OnaRage Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Wikipedia's first paragraph on this topic concerns me. It leads people to believe that more severe cases can be fixed by simply reinstating. We all know this is not the case. I wanted to edit the information but I don't really get how to. I thought it should have a reference to this site. What do you think?Antidepressant discontinuation syndrome From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Not to be confused with Serotonin syndrome. Antidepressant discontinuation syndrome is a condition that can occur following the interruption, dose reduction, or discontinuation of antidepressant drugs, includingselective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors (SSRIs) or Serotonin–norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs). The symptoms can include flu-like symptoms and disturbances in sleep, senses, movement, mood, and thinking. In most cases symptoms are mild, short-lived, and resolve without treatment. More severe cases are often successfully treated by reintroduction of the drug, which usually leads to resolution within one day. Celexa 20 mg from 4/28/11 to 9/28/11 - RESULT - Didn't help enough. Was moved to a new medication. Med prescribed by PCP with diag of GAD and AD. Zoloft 50 mg from 9/29/11 to 10/17/11 - RESULT - Symptoms getting worse not better. Moved to a new medication Prozac 20 mg from 10/18/11 to 11/1/11 - RESULT - It made me homocidal. That was new to me! So fun! :-( Effexor 75 mg to 150 mg from 11/2/11 to 6/9/12 - RESULT - Requested increase in dose as a work situation triggered PTSD and severe depression Zoloft 25 mg to 150 mg from 7/9/12 to 11/6/12 Zoloft 200 mg from 11/7/12 to 5/13/13 - RESULT - Medication not working. Was graduated off this too quickly by an emergency PNP who diagnosed me as BP BUSPAR 30 mg from 1/4/13 to 5/13/13 - RESULT - one 10 mg tab 3x/day - RESULT - Severe hot flashes, lethargy, unable to function Lamictal 50 mg 4/17/13 to 5/13/13 - RESULT - new PNP told me Lamictal could kill me and that we needed to transition me off immediately. Tried again for three days in March 2015. Had severe chest pains on day 2 so quit taking. Dropped all meds after going to yet another psychiatrist who gave me yet another diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder and wanted to change meds again. Cymbalta 30 mg to 60 mg to 20 mg from 12/27/13 to 2/24/15 then stopped taking altogether until 3/23 when reinstated 10 beads. Ativan .5 to 1 mg as needed since 2011 (at least). Not a daily med. Used mostly during periods of detox from antidepressants. Stopped taking in March 2015 due to fear of dependency and risk of causing further depression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Songbird Posted April 9, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 9, 2015 Well, it does say "often successfully treated" not "always", which I think is probably true, however the "resolution within one day" is way off beam, total nonsense. I also have a problem with this paragraph: "In the late 1990s, some investigators thought that the fact that symptoms emerged when antidepressants were discontinued might mean that antidepressants were causing addiction, and some used the term "withdrawal syndrome" to describe the symptoms. Some addictive substances cause physiological dependence, so that drug withdrawal causes suffering. These theories were abandoned, since addiction leads to drug-seeking behavior, and people taking antidepressants do not exhibit drug-seeking behavior. The term "withdrawal syndrome" is no longer used with respect to antidepressants, to avoid confusion with problems that arise from dependence or addiction.[1]" Are they saying that ADs do not cause physiological dependence? That's absolute rubbish. This is from the wikipedia "addiction" page: "Physical dependence occurs when the body has adjusted by incorporating the substance into its "normal" functioning – i.e., attains homeostasis – and therefore physical withdrawal symptoms occur upon cessation of use.[15] ... Withdrawal refers to physical and psychological symptoms experienced when reducing or discontinuing a substance that the body has become dependent on." They are trying to pretend this doesn't happen with AD withdrawal. They've twisted the meaning of dependence to mean only when people have cravings or drug-seeking behaviour. So "withdrawal" only happens with "addictive" drugs. With ADs, it isn't "withdrawal", it is only "discontinuation", which is caused by ... what exactly? Why do we get "discontinuation" symptoms if not from physical dependence from the body adjusting its homeostasis? It's weaselly semantics of the worst kind. It would be good to have correct information in wikipedia, but if you want to edit it, I think you will need to have some good references, e.g. to some reputable research. Perhaps Breggin, Healy, Shipko, etc. might be of some use... 2001–2002 paroxetine 2003 citalopram 2004-2008 paroxetine (various failed tapers) 2008 paroxetine slow taper down to 2016 Aug off paroxetine2016 citalopram May 20mg Oct 15mg … slow taper down2018 citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg 18 Nov 3.8mg 2019 15 Mar 3.6mg 21 May 3.4mg 26 Dec 3.2mg 2020 19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg 2021 29 Aug 2.4mg 15 Nov 2.3mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnaRage Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 Hell, I didn't read further than the first paragraph before getting irritated and wanting to correct it. I'll have to keep this issue in mind when I'm feeling better. It takes me a long time to read anything let alone draw references. :-) But, you're right. It's a bunch of crap there too! ARGH! Celexa 20 mg from 4/28/11 to 9/28/11 - RESULT - Didn't help enough. Was moved to a new medication. Med prescribed by PCP with diag of GAD and AD. Zoloft 50 mg from 9/29/11 to 10/17/11 - RESULT - Symptoms getting worse not better. Moved to a new medication Prozac 20 mg from 10/18/11 to 11/1/11 - RESULT - It made me homocidal. That was new to me! So fun! :-( Effexor 75 mg to 150 mg from 11/2/11 to 6/9/12 - RESULT - Requested increase in dose as a work situation triggered PTSD and severe depression Zoloft 25 mg to 150 mg from 7/9/12 to 11/6/12 Zoloft 200 mg from 11/7/12 to 5/13/13 - RESULT - Medication not working. Was graduated off this too quickly by an emergency PNP who diagnosed me as BP BUSPAR 30 mg from 1/4/13 to 5/13/13 - RESULT - one 10 mg tab 3x/day - RESULT - Severe hot flashes, lethargy, unable to function Lamictal 50 mg 4/17/13 to 5/13/13 - RESULT - new PNP told me Lamictal could kill me and that we needed to transition me off immediately. Tried again for three days in March 2015. Had severe chest pains on day 2 so quit taking. Dropped all meds after going to yet another psychiatrist who gave me yet another diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder and wanted to change meds again. Cymbalta 30 mg to 60 mg to 20 mg from 12/27/13 to 2/24/15 then stopped taking altogether until 3/23 when reinstated 10 beads. Ativan .5 to 1 mg as needed since 2011 (at least). Not a daily med. Used mostly during periods of detox from antidepressants. Stopped taking in March 2015 due to fear of dependency and risk of causing further depression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Songbird Posted April 9, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 9, 2015 I've been doing reasonably okay with my ultra-slow taper, but I don't feel strong enough at all to do any kind of protesting or fighting the system. I feel like a wimp, but just day-to-day life is enough to deal with. All I manage to do is post here. 2001–2002 paroxetine 2003 citalopram 2004-2008 paroxetine (various failed tapers) 2008 paroxetine slow taper down to 2016 Aug off paroxetine2016 citalopram May 20mg Oct 15mg … slow taper down2018 citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg 18 Nov 3.8mg 2019 15 Mar 3.6mg 21 May 3.4mg 26 Dec 3.2mg 2020 19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg 2021 29 Aug 2.4mg 15 Nov 2.3mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnaRage Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 Oh, Songbird, you sound like me! So sorry! Celexa 20 mg from 4/28/11 to 9/28/11 - RESULT - Didn't help enough. Was moved to a new medication. Med prescribed by PCP with diag of GAD and AD. Zoloft 50 mg from 9/29/11 to 10/17/11 - RESULT - Symptoms getting worse not better. Moved to a new medication Prozac 20 mg from 10/18/11 to 11/1/11 - RESULT - It made me homocidal. That was new to me! So fun! :-( Effexor 75 mg to 150 mg from 11/2/11 to 6/9/12 - RESULT - Requested increase in dose as a work situation triggered PTSD and severe depression Zoloft 25 mg to 150 mg from 7/9/12 to 11/6/12 Zoloft 200 mg from 11/7/12 to 5/13/13 - RESULT - Medication not working. Was graduated off this too quickly by an emergency PNP who diagnosed me as BP BUSPAR 30 mg from 1/4/13 to 5/13/13 - RESULT - one 10 mg tab 3x/day - RESULT - Severe hot flashes, lethargy, unable to function Lamictal 50 mg 4/17/13 to 5/13/13 - RESULT - new PNP told me Lamictal could kill me and that we needed to transition me off immediately. Tried again for three days in March 2015. Had severe chest pains on day 2 so quit taking. Dropped all meds after going to yet another psychiatrist who gave me yet another diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder and wanted to change meds again. Cymbalta 30 mg to 60 mg to 20 mg from 12/27/13 to 2/24/15 then stopped taking altogether until 3/23 when reinstated 10 beads. Ativan .5 to 1 mg as needed since 2011 (at least). Not a daily med. Used mostly during periods of detox from antidepressants. Stopped taking in March 2015 due to fear of dependency and risk of causing further depression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Songbird Posted April 9, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 9, 2015 It's okay, I'm doing pretty well, living a fairly normal life. It's just that the thought of any kind of conflict sounds way too stressful. Let us know if you do update Wikipedia. 2001–2002 paroxetine 2003 citalopram 2004-2008 paroxetine (various failed tapers) 2008 paroxetine slow taper down to 2016 Aug off paroxetine2016 citalopram May 20mg Oct 15mg … slow taper down2018 citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg 18 Nov 3.8mg 2019 15 Mar 3.6mg 21 May 3.4mg 26 Dec 3.2mg 2020 19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg 2021 29 Aug 2.4mg 15 Nov 2.3mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member cymbaltawithdrawal5600 Posted April 9, 2015 Member Share Posted April 9, 2015 How to edit a wiki article. Keep this in mind: When adding content and creating new articles an encyclopedic style with a formal tone is important. Instead of essay-like, argumentative, or opinionated writing, Wikipedia articles should have a straightforward, just-the-facts style. The goal of a Wikipedia article is to create a comprehensive and neutrally-written summary of existing mainstream knowledge about a topic. Accordingly, Wikipedia does not publish original research. An encyclopedia is, by its nature, a tertiary source that provides a survey of information already the subject of publication in the wider world. Ideally all information should be cited and verifiable by reliable sources. Sourcing requirements are significantly stricter in articles on living persons. So be prepared to back up your edits with current, accepted mainstream knowledge verifiable with creditable sources (as Songbird mentioned above), anecdotal reports just won't do, (I believe that was behind the demise of the pssd page in the wiki.) I just checked and the page is not 'protected' so anyone may edit it. Here's what it says at the top of the edit page: Your IP address will be publicly visible if you make any edits. If you log in or create an account, your edits will be attributed to a user name, among other benefits. Content that violates any copyrights will be deleted. Encyclopedic content must be verifiable. Work submitted to Wikipedia can be edited, used, and redistributed—by anyone—subject to certain terms and conditions. You won't, however, be linking to the SA pages, as that is not the purpose of an encyclopedia article. What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878 July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site. Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdt Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Wikipedia's first paragraph on this topic concerns me. It leads people to believe that more severe cases can be fixed by simply reinstating. We all know this is not the case. I wanted to edit the information but I don't really get how to. I thought it should have a reference to this site. What do you think? Antidepressant discontinuation syndrome From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Not to be confused with Serotonin syndrome. Antidepressant discontinuation syndrome is a condition that can occur following the interruption, dose reduction, or discontinuation of antidepressant drugs, includingselective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors (SSRIs) or Serotonin–norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs). The symptoms can include flu-like symptoms and disturbances in sleep, senses, movement, mood, and thinking. In most cases symptoms are mild, short-lived, and resolve without treatment. More severe cases are often successfully treated by reintroduction of the drug, which usually leads to resolution within one day. There is a history link at the top of the page... and from there you can get this http://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-articleinfo/index.php?article=Antidepressant_discontinuation_syndrome〈=en&wiki=wikipedia I don't really know what it means but it looks like edits were most active in 2006 and 2014 and there have been 1,156 revisions to the page... I am not sure maybe all pages have this many revisions but it seems like a lot to me. It may mean something more to you CW with your computer knowledge. Or it may be nothing... I can't say thought you may be interested in all. WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoast Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Good one, OnaRage. I had been bugged by it, too. If anyone edits please post back. A reasonable, cited comment as described above ought to be left alone, but it will be interesting to see. Reference to Breggin or Healy might not work, but research found in scholar.google.com should fly. Here is a poorly-formatted discussion about edits. Seems to be a real agenda to deny: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:SSRI_discontinuation_syndrome Wading into might be painful, but worth it. Trying to wade through this page will save wasted time, as it lets you know how dismissive the volunteer editors are of evidence reasonable people would accept. I might get to this during the week, and I hope others will, too. Here are some starters Alto posted, worth a look for sources. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/317-important-topics-in-journals-and-scientific-sources/ Another bit of data is found here. Some scrolling needed. ER visits per year becuz meds. http://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/DAWN2k11ED/DAWN2k11ED/DAWN2k11ED.pdf Table 33 says 119% rise in visits for AD reactions from 2005 to 2011. Not all are withdrawal, so it might not fly on wiki. Maybe wd data are available elsewhere. 2009: Cancer hospital said I had adjustment disorder because I thought they were doing it wrong. Their headshrinker prescribed Effexor, and my life set on a new course. I didn't know what was ahead, like a passenger on Disneyland's Matterhorn, smiling and waving as it climbs...clink, clink, clink. 2010: Post surgical accidental Effexor discontinuation by nurses, masked by intravenous Dilaudid. (The car is balanced at the top of the track.) I get home, pop a Vicodin, and ... Whooosh...down, down, down, down, down...goes the trajectory of my life, up goes my mood and tendency to think everything is a good idea.2012: After the bipolar jig was up, now a walking bag of unrelated symptoms, I went crazy on Daytrana (the Ritalin skin patch by Noven), because ADHD was a perfect fit for a bag of unrelated symptoms. I was prescribed Effexor for the nervousness of it, and things got neurological. An EEG showed enough activity to warrant an epilepsy diagnosis rather than non-epileptic ("psychogenic") seizures. 2013-2014: Quit everything and got worse. I probably went through DAWS: dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome. I drank to not feel, but I felt a lot: dread, fear, regret, grief: an utter sense of total loss of everything worth breathing about, for almost two years. I was not suicidal but I wanted to be dead, at least dead to the experience of my own brain and body. 2015: I began to recover after adding virgin coconut oil and organic grass-fed fed butter to a cup of instant coffee in the morning. I did it hoping for mental acuity and better memory. After ten days of that, I was much better, mood-wise. Approximately neutral. And, I experienced drowsiness. I could sleep. Not exactly happy, I did 30 days on Wellbutrin, because it had done me no harm in the past. I don't have the DAWS mood or state of mind. It never feel like doing anything if it means standing up. In fact, I don't especially like moving. I'm a brain with a beanbag body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Songbird Posted April 20, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 20, 2015 Basically, the editors are only accepting anything that comes from the "experts" in "mainstream medicine". We all know what that means. 2001–2002 paroxetine 2003 citalopram 2004-2008 paroxetine (various failed tapers) 2008 paroxetine slow taper down to 2016 Aug off paroxetine2016 citalopram May 20mg Oct 15mg … slow taper down2018 citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg 18 Nov 3.8mg 2019 15 Mar 3.6mg 21 May 3.4mg 26 Dec 3.2mg 2020 19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg 2021 29 Aug 2.4mg 15 Nov 2.3mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoast Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 And yet there are no references offered for the assertions in the first paragraph. 2009: Cancer hospital said I had adjustment disorder because I thought they were doing it wrong. Their headshrinker prescribed Effexor, and my life set on a new course. I didn't know what was ahead, like a passenger on Disneyland's Matterhorn, smiling and waving as it climbs...clink, clink, clink. 2010: Post surgical accidental Effexor discontinuation by nurses, masked by intravenous Dilaudid. (The car is balanced at the top of the track.) I get home, pop a Vicodin, and ... Whooosh...down, down, down, down, down...goes the trajectory of my life, up goes my mood and tendency to think everything is a good idea.2012: After the bipolar jig was up, now a walking bag of unrelated symptoms, I went crazy on Daytrana (the Ritalin skin patch by Noven), because ADHD was a perfect fit for a bag of unrelated symptoms. I was prescribed Effexor for the nervousness of it, and things got neurological. An EEG showed enough activity to warrant an epilepsy diagnosis rather than non-epileptic ("psychogenic") seizures. 2013-2014: Quit everything and got worse. I probably went through DAWS: dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome. I drank to not feel, but I felt a lot: dread, fear, regret, grief: an utter sense of total loss of everything worth breathing about, for almost two years. I was not suicidal but I wanted to be dead, at least dead to the experience of my own brain and body. 2015: I began to recover after adding virgin coconut oil and organic grass-fed fed butter to a cup of instant coffee in the morning. I did it hoping for mental acuity and better memory. After ten days of that, I was much better, mood-wise. Approximately neutral. And, I experienced drowsiness. I could sleep. Not exactly happy, I did 30 days on Wellbutrin, because it had done me no harm in the past. I don't have the DAWS mood or state of mind. It never feel like doing anything if it means standing up. In fact, I don't especially like moving. I'm a brain with a beanbag body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdt Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Makes one wonder who owns wiki... and will there ever be an underground they can't access. WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts