your gut feelings of fear and anger

I don't have kids but this reminds me of parents who are scared crazy that something happened to their kid and react with both relief and anger when found • it seems the same reactions would happen with a missing adult (when they act like a child ;)

 

No, you're totally ON base (and I don't have kids, but thought about that as well, including the acting like a child thing, heh heh). I have had huge issues with not allowing myself to be angry all my life. I hold it in forever and then eventually explode. And I'm forever trying to make sure I'm being fair. I'm not near exploding on this one, and I think I did an O.K. job of expressing I was angry in the moment... but what is an underlying issue here is that if the other person doesn't think I should be angry, I end up not knowing what to do (believe me, I know on an intellectual level that is ridiculous, but I used to be punished for expressing any kind of anger as a child/teenager). Not that he said I shouldn't be angry, but his response was the "I'm sorry you felt worried" instead of the "I'm sorry I didn't call you" kind, and just kind of shrugging it off like this is the normal thing (and maybe in some relationships it is, who knows). We've been through this a million times and it's always the same thing. I sometimes get an acknowledgment that in the same situation he would worry, too, but he doesn't think it's that big a deal. To his credit, he's never promised me he'd never do it again. He's only promised to "try". But at the same time that seems pretty weak, even considering we don't have perfect control over our actions.

 

It seems drastic, but at this point probably the only thing I can do is calmly tell him that this is something that is a deal-breaker for me. That I will not tolerate it happening even once more. I obviously can't expect him to feel bad about what he did or even agree with me that it was a really sucky thing to put me through. I guess he can't understand what is the big deal with this, and I just can't understand how he can't understand! Someday maybe he'll have kids and they'll do it to him and then he'll see what it's like, heh. I don't know... I guess maybe all I wanted was a heartfelt apology. I go back and forth on what I feel... on one hand he did say "I'm sorry", which is really more than I ever get from him on stuff (he has a really hard time apologizing).

 

I'm realizing now, though, that more than anything, it's a deal-breaker for me not because I can't take feeling afraid that something happened to him when he doesn't call, but that he doesn't realize how unfair it is to me.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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Nadia~

I realized recently that I inadvertently communicate that some action (verbal or other) is 'ok' by my response or lack of response • I often don't even recognize or allow that initial gut response because I go directly to analytical mode • then like you I bottle it up until it comes out tenfold at some inappropropriatetime or the proverbial 'straw that breaks the camel's back' • so my earlier comment that I don't lose my temper isn't entirely true; when I do it is a 'Hyde' type of attack that seems disproportionate to current infraction (or so I'm told)

EX: for many years I've joked off my sister's repeated threats to kill me largely because I had no other way to cope with the complex situation • I hit my limit several months ago & cut ties but others still joke about it • I got very angry with someone and was on verge of a Hyde ambush when I

realized that I had set the joking tone for years and the other person couldn't know how deeply the joking effected me now•I'm certain I've done the same thing many times by not allowing that initial reaction to be seen (always the proper sensible level-headed one)• naturally this emotion is seen as labile because I set a very different baseline all my life and SSRIs further flatlined me•

 

I don't know your relationship but so much of what you say resonates with me-- 'HOW could he not understand how this bothers me' is a recurrent theme in my life and leads to 'why am I so unimportant/undervalued'

Somewhere along the road I auto-suppressed my feelings and reactions and (I'm learning) gave everyone the impression that I am much stronger than I truly feel • this is clearer now that I'm off ADs (though still on traz and Klonopin)

I've read a few times that SSRIs are least helpful and probably harmful to people like me/us who already suppress emotions and intellectualize feelings • it's difficult for others to *feel* our emotions after we've run them thru our analytical filter •

I don't have any good advice about how to handle your present situation but wanted to put this out there just as food for thought•

I think that certain types of therapy also encourage further rationalizations rather than peeling back layers of thought already piled on top of our intuitive and true feelings

 

I sure hope this makes sense ~I've never put that into words before

 

Regarding the 'apoligies'--I understand that frustration • it seems that people don't know what a real heartfelt apology is anymore or how to take responsibility for hurting someone's feelings even if it was unintentional

'Im sorry you felt scared' is NOT the same as 'Im sorry I scared/worried you'

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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Another thought: I'm wondering if he felt the FEAR you felt when he didn't come home or answer his phone

I tend to skip over fear or hurt and proceed directly to anger

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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  • Administrator

Nadia, I find it hard to believe that, even if there is a cultural difference between you and your significant other, he doesn't understand why he needs to check in with you so you don't worry.

 

It looks like a game to me. Maybe he's demonstrating that, while he may be committed to the relationship, you don't "own" him. This is childish but may bespeak a primal fear.

 

I suggest you get down to the bedrock of what each of you needs from the relationship. You may need him to check in, he may need something else that he's been unable to communicate, hence the game-playing.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Nadia~

I realized recently that I inadvertently communicate that some action (verbal or other) is 'ok' by my response or lack of response • I often don't even recognize or allow that initial gut response because I go directly to analytical mode • then like you I bottle it up until it comes out tenfold at some inappropropriatetime or the proverbial 'straw that breaks the camel's back' • so my earlier comment that I don't lose my temper isn't entirely true; when I do it is a 'Hyde' type of attack that seems disproportionate to current infraction (or so I'm told)

 

Somewhere along the road I auto-suppressed my feelings and reactions and (I'm learning) gave everyone the impression that I am much stronger than I truly feel • this is clearer now that I'm off ADs (though still on traz and Klonopin)

I've read a few times that SSRIs are least helpful and probably harmful to people like me/us who already suppress emotions and intellectualize feelings • it's difficult for others to *feel* our emotions after we've run them thru our analytical filter •

I don't have any good advice about how to handle your present situation but wanted to put this out there just as food for thought•

I think that certain types of therapy also encourage further rationalizations rather than peeling back layers of thought already piled on top of our intuitive and true feelings

 

Sounds just like me... and like you say, perhaps made worse by the SSRIs... though the whole time I was on them I thought I'd gotten so much better at dealing with anger. Now I'm starting to realize I just got even less assertive and was better at letting things go, which is not necessarily a good thing! I know I need to make sure I deal with things as they happen in a proportional way, before I get to the point where I lose it and lose all effectiveness as well. Dialectical Behavioral Training really helped me in this respect, but off meds, I'm realizing I have lots more work to do (as more things piss me off as well!).

 

Regarding the 'apologies'--I understand that frustration • it seems that people don't know what a real heartfelt apology is anymore or how to take responsibility for hurting someone's feelings even if it was unintentional

'Im sorry you felt scared' is NOT the same as 'I'm sorry I scared/worried you'

 

Yes, yes, yes... For me it would be like you broke someone's tail light, and they demanded compensation, but you said, "uh, well, I didn't do it on purpose", and then somehow that would get you off the hook. Sure, it's worse if you do something hurtful intentionally, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't always take responsibility!

 

So finally my boyfriend came home and we had a conversation, and his point was, over and over, that he didn't do it on purpose, and that it had been months since he did something like it. But I think I did get through in the end. I told him A) no one forced him to get drunk, and whether he lost control or not, he has to take responsibility for his actions... intentional or not intentional, B ) what hurt me most is that I felt like he was just blowing off the apology because he felt he should be off the hook since it "wasn't on purpose", C) I will no longer tolerate it happening again. If he's going to drink or go out, he better let me know beforehand. I don't want specific plans or anything even, just "I'm with a friend and we're having some drinks, so I may be home late or not at all."

 

You know what I was thinking, Barbara? You know how you've mentioned how you think depression might be rooted in suppressed anger? I felt so miserably depressed yesterday, like the anger decayed into that, and it's still pretty strong today. Like my tendency is to turn it against myself, or give up somehow. A lot of it is this feeling that by being angry, you become the bad guy. And I really have more work to do in the direction of just not caring if I'm perceived that way. It's something I really suffer with at work as well... It's like I live in this constant desire for people just to do the right thing on their own, for people to be fair and not be constantly trying to take advantage (which, especially in my line of work and where I live, is downright ridiculous to hope for). It's why I'll never be a good business person or a manager. I think I've gotten better over the years with this, but I'm still always fighting against my natural tendency to want to withdraw and avoid conflict.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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Nadia, I find it hard to believe that, even if there is a cultural difference between you and your significant other, he doesn't understand why he needs to check in with you so you don't worry.

 

It looks like a game to me. Maybe he's demonstrating that, while he may be committed to the relationship, you don't "own" him. This is childish but may bespeak a primal fear.

 

I suggest you get down to the bedrock of what each of you needs from the relationship. You may need him to check in, he may need something else that he's been unable to communicate, hence the game-playing.

 

On a previous occasion, he admitted to me he had a problem with it, as a way of trying to maintain his freedom, and as a form of rebelling, as if I was his mother...

 

Well, we'll see what happens in the long run. There are a bunch of issues we need to tackle. He's not a very communicative person, and I'm all about communication... I've been in this type of relationship before, but it was a while ago, and not to this extreme... Getting any kind of info or feedback is like pulling teeth! In so many ways he's so much more responsible and kind than other relationships I've had, but the problems get magnified because of the difficulty with communication.

 

Anyway, thanks so much for "talking" me through this. I really, really appreciate the support. I was feeling pretty lonely and isolated. I'm sorry I got sooo far off topic.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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Yep I know the pattern well

Please understand that I'm not trying to excuse his behavior in any way ~i could feel you analyzing from different viewpoints and that caught my attention because it's so familiar ~im assertive in professional and social settings but when it comes to personal relationships I completely lose my sense of self and value ~

Never learned to recognize that initial gut reaction (hurt/vulnerable) and go directly to something I feel more control with-- generally 'keeping the peace' at cost of own feelings •

And it inevitably gets buried/brushed aside and turned inward mutating to guilt and/or anger

and a depressed person not knowing why she's depressed because her life has been pretty uneventful with no fighting or bad conflicts …

And no real communication

A vicious circle

Ironic that I was a communications major ;)

I'm sorry if I led you to the analytical zone ~ it helped me recognize things also ~THANKS

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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  • Administrator

Nadia, I'm sorry for your difficulty over night and I just wanted you to know that I support you in your right to be angry and your right to be scared - there is no proportional about it.

 

I had this happen to me once. My ex-husband (he was my husband at the time) didn't come home one night and I feared that he had been killed and was lying in a street dead somewhere - we lived in a major US city where that kind of thing could definitely happen. I called everyone including his boss because he was on-call for the company he worked for. I was distraught! This was all before antidepressants and benzos. He didn't understand how I could be so upset ... it was a lack of respect.

 

We don't have to rationalize it - we have a right to expect respect from our significant others. It is out of respect that you let someone know that you will be late or you will not make it home at night. You are only asking for respect.

 

Take care and be easy on yourself.

 

Karma

2007 @ 375 mg Effexor - 11/29/2011 - 43.75 mg Effexor (regular) & .625 mg Xanax

200 mg Gabapentin 2/27/21 - 194.5 mg, 5/28/21 - 183 mg, 8/2/21 - 170 mg, 11/28/21 - 150 mg, 4/19/22 - 122 mg; 8//7/22 - 100 mg; 12/17 - 75mg; 8/17 - 45 mg; 10/16 40 mg
Xanax taper: 3/11/12 - 0.9375 mg, 3/25/12 - 0.875 mg, 4/6/12 - 0.8125 mg, 4/18/12 - 0.75 ; 10/16 40mg;

1/16 0.6875 mg; at some point 0.625 mg
Effexor taper: 1/29/12 - 40.625 mg, 4/29/12 - 39.875 mg, 5/11/12 - Switched to liquid Effexor, 5/25/12 - 38 mg, 7/6/12 - 35 mg, 8/17/12 - 32 mg, 9/14/12 - 30 mg, 10/19/12 - 28 mg, 11/9/12 - 26 mg, 11/30/12 - 24 mg, 01/14/13 - 22 mg. 02/25/13 - 20.8 mg, 03/18/13 - 19.2 mg, 4/15/13 - 17.6 mg, 8/10/13 - 16.4 mg, 9/7/13 - 15.2 mg, 10/19/13 - 14 mg, 1/15/14 - 13.2 mg, 3/1/2014 - 12.6 mg, 5/4/14 - 12 mg, 8/1/14 - 11.4 mg, 8/29/14 - 10.8 mg; 10/14/14 - 10.2 mg; 12/15/14 - 10 mg, 1/11/15 - 9.5 mg, 2/8/15 - 9 mg, 3/21/15 - 8.5 mg, 5/1/15 - 8 mg, 6/9/15 - 7.5 mg, 7/8/15 - 7 mg, 8/22/15 - 6.5 mg, 10/4/15 - 6 mg; 1/1/16 - 5.6 mg; 2/6/16 - 5.2 mg; 4/9 - 4.8 mg; 7/7 4.5 mg; 10/7 4.25 mg; 11/4 4.0 mg; 11/25 3.8 mg; 4/24 3.6 mg; 5/27 3.4 mg; 7/8 3.2 mg ... 10/18 2.8 mg; 1/18 2.6 mg; 4/7 2.4 mg; 5/26 2.15mg; 8/18 1.85 mg; 10/7 1.7 mg; 12/1 1.45 mg; 3/2 1.2 mg; 5/4 0.90 mg; 6/1 0.80 mg; 6/22 0.65 mg; 08/03 0.50 mg, 08/10 0.45 mg, 10/05 0.325 mg, 11/23 0.2 mg, 12/14 0.15 mg, 12/21 0.125 mg, 02/28 0.03125 mg, 2/15 0.015625 mg, 2/29/20 0.00 mg - OFF Effexor


I am not a medical professional - this is not medical advice. My suggestions are based on personal experience, reading, observation and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers

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Nadia, I'm sorry for your difficulty over night and I just wanted you to know that I support you in your right to be angry and your right to be scared - there is no proportional about it.

 

I had this happen to me once. My ex-husband (he was my husband at the time) didn't come home one night and I feared that he had been killed and was lying in a street dead somewhere - we lived in a major US city where that kind of thing could definitely happen. I called everyone including his boss because he was on-call for the company he worked for. I was distraught! This was all before antidepressants and benzos. He didn't understand how I could be so upset ... it was a lack of respect.

 

We don't have to rationalize it - we have a right to expect respect from our significant others. It is out of respect that you let someone know that you will be late or you will not make it home at night. You are only asking for respect.

 

Take care and be easy on yourself.

 

Karma

 

Thanks, Karma. That is exactly it... respect. I said to him I felt it was a matter of respect and trust.

 

I've gone back and forth on the "was I right to worry" thing... but you are right, it's not even a matter of whether I was "right" to worry... Even if I hadn't been worried it was still a lack of respect, given that we have a certain agreement beforehand.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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  • Administrator

If you need something from the relationship, it doesn't have to be right or even make sense -- you need it.

 

That said, Nadia, is it possible you're using these events to enact your own psychodrama of fear of abandonment? It's a kind of dance, you have interlocking moves. Maybe he wants to test how much you need him?

 

After all the mistakes I've made in relationships, from my lofty perch thousands of miles away, and with no real involvement myself, if I were you, I would be tempted to defuse the situation by giving him his way. He doesn't want to call? Fine.

 

If what you want is to make sure he's safe, make him put your contact info in his wallet, or on a dog tag, or tattoo it on his butt if you have to, in case he ends up in the police station, the hospital, or his body is found in the street.

 

I'll bet a little reverse psycho-judo will change the pattern. He still might not call, but at least you won't fight.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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That said, Nadia, is it possible you're using these events to enact your own psychodrama of fear of abandonment? It's a kind of dance, you have interlocking moves. Maybe he wants to test how much you need him?

 

After all the mistakes I've made in relationships, from my lofty perch thousands of miles away, and with no real involvement myself, if I were you, I would be tempted to defuse the situation by giving him his way. He doesn't want to call? Fine.

 

If what you want is to make sure he's safe, make him put your contact info in his wallet, or on a dog tag, or tattoo it on his butt if you have to, in case he ends up in the police station, the hospital, or his body is found in the street.

 

I'll bet a little reverse psycho-judo will change the pattern. He still might not call, but at least you won't fight.

 

It could be... the fear of abandonment. I was thinking it had more to do with leaving an escape route for myself (I'll have an excuse to get angry and break it off)... but that in itself is probably just a way to avoid abandonment... abandon before being abandoned! I don't know... it could also be my need for control. Well, it probably all comes down to the same thing.

 

What you said did make me think, though... why worry about anything ever? Either it will happen or it won't. Throughout my life I have not been much of a worrier when it comes to catastrophes... death, destruction, etc. (On the other hand, I worry a ton about silly stuff like, "how am I being perceived during this phone call?") My way of explaining my lack of worry was, why worry until it happens? I used to tell my mom that over and over when she was freaking out about something that seemed silly to me. So maybe you're right... maybe there is no need to know where anyone is ever (at least not an adult). Just as long as you have the agreement beforehand, so that you're not modifying your plans to accommodate another person's expected presence.

 

That said, right now I am in an anxious state anyway, and I do appreciate any help I can get in not activating anxiety, since I don't have complete control (or even close) over what I get anxious about. Kind of in the same way I appreciate no one making loud sounds or jokingly jumping on me from behind the door.

 

I think another factor in my worry is that it USED to be that, for cases like this, the few times I did worry in my life, something HAD happened. I had a really good knack for sensing real danger. Now that sense it totally out of whack, but I'm still prone to believing my instinct because of past experience.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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Nadia~

Your last comment strikes me --are you familiar with the concept of Higher Sense Perception or something to that effect ( Q) Shafica Karagulla first studied in the 70-80s and another team has commercialized it recently (I have zero tolerance for copycats)

It is largely based on a higher intuitive ability (some might say psychic but I'm not going to) and take in more clues from other people and environment ~

I think this tendency or ability is dulled by serotonergic agonists (though NOT by Wellbutrin or dopaminergic ones) and when taken away the incoming stimuli are more acute and may lead to anxiety /OCD and a perceptual sense of knowing things are going to happen before they do or as they do at a distance • I DON'T have this but know scientists who do ~they claim it's an ability that lies within each of us and can be nurtured • I understand it can be very disturbing to have this and not know how to handle it •

Psychometrics uses this and is emplyed by some criminal investigators ~FBI ~etc

Fascinating stuff but gets into "woo-woo"category for me

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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Nadia~

Your last comment strikes me --are you familiar with the concept of Higher Sense Perception or something to that effect ( Q) Shafica Karagulla first studied in the 70-80s and another team has commercialized it recently (I have zero tolerance for copycats)

It is largely based on a higher intuitive ability (some might say psychic but I'm not going to) and take in more clues from other people and environment ~

I think this tendency or ability is dulled by serotonergic agonists (though NOT by Wellbutrin or dopaminergic ones) and when taken away the incoming stimuli are more acute and may lead to anxiety /OCD and a perceptual sense of knowing things are going to happen before they do or as they do at a distance • I DON'T have this but know scientists who do ~they claim it's an ability that lies within each of us and can be nurtured • I understand it can be very disturbing to have this and not know how to handle it •

Psychometrics uses this and is emplyed by some criminal investigators ~FBI ~etc

Fascinating stuff but gets into "woo-woo"category for me

 

Yeah, I guess I'm too skeptical to really believe in pyschic stuff, though of course we probably are capable of a bunch of stuff science just hasn't had a way to explain. I CAN say that I am extremely sensitive, especially with what other people are feeling. I used to freak people out at parties for fun with stuff like that... you know, someone you just met, and you start telling them about what they're like and who they are. Then they're like "how do you know???" Heh. It's interesting what you say about serotonergic agonists, as I think the main reason I liked being on Zoloft so much was because it tempered the sensitivity... it was kind of like putting on emotional earplugs and being able to get some rest. Often I would be rocked by other people's emotions (especially when not expressed) so much that I couldn't function... like I could feel them even more than the other person could. I was still pretty sensitive on Zoloft, but I felt like it put me in a normal range, or at least a functional one. With withdrawal, I feel like I'm right back to being ultra-sensitive, but with distortion. For example, I can start feeling really paranoid about a work communication I had and it sends me into a down-spiral. And then I get a response and I realize I was just bad-tripping. It used to be more just a matter of magnitude... maybe I would overreact to stuff, but the stuff I was overreacting to was there (so many times I would doubt myself, but then it would turn out I was right, over and over, of course not 100%, but a really high percentage... it's saved my ass a few times in dangerous situations). Now it turns out I'm wrong over and over! I'm learning slowly not to trust my distorted emotions and let them pass. If I ever get back to my normal pattern of thinking, I'll still have a lot of practice ahead of me in dealing with the emotional overload.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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Yeah, I guess I'm too skeptical to really believe in pyschic stuff, though of course we probably are capable of a bunch of stuff science just hasn't had a way to explain. I CAN say that I am extremely sensitive, especially with what other people are feeling. I used to freak people out at parties for fun with stuff like that... you know, someone you just met, and you start telling them about what they're like and who they are. Then they're like "how do you know???" Heh. It's interesting what you say about serotonergic agonists, as I think the main reason I liked being on Zoloft so much was because it tempered the sensitivity... it was kind of like putting on emotional earplugs and being able to get some rest. Often I would be rocked by other people's emotions (especially when not expressed) so much that I couldn't function... like I could feel them even more than the other person could. I was still pretty sensitive on Zoloft, but I felt like it put me in a normal range, or at least a functional one. With withdrawal, I feel like I'm right back to being ultra-sensitive, but with distortion. For example, I can start feeling really paranoid about a work communication I had and it sends me into a down-spiral. And then I get a response and I realize I was just bad-tripping. It used to be more just a matter of magnitude... maybe I would overreact to stuff, but the stuff I was overreacting to was there (so many times I would doubt myself, but then it would turn out I was right, over and over, of course not 100%, but a really high percentage... it's saved my ass a few times in dangerous situations). Now it turns out I'm wrong over and over! I'm learning slowly not to trust my distorted emotions and let them pass. If I ever get back to my normal pattern of thinking, I'll still have a lot of practice ahead of me in dealing with the emotional overload.

 

Wow--thats amazingly like what others have described to me ~i bet Shanti might relate to this r

I personally believe we all hear 'voices' to some degree --the voices of parents/society/conscience and sometimes other people (though that might be more often feeling their feelings than actually hearing voices•

it is this realization that started me questioning when vouces were actually pathological or a variation of human experience and consciousness ~some people are more opento the cues in our environment --low latent inhibition ~

Someone did this to me in a shopping mall one day and I was actually looking around for the hidden cameras thinking I had been set up ;)

Ive since witnessed him doing this with other people --complete strangers--and there was no scientific explanation • trust me --i looked for it ×

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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  • Administrator

Nadia, I've had a similar experience. All my life, I've been able to trust my intuition. It got wiped out in withdrawal syndrome, and now I find it's not working as well any more.

 

Probably just as well for me to be more cautious and do more reality-checking.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I find that my cautious nature hinders my intuition ~ I am most comfortable with rational predictable circumstances but when I allow myself the emotional freedom I am more in touch with oddities and dangers as Nadia mentioned~

I havent ever saved myself from a dangerous event but someone more 'tuned in' saved my life at least once • whether this is psychic ability I dont know and ive personally never believed in psychics ~ even for my animals (a big business)

The TV show The Mentalist portrays this well and his character says he is NOT a psychic but more in tune to his surroundings

Transpersonal psychiatrists work in this area --quantum physics/past lives/etc

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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Hi, Nadia, just checking in on you. Hope things have quieted down since the holidays and there's less anxious moments. I was interested in what you said about being sensitive to other people' s pain and emotions. I'm that way more so with animals than people, but I really can tap into people's suffering as well. No wonder we are so vulnerable to depression and anxiety. We should be more compassionate and forgiving of oursellves but we seem to constantly place ourselves in a position of lesser importance . How do you change your self image

when you've always placed yourself and your needs secondarily to others needs. And boy, throw AD w/d into the mix and talk about challenges! Take care!

I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck.

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Hi Spectio... so true. I struggle so much with self esteem.

 

I've been up and down. I'm going out of town for a couple of days, and hoping that will help. The past four days have been downhill, waking up feeling dread and depression and this feeling like I just have to get out of my life and I'm poisoning myself for staying where I am.

 

The hardest thing with all of this is knowing which feelings to trust!

 

Thanks for checking in with me. I've meant to post an update on symptoms but haven't gotten around to it.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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Nadia ~

I hope the change of scenery helps ~it often does for me but finding the energy to make it happen is a challenge ~

Take care ~

Barb

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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Thanks, Barb.

 

I'm back from the break. I can't say I felt much better, but there were a couple of pleasant moments reading a book and sitting in the sun when I wasn't thinking about my life.

 

I vaguely remember the right way... letting things be, having more courage, finding joy in life. But right now I can't really see how to get there. I'm just stuck in this "it's too late to fix my life" kind of impasse.

 

Mid life crisis + withdrawal is no fun.

 

My dad asked me why I was so anxious the other day... he said he noticed me get that way when my boyfriend moved in with me. He thinks that's all there is to it. He just kept telling me I shouldn't feel trapped. Certainly there is some truth to what he says... one of the big things I'm stressed about it whether I stay where I am in the relationship I am and keep on trying to have a baby, or if I give up and get out of here. My boyfriend moving in was my "decision" to try for the baby and stay where I am, which in a lot of ways doesn't make me happy, no matter if I tell myself it's only temporary... another four years or so. In some ways I'm afraid it dooms me to a particular path. I've always had a hard time committing.

 

But at the same time, I don't think that crisis just neatly sums up my anxiety and depression and all the rest. I feel clear physical symptoms and I don't think it's just psychosomatic. Though who knows, the mind is a mysterious place. But I keep on thinking back to my window of being almost normal a bit ago. All the same issues were still there. But I was on vacation. I don't know if that is proof that this IS withdrawal or proof that it's just me being unhappy about my present circumstances.

 

It's just that if it's all in my head, then I feel like even more of a failure for not just "getting over it". I'm tired of the tired, uncomprehending glances of friends and family. Sometimes I dream of escaping just to be able to be invisible.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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A few posts up you talked about fear and worry. It's interesting the things we worry about. My experience in withdrawal suggests that my best response is to try to feel other emotions? I try to escape fear because it's the enemy, like FDR said moreorless. Like when I am anxious or fearful I *try* tnot to feel fear but feel gratitude and happiness for the opportunity to confront this fear. It's really hard to do.

 

Obviously, anxiety and fears don't make perfect rational sense. The things I worry most about are almost certain to never happen or, often, are unavoidably certain to happen.

 

Finding peace in this life is a universal challenge that I sometimes feel as a personal struggle. Most people not consumed with finding food for the day seem to worry about the future and ruminate about the past. However, it seems withdrawal makes it all harder. I tend to bog down thinking I have an unfair burden through no fault of my own, that my life has been screwed or that my opportunities are gone or that Ive been damaged, etc. Things are just harder for me. And it's harder because I got jobbed in this Rx deal. I hate it and its effect on me is huge.

 

And this struggle is one that, but by a few stuck sharing my boat, will never be acknowledged or understood.

 

It's terrible, as you know. But I think you, Nadia, are doing an awesome job of hanging in. You deserve credit for this. You're still trying to live your life and have relationships, watch your nutrition, exercise, take care of your nervous system... Mostly nobody will ever credit or affirm you for doing these things. Except, its amazing what you are doing, how you are hanging in through the ups and downs. Whether its my place to say or not, I say you are showing amazing courage and character.

 

Don't give up. Good times you'll feel again. The brain is an unpredictable bastard with a mind of its own. Just stay in there. It will get better for you. I believe this that I believe I the sky is blue and the planet round. Hang in, it'll get better again.

 

Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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I vaguely remember the right way... letting things be, having more courage, finding joy in life. But right now I can't really see how to get there. I'm just stuck in this "it's too late to fix my life" kind of impasse.

 

Mid life crisis + withdrawal is no fun.

 

My dad asked me why I was so anxious the other day... he said he noticed me get that way when my boyfriend moved in with me. He thinks that's all there is to it. He just kept telling me I shouldn't feel trapped. Certainly there is some truth to what he says... one of the big things I'm stressed about it whether I stay where I am in the relationship I am and keep on trying to have a baby, or if I give up and get out of here. My boyfriend moving in was my "decision" to try for the baby and stay where I am, which in a lot of ways doesn't make me happy, no matter if I tell myself it's only temporary... another four years or so. In some ways I'm afraid it dooms me to a particular path. I've always had a hard time committing.

 

But at the same time, I don't think that crisis just neatly sums up my anxiety and depression and all the rest. I feel clear physical symptoms and I don't think it's just psychosomatic. Though who knows, the mind is a mysterious place. But I keep on thinking back to my window of being almost normal a bit ago. All the same issues were still there. But I was on vacation. I don't know if that is proof that this IS withdrawal or proof that it's just me being unhappy about my present circumstances.

 

It's just that if it's all in my head, then I feel like even more of a failure for not just "getting over it". I'm tired of the tired, uncomprehending glances of friends and family. Sometimes I dream of escaping just to be able to be invisible.

 

Nadia ~

I'm glad you were able to enjoy your break ~

Your post hit on several feelings I have too and I find it interesting that several of us 'woke up' during this 'midlife phase'~although I'm not grappling with the motherhood question which must be incredibly tough • I never had the desire and don't regret my choice -thankfully

 

Im not understanding your timeframe (4yrs I think)~perhaps I missed an earlier post ~

I know you've had some questionable moments with your sig other ~how is that weighing in now

 

More later

Barb

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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This is what I see from the information so far given and from the perspective of a 48 year old woman who has made many bad choices when it comes to men.

 

I am going to be extremely blunt here. Let us stop overanyalzing this.

 

- If your boyfriend thinks there is nothing wrong with "not calling" you, than he is clearly not ready for the responsibilities of parenthood.

 

- In my experience, his behavior tells me he is distancing himself from you and checking out of the relationship.

 

Please do not waste your time on someone who cannot give you want you want and need, especially because you are afraid you will end up alone. Do not make excuses for him. And do not psychoanalyze yourself to protect yourself or buy yourself time from looking at this relationship honestly. This is what many women tend to do. This is why there are shelves full of books that offer advice on how to "dymystify" the male mind. This is all time wasting BS.

 

Call his bluff, as Alto recommended or be direct and ask him if this relationship is working for him.

 

Life is too short and men are like buses, there is always another around the corner.

 

When I was 38, unmarried, in WD I decided that if I never found true love, a husband or had a child, I would be ok with it. It was once I let that desperation go, that men seemed to be drawn to me left and right. This led to me meeting my husband. One of our unspoken agreements is that we also check in with each other, so we know that each other is safe.

Withdrew cold turkey from six medications: Celexa, Zyprexa, Depakote, Ativan, Ambien and Phentermine in 2002. It has been 10 years since I told polypharmacy to take a hike and have joined this forum to let others know that success is possible and to hopefully save people from experiencing the suffering that I did under psychiatric "care".

 

MY STORY

 

"TENSION is when we try to be who we think we should be, RELAXATION is when we are who we really are."

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Finding peace in this life is a universal challenge that I sometimes feel as a personal struggle. Most people not consumed with finding food for the day seem to worry about the future and ruminate about the past.

 

However, it seems withdrawal makes it all harder. I tend to bog down thinking I have an unfair burden through no fault of my own, that my life has been screwed or that my opportunities are gone or that Ive been damaged, etc. Things are just harder for me. And it's harder because I got jobbed in this Rx deal. I hate it and its effect on me is huge.

 

And this struggle is one that, but by a few stuck sharing my boat, will never be acknowledged or understood.

 

I think about that a lot. I often feel guilty for feeling bad, when I know other people have it way worse than I do. Looking around, I've come to the conclusion that happiness has little to do with how difficult your life is. In fact, difficulties can be challenges or at least distracting. I find what is missing from me now is the "fight"... the gumption to go on. It's like I feel sorry for myself and find myself envying what other people have (especially with relationships, children, careers, and place to live) without wanting to put in the work to get there myself. At the same time, I recognize intellectually that your life is what you make it. Other people have been dealt way, way worse hands than me, and yet rise above it. I remember, for example, this documentary about this guy who was wrongfully incarcerated for 20 years. Instead of falling apart, he grew spiritually as a person. He accepted the experience, owned it, and transcended. Stories like that used to inspire me. Now they just depress me. I can't even seem to find the determination I had a couple of months ago (and it DID help me do better then! I had anxiety, I had insomnia, I had moments of feeling awful, but I had succeeded in finding some hope and inspiration to get through it).

 

It's terrible, as you know. But I think you, Nadia, are doing an awesome job of hanging in. You deserve credit for this. You're still trying to live your life and have relationships, watch your nutrition, exercise, take care of your nervous system... Mostly nobody will ever credit or affirm you for doing these things. Except, its amazing what you are doing, how you are hanging in through the ups and downs. Whether its my place to say or not, I say you are showing amazing courage and character.

 

Don't give up. Good times you'll feel again. The brain is an unpredictable bastard with a mind of its own. Just stay in there. It will get better for you. I believe this that I believe I the sky is blue and the planet round. Hang in, it'll get better again.

 

Alex

 

Thank you so much, Alex! I hope to deserve that praise. I'm plowing ahead. I guess I do have to give myself credit for exercising and eating right and working. I should just keep at it and hopefully the desire to live and grow will come back. I know I'm just looking at everything the wrong way. I know I have to work on my acceptance. But you're reminding me I also have to work on giving myself some credit for my small successes. I do think I spend most of the day thinking about what a loser I am, just finding patterns in my past that prove it. Thanks so much for your kind words.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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Your post hit on several feelings I have too and I find it interesting that several of us 'woke up' during this 'midlife phase'~although I'm not grappling with the motherhood question which must be incredibly tough • I never had the desire and don't regret my choice -thankfully

 

Im not understanding your timeframe (4yrs I think)~perhaps I missed an earlier post ~

I know you've had some questionable moments with your sig other ~how is that weighing in now

 

More later

Barb

 

I have always wanted to have a child, but it's always been one of those things on the back burner... I was always waiting for just the right situation, and also I'm a late bloomer. I think my 40s have hit me hard because I was still really just in my 20s all this time. I spent too much time in school and not getting around to settling down (not that I really want to settle down, I want to be free for adventure... i.e., I want it all!). Now my body and reality have caught up to me. I don't have a lot of energy, my body aches... I feel like an old woman! Ha ha ha. At the same time, I know when I feel inspired and centered that all the locks and chains I see around me are just an illusion. I just am not able to FEEL that now. I'm lost in bitterness and regret (for example, I almost had a child when I was 25, and then I almost got married when I was 33... I keep ruminating about both wishing I had made a different choice in both instances... but back then I felt like I had all the time in the world).

 

The four years thing... I want to move to a different country, and thought if I had a baby I would wait until after the toddler years, as I live close to my parents here and have certain perks that I wouldn't have elsewhere. That's why the time frame. Where I live isn't horrible, it's just that I struggled so hard to get away from my home town, and then inadvertently ended up living here again (long story). I've tried to like it, but it just doesn't sit well with me. I couldn't even really explain why. Some of it may just be that I relate it to failure since I swore I would never return. But there just may be other things that don't vibe with me. I don't have a lot of friends here, and don't really enjoy living here on some levels (mostly all relating to how I get along with other people, but also in relation to traffic, crime, pollution). Still, on a practical level it seemed like the best option for having a child, especially since relocating would take a couple of years and would mean starting over with a relationship and work, and I'm really pushing it with time (I had my hormones checked and supposedly I'm still fertile, but have had no luck getting pregnant so far). My boyfriend has no desire to leave here. I would have to really be the driving force for that. That is part of my reluctance for staying with him. I often think if I had more courage I'd just leave, follow my bliss, and that everything else would fall into place. But then I think back to the choices I made before and my regrets, and I think, what if I throw away my last opportunity to have a child? What if it turns out that I feel really unhappy for other reasons, and that "wherever I got there I'll be"? What if what I am going through is just a desire to run away and not face some inner demons? After all, there are always compromises to be made in life. So then I think... OK, so the deal is to figure out what you really want... and then that is where I fall apart. I want a lot of things, and I am having trouble distinguishing between the wise and the unwise desires. What is motivated by fear? What is motivated by laziness? What is motivated by a true desire that should be honored?

 

In all of this, the anxiety clouds everything. I have extreme reactions of anxiety mixed with disgust to some pretty predictable things, but does that mean I should stay away from them? If I listened to my anxiety I would end up doing nothing.

 

In the end I think I know what is going on... a mixture of my general character, which has always had a predisposition toward depression and avoidance, the difficulties I am having since quitting ADs, such as the insomnia and anxiety, and the realization that I'm not going to be young forever and there is a lot that I had wanted to do by now that I haven't done. Getting out, finding the energy to get out of this... there's the rub.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

Link to comment

This is what I see from the information so far given and from the perspective of a 48 year old woman who has made many bad choices when it comes to men.

 

I am going to be extremely blunt here. Let us stop overanyalzing this.

 

- If your boyfriend thinks there is nothing wrong with "not calling" you, than he is clearly not ready for the responsibilities of parenthood.

 

- In my experience, his behavior tells me he is distancing himself from you and checking out of the relationship.

 

Please do not waste your time on someone who cannot give you want you want and need, especially because you are afraid you will end up alone. Do not make excuses for him. And do not psychoanalyze yourself to protect yourself or buy yourself time from looking at this relationship honestly. This is what many women tend to do. This is why there are shelves full of books that offer advice on how to "dymystify" the male mind. This is all time wasting BS.

 

Call his bluff, as Alto recommended or be direct and ask him if this relationship is working for him.

 

Life is too short and men are like buses, there is always another around the corner.

 

When I was 38, unmarried, in WD I decided that if I never found true love, a husband or had a child, I would be ok with it. It was once I let that desperation go, that men seemed to be drawn to me left and right. This led to me meeting my husband. One of our unspoken agreements is that we also check in with each other, so we know that each other is safe.

 

Hi Whatever... to be fair to my boyfriend, he's actually really supportive and responsible in general (at least more so than most men I've known... and certainly he has stuck by me through thick and thin like no one EVER has). I don't know why he has a problem with this one area... perhaps it is a desire to stay "free". I probably had a similar streak in me in past years. But in any case, I just told him if he ever does it again it's over (it's what I can muster now). We've talked about the relationship as well, I think he is fine in it, but maybe not always for all the right reasons (it's hard to get him to tell me what he feels, he's very passive).

 

Aside from that, it's true I may be wasting my time with him anyway, because although I love him, I have never been IN love with him, and I find our relationship uninspiring. Which is awful, because he's a really good guy, and we get along well in a lot of ways. But it's just one of those chemistry things, I guess (and also my tendency to want some passion in my life! And more laughter! And more adventure!). I do have my doubts as to what his qualities as a father would be. I fear that I would be the one to carry most of the burden financially, and am not sure how "into" the idea he really is. I must say, we split everything down the middle and he never borrows money from anyone and pays his own way, but I'm actively trying to get pregnant now, for example, and have saved up a little bit of money over the past few years, while he has spent everything. And lately he hasn't worked much and spends all day watching movies. Which I would be totally fine with, except that he has very little money saved, only enough to get him through the next couple of months, and what if I do get pregnant? I ideally would like for him to be planning ahead about this. But he is fundamentally a really responsible guy, so maybe it's just a matter of me actually getting pregnant for him to react (but do I want to risk it? But worst case scenario, I end up a single mom, which is pretty much my only other option at this point anyway, barring some stroke of incredible luck like falling in love mutually with someone how wants kids ipso facto). I also voice all of these doubts to him, so I'm sure that makes it hard to get really excited about anything. This is a two-way street. It seems like when I've put the most effort into opening up and improving our relationship, he's clammed up, and vice versa. Not sure how to get out of that pattern.

 

My romantic side says it's a crime for me to stay with someone if I'm not in love. And like my father says, it's not about wanting to have a kid, it's about wanting to have a kid with a particular person. But the couple of times I've been in love were a disaster. The relationship I'm in now is so much healthier. And I have friends who chose healthy over madly in love as well, and are doing fine now. Still, maybe I don't have it in me to do the same.

 

What I do know is I don't think I have the energy to have a child alone.

 

I don't know. When I'm feeling better, I want to get a dog, I want to have a child, I want to create stuff, I want to work... then on days like today, all the desire is gone.

 

I know you are totally right about the need to let go. I guess I have to just keep on repeating it to myself... I have long ago given up wishing for particular things. My wishes now are for what is best, whatever it may be. What I'm missing is the conviction. I have to try not to try. Am I stubbornly holding onto something out of fear? This impasse is an illusion, I know it!

 

But here I am for now.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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