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Neuroplasticity - Norman Doidge MD Interview


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This is an interview with Noman Doidge MD author of "The brain that changes itself"  and his new book which I have but can't seem to read " The brain's way of healing" 

 

THE NATIONAL | Feb 13, 2015 | 10:14

Wendy Interviews Dr. Norman Doidge

This psychiatrist claims we can treat autism, Parkinson's and multiple sclerosis with the power of thought.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Shows/Shows/The%20National/About%20the%20Show/Wendy%20Mesley/ID/2653738823/

 

I know some links from Canada do not work in other places if this does not work for you search Norman Doidge videos it may be some other place. 

 

 

 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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I am not sure how this translates to us here but walking is going to be good... I walked a lot before that last car accident have not since  .I  need to start again it does give us hope that this will one day be over and that we can help ourselves.  Interesting how he brings gut into this conversation. 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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Oh, I need to check out his new book. Loved the first one.

 

Everyone is all about gut flora and how it affects emotion and behavior these days, it's the latest scientific rage, at least in health/behavior. I don't know if anyone's figured out a way to make the big bucks off of it yet but trust me, they will. 

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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Oh, I need to check out his new book. Loved the first one.

 

Everyone is all about gut flora and how it affects emotion and behavior these days, it's the latest scientific rage, at least in health/behavior. I don't know if anyone's figured out a way to make the big bucks off of it yet but trust me, they will. 

 

I am trying one now as it Petu and a few others are trying a different one this video only mentions the gut in that perhaps they should scan the rest of the body and not just the brain to see the interactions as the body and brain are so connected.  

 

He did not mention any probiotic or treatments relating to the gut in the video can't say about the book as I can't get well enough to read it..only bits here and there.   Mostly there are new things being learned about the brain and it is all cutting edge. 

 

The probiotic I am taking is already on patent but it still very inexpensive compared to what a drug would cost the patent is owned by a Swedish company and the product is tested in Europe as it all product for babies must be tested there... it is called Bio Gaia about 30 bucks a bottle or so will last 3 months easy after that it is too old and needs the bin.  I talk about it in my personal thread. 

 

This in not what the video is about mostly new ways of healing the brain based on new science. 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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The use of electrical stimulation has been used a long time already to improve bone healing one big idea in this book is how it is being used to promote healing in the brain.  I so wish I was able to gobble this book up and spoon feed it to you all as it sure sounds amazing when I flit thru it page here and page there. 

 

I highly recommend the book... 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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Thanks for this link. It is encouraging to know about this writer. Very positive reviews of him in Amazon. The idea that we can do something other than wait to recover is inspiring. I'm still not getting much exercise and I do think it would help. Will help!

2009: Cancer hospital said I had adjustment disorder because I thought they were doing it wrong. Their headshrinker prescribed Effexor, and my life set on a new course. I didn't know what was ahead, like a passenger on Disneyland's Matterhorn, smiling and waving as it climbs...clink, clink, clink.

2010: Post surgical accidental Effexor discontinuation by nurses, masked by intravenous Dilaudid. (The car is balanced at the top of the track.) I get home, pop a Vicodin, and ...

Whooosh...down, down, down, down, down...goes the trajectory of my life, up goes my mood and tendency to think everything is a good idea.
2012: After the bipolar jig was up, now a walking bag of unrelated symptoms, I went crazy on Daytrana (the Ritalin skin patch by Noven), because ADHD was a perfect fit for a bag of unrelated symptoms. I was prescribed Effexor for the nervousness of it, and things got neurological. An EEG showed enough activity to warrant an epilepsy diagnosis rather than non-epileptic ("psychogenic") seizures.

:o 2013-2014: Quit everything and got worse. I probably went through DAWS: dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome. I drank to not feel, but I felt a lot: dread, fear, regret, grief: an utter sense of total loss of everything worth breathing about, for almost two years.

I was not suicidal but I wanted to be dead, at least dead to the experience of my own brain and body.

2015: I  began to recover after adding virgin coconut oil and organic grass-fed fed butter to a cup of instant coffee in the morning.

I did it hoping for mental acuity and better memory. After ten days of that, I was much better, mood-wise. Approximately neutral.

And, I experienced drowsiness. I could sleep. Not exactly happy, I did 30 days on Wellbutrin, because it had done me no harm in the past. 

I don't have the DAWS mood or state of mind. It never feel like doing anything if it means standing up.

In fact, I don't especially like moving. I'm a brain with a beanbag body.   :unsure:

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  • 4 weeks later...

I still have not read the book seems to be one problem after the other since I bought it... every time I pick it up I learn something new... so much for my latest saying of nothing new under the sun... 

 

If it is right and I am always the jaded skeptic... if it is right there are a few applications that may help us in recovery.  I made one suggestion in Iggy's post that perhaps she is better when she does certain things as areas of the brain do double duty and they can't do both at the same time.... 

 

here is my own small example:

if sensing the cold of ice cream used the same part of the brain to process information as say feeling heat in your foot... you could not process both in your brain at the same time... so eating ice cream would stop burning in your foot. Or burning in your foot would stop you feeling the cold from ice cream.

 

What they have learned. 

An area of the brain that senses pain and does other things will ... the area in the brain for sensing pain will take up more and more real estate as people do less and less of the other things that that area of the brain is also used for... when there is not much input but pain if a person is still just suffering the pain area in the brain grows... to take back the realestate in the brain was the idea... to start. 

 

What was learned is the area in the brain that is processing pain and taking more and more brain real estate can be " re-developed" Just as other real estate is... by conscious effort of practicing other things that same area of the brain use to do... 

this technique has stopped pain in long term sufferers. 

 

So it goes to reason if we could figure out which area of the brain working our symptoms and what else that area does... we could maybe help our brains to heal faster by the input we put into our brains/bodies. 

 

I think there is one thing I have found that works like this already and that is deep relaxation... without having any idea how it was working I just knew it was working.  These new ideas above may well be the explanation as to why it works. 

 

I wish others would read the book and maybe we could put together some ideas to try... more things to do. 

peace

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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  • 3 weeks later...
Vonnegutjunky

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/15622975.2011.640941#/doi/abs/10.3109/15622975.2011.640941

 

 

Could some one explain this to me? Just looking for answers on if I meditate/exercise/do therapy, the effects will not be completely counterproductive because I am still on Paxil.

 

Thank you

 

*Currently at 3.3mg off my 10mg pill of Paxil (they actually weigh 12.5mg) so I’m around 7.4 mg 

*No other supplements or vitamins 

*Taper schedule in the pdf 

Blank.pdf

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-5vShtJtwAOGA30OxIP87steLmMdFzD29F0fzAPD564

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Altostrata would be the best to weigh in this.  it's almost, almost in my grasp, but I have really only taught myself very basic neuro info.  I think, though, that this abstract implies that when a serotonin-affecting agent is in your brain, other things in the brain will kick in to compensate for whatever the foreign agent's effect is on the serotonin.  So, if a foreign agent (such as the med) makes the serotonin slow down, then another part of your brain will start making more of something else to compensate for the serotonin's job.  But if a foreign agent makes the serotonin crank up, then other stuff in the brain will slow down to compensate.

If I understand correctly, the changes in the brain (neuroplasticity) and the growth in the brain (neurogenesis) does not happen from the serotonin (serotonin transporters, to be more accurate), but from the behavior of the other stuff in the brain that is COMPENSATING FOR the serotonin.

Please understand that I DO NOT KNOW for sure if what I have said above is ACTUALLY what the abstract means.  I was merely trying to decode it and have done my best.

Also, I bet that meditation and exercise are going to be good regardless of whether you are on or off meds, as long as you feel your body tolerating those things well.  Alto always says healing can happen under the meds. :)

Anyway, I think you should definitely ask Altostrata about what this abstract means.  I'm NOWHERE near armed with her info!

**I'm not a doctor and don't give medical advice, merely personal experience
***Off all meds since Nov. 2014. Mentally & emotionally recovered; physically not
-Dual cold turkeys off TCA & Ativan in Oct 2014. Prescribed from 2011-2014

-All meds were Rxed off-label for an autoimmune illness.  It was a MISDIAGNOSIS, but I did not find out until AFTER meds caused damage.  All med tapers/cold turkeys directed by doctors 

-Nortriptyline May 2012 - Dec 2013. Cold turkey off nortrip & cold switched to desipramine

-Desipramine Jan 2014 - Oct. 29, 2014 (rapid taper/cold turkey)

-Lorazepam 1 mg per night during 2011
-Lorazepam 1 mg per month in 2012 (or less)

-Lorazepam on & off, Dec 2013 through Aug 2014. Didn't exceed 3x a week

-Lorazepam again in Oct. 2014 to help get off of desipramine. Last dose lzpam was 1 mg, Nov. 2, 2014. Immediate paradoxical reactions to benzos after stopping TCAs 

-First muscle/dystonia side effects started on nortriptyline, but docs too stupid to figure it out. On desipramine, muscle tremors & rigidity worsened

-Two weeks after I got off all meds, I developed full-blown TD.  Tardive dystonia, dyskinesia, myoclonic jerks ALL over body, ribcage wiggles, facial tics, twitching tongue & fingers, tremors/twitches of arms, legs, cognitive impairment, throat muscles semi-paralyzed & unable to swallow solid food, brain zaps, ears ring, dizzy, everything looks too far away, insomnia, numbness & electric shocks everywhere when I try to fall asleep, jerk awake from sleep with big, gasping breaths, wake with terrors & tremors, severely depressed.  NO HISTORY OF DEPRESSION, EVER. Meds CREATED it.

-Month 7: hair falling out; no vision improvement; still tardive dystonia; facial & tongue tics returned
-Month 8: back to acute, incl. Grand Mal seizure-like episodes. New mental torment, PGAD, worse insomnia
-Month 9: tardive dystonia worse, dyskinesia returned. Unable to breathe well due to dystonia in stomach, chest, throat
-Month 13: Back to acute, brain zaps back, developed eczema & stomach problems. Left leg no longer works right due to dystonia, meaning both legs now damaged
-4 years off: Huge improvements, incl. improved dystonia

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Altostrata

These kinds of sweeping questions are best answered by a Ph.D in neurology. A complete response could take many, many pages and a long time to write, time that I do not have.

 

Please find a Ph.D in neurology and ask him or her to explain this type of thing in layperson terms.

 

In the meantime, Google for books you can read. One such might be The Brain That Changes Itself by Norman Doidge, MD.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 8 months later...
  • Moderator

I found this fascinating and promising regarding neurogenesis. 

 

http://www.ted.com/talks/sandrine_thuret_you_can_grow_new_brain_cells_here_s_how       

 

One thing I note, however, is the statement that is made which suggests an even greater level of certainty of the mechanism of action of antidepressants on neurogenesis and the positive effect that has in countering depression.   This will become the rallying cry of Big Pharma, i.e., these drugs DO work -- just in a different way than we thought.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012

increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement

Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first")

Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15

Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid 
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15

Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016

10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg.  No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold.

After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation

Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C,

 

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  • 1 year later...

I've ordered the book as an audio download from the library. Can't wait.

2002 to 2016 Venlafaxine ER 225mg.  2013 TMS treatments triggered nerve pain in face, arm, back.  2016 TMS round ending Feb 1 Central Nerve Pain and and sub-acute serotonin toxicity compounded by Imitrex.  April-June tapered over 3 months from 225 to 0. Reinstated 6/20/16 21.5 nonER 2x day. 7/7/16-37.5mg; 7/17/16-36.6; 7/22/16-33.75; 8/22/16 32.6mg, 9/11/16-28.9mg, 9/25/16-25mg, 12/3/16-19.4mg, 12/18/16-18.5 holding.  OTHER DAILY PHARMACEUTICALS:   *Oxcarbazepine 150 mg 2x/day since mid 2015, *Naproxen 220mg 3x/day as an antidepressant and for pain since 2012, *Levothyrozine 75mcg since 2008 (hypothyroid), *Levothyronine 5 mpg 2x/day since 2012 (hypothyroid) *montelukast SOD 10 mg for asthma since 2014, Advair 250/50 2x daily, [DX 11/16 Felodopine 5mg since 2006,DX combivent 8/1/16] *MEDICAL MARIJUANA for neuropathic pain:CBD oil 25 mg 3-4 x day, THC tincture a few drops: 1/4 tsp 0-3x/day, vaporize CBD for breakthrough pain, CBD concentrate for severe pain.  PRN MEDS *Valium 5 mg PRN up to 4/day for muscle spasms, usually 1-2 x/ day. *Low dose Ketamine nasal spray for severe pain, and also finding 1 dose calms bad WD quickly. HERBAL TINCTURES: burdock, lobelia, turmeric, white willow. CURRENT SUPPLEMENTS:  *Methylated B vitamins, *Vitamin D 5000 iu, Alpha Lipoid Acid, Neti pot. [DX 6/13/16 promethazine suppository + 2 OTC Benadryl for severe pain N Acetyl Cytine for asthma1992-2002, over 20 different psych meds. 2012-2016 Eliminated 7 meds 1 at a time DX Plaquenil DX Spironolactone DX Lunesta, DX Ativan,  + others

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