Vonant - introduction

[vonant]

hi

 

i was on the paxil progress community which apparently was shut down, so thats how i found this site. I hadn't checked in for a good while as i am fairly long in withdrawal and basically just dont want to think about it all the time. 

 

i was on citalopram for 3 years for anxiety

at one point my dose was 60mg but for most part it was 20mg

i didnt know anything about tappering so when i decided to quit all hell broke lose and i reinstated and then tried to tapper on my own (skipping days, biting pills in two etc.) Not recommended but my doctor didn't tell me anything/know anything. Anyway after i'd been off for a month i couldnt understand why i still had symptoms (haha so naive). i searched the web and found paxil progress. and in the following years i was in hell.

 

now it has been 3,5 years since my last dose. Only improvements are mentally. Im not in complete hell mentally anymore and I have more control of anxiety. But physically i am yet to see any big improvements. My weight is still up. I have severe sweating (mostly from armpits and feet), sexual issues with premature ejaculation/pleasureless climax etc, hair loss and generally hormonal problems with my whole body. My thyroid is out of wack. 

btw mentally i still have issues with memory, brain fog, anhedonia etc. I do however feel like i am going to heal. hopefully within the next year or so. I am just really hoping for some real TANGIBLE improvements where i can say okay now this is actually gone, and not just i think i am better now than i was at one point. 

 

i am 26 yo male.

 

 

[dalsaan]

Hi Vonant

 

Welcome to SA. You certainly an old hand at this. I'm glad to hear you have experienced some improvement and I hope you turn a corner on your other wd symptoms soon.

 

SA is organised a little differently to PP (we have a lot of former PP members here). This thread is where you discuss your personal experience. You might like to bookmark it so you can easily come back to it when you want to post an update. And, if you click follow this topic in the right hand corner above, you will get notified when someone posts on your thread.

 

Can I ask that you fill out your signature. Instructions on how to do that are here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

If you have any questions or are looking for support on something feel free to post them here and we will engage those.

 

Take care

 

Dalsaan

[mammaP]

Hi Vonant, welcome from me too, there is a wealth of information here about withdrawal and how to live through it if you have a browse around the forums. 

I am glad that you are improving, it is a long rocky road but you are getting there.  Many of us find that magnesium and fish oil help with withdrawal symptoms. I swear by magnesium baths, they are amazing but I use up to 400g in my bath, enough to make me float! 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2871-healing-bath-for-anyone-who-hurts-or-simply-needs-to-relax-httpwpmep5nnb-7wj/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

[vonant]

I am very  worried about the onset of new physical symptoms. Im already 3,5 years post Citalopram and thought I'd seen the worst of it. It started with inflammation. Flu like burning feeling but without temperature. I suspect it was caused by the fact I'd begun to exercise more, and maybe pushed myself too hard running. Now this flu like state seems to linger in the body and can flare up. Furthermore I experience chills and being very cold especially my back and upper body. What really worries me is weakness. My leg muscles and arms are extremely weak and sore like I've run a marathon the day before even though i've done nothing. I now have extreme shortness of breath. Walking up the stairs leaves me gasping for air, and recently it seems as though even beingin bed my lung capacity is weak. I have heavy breathing typing this. Like I can't get enough oxygen. And its not an anxiety thing. I am keeping amazingly calm about this. But it is very worrying. I was in the shower just now and washing my hair I noticed how my biceps were aching just from holding themselves up. I tried stretching out my arm and see how long I could hold it out but it felt so weak and achy. Then I started seeing stars kind of and feel dizzy. I though I was about to feint, and I got an overwhelming sensation I was going to throw up. I stumpled out of the bath still with soap in my hair and fell on my bed heavy breathing, rapid heart beat. I don't think it was a panic attack cause I wasn't really scared. But I'm worried, Is this part of withdrawal or am I experiencing something it else? This seems very serious and dangerous. It reminds of me of what it must be like to have been bitten by a tic or something. Like my respirational system has slowed down. And is getting slower and slower and weaker and weaker. I worry i am going to die.

[vonant]

:,(

[WiggleIt]

I'm too new to these boards to say one way or another, but perhaps you could get checked by a doctor.  Obviously, you don't want to take anything they give you if they start offering pills to fix you, but you could at least see if there's anything going on and see if they can offer you any kid of noninvasive tests.

[oskcajga]

I am very  worried about the onset of new physical symptoms. Im already 3,5 years post Citalopram and thought I'd seen the worst of it. It started with inflammation. Flu like burning feeling but without temperature. I suspect it was caused by the fact I'd begun to exercise more, and maybe pushed myself too hard running. Now this flu like state seems to linger in the body and can flare up. Furthermore I experience chills and being very cold especially my back and upper body. What really worries me is weakness. My leg muscles and arms are extremely weak and sore like I've run a marathon the day before even though i've done nothing. I now have extreme shortness of breath. Walking up the stairs leaves me gasping for air, and recently it seems as though even beingin bed my lung capacity is weak. I have heavy breathing typing this. Like I can't get enough oxygen. And its not an anxiety thing. I am keeping amazingly calm about this. But it is very worrying. I was in the shower just now and washing my hair I noticed how my biceps were aching just from holding themselves up. I tried stretching out my arm and see how long I could hold it out but it felt so weak and achy. Then I started seeing stars kind of and feel dizzy. I though I was about to feint, and I got an overwhelming sensation I was going to throw up. I stumpled out of the bath still with soap in my hair and fell on my bed heavy breathing, rapid heart beat. I don't think it was a panic attack cause I wasn't really scared. But I'm worried, Is this part of withdrawal or am I experiencing something it else? This seems very serious and dangerous. It reminds of me of what it must be like to have been bitten by a tic or something. Like my respirational system has slowed down. And is getting slower and slower and weaker and weaker. I worry i am going to die.

 

Hmm, I've never personally experienced these symptoms but I've heard others describe them.  You could go to a doctor to rule out any other issues, I don't think there's much that you can do about it other than to stay calm.  I'm really sorry you're going through this so far out, please feel free to PM me if you run into any more serious issues or just want to chat.

[Jaywill]

I have had all that and hit the worst in July at 23 months off. I am now 34 months off and doing better. I was hospitalized for a week in October because all my symptoms were like yours and i had a blood pressure of 60/30. I finally got better when i ended up in the hospital and my blood volume was so low that they transfused 4 bags of fluid in 4 hours . since them i have continued to see my naturopath and bowen therapist to improve my nervous system. I am taking trace minerals and that has helped

[vonant]

 I am very worried about recent developments in my otherwise steady but long withdrawal (3,5 years post Citalopram). Is there a risk that the autonomic imbalance caused by the SSRI can trigger permanent irreversible auto immune disorders?

[Altostrata]

vonant, I don't think anyone can answer that question. The origins of autoimmune disorders are mysterious.

 

Have you been diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder?

 

I see you also discussed this here Am I developing Chronic Fatigue Syndrome 3,5 years out?

[btdt]

I find this interesting as I know it. 

I have a couple of questions I would like to ask of anyone who is here:

 

Are your eyes red after a shower?  Is the blood pressure an up and down thing.. it goes up they try to treat it then it goes too low and you can't get up?  Does the bp seem to fluctuate with these symptoms of illness?  Do you seem to go for a long stretch taking antibiotics but not getting really well?  How about steroids .. tried them how did they react?  

 

I don't know what it is but I know it. 

 

I have been dx for years with chronic fatigue fibro.. but this is not that.. or if it is I never had these symptoms till after my ct from effexor. 

It may well be something different.. I have no clue. 

[vonant]

Thanks for replying Alto. No I have not. Can a doctor diagnose it? But I am experiencing a sutten onset of symptoms that all fit ME or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I know a lot of symptoms are shared and overlap but I am really worried about this and how it came on so sudden after years of pretty steady withdrawal: Intense weakness in legs and arms. Exercise intolerence. Flu like feeling burning skin/ hot flashes. -This started as the result of exercise but now seems to be constant.- Also coldness, breathlessness and nausea.  But the constant flu/hot influenza feeling but without temperature is really worrying.

 

Basically I guess I would just like to hear that this exact scenario has happened to many in withdrawal and then subsided. Or if this has been reported before by people and if so did they turn out to have autoimmune disorder? Is there a history of people who have developed autoimmune illness in withdrawal and still suffer many years after?

[Altostrata]

Many withdrawal symptoms are similar to chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia, both of which have autonomic components. Neither is an autoimmune disorder, which has biological markers and can be diagnosed by immunologists.

 

Unstable blood pressure is an autonomic condition.

 

If you got it after going off drugs, most likely it is withdrawal syndrome. See

 

What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Recovery

[vonant]

Thought I'd update as I am living through very desperate times right now and don't know what to do. I am no longer able to work. I am housebound and very weak. Walking and physical activity is at a minimum. If I attempt too much I will experience these symptoms later in the evening: Nausea, fever without temperature, burning skin, internal coldness. The flu thing is alway lingering. This is very new. Never had any of this before and thought I was about to recover.  Alto, if you read this, you said you developed "post-exertional malaise" in withdrawal. Could you elaborate on that, was it similar to what I am experiencing? Has anybody experienced this? God help me. I read somewhere you mentioned three fases of withdrawal. The acute fase,  the depression/anxiety fase, and the autonomic fase. As it turns out I am defintely better in terms of my mental outlook. I am much calmer and positive. So for my body to slip into this fatigue mode is just devestating right now. Is it that autonomic fase that is kicking in extra hard now so far post drugs?

[Altostrata]

I did not develop "post-exertional malaise" in withdrawal, it must have been someone else.

 

Perhaps you should look at the possibility you have food sensitivities. The first step would be a bland exclusion diet, to see if you feel better.

[Petunia]

Thanks for updating vonant, I'm sorry you are still feeling so unwell. It might have been me who you are thinking of related to "post-exertional malaise", I commented in the thread you started in the symptoms section a while back.

 

I'm still experiencing much of what you are, after just over 2 years drug free, so I'm not much help with giving you a future outlook. Like you, my mental outlook is better, but for me it seems to be connected somewhat to my physical symptoms, its hard to be positive and hopeful when you are feeling so sick physically. I seem to cycle between anxiety/arousal/acute symptoms and depression/fatigue/weakness.  I get brief periods, usually in the evenings where I feel fine and almost normal.

 

I've had these episodes of fatigue and weakness from quite early, so to me, they are not new. I've also had a similar experience of being suddenly very weak while in the shower and thinking I was about to faint, being unable to hold my arms up, heart palpitations etc

 

Like you, I have to be very careful with exercise, overdoing it can bring on sudden intense dizzyness, flu-like symptoms, blurry, dim vision, and a whole host of other frightening sensations. On some days I seem to be able to do more than other days, so I find it very frustrating and confusing.

 

It sounds like these new symptoms started about a month ago? Caused by over exercising. When did you stop working and become housebound? Did anything else stressful happen in your life? Did anything change?

 

As for patterns and stages of withdrawal, there is the  The Windows and Waves Pattern of Recovery   

 

and this  Phases of SSRI Withdrawal | James Heaney

 

You might also find this interesting:  http://www.madinamerica.com/2013/10/setbacks/

 

As Alto mentioned, you may have developed some food sensitivities. I've spent some time adjusting my diet and at one point went very bland, but came to the conclusion there was no real connection apart from the obvious things like sugar, caffeine and very processed foods with lots of chemicals in it.

 

But some people do develop an intolerance to certain things like gluten, dairy, histamine, if you notice you feel worse after eating certain kinds of foods, that might be a clue, but in my experience, it can be difficult to work out and very easy to become overly concerned with every food you put in your mouth, which can then lead to more anxiety and stress.

 

Are you taking any vitamins or supplements? These can sometimes make symptoms worse.

 

Unfortunately, so far, there is no cure for protracted withdrawal, apart from time, and some people just seem to take a long time to recover no matter what they do. It usually happens in a windows and waves kind of pattern. Often waves can be triggered by increased stress and this can happen after a period of recovery, sometimes when a person has been drug free and doing well for several years.

 

It would be great if you would put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature. Doing this helps people understand your context, it appears below each of your posts. Here are instructions for how to do it:

 

http://survivinganti...your-signature/

[vonant]

Hi Petunia. Thank you for your answer. It is a relief to hear I am not completely alone in this, although I am sorry you a suffering. Actually my mother took me to an "alternative" specialist yesterday who suggested a foodplan that takes out alot of things as well as starting alot of vitamins/supplements. Turns out I have a lot of fungus candida as well as iron defeciency. But I have to say I am really frightened typing this as I just woke up with a severe new problem. I have extreme blurry vision and can hardly make out the words on my screen. Its been over and hour so it can't just be waking up. I am 26 so what is going on. This is so scarry. Have you experienced blurry vision? Also, are you not worried about CFS?

[LoveandLight]

Oh, that's horrible, Vonant. I'm so sorry. Xx

[vonant]

This is horrible indeed. But at least it has now forced me to take action more than ever. I never changed my diet or anything in withdrawal as I thought it was all just a matter a time. But after this I feel I must do whatever it takes to provide my body with everything it needs. I have to take action now. I guess I havn't been too good on my body even in withdrawal in turns of eating habbits and I was even getting drunk on weekends alot with friends. Trying to lead my life the way I normally woud I guess. I have taken up meditation as well. I WILL make it through this. This candida thing is actually a hope that it might have added to or even caused some of the problems I'm having. Just had a look at the symptoms of candida and they include chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, bloating and even visual problems so without getting my hopes up I will try and kill this fungus with the help of that specialist I mentioned. At least it wont hurt. As far as vitamins and supplements go I know it is a bit risky from what I've heard here and it scares me a little but I feel I am beyond the point of no return and I have to try and do what she suggests even though it involves alot of supplements.

[LoveandLight]

Vonant, maybe you could show your specialist this website, specifically something that says that supplements need to be taken with caution and which ones might cause particular problems? She might be able to help getting started on them slowly and gradually. Good luck.

[vonant]

She is completely on board with it and I am starting slowly. I'd rather not tbh but I must try something. Btw is there a supplements thread on this forum? Can't seem too find it.

[Altostrata]

Getting drunk on weekends can indeed set your recovery back.

[vonant]

Guys. I am so scared. I am afraid my life well end soon. It is going the wrong direction. I was supposed to get better. I am comming up on four years and now this happens. An explotion of symptoms I never had and I am practically bedbound. This must be full scale dysautonomia.

 

- severe muscle weakness

- vertigo (rocking like on a boat)

- severe nausea comming and going randomly

- double vision

- sweating

- distented abdonman

- extreme thirst

- dry mouth, nose and eyes

- cold feet and hands

- frequent urination

- weird sounds from intestines and throat

- flu like, feverish sensations all over body

- fibromyalgia

- hot flashes

- feeling cold to the bone

- burning sensations

- muscle/nerve spasms all over body

 

 

I've had the sweating and bloating since comming off but now all this. It feels like it has stepped up its level. ten levels. level up. I am so worried. I feel my situation is so unlike anybody elses. Every one else is getting better slowly. I stayed the same for years and then bam. I am worse than ever.

[ang]

Hi vonant

 

So so sorry you are having a setback

 

 I  DO  suggest you get your heart ecg done, and any other tests to make sure there is not some underlying physical cause.........  the eCG is important..................as citalopram has a bad reputation for

upsetting the heart.........  Qv interval.............

 

Then if all those normal type tests, thyroid, full blood count, liver function tests, etc................. are fine............ then just wait it out................

 

please let us know how you get on............

[Altostrata]

Did you take anything that might upset your nervous system? Antibiotics, alcohol, recreational drugs, supplements?

 

By the way, our Symptoms and Self-care forum has topics about supplements and suggestions about how to cope with symptoms.
 

[oskcajga]

Guys. I am so scared. I am afraid my life well end soon. It is going the wrong direction. I was supposed to get better. I am comming up on four years and now this happens. An explotion of symptoms I never had and I am practically bedbound. This must be full scale dysautonomia.

 

- severe muscle weakness

- vertigo (rocking like on a boat)

- severe nausea comming and going randomly

- double vision

- sweating

- distented abdonman

- extreme thirst

- dry mouth, nose and eyes

- cold feet and hands

- frequent urination

- weird sounds from intestines and throat

- flu like, feverish sensations all over body

- fibromyalgia

- hot flashes

- feeling cold to the bone

- burning sensations

- muscle/nerve spasms all over body

 

 

I've had the sweating and bloating since comming off but now all this. It feels like it has stepped up its level. ten levels. level up. I am so worried. I feel my situation is so unlike anybody elses. Every one else is getting better slowly. I stayed the same for years and then bam. I am worse than ever.

 

I'll echo Altostrata in asking how these symptoms came to be - did you just suddenly wake up one morning and have all of these symptoms?  Or did you consume something or get into a stressful situation, etc?

[vonant]

The symptoms evolved extremely gradually. I noticed I'd started doing stretches at work. My legs were sore from standing. Didn't think much of it. I thought my bike had a flat tire because it was getting heavier etc. Then I started coming down with the flu. And I noticed a pattern. It was always in the days following a jog or a physical activity. Then I noticed it wasn't the flu at all. I had no fever even though it felt just like it. Then I just became weaker and weaker. I also noticed I'd even begun to sit down when I peed. Retrospectively probably simply because I wouldn't have to stand. breathing became heavier and slower. I also had occasional episodes of feeling extremely cold. Even hot showers couldnt warm me. Episodes of nausea became more and more frequent. Now I have daily nausea and vertigo and extreme weakness together with the flu like/burning sensations. I can barely walk more than a few meters. I can't think of any one thing that would have triggered it. Or, I can but the bad things where nothing new. My hope is that my overall life style was bad over the years and my body somehow said enough enough and that I can somehow change things around and get relief from some symptoms with the massive life style changes I am now making with the help of a skilled naturepath focussing on diet, sleep, supplements etc. I'm not even religious but please pray for me.I've never been anywhere close to this state of (non)being and death and suicide is occupying my concience daily.

[oskcajga]

The symptoms evolved extremely gradually. I noticed I'd started doing stretches at work. My legs were sore from standing. Didn't think much of it. I thought my bike had a flat tire because it was getting heavier etc. Then I started coming down with the flu. And I noticed a pattern. It was always in the days following a jog or a physical activity. Then I noticed it wasn't the flu at all. I had no fever even though it felt just like it. Then I just became weaker and weaker. I also noticed I'd even begun to sit down when I peed. Retrospectively probably simply because I wouldn't have to stand. breathing became heavier and slower. I also had occasional episodes of feeling extremely cold. Even hot showers couldnt warm me. Episodes of nausea became more and more frequent. Now I have daily nausea and vertigo and extreme weakness together with the flu like/burning sensations. I can barely walk more than a few meters. I can't think of any one thing that would have triggered it. Or, I can but the bad things where nothing new. My hope is that my overall life style was bad over the years and my body somehow said enough enough and that I can somehow change things around and get relief from some symptoms with the massive life style changes I am now making with the help of a skilled naturepath focussing on diet, sleep, supplements etc. I'm not even religious but please pray for me.I've never been anywhere close to this state of (non)being and death and suicide is occupying my concience daily.

 

Could you please answer a couple more questions:

 

1.  How long did this progression of symptoms take - 1 month, 1 week?

 

2.  How long has it now been since you've felt this way?

 

3.  Are your symptoms constant, or do you have breaks and return to the state you described yourself in when you first posted on this topic?  (i.e., windows of how you felt during WD relative to this relatively hellish state)?

[vonant]

I'm not sure when the first signs of weakness appeared because they must have been so mild. But I'd said the progression has happened over 3 months maybe 4. I'm weaker now than last week I think so I don't even know if I have seen the worst of it.

 

the symptoms do vary in intensity during the day. Naseau comes and goes several times a day but I have had 2 days without it now. but it is deffinitely is a new "state" I'm in. I have not returned to my previous state of no fatigue or other physical symptoms aside from sweating, bloating and thirst, at any point. It feels like a condition or state that my body has gone into. Like fighting cells or something has stepped up their game against an invisble virus. This could be autoimmune things going on.

[oskcajga]

I'm not sure when the first signs of weakness appeared because they must have been so mild. But I'd said the progression has happened over 3 months maybe 4. I'm weaker now than last week I think so I don't even know if I have seen the worst of it.

 

the symptoms do vary in intensity during the day. Naseau comes and goes several times a day but I have had 2 days without it now. but it is deffinitely is a new "state" I'm in. I have not returned to my previous state of no fatigue or other physical symptoms aside from sweating, bloating and thirst, at any point. It feels like a condition or state that my body has gone into. Like fighting cells or something has stepped up their game against an invisble virus. This could be autoimmune things going on.

 

First, I'm really sorry that you're going through this.  I have been through difficult times in my life during withdrawal, and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.  It's truly torture. 

 

Have you had your blood hormones tested in the last 3 months?  That would be my first round of tests I'd carry out if I were in your position.  It would be a good idea to get all of your bloodwork done to rule out something like diabetes, renal challenges, liver challenges, etc. 

 

If all that comes back clean and normal, then I'd have to assume it's something related to withdrawal/nervous system issues. 

 

I honestly don't think there's going to be a quick fix for your issues - but if it's something like an absurdly low THS you may get some "quick" relief from a thyroid hormone dosage.

 

So I'd go get all that bloodwork done just to see what's going on - it's fairly non-invasive and really can't exacerbate your symptoms, and low cost (if you have insurance).

 

Let us know if you get all that blood work done and what the results are.

[vonant]

my bloodwork was all normal apart from slightly low on vitamin D

[Altostrata]

Are you still drinking? The nausea suggests you have a physical illness, it's not withdrawal syndrome.

[oskcajga]

my bloodwork was all normal apart from slightly low on vitamin D

 

   I don't know what else it could be then.  I'd go to see a neurologist and see what their opinion on this subject is.  I think it's worth a shot to see what they think. 

 

If they don't know then it's probably some sort of strange withdrawal symptom.

 

Please keep us updated on your condition.

[Altostrata]

It doesn't sound like a neurological problem to me. It sounds like a digestive problem, or something else.

[Cherry47]

I have recently developed nausea after seven months off the drugs along with fluey symptoms and weakness. I tried probiotics for two weeks which maybe helped slightly but then thought they may have brought on the fluey symptoms as I can't tolerate supplements. So stopped taking them today hoping to feel better but nothing so far. Have always had to stick to a fairly bland diet but now seem to be losing my appetite again as well. (I have CFS and am just getting over a cold so hard to work out what is happening but the nausea is definitely something new and different)