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Europeans: What about submitting a petition to the European parliament?


Laura1981
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Hi all, 

 

I keep wrecking my head about what to do about the disinformation of doctors and patients regarding prescription drug withdrawal (SSRI, benzodiazepines etc). 

 

I came up with the idea to submit a petition to the European parliament. Is anyone aware if this has been done before? I tried to search the petition database but didn't find anything. 

 

If I would file a petition, what would be the best thing to ask for? I was thinking along these lines: 

 

- Enforce written, signed consent from the patients that he/she is aware of the withdrawal symptoms that can occur when discontinuing certain drugs (benzodiazepines, SSRIs etc)

- Require pharmaceutical companies to perform studies not only about patients being on the drugs but also about patients coming off the drugs. Let's say they should run a study after two years of the drug being on the market to see how discontinuing the drug affects patients and publish the results to doctors. 

 

What does everyone think? 

 

Best, 

 

Laura

Feb 2015 Took venlafaxine for 5 days only... experienced withdrawal that made me completely non-functional

Mar 2015 took under 1mg of Sertraline for 10 days in an attempt to combat Venlafaxine withdrawal. Got adverse reactions. 

After stopping Sertraline, withdrawal got much worse. New, horrific symptoms. 

June 2015 Still non-functional but slowly getting better. Still brain zaps, migraines, sweating, heart racing, depression, crying spells

September 2015: 24/7 brain zaps, twitches in the face, no concentration, bad memory, language skills deteriorating. 

 

Profile feed: http://goo.gl/3g2GRn

 

Sign this petition for a blackbox warning on Prozac in Ireland:

https://www.change.org/p/leo-varadakar-hpra-the-lack-of-a-blackbox-warning-on-prozac-in-ireland-and-its-use-by-the-hse-in-under-18-s?recruiter=63289046&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-no_msg

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Yes, great I'm going to my local mp..don't know of it will help much or if I'm well enough to do anything right now..but great for thinking this..

2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare!

 

On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect.

 

Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan.

 

 

Nightmare that could have been avoided!

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Cool! Good luck with the MP! I hope you'll feel better so you're up for it! 

 

I submitted a petition yesterday. I'm not sure if it's especially well written or if I considered all the points needed, but I was just so angry that I had to do something NOW.... I think I needed it to keep myself from going nuts and focus on something. 

 

They'll evaluate if it's within their responsibilities. If they don't reject it, I think people can view and support it. 

Feb 2015 Took venlafaxine for 5 days only... experienced withdrawal that made me completely non-functional

Mar 2015 took under 1mg of Sertraline for 10 days in an attempt to combat Venlafaxine withdrawal. Got adverse reactions. 

After stopping Sertraline, withdrawal got much worse. New, horrific symptoms. 

June 2015 Still non-functional but slowly getting better. Still brain zaps, migraines, sweating, heart racing, depression, crying spells

September 2015: 24/7 brain zaps, twitches in the face, no concentration, bad memory, language skills deteriorating. 

 

Profile feed: http://goo.gl/3g2GRn

 

Sign this petition for a blackbox warning on Prozac in Ireland:

https://www.change.org/p/leo-varadakar-hpra-the-lack-of-a-blackbox-warning-on-prozac-in-ireland-and-its-use-by-the-hse-in-under-18-s?recruiter=63289046&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-no_msg

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Great :)

2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare!

 

On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect.

 

Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan.

 

 

Nightmare that could have been avoided!

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  • Moderator Emeritus

It's worth a shot.  I'm a Kiwi, but I'd be keen to add my name to the petition for the reason that when Europe does something, NZ might be more inclined to follow ;)

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

My story of healing:ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor; please do your own research and be able to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Laura,

I applaud you for motivating yourself to attempt to affect change. Very often we complain about what we're experiencing, but can't be bothered or are apathetic.

I would like to sign your petition, how do I go about that? I'm am Australian.

I started Lexapro 2013 30? mg

Changed to Effexor 75 mg Jan 2014

Started tapering. 1st Dec 2014 -

75mg down to 37.5 in 1st month.

18.7 mg to 9 mg between 1st jan- 1st feb.

Discontinued 1st Feb- 27th Feb

Have experienced, daily, vertigo, disassociation, chronic fatigue, insomnia,

Pins and needles down right side head and intense despair.

Reinstated 4 beads Effexor 28th Feb 15'

Side affects of withdrawal not manageable particularly

Depression/dispair.

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Hi Sujema, 

 

thanks a lot for the encouragement! I have a lot of hopes for the petition. 

 

It's still not available for signature. They have to review it first and see if it falls within their responsibilities. They sent me a letter saying "due to the high volume of petitions we receive, this can take quite some time". 

 

I'll post whenever I hear back from them.  

 

Laura

Feb 2015 Took venlafaxine for 5 days only... experienced withdrawal that made me completely non-functional

Mar 2015 took under 1mg of Sertraline for 10 days in an attempt to combat Venlafaxine withdrawal. Got adverse reactions. 

After stopping Sertraline, withdrawal got much worse. New, horrific symptoms. 

June 2015 Still non-functional but slowly getting better. Still brain zaps, migraines, sweating, heart racing, depression, crying spells

September 2015: 24/7 brain zaps, twitches in the face, no concentration, bad memory, language skills deteriorating. 

 

Profile feed: http://goo.gl/3g2GRn

 

Sign this petition for a blackbox warning on Prozac in Ireland:

https://www.change.org/p/leo-varadakar-hpra-the-lack-of-a-blackbox-warning-on-prozac-in-ireland-and-its-use-by-the-hse-in-under-18-s?recruiter=63289046&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-no_msg

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There is or was an petition to Wyeth about Effexor 22 thousand signed it many with comments... I don't know what happened to it but it would I think be a good guide if you could find it. 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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I tried to find it, but all links I found point to a dead site:

 

http://drugs.healthdiaries.com/effexor-petition.html

 

points here:

http://www.petitiononline.com

 

So sadly the platform seems to be gone where the petition was hosted :( Mine is an official petition to the European Parliament. It's an instrument that we have over here where people can bring issues to the attention of the parliament. They have to at least look at it.

Feb 2015 Took venlafaxine for 5 days only... experienced withdrawal that made me completely non-functional

Mar 2015 took under 1mg of Sertraline for 10 days in an attempt to combat Venlafaxine withdrawal. Got adverse reactions. 

After stopping Sertraline, withdrawal got much worse. New, horrific symptoms. 

June 2015 Still non-functional but slowly getting better. Still brain zaps, migraines, sweating, heart racing, depression, crying spells

September 2015: 24/7 brain zaps, twitches in the face, no concentration, bad memory, language skills deteriorating. 

 

Profile feed: http://goo.gl/3g2GRn

 

Sign this petition for a blackbox warning on Prozac in Ireland:

https://www.change.org/p/leo-varadakar-hpra-the-lack-of-a-blackbox-warning-on-prozac-in-ireland-and-its-use-by-the-hse-in-under-18-s?recruiter=63289046&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-no_msg

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  • 1 month later...

Arghhh... I just realized there's approximately a two year delay between the EU petitions being filed and reviewed. So I guess we won't hear anything about this before 2017. 

Feb 2015 Took venlafaxine for 5 days only... experienced withdrawal that made me completely non-functional

Mar 2015 took under 1mg of Sertraline for 10 days in an attempt to combat Venlafaxine withdrawal. Got adverse reactions. 

After stopping Sertraline, withdrawal got much worse. New, horrific symptoms. 

June 2015 Still non-functional but slowly getting better. Still brain zaps, migraines, sweating, heart racing, depression, crying spells

September 2015: 24/7 brain zaps, twitches in the face, no concentration, bad memory, language skills deteriorating. 

 

Profile feed: http://goo.gl/3g2GRn

 

Sign this petition for a blackbox warning on Prozac in Ireland:

https://www.change.org/p/leo-varadakar-hpra-the-lack-of-a-blackbox-warning-on-prozac-in-ireland-and-its-use-by-the-hse-in-under-18-s?recruiter=63289046&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-no_msg

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I tried to find it, but all links I found point to a dead site:

 

http://drugs.healthdiaries.com/effexor-petition.html

 

points here:

http://www.petitiononline.com

 

So sadly the platform seems to be gone where the petition was hosted :( Mine is an official petition to the European Parliament. It's an instrument that we have over here where people can bring issues to the attention of the parliament. They have to at least look at it.

 

Wait a minute I went to the wayback machine captured the effexor petition and posted it here in its entirety... where did it go? 

 

I recall comments on it..

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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Effexor
  • Author: 
    n/a
  • Send To: 
    Effexor's manufacturer, Wyeth-Ayerst Laboratories
  • Sponsored By: 
    those experiencing difficulty with the prescription antidepressant, Effexor
  • More Info at: 
 
 
Effexor Petition 

We the individuals listed below have electronically signed this petition for the purpose of making it known that consumers treated with the SSNRI antidepressant Effexor have or are experiencing "often ignored" serious side effects of this medication. And that thousands of patients in the US and worldwide are unable to discontinue Effexor or even reduce dosage due to the rapid onset of severe withdrawal-like symptoms which often initiates before a patient begins dose reduction due to the short half-life of Effexor. Documentation of which the manufacturer, Wyeth-Ayerst has gradually disclosed now some 8 years after this drug was first licensed, being aware of these problems all along but failing to communicate this knowledge to the public and the medical community. 

Wyeth-Ayerst misleadingly advertises through its Effexor labeling that only drug abusers are at risk of physical and psychological dependence, and withdrawal problems when tapering back or abruptly discontinuing Effexor usage. Wyeth-Ayerst knows such representations are false, and that all patients, including patients not having a history of drug abuse, are susceptible to withdrawal problems after tapering back or abruptly discontinuing Effexor. 

Effexor as prescribed to us by our doctors resulted in anxiety and agitation, sexual dysfunction, hypomania, weight gain, and many other debilitating adverse reactions such as insomnia and bizarre vivid nightmares, deterioration in eyesight, high blood pressure, dehydrating night sweats, memory problems, thyroid disorders which can cause the very depression this medication was first prescribed to treat, among other serious side effects. These iatrogenic (medication induced) effects were ignored or underplayed by its manufacturer, which resulted in our overall inability to function normally for lengthy periods of time during usage and attempted dose reduction. Nor had proper disclosure been made that benzodiazepines had been co-prescribed during clinical trial in order to minimize the agitation that the manufacturer had recognized this medication could cause. Effexor in many cases is not the "stand alone" remedy that it has been advertised to be. Patient in accepting treatment with Effexor are not being forewarned that by their use of Effexor -- sleeping medication, blood pressure medication, and anti-anxiety medication might become a concurrent necessity. Thus the mis-informed consumer totally unexpectedly finds themselves being prescribed many more drugs than they ever anticipated needing. 

We all know that taking prescription medication involves some risks and that with each medication some percentage of patients are likely to experience adverse results. We strongly feel however, that the risks involved with the usage of Effexor is greater than the medical community and the public realize, certainly greater than we were ever told, and that Wyeth-Ayerst knew of these risks but failed to communicate those risks to the consumer and their physicians. 

Our lives have been negatively, unexpectedly, and undeservingly impacted by the antidepressant Effexor. We were not given full disclosure of this medication's known adverse effects, and many of us suffered greatly because of this failure to warn. Therefore, our purpose with this petition is to share information that we have gathered so that others will have adequate knowledge and be able to fully discuss options and risks of the use of Effexor with qualified medical professionals before they make any final choice regarding initiating these types of medications. Thereby being able to be a knowledgeable consumer and make the appropriate decisions together with their physicians in regards to their own medical treatment and might be spared the suffering we have experienced first hand. 

By this petition let it be made clear that we are not advocating the non-use of Effexor because this medication's possible benefits to the public at large is beyond our scope of knowledge to the extent that each individual now considering the use of Effexor has informational benefits we did not, now that more medical information regarding Effexor has been released to the public. Now that others will have the benefit of this information where we did not, and the benefit of important public websites such as Steve Whiting's -- www.effexorfx.freeuk.com, each person must take responsibility to make their own decision regarding the use of these types of medications, assisted by proper advise from a qualified medical professional, fully knowledgeable of Effexor's profile and side effects. 

But as individuals, and their are a significant number of us, we have found that the disclosure regarding the side effects and efficacy of Effexor that we were given and which is still being propagated, is significantly misleading to the consumer and the medical community at large. This cannot continue and we hope you will support us with our pleas to Wyeth-Ayerst for full and accurate disclosure. 
 
PetitionOnline.com provides free hosting of public petitions for responsible public advocacy. This public forum is privately sponsored and we reserve the right to refuse submissions. Petitions do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of PetitionOnline.com or our sponsors. Please send us your questions, comments, and suggestions! © All Rights Reserved.
 
DATE OF THIS CAPTURE 
DEC 7, 2011
A LATER CAPTURE WOULD UNDOUBTEDLY HAVE MORE SIGNATURES

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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I think after reading the following article - all UK members should print it off and write their own stories. It's a good time to do this now whilst it is being discussed within the goverment.

2008 - Doctors appointment with stress induced anxiety led to Citalopram prescription.

Severe adverse reaction

Mirtazapine prescribed - adverse reaction but told to stay on.

Poop out - December 2013

15mg

Currently on 13.5mg,

April 12mg

May 10th - 11mg

June 10th - 10mg

July 8th - 9mg

September - 0mg

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Feb 2015 Took venlafaxine for 5 days only... experienced withdrawal that made me completely non-functional

Mar 2015 took under 1mg of Sertraline for 10 days in an attempt to combat Venlafaxine withdrawal. Got adverse reactions. 

After stopping Sertraline, withdrawal got much worse. New, horrific symptoms. 

June 2015 Still non-functional but slowly getting better. Still brain zaps, migraines, sweating, heart racing, depression, crying spells

September 2015: 24/7 brain zaps, twitches in the face, no concentration, bad memory, language skills deteriorating. 

 

Profile feed: http://goo.gl/3g2GRn

 

Sign this petition for a blackbox warning on Prozac in Ireland:

https://www.change.org/p/leo-varadakar-hpra-the-lack-of-a-blackbox-warning-on-prozac-in-ireland-and-its-use-by-the-hse-in-under-18-s?recruiter=63289046&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-no_msg

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