☼ erer: CT from Cymbalta and in trouble with Zyprexa, Diazepam and Valdoxan

[Fresh]

Thanks for helping me to understand.

 

The high suicide rates for people with akathisia stem from the fact that , just like you , people decide they just can't take it anymore.

 

Death does not come from the physical manifestations of akathisia (even if you wish it would).  That's what I meant by "no one has ever died from it."

 

I might have tried too when the terror was constant , but the fact was I had no means available.  

I did consider my choices , and berated myself that I hadn't organized something while i was still able to.    I didn't have anyone who would bring me a gun or some cyanide.

My way forward from there was to surrendered to it , and I  tried to comfort myself with what everyone said - that it will finish.

 

One day , one hour at a time.

 

[erer]

Thanks for helping me to understand.

 

The high suicide rates for people with akathisia stem from the fact that , just like you , people decide they just can't take it anymore.

 

Death does not come from the physical manifestations of akathisia (even if you wish it would).  That's what I meant by "no one has ever died from it."

I know that this is what you meant really  

And I understand that. Even though sometimes things get so bad (not only the akathisia part) that I actually feel like and am afraid that I am going to die of the symptoms I have. 

[bluebalu86]

Withdrawal cannot harm you honey. It's just very very unpleasant. Until you decide to give up, every part of it is survivable.

Many people have survived and recovered from akathisia. You can do it too. Don't let this b**** scare you. 

[erer]

I asked one of the administrators (thank you, btw!) to change the title of my thread from "erer: tapering Cymbalta" for it was no longer describing my fight. I am no longer on Cymbalta, but going through the post-Cymbalta hell and battling other meds now. 

[LoveandLight]

How are you? Hug x

[erer]

How are you? Hug x

It's the same... every day starts with sheer fear, heart pounding. Through paralyzing fear and/or huge sadness and crying I start each day, forcing myself to face yet another one. All day is a torture. Sometimes it gets a little easier after about 5 pm. Sometimes it gets worse. SO very tired of living like this.

[LoveandLight]

Aww sorry it's so hard xxx

[Pugknows]

((((erer))))

 

I'm so sorry you are suffering like this. Your symptoms are so similar to mine.

 

Waking up every morning at 4am to cortisol surges and utter panic, then trying to calm myself all day with racing intrusive thoughts, panting and pacing frantically with akathisia. Boy, do I get it. It's utterly exhausting.

 

The good news is my akathisia has decreased a lot. Its been replaced by crushing insomnia.

 

More fun than I can handle.

 

You'll get beyond this, sweetheart. You really can't see clearly how you'll ever be healthy and happy someday, but that's the drug telling you lies, preying on your biggest fears and magnifying them 1000x.

 

Talk back to your brain. Tell your brain that everyone heals 100%. You are no exception.

 

Time is what it takes. It IS what it IS till it ISN'T. We all heal 100%. Keep saying that out loud 100 times a day. Eventually your brain will get the message.

 

Love, Pug

[erer]

Aww sorry it's so hard xxx

Thank you. I know it is really confusing and terrifying for you at the moment to. Hang in there!

[erer]

 

Talk back to your brain. Tell your brain that everyone heals 100%. You are no exception.

 

Time is what it takes. It IS what it IS till it ISN'T. We all heal 100%. Keep saying that out loud 100 times a day. Eventually your brain will get the message.

Thanks. I try, but I am good at making plans and visualizing the bright future when I feel better for some moments, but when it comes to the every day suffering that has to be experienced minute after a minute, that's when things get hard.

[LoveandLight]

Thanks erer

[erer]

I feel myself getting angrier at my situation day by day. It just is not unfair that I should be suffering and not able to do any of the things other people do - have a successful career, have a family, have good social relationships. Here I am just trying to remain sitting upright as todays goal for I am so dizzy I cannot do any normal things a person would otherwise do.

[LoveandLight]

Aww I feel the same as you do today..erer..

 

Well, I cannot say the 'same' really as I don't exactly know what it's like for you but I'm angry that this kind of thing happens at all..I mean..I could have dealt with normal depression anxiety but how do you deal with this kind of stuff..

 

I'm with you xx

[erer]

Question: could switching my olanzapine pill for another manufacturer's one cause any trouble? I suspect that this time my doctor did not prescribe the same brand name as last time and I'm worried to change anything.

[LoveandLight]

Someone else I hope will be able to answer that question..

 

How are you? Xxx

[erer]

Weekend was tough. Got seriously suicidal after some relief I've had for a little time. And it was scary because it was so very bad - when recent times I have had the suicide ideation that goes more like "I DON'T want to die, but I just don't want to suffer any longer" then this weekend it was "I want to die and I don't see anything ever improving". Felt like I could not take another minute more. Very scary. Still very scared. 

 

Last time I changed my medication dosage (olansapine) was over 2 weeks ago and I was expecting to be stabilizing somewhat by now. At least the acute symptoms did start to reduce after the first week/week and a half. So I am so scared as these things keep happening to me now. I feel like the Cymbalta waves should not be this strong by now and I don't know what I am up against here. Is it my depression raising its head, is it the combo of these devilish meds I am still on, is it the last olansapine reduction or is it still the Cymbalta haunting me.

[bluebalu86]

Honey you did A LOT of changes recently. I CT'ed the Fluanxol in April, immediately reinstated only after a week, it's now August and I'm still not stable yet. Still having random waves of symptoms. 

You CT'ed Cymbalta, started 3 new meds, are tapering one of them. I think these are HUGE changes and you can expect to feel unstable for a while. Plus you have been making big cuts. 

[Skyler]

Question: could switching my olanzapine pill for another manufacturer's one cause any trouble? I suspect that this time my doctor did not prescribe the same brand name as last time and I'm worried to change anything.

 

Yes it absolutely could.  But it's the generic that would have been changed. Olanzipine is the name of a generic. Zyrexa is the brand name. Brand names are less likely to vary as much, though all do to some extent. In the US, it's the pharmacies that change the type of generic, depending on price and availability.  You could ask them if they changed recently.. they will probably have a record.

 

I read your sig line but cannot tell how much you have been tapering... for example, you have 

 

10 mg -> 7,5 mg diazepam

 1,25 mg -> 2,5mg -> 1,875 mg Olanzapine (you may know it as Zyprexa) 

 

But I can't tell what size cuts you are taking, over what time frame you tapered the amounts given, and if you are tapering both Zyprexa and diazepam simultaneously (we don't recommend tapering more than one drug at a time)?

[erer]

Honey you did A LOT of changes recently. I CT'ed the Fluanxol in April, immediately reinstated only after a week, it's now August and I'm still not stable yet. Still having random waves of symptoms. 

You CT'ed Cymbalta, started 3 new meds, are tapering one of them. I think these are HUGE changes and you can expect to feel unstable for a while. Plus you have been making big cuts. 

Yes, but I had been tapering Cymbalta 10% at a time for over 2,5 years and I only CTd from 8,4 mg.

I have though not been considering enough the CT they did to me in the hospital from 2 sleeping pills I had been taking regularly... THAT is really harsh imo.

 

I am so angry at myself for letting them put me on more meds, but I was at such a horrible state I needed to do whatever worked. And now I'm stuck again.

[erer]

 

Question: could switching my olanzapine pill for another manufacturer's one cause any trouble? I suspect that this time my doctor did not prescribe the same brand name as last time and I'm worried to change anything.

 

Yes it absolutely could.  But it's the generic that would have been changed. Olanzipine is the name of a generic. Zyrexa is the brand name. Brand names are less likely to vary as much, though all do to some extent. In the US, it's the pharmacies that change the type of generic, depending on price and availability.  You could ask them if they changed recently.. they will probably have a record.

 

Olanzapine is actually the name of the active ingredient in the drug. My medicine is actually called Zalasta (the kind that melts in your mouth). And it is OK now, they gave me a new prescription after my partner argued with them. They did not want to give it saying there is no difference... Fortunately I did not take the other one even once.

[erer]

 

10 mg -> 7,5 mg diazepam

1,25 mg -> 2,5mg -> 1,875 mg Olanzapine (you may know it as Zyprexa)

 

But I can't tell what size cuts you are taking, over what time frame you tapered the amounts given, and if you are tapering both Zyprexa and diazepam simultaneously (we don't recommend tapering more than one drug at a time)?

 

I am not making any cuts currently. The changes in these dosages were forced on me either in the hospital (in May) or right after being released from the hospital. So in May I got this new coctail of drugs (also at first diazepam for daytime, later they made me change to Lorazepam and that is the drug I cut in June to 0) that consists of Valdoxan (no changes), Diazepam (first they told me to take two pills, then when I was sleeping with that the doctor told me to reduce to 1,5 pills) and Olanzapine they put me on in the hospital in May (5 mg), then they reduced to 2,5 mg, then (on my request) to 1,25 mg (I had been taking it for a week or so and wanted to stop and the doctor agreed but said that I cut the last bit at home), but as I left the hospital and things got worse (I was taking less benzos) the doctor managed to convince me to reinstate to 2,5 mg of Olanzapine which I regret SO very much. I was in so much distress and nowhere to turn so I listened to the doctor... They managed to convince me in the hospital that all of this going on was my anxiety...

 

Later at home, reading this forum more I got a more clear picture again of what was going on. Desperate to get rid of the meds I have made one cut after the beginning of June - that was from 2,5 mg of Olanzapine to 1,875 mg, which I realise is a big cut, but I had no means to make a more precise cut from these pills (they break so very easily and no liquid form is available) and I was hoping that having taken the drug for such a short period of time, it would not be worse then cutting the benzos.

 

As much as I realise that I need to stabilise, I strongly believe that getting rid of the meds (especially the antipsychotic) is essential to recovery.

[Skyler]

Then in your sig., the line is not supposed to be going through the morning and lunchtime doses...  is it possible for you to take out the lines as they are confusing.  Thanks..  

 

I'm primarily on the benzo forum... you are taking how much lorazepam total on average?  Do you think you may be having interdose withdrawal symptoms.. we recommend evening out the Lorazepam so you are taking the same amount at evenly divided time intervals (5 to 6 times a day)  to keep blood levels even as the half life is so short.

 

Someone else will be along to talk to you about the Zyprexa and Valdoxan.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

PS.. could you use a paragraph format for your text as this makes your entries are easier to read.

[erer]

Then in your sig., the line is not supposed to be going through the morning and lunchtime doses... is it possible for you to take out the lines as they are confusing. Thanks..

 

I'm primarily on the benzo forum... you are taking how much lorazepam total on average? Do you think you may be having interdose withdrawal symptoms.. we recommend evening out the Lorazepam so you are taking the same amount at evenly divided time intervals (5 to 6 times a day) to keep blood levels even as the half life is so short.

 

Someone else will be along to talk to you about the Zyprexa and Valdoxan.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

PS.. could you use a paragraph format for your text as this makes your entries are easier to read.

 

I am not taking benzos during the day - morning or lunchtime.

 

Also thank you for stepping in and commenting on my thread.

 

I am not entirely sure what you mean by using paragraph style - do you mean that my paragraphs are too long for easy reading?

[Skyler]

erer..   We recommend taking Xanax in multiple evenly divided doses throughout the 24 hour day because of the prevalence of interdose withdrawal.  Do your withdrawal symptoms improve after you take the evening dose?

 

Currently:

Morning: 2,5  5 mg Diazepam 0,5 mg of Lorazepam (plus as needed) 

Lunch: 0 mg 2,5 mg Diazepam 0,5 mg of Lorazepam (but I cannot tolerate this much so I don't take the entire dosage)

Evening:

25 mg Valdoxan (agomelatine), 

10 mg -> 7,5 mg diazepam

 1,25 mg -> 2,5mg -> 1,875 mg Olanzapine (you may know it as Zyprexa) 

 

I do not understand your sig line... from what you have above, you take 25 mgs. of Valdozan, 7.5 mgs of diazepam, and 1.875 mgs of Zyprexa.  Everything else is crossed out, which would mean you no longer take that, including lorazepam... .  This makes it very difficult for mods to give you the help you request.  Please correct and update this so we can help you.

[erer]

Inm sorry,but I don't understand. Everything except Valdoxan, Diazepam and Olanzapine is crossed out because I am nolonger taking them. I have them in my signature for exactly that purpouse - so my history would be seen.

[Skyler]

Inm sorry,but I don't understand. Everything except Valdoxan, Diazepam and Olanzapine is crossed out because I am nolonger taking them. I have them in my signature for exactly that purpouse - so my history would be seen.

 

So you don't take Lorazepam any longer... I'm stuggleing to follow the medication changes, my apology.  When did you last cut the diazepam and Zyprexa, was this in April or May and you have been holding with no further changes since? The mods rely on your sig line for recent drug info and it's hard to put it into context without dates.  Thanks

[brassmonkey]

Hi erer-- I so sorry to hear that you're having so much trouble right now.  I have a couple of ideas but I need to take some time tonight when I get home from work to read over some of your posts and sort out what is going on.  For right now just hang tight and don't change anything.

[erer]

OMG! This is hell!!! The akathisia is back and it is SO bad I cannot take it!

 

Yesterday was already a very awful day - several horrible panic attacks, milder akathisia for hours. But today... I cannot take it a minute more!

 

The only change that I've made is cutting some Olanzapine 2,5 weeks ago, but then the symptoms came for a week and started getting better for the second week. But now... I will not survive this. I've had horrible stomach issues for the past about 5 days - could this be the reason? I don't know where olansapine (and other drugs) are finally absorbed...

[Fresh]

Stomach issues could be the problem . . . if everything is going straight through you , the medications will be too.

 

Did you end up changing brands of olanzapine?    If you did , your wave could be a response to that.

 

It's going to pass erer , just like all the other times.  It never lasts.   

Do the things you do that help , pacing slowly can be sort of rhythmical and calming.  Whatever has helped before.

[LoveandLight]

So sorry erer..hold on for advice. Wish I could help.

 

Much love and hugs to you xxx

[erer]

Did you end up changing brands of olanzapine?    If you did , your wave could be a response to that.

 

No I did not change brands.

[Skyler]

 

I am not making any cuts currently. The changes in these dosages were forced on me either in the hospital (in May) or right after being released from the hospital. So in May I got this new coctail of drugs (also at first diazepam for daytime, later they made me change to Lorazepam and that is the drug I cut in June to 0) that consists of Valdoxan (no changes), Diazepam (first they told me to take two pills, then when I was sleeping with that the doctor told me to reduce to 1,5 pills) and Olanzapine they put me on in the hospital in May (5 mg), then they reduced to 2,5 mg, then (on my request) to 1,25 mg (I had been taking it for a week or so and wanted to stop and the doctor agreed but said that I cut the last bit at home), but as I left the hospital and things got worse (I was taking less benzos) the doctor managed to convince me to reinstate to 2,5 mg of Olanzapine which I regret SO very much. I was in so much distress and nowhere to turn so I listened to the doctor... They managed to convince me in the hospital that all of this going on was my anxiety...

 

What you are experiencing now is due to the cuts you made at the end of May and into June.  You need to hold now for some months (maybe more) to let your CNS settle down.

 

A change in brand at this point would not have been helpful, but it's a minor player compared to the rapid changes that were foisted on you in the late spring.  You will be extra sensitive to even minor changes until your CNS settles down.  What you experienced is mostly due to withdrawal..  the emotional component of your anxiety sounds like it was a healthy fear of all the withdrawal changes that were foisted on you, which was unfortunately then fueled by neuro-emotions.  I'm glad your doc got you to up the Zyrexa dose.

 

Edited to include link.

[Skyler]

I was in hell before. But it was nothing compared to what I am going through now. Do not do what I did. I have been through a series of stages off hell, but I seriously did not know it could be this bad.

If you already know you have a bad reaction to tapering meds, do not attempt to just push through a rapid taper.

 

This was your self-admonition before the more recent changes that were made in the hospital... I don't know what else we can do now except to offer support.   I'm very sorry you find yourself in this position, but please, do not continue to make matters worse by tapering further at this point.   Recovery from precipitous and frequent reductions such as those you describe can take many months, sometimes years, and the more you make abrupt changes the longer it will take.  Again, please be good to yourself and LISTEN TO YOUR BODY, you only have one CNS.

 

Do a search, either with Google, or the search feature in the Symptoms and Self-care forum for strategies that have helped others who experienced akathisia.  You should also read The Windows and Waves pattern of recovery.

 

To search this site using Google.. enter the following string:  survivingantidepressants.org akathisia.

[erer]

No i will not taper, that's for sure.

 

But the fact that akathisia is back so badly,,,  Im desperate, today stayed alive thanks to my sis who just wouldnt leave my side for the whole day. But i vannot go through the same tomorrow, i just know. Considering taking either cyclodol or a benzo just to push the symptom down to survive it. I cannot go to the emergency room with this, they will not unddeerstan akathisia and will just put me to the psych ward and dope me up.

[erer]

 

 

I am not making any cuts currently. The changes in these dosages were forced on me either in the hospital (in May) or right after being released from the hospital. So in May I got this new coctail of drugs (also at first diazepam for daytime, later they made me change to Lorazepam and that is the drug I cut in June to 0) that consists of Valdoxan (no changes), Diazepam (first they told me to take two pills, then when I was sleeping with that the doctor told me to reduce to 1,5 pills) and Olanzapine they put me on in the hospital in May (5 mg), then they reduced to 2,5 mg, then (on my request) to 1,25 mg (I had been taking it for a week or so and wanted to stop and the doctor agreed but said that I cut the last bit at home), but as I left the hospital and things got worse (I was taking less benzos) the doctor managed to convince me to reinstate to 2,5 mg of Olanzapine which I regret SO very much. I was in so much distress and nowhere to turn so I listened to the doctor... They managed to convince me in the hospital that all of this going on was my anxiety...

 

What you are experiencing now is due to the cuts you made at the end of May and into June.  You need to hold now for some months (maybe more) to let your CNS settle down.

 

A change in brand at this point would not have been helpful, but it's a minor player compared to the rapid changes that were foisted on you in the late spring.  You will be extra sensitive to even minor changes until your CNS settles down.  What you experienced is mostly due to withdrawal..  the emotional component of your anxiety sounds like it was a healthy fear of all the withdrawal changes that were foisted on you, which was unfortunately then fueled by neuro-emotions.  I'm glad your doc got you to up the Zyrexa dose.

 

Edited to include link.

 

But I did a stupid thing - I cut the olansapine 2,5 weeks ago. Should I try reinstating?

[Skyler]

I'm not a goto antipsychotic or AD person... but I would.  And keep in mind, you will probably not be able to tell for some time if upping the dose the 2.5 mgs. is helpful.  Your system is very confused by all the changes you have made.

 

And then throw away... firmly, ANY further thoughts of tapering for a good long while. I'd say revisit the option in SIX months, (I'd think you need much longer than that... but at least make a contract with yourself to hold for that long) no sooner.

 

You might want to ask Alto to weigh in.. but please understand, it's discouraging to keep giving you advice which you 'forget' in a week or two, and then disregard with the result you keep self-harming with these medications.