leahy Tapering off Remeron, headaches, nausea, sleep

[leahy]

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/06/22/magical-fat-that-increases-good-cholesterol-and-lowers-abdominal-obesity-in-women.aspx

 

My cholesterol is not good. It has not been good for many years due to the huge weight gain from Remeron and my huge waist circumference.

 

I refuse to take statins. I have researched coconut oil for years. I think it will help my cholesterol levels. We shall see when I go back for blood tests in a couple of months.

 

I like Dr. Mercola's work so I posted one of his articles. But there are many other articles that support the fact that coconut fat increases good cholesterol.

 

Thanks for thinking of me, AliG. xx

[AliG]

Leahy.      I'm not sure either.  It's tricky. Just saying  :  be careful .  I refuse to take Statins also , but my cholesterol is through the roof !  According to the doctor's , I'm a heart attack waiting to happen !  Should be on Statins , but came home two years ago and ripped up the script, and threw it in the bin . They do in your brain and muscles etc.  For men , it's not kind .

We'll see.  The drugs do wacky things . I'll take my chances , on no drugs !

Love

Ali

[leahy]

I'll experiment on myself. I do this after researching and also with an open mind. I am not recommending anything - just experimenting.

 

Both my kids (38 and 40 years old) are paleo.  Both are paleo - meat, fat, and vegetables mostly. Half and half in their coffee, real butter, bacon, and lots of eggs, olive oil, coconut oil are staples in their diet.

 

I get my inspiration from them. They are perfect specimens. Lean, muscular and strong. 

 

So we shall see. High LDL and Triglycerides do scare me. My endo thinks it's due to another huge weight gain of 25 pound this year.

[AliG]

Leahy.       So ,not sure.  My brothers are the same .  Is it the right thing for us , though ?  I think you can get away with it when young , but after the drugs and years , not so sure. Like you ,experimenting and learning.  Not sure about the "High Protein, Low Carb " thing anymore .Maybe , it's the opposite .High carb, low fat / vegan .

Who knows ?  I'm starting to think its the same as the drugs - " follow the money " . !!

Meat /Dairy  industry ?  Lots of $ $.  Pay off scientists & doctors to tell the story .

So cynical , these days .

Ali

[leahy]

You are correct. We are misinformed continuously. They call this planting of masking of information 'astroturfing'. You're not cynical. You are smart. Everything is about money.

 

If we ate like my grandmother did from her 'garden' which looked like a farm to me. Fresh eggs from the chicken coop and a great jug of homemade red wine from her grapes we would be much healthier.

 

Fat is good, high complex carbs from vegetables (not bread) and protein makes sense to me. I'm not sure about dairy but I like it. I respect vegetarians but I need chicken and fish. I'm still hungry from the remeron forcing me to eat or I'll get a headache.

 

http://authoritynutrition.com/top-9-biggest-lies-about-dietary-fat-and-cholesterol/

 

 

"There has never been solid evidence for the idea that these [saturated] fats cause disease. We only believe this to be the case because nutrition policy has been derailed over the past half-century by a mixture of personal ambition, bad science, politics, and bias."

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/07/27/saturated-fat-cholesterol.aspx

[AliG]

These  drugs " warp " everything.   However,  regarding diet , they say " dairy " is one of the the most carcinogenic substances, ever. Only ever meant for baby cows ! Not fit for humans .

[leahy]

I did her that about dairy, Ali. My son is adamant about it. He says exactly what you say about dairy. He is a big fan of Marksdailyapple.com. My kids and I are having a bit of role reversal here. I used to be the one who was adamant about nutrients and such.

 

I am a believer but these days I am just hanging on waiting for this storm to pass. WD takes all my energy. There is hardly any energy left over for zealous living.

 

These drug truly do 'warp' everything. There's no doubt.

[AliG]

Leahy.       I get it . Me too.  It's enough just to get through the day . Any extra , is just too much . Mark Sisson  ( Primal / paleo ) . I'm not sure about . They are saying " Paleo " puts on weight  & is bad for blood sugar control .  Not sure. 

[Terry4949]

Hi leahy, I was just wondering how you are doing your taper , do you get it in liquid form or do you take it as a tablet , if you take it in tablet form how do you manage to get the amount right when you drop to a lower dose , meaning the same dosage every day , only I don't think I can get it in liquid form and I have not got a clue how you cut a tablet into smaller doses and keep it the same , the other thing with the breaking of the tablet is it says do not crush or break the tablet in to two as it has a coating on it that allows it to reach the stomache without it causing irritation , I want to make sure that I am getting the right dose every day rather than guessing , I have now been on 30mg since September and have given it long enough and I feel it has made my withdrawal symptoms worse and I don't think there will be any stabilising so really want to start my taper , the sooner the better , do you get bad dreams from this med , my sleep was great before I went on this med i hardly ever dreamt , but this knocks me out and has caused me to have night terrors , some nights I wake up with such a start as the dreams seam so real , my daughter has woken in the night and has come into wake me as she says i am shouting and thrashing about wilst I'm asleep , what the hell have they done to me as I say I have never had a bad night sleep before taking this med .

[Ali]

Could be it's good cholesterol though? Think there are now mixed views on whether high cholesterol is a problem in itself. I'm no expert though.

 

I'm so so glad you're feeling that much better Leahy. It must be such a relief. Good on you for getting through the storm. Long may this continue

[leahy]

Yes, Ali, you are correct - it is something about good cholesterol. Thanks for you kind words, Ali and AliG.  xx

 

 

Hi leahy, I was just wondering how you are doing your taper , do you get it in liquid form or do you take it as a tablet , if you take it in tablet form how do you manage to get the amount right when you drop to a lower dose , meaning the same dosage every day , only I don't think I can get it in liquid form and I have not got a clue how you cut a tablet into smaller doses and keep it the same , the other thing with the breaking of the tablet is it says do not crush or break the tablet in to two as it has a coating on it that allows it to reach the stomache without it causing irritation , I want to make sure that I am getting the right dose every day rather than guessing , I have now been on 30mg since September and have given it long enough and I feel it has made my withdrawal symptoms worse and I don't think there will be any stabilising so really want to start my taper , the sooner the better , do you get bad dreams from this med , my sleep was great before I went on this med i hardly ever dreamt , but this knocks me out and has caused me to have night terrors , some nights I wake up with such a start as the dreams seam so real , my daughter has woken in the night and has come into wake me as she says i am shouting and thrashing about wilst I'm asleep , what the hell have they done to me as I say I have never had a bad night sleep before taking this med .

Terry,

 

I remember 17 years ago telling pdoc I was having bad dreams. She said so what? It's only a dream! After a while I Had NO dreams at all. We don't always remember dreams but it is an important part of normal sleep. There is nothing normal about remeron sleep.

 

If you scan my thread I describe the various ways I've tried to facilitate my taper. From 60 to 30 I did 15 mg drops. I DO NOT RECOMMEND THAT!  My pdoc had me do that. Idiot. I had no idea why I was so seriously sick.

 

From 30mg, I started by shaving with a knife from 30 mg pill. One shave one night then two when I thought I was ok and so on. When it looked like I could I used a pill cutter, cut 30 mg in half and then halved the other half to get 22.5.

 

I tried SolTabs with bad results - I think it was the aspartame. I tried 15 mg tablets with bad results so now I am afraid to change the pill. I keep cutting the 30 mg pill.

 

SquirrleyGirl very kindly taught me how to weigh and I really like that. I have been cutting and shaving my pills to get the right weight and the put them in a cool gelatin capsule. That's sometime the most fun I have all day. Recently I have been weighing to get the 10 mg pieces. I just made some 10 mg pieces for the next four days. I put them in a baggie. Yes, the coating is off but I haven't had any problems from that.

 

I have not been successful with making a liquid or getting it compounded to a liquid. My pdoc was confused by my requests. I can't deal with her or getting my insurance company to cover a compounding pharmacy. So I continue weighing.

 

Hope this helps. There's lots of info on SA about tapering methods. Mine are probably the least precise.

 

L

 

 

 

[Hibari]

Leahy you have done so much research on what will make you heal.  It's an inspiration and I know you will reach a no med life! 

[leahy]

My pdoc was much more supportive and compassionate Thursday, March 17, 2016. . I told her I was at 8mg. (I up dosed from 7.2 mg) Again, she couldn’t understand why I am taking so long. She said she would just stop and deal with a headache for two weeks. I explained that it is not two weeks nor just a headache. I have been incapacitated for 13 months and went into more detail. I also described that when I feel better I cut again and again because I am anxious to get off, making myself sick. I also re-described my spinal jerking and she said they were zaps! Halehujah! She used the word zaps. She must be reading up on this "wd" thing. Maybe she’s starting to catch on.

 

She thought about what I said and compassionately responded, “Where were you last year at this time? 45 mg. Why are you rushing? Slow down. You will get there. It’s like losing weight - a little bit at a time and you lose weight over time.”

 

Oh my God! Did you ever? She made a 180 degree turn. She told me about a patient she is concerned about who went to the Mayo clinic and they got him off valium. Then they prescribed Zoloft and he is having the same symptoms as he was with valium wd - dizzy with motion sickness like on a cruise.

 

We know what happened there, now dont we. The Mayo clinic thinks they detoxed the guy leaving him in bad shape from a rapid withdrawal then responded to the wd symptoms with Zoloft. It’s a "Classic Story" that keeps being repeated.

 

If only "drug experts" read what Rhi wrote, they might begin to understand the problem.

 

"A lot of people, including healthcare practitioners in fact, I guess, most people are operating from entirely the wrong paradigm, or way of thinking, about these meds. They're thinking of them like aspirin, as something that has an effect when it's in your system, and then when it gets out of your system the effect goes away..."

[Shep]

Hi, Leahy. I wanted to stop by and see how you are doing. Thanks for the kind words you wrote on my Intro today. I was feeling a bit isolated, so your kindness was very much appreciated.

 

I've read some of your Intro thread and you are making remarkable progress on your taper. And it sounds like you're learning a lot about supplements, too. I just started looking into melatonin and magnesium and they are both helping me sleep. 

 

It sounds like your doctor really is learning! And that's a good thing. I'm sure you're a great influence on her. I'm glad you've got a good doctor who is listening to you. That means the world. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way. 

[freespirit]

Hi Leahy,

 

Thanks for your comments on my thread. Good news about the shift in your doc. I guess it's possible that some are open to learning about WD and the impact of these crazy drugs. Let's hope she keeps that attitude. You have come a long way...

[leahy]

Shep,

 

Thank you. You bring a beautiful energy with you to this place. In spite of the fact that you have been to hell and back.

 

Even when you are tired and weary your light shines through.   You are a bright light to me and to other people, too.  

 

It's so nice to meet you.

 

Leahy

[Shep]

Aw, thanks, Leahy.  Hope you are doing well today.  

[leahy]

I feel better now than I felt in the past year and a half. I've been cutting xanax in fear of my NP deciding to not give me the script for it. I didn't tell her I'm cutting but have cut now - so I am ready and I have a stock pile. That's the only thing she has over me. ANY doctor will give me a script for a harmless little AD. <sarcasm> Someday I'll be done with her.

 

I am sleeping better now. It seems to me, as I always felt, that it is the Remeron cuts that send me into a tailspin. I was frightened because many say that benzo wd is worse, using Remeron to 'help' them. I needed to find out for myself. Anyway, if Remeron helps them I might as well use being on a low dose to help me get off xanax, since this is where I am at anyway.

 

Still, when I make a cut in Remeron I get extremely sick. Been squeaking down to 10.2 the past couple of days and I can feel the difference. Waking up at 3 AM with racing thoughts unable to sleep. I take xanax and melatonin then. I save xanax for sleep still like I always did. I cut 1 mg in smaller pieces taking the minimum that works for me, only when desperate. This method goes against the rules but seems to be working for me. I went from 4 mg to .75 mg without actually beginning a 'proper' xanax taper.

 

I have no headache and I am not nauseous. I am not jumping out of my skin, dizzy or itching like crazy.  I am grateful for a month of reprieve. 

[apace41]

This is really excellent news, Leahy!

 

Let's hope that this is more than just a month of reprieve but rather the start of feeling better for the longer term.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Hibari]

So glad you are feeling better and getting some relief Leahy!  

 

No matter what the "proper way" is, ultimately we have to trust what our bodies are telling us.   You are doing that and it's working.

 

Hibari

[leahy]

Thank you apace and Hibari for your encouraging words. My method is one of survival. Not sleeping is what makes me unmanageably sick. I cannot survive this taper without sleep. If that means saving xanax for getting some sleep, so be it.

[brassmonkey]

Great to hear it Leahy.  Doing what needs to be done is the best way down.

[leahy]

I am a huge fan of Dr. Mercola. I was pleased to see he posted this piece on supplements and antidepressants.

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/06/02/supplements-for-mental-health.aspx

[apace41]

I am a huge fan of Dr. Mercola. I was pleased to see he posted this piece on supplements and antidepressants.

 

Good article, Leahy.  Thanks.

 

One funny aspect (not really funny, but...) is that they have done such a good job marketing Abilify as an adjunct antidepressant (an off-label use), that even Mercola refers to it as an antidepressant when, in fact, it is an atypical antipsychotic!

 

Hope you are doing well.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[leahy]

Thank you very much, Andy. I hope you are doing well.

 

Not to be controversial but I'm wondering about this part of the article.  I went back to re-read about Abilify. Mercola refers to Abilify as an 'antidepressant add-on.' Do we think he's calling it an antidepressant? Or a drug developed to treat schizophrenia That sounded to me like an anti-psychotic.

 

"The booming market of "booster" drugs or "antidepressant add-ons" like ABILIFY (originally developed to treat schizophrenia and mania23) is just another sign that antidepressants really don't work as advertised."

 

 

L

[apace41]

Thank you very much, Andy. I hope you are doing well.

 

Not to be controversial but I'm wondering about this part of the article.  I went back to re-read about Abilify. Mercola refers to Abilify as an 'antidepressant add-on.' Do we think he's calling it an antidepressant? Or a drug developed to treat schizophrenia That sounded to me like an anti-psychotic.

 

"The booming market of "booster" drugs or "antidepressant add-ons" like ABILIFY (originally developed to treat schizophrenia and mania23) is just another sign that antidepressants really don't work as advertised."

 

 

L

 

You are right.  I was skimming and I only read the later sentence as follows:

 

"It's really unfortunate that psychiatry has been so resistant to changing its treatment recommendations based on the scientific evidence, because if it did, antidepressants would no longer be among the top selling drugs in the U.S. (ABILIFY nabbed second place among the top 10 best-selling brand name drugs in 2015, with a total of 8.3 million total prescriptions written that year.²⁴)"

 

But you are correct.  He does clarify earlier in the article. 

 

Mea culpa!

 

Best,

 

Andy

[leahy]

That's okay, Andy. I find that I have a pattern of 'trusting' too much and not questioning enough. That's why I needed to clarify. It's a small detail but I'm glad Mercola was accurate. 

[leahy]

Maybe at a later date, Dr. Mercola will add anti anxiety meds and pain meds to the bunch. Fair is fair.

[apace41]

Maybe at a later date, Dr. Mercola will add anti anxiety meds and pain meds to the bunch. Fair is fair.

 

It's actually kind of interesting, Leahy, because at least benzos and opiates have real value when compared to placebo.  The problem with those meds is in how they are administered and monitored -- not in their efficacy.  With the SSRIs having been demonstrated to have no increased efficacy when compared to active placebo, I have trouble seeing that there is any good reason to ever prescribe them OTHER THAN to keep people like us out of withdrawal as we try to reduce.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[leahy]

Good point, Andy. Good point.

 

It's appalling to think we've been medicated for no purpose. I feel so violated. Walking around for 17 years taking meds for no reason. I am outraged.  It only caused us great harm.

 

Benzos do at least calm people and pain meds do alleviate pain.

 

And now I only take my AD to minimize withdrawal. I want the world to recognize how wrong this is. Why won't they listen?

 

NOT TO GET POLITICAL but I noticed this a few weeks ago. I noticed Donald Trump suggested that Hillary was responsible for Vincent Foster's death. As he talked about this I picked up on the mention of Mr. Foster being 'depressed' and committed suicide. Doesn't anybody else connect these dots? It happens ALL THE TIME. Pay attention people! It was the medication. There are BLACK BOX warnings on these medications. People in high places ought to be paying attention. Here's an excerpt.

 

 Trump called the circumstances of Vincent Foster’s death "very fishy."

"He had intimate knowledge of what was going on," Trump said of Foster’s relationship with the Clintons. "He knew everything that was going on and then all of a sudden he committed suicide." 

As a reminder, Vince Foster, a longtime friend of the Clintons, was deputy White House counsel in the first few months of Clinton’s presidency.  He was found dead from a gunshot wound to the mouth in July 1993. The three official investigations into Foster’s death concluded he committed suicide as he suffered from depression, however unproven theories have constantly swirled that the Clintons were involved in Foster’s death.