Edie: my story

[Edie]

I have actually another thing in my mind which makes me really paranoid. I've mentioned this before that I have a high heart rate and even if I take a walk my heart rate goes sometimes up to 150 BPM. My doctor prescribed me propanolol, but I'm don't really like the thought of taking another medication, especially cause I don't know if the heart rate issue is from WD or venlafaxine or a heart problem (I'm going to a cardiologist again to make some tests again). Last week they did a holter monitoring and there was one supraventicular extrasystole, but not anything unusual besides the fact that my heart rate went up whenever I was doing something physical. What do you think of this? I think I just need some feedback, cause I have health paranoia

[JanCarol]

Hey Edie - if it makes you feel better, go and have the cardio tests done.

 

I did.  And the technicians looked at me like I was "fat and unfit" when I stopped the treadmill.  Because my heart rhythm was normal, normal, normal, and they didn't understand why I couldn't get past that "uncomfortable" place at around 110 bpm.

 

I'm happy to report that I can now get up to 125 bpm or so without getting "uncomfortable."  I can drive through it a little bit.

 

If your heart rate goes up, rest.  Learn to "feel" your BP, it's how hard your heart is working.  I always take advantage of the free tests at the chemists - but my Blood Pressure has never been a problem, just the "uncomfortable" thing.

 

You asked me privately about adrenal fatigue, but I think it is too soon to consider that, or the supplements for that.  Withdrawal looks like a lot of things:  hypothyroid, adrenal crisis, etc.  The supplements are often too stimulating for someone in withdrawal.

 

Most people report that, after they've been off of the drugs for a few years, their numbers - even Hashimotos antibodies - return to normal.  Controlling your health through diet and exercise (which you do, your Crohn's has taught you to do - so we can't blame your Crohn's on the AD's, but I can't help but to wonder why so many cases of Crohn's?  Inflammation?) is the best thing you can do for your entire endocrine and digestive system - and often your mood, too!

 

Keep walking, just slow down when your heart rate goes up.  My walk around the neighborhood was often painfully slow, like an 85 year old woman when I'm only in my 50's!

 

This time last year you had a crash - I was wondering if it was an "Autumn Crash" - I used to get mood problems every autumn for a number of reasons.  Changing light (less light), and the startup of school (usually a new school for me, very stressful), as well as allergens (the falling leaves, dust & mold of September were always hard on me).  So I'm wondering if you have this pattern, too - or if it was, as moderators said at the time, purely a result of too much dose changing.

 

How is your breathing going?  

 

You said (a few months ago):

 

Yesterday my breathing difficulties got so bad I ended up in ER. The good thing is that my lungs are fine and this means the breathing problem has to be in my head..

 

Actually, it may be in your breathing.  See Pranayama - Yogic Breathing

 

The first part of the breath is not the inhale, it is the exhale.

 

Focus on the exhale, exhale all the way out, to make room for breathing.

 

Continue to focus on the exhale.  Try exhaling long and slow, and then try just letting go of everything on the exhale.  There are hundreds of breathing techniques, nearly all of which (except for hyperventilation techniques used by groups like Kriya Yoga and Buteyko) soothe the vagus nerve, calm the adrenals, improve the cortisol response, and switch off the fight-or-flight.

 

Another article which I learned a lot from is this one:

http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/08/cortical-adrenal-orchestra/496679/

 

Exercise which  strengthens the core muscles, combined with movement coordinated with breath - improves the sensory and motor cortex response, and improves communication between adrenals and cerebral cortex.

 

If I were to say one thing which helped me over these past few years, it has been incorporation of this in a number of techniques.  I use my breath with yoga (and strengthen my core), with tai chi (which also strengthens the core, improves posture), with weightlifting (again, including core work) and now karate, too.  Even my daily walks, at least once each walk I "zip up" my core to feel more supported, and I feel so much stronger because of it.

 

Lastly, you wrote:

 

I was wondering if anyone of you knows any tips for the swollen sinuses that come sometimes with AD's and withdrawal? I have had problems with my sinuses the whole summer.. I also feel as my throat is a little bit swollen.

 

I am a big fan of saline sprays for the sinuses.  Salt is a natural anti-inflammatory.  You can go as far as doing the "neti pot" thing, or you can just buy a saline nasal rinse from the chemist.

 

I hope you feel better soon.

[Edie]

Thank you very much for your feedback! 

 

Another thing that circles in my mind.. I read the thread about body temperature dysregulation and I have this problem that I get low grade fevers (they are back again). The question is should I take paracetamol or aspirin to take the WD fever down or should I just let it be? Can't decide on that one, cause we are not dealing with a flu or common cold here..

[Edie]

Today has been a very dark day. Angst and despair followed by rivers of tears. I know that maybe tomorrow will already be a little bit better, but I just needed to write this down. It is day 10 of 18 mg of venlafaxine (before I took 37,5). The depressive episode started yesterday with shivers followed by fever and extreme fatigue. Today I woke up like it was the end of the world. I think today I have thought of all the bad things that are in my life to the smallest details.  Loathing in self-pity and anger towards myself. I haven't been able to complete a single task which needed to be done today and now feel guilty and ashamed. This WD disablement makes me sometimes so angry and hopeless.

 

Just needed to ventilate.

 

Thank you.

[AmyK]

Well, my day looked exactly the same. Brain fog and catastrophic thoughts. Just laying on the couch. So I know what you mean. I find my self loathing in self pity and shame too. "How could I end up in this situation?" Etc etc.

 

We do the best we can do. And how could we know how bad antidepressants were for us? The shame lies actually else where.

 

Take care!

[Edie]

Today I've been mostly in bed, due to extreme weakness. Couldn't even hold my bowl of food in my hands. I quess Im in the "flu like" stage at the moment. Also the area where my crohn's disease ulcer was is aching.

 

Oh and JanCarol you asked me about my breathing: yeah, I still have issues with this. I sometimes also hear a sort of grumble when inhale.

[Edie]

just some interesting facts..

 

I just found out from my mail archives that my psychiatric drug journey actually started already in 2007. And it wasn't an antidepressant.. it was sodium valporate. My shrink thought that maybe I was bipolar (actually I was suffering from sevre panic attacks and anxiety) and then just in case put on these. I took them for 5 months and when he noticed that the meds didn't chagne anything he started to try other stuff and changed the diagnose. And ofcourse I had to CT and already the next day I was on a AD and clonazepam... what a circus...

[AliG]

So true, Edie. At least now you know the truth.

[Edie]

Hi AliG! 

 

Nice to see you here, I just read your thread and I must say it gave me quite a lot of hope! I feel like a complete mess at the moment, but your story just made me feel a little bit better.  Just to know that there are people out there who have lived through this hell and have their lives back.. such a relief

[Edie]

I would like to know what to you suggest. The thing is I feel really sick, I have hot flushes and can't really get out of bed.. also the fever again. I've been on 18mg for 15 days now. I just feel that I can't tolerate venlafaxine at all - I've have these supraventicular racing heart episodes again. Should I maybe taper just a little bit more? Don't know what to do here...

[nz11]

Hi Edie

Read your intro thread today and was hoping someone might comment before it went to the second page.

I am so so sorry you are now in this precarious position.

 

It looks to me that you went from 75mg venlafaxine to 18 mg on or about the 1 Oct 16. Was this the docs idea?

 

I am very concerned for you and the situation you now find yourself in.

[ChessieCat]

Today has been a very dark day. Angst and despair followed by rivers of tears. I know that maybe tomorrow will already be a little bit better, but I just needed to write this down. It is day 10 of 18 mg of venlafaxine (before I took 37,5). The depressive episode started yesterday with shivers followed by fever and extreme fatigue. Today I woke up like it was the end of the world. I think today I have thought of all the bad things that are in my life to the smallest details.  Loathing in self-pity and anger towards myself. I haven't been able to complete a single task which needed to be done today and now feel guilty and ashamed. This WD disablement makes me sometimes so angry and hopeless.

 

Just needed to ventilate.

 

Thank you.

 

Hi Edie,

 

Your post (quoted above) states you went from 37.5mg to 18mg.

 

Your signature says:  april 2016 - back on 75 mg venlafaxine, oct 2016 18 mg venlafaxine

 

Could you please let us know which one is correct?  If the post is correct, please update your signature to include the date and dose, or at least month, that you dropped to 37.5mg (I can't find the information in any of your posts).

 

If you have gone from 37.5mg to 18mg, you have made a decrease of just over 50%.  This is too fast.  If you have gone from 75mg to 18mg that is a 75% decrease.  This is much too fast.

 

What you are experiencing now sounds very much like withdrawal symptoms brought on by too big a cut.  See:  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist.  I'm going to ask the other mods for their thoughts about updosing and by what amount you might take.

 

We need an answer to this question:  did you go from 75mg to 18mg, OR 37.5mg to 18mg.  This information will help us to suggest a dose.  Thank you.

[Edie]

Thank you for helping me!

 

Tapering history:

 

30.dec 2015 CT from prozac

 

13.january 2016 5 mg venlafaxine

 

13.january - 5. february gradually increasing until 37.5 mg

 

holding on 37, 5 until the end of april - having fever, depression, anxiety, problems with breathing ect. all the time

end of april - starting to gradually increase until 75 mg 

 

25. july -23. august tapering from 75 mg to 37,5 mg due to being totally sick (main reason extreme weakness and heart rate up to 170 bpm) all the time on 75 mg (also extremely agitated and depressive)

 

23.august - 1.oct tapeing from 37,5 to 18 mg

 

1.oct - 16. oct 18mg

[ChessieCat]

Thank you for clarifying your tapering history.  That is very helpful.

 

How often are you taking Klonopin?

 

Do you drink alcohol at all?

[Edie]

Hi!

 

I take 0,5 mg clonazepam in the morning and 0,5 mg in the evening.

 

I occasionally drink a glass of red wine, but nothing more.

[Edie]

I kept a symptom diary from the end of dec- february and it seems that my symptoms did not get better at all with the venlafaxine reinstatement. On the contrary - the breathing difficulties and different kind of aches got worse. Also my anxiety and agitation got worse.

[Altostrata]

Edie, have you been keeping daily notes for the last 3 months?

 

If so, what is your daily symptom pattern, when you take your drugs, and their dosages?

 

What do you mean by breathing difficulties? Is this worse at any time of day?

 

What are your other symptoms right now? Did they get worse when you made the cut of 37.5mg to 18 mg in August?

[Edie]

Hi Alto!

 

I don't have notes for every day, but I do know what has changed. The heart rate issue is now better with the lower dose, I don't get that much of these episodes every day. In the summer I used to get them many times daily. Ok I'll make a list.

 

positive effects of the lower dose:

 

* fewer racing heart episodes

* a little bit more energy(in the summer I was extremely fatigued)

* not so much nausea

*no more diarrhea

*not so agitated

* not so many hot flushes and fevers (in the summer I had them every single day along with racing heart)

 

negative symptoms at the moment:

 

* breathing difficulties - shortness of breath, feeling that I can't get enough oxygen

* back, joint, neck and chest pain

*depressive episodes that just hit out of nowhere and without any warning

* still fatigued

*occasional panic attacks

* pressure in the head

 

In the morning: 

* really hard to get out of bed

* anxiety right after waking

*no motivation to start the day

 

afternoon:

* always tired, but usually the most active part of my day

 

evening:

* I take venlafaxine usually at 6 pm, if I take it later I become depressed and anxious

*after taking it my heart rate increases always  and usually I also have hot flushes and shortness of breath/discomfort in chest/heart area

*after taking it craving for wine

[Edie]

I forgot about clonazepam:

 

in the morning I take 0,5 mg around 11 am

in the evening I take 0,5 mg around 11 pm

 

I feel definetly better after an hour or so after taking clonazepam and this "better" lasts for a few hours. I usually get to sleep around 1-2 am and I wake around 10 am. Sometimes I have to take naps during the day. Specially during PMS - this is the worst part of the month, I'm completely sick for 3 days - sleep all day, low grade fever, depression, even suicidal thoughts and in general "end of the world - I'm going to die" feeling

[Altostrata]

Edie, it seems that you have been having adverse effects of too much venlafaxine, which have lessened with the lower dose.

 

Have any symptoms gotten worse since you lowered the dose?

 

The breathing problems might be the clonazepam.

 

Did you do this before? Put ALL the drugs you take in the Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html
and copy and paste the results in this topic.
 

[Edie]

The thing is that I got extreme breathing problems (feeling like really choking - was with this a few times in ER even) in december when I was in prozac WD and did not take clonazepam at all (at that time I had not been taking clonazepam for almost a year).

[Altostrata]

Maybe it is from withdrawal. Can you do breathing exercises?

[Edie]

Yes, I am doing them actually. 

 

About the breathing thing.. I remeber that I had this also when I was on escitalopram. I was singing in a band and I had problems with that due to not getting enough oxygen.

 

I feel the breathing problems mostly in the morning and in the evening.. before I take my clonazepam. Maybe it is like a small clonazepam WD or something like that? A few months ago I used to take less clonazepam, so maybe it is from the increase in dosage? Maybe I should start to taper clonazepam also?

[Edie]

Interactions between your selected drugs

Moderate magnesium citrate  cholecalciferol

Applies to: magnesium citrate, Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol)

Ask your doctor before using cholecalciferol together with magnesium citrate. If you are undergoing chronic kidney dialysis treated with cholecalciferol you should avoid magnesium citrate. Using these medications together can cause high magnesium levels, particularly in chronic kidney dialysis. This can cause nausea, vomiting, flushing, low blood pressure, a slow heartbeat, drowsiness, coma, and death. High magnesium levels may also play a role in the development of bone disease in dialysis patients. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate clonazepam  venlafaxine

Applies to: clonazepam, venlafaxine

Using clonazePAM together with venlafaxine may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate magnesium citrate  venlafaxine

Applies to: magnesium citrate, venlafaxine

Venlafaxine can cause an irregular heart rhythm that may be serious and potentially life-threatening, although it is a relatively rare side effect. The risk is increased if you have low blood levels of magnesium or potassium, which can occur with bowel cleansing preparations or excessive use of medications that have a laxative effect. Do not exceed the dose and duration of use of magnesium citrate recommended on the product label or prescribed by your doctor. You should seek immediate medical attention if you develop sudden dizziness, lightheadedness, fainting, shortness of breath, or heart palpitations during treatment with these medications. In addition, you should let your doctor know if you experience signs and symptoms of low magnesium or potassium blood level such as weakness, tiredness, drowsiness, dizziness, confusion, tingling, numbness, muscle pain, cramps, nausea, or vomiting. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate cholecalciferol  magnesium gluconate

Applies to: Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol), magnesium gluconate

Ask your doctor before using cholecalciferol together with magnesium gluconate. If you are undergoing chronic kidney dialysis treated with cholecalciferol you should avoid magnesium gluconate. Using these medications together can cause high magnesium levels, particularly in chronic kidney dialysis. This can cause nausea, vomiting, flushing, low blood pressure, a slow heartbeat, drowsiness, coma, and death. High magnesium levels may also play a role in the development of bone disease in dialysis patients. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

[Edie]

Maybe I should just stop the magnesium? I have low vitamin D  levels so I definetly must take it. Maybe if I use a magnesium oil spray instead it would not interact that much?

 

I'm really confused now what to do.. on one hand vit D and magnesium can interact on the other hand if magnesium levels are low and I'm taking venlafaxine it can also be very dangerous (I'm scared because I have many heart related symptoms and shortness of breath).

[Edie]

Oh and as I took a look at my notes early this year I noticed this.. I did not have breathing problems for some weeks between  prozac CT and starting venlafaxine. When I started venlafaxine I also went up with clonazepam (from 0,5 mg to 1 mg). And then I got these episodes every evening when I had extreme weakness and shortness of breath with a grumble when inhaling.

[bubble]

I didn't read through your posts but just look at your signature.

 

It seems that breathing problems are your standard WD symptom.

 

Sometimes not doing anything (holding the doses and using different copìng skills to manage symptoms) is the best thing to do. It's always the most difficult one.

[Edie]

God, i feel really sick today. Vertigo, nausea, earpain (?), backpain, swollen sinuses, derealization my old friend is back also..

[Edie]

okay it seems that drinking wine has become a little problem here. I've been doing it the past two weeks every evening. I don't know why, but I just have SUCH A BIG craving for it every evening. 

[scallywag]

Sometimes alcohol craving can be about self-medicating, seeking a dopamine or beta-endorphin release. Can you identify other activities that would feel good? For a different issue than wanting to drink win, I sometimes find that gently caressing my arm or leg is soothing. When I want a boost I go for a walk or do some deep breathing.

[Edie]

Yes it definelty is about self- medicating, cause I feel so agitated and depressed that it seems to be the only way to feel a little bit more relaxed for a while. When I have days like today, all day in bed - daytime nightmares, panic attacks, paranoid thinking, hot flushes, nausea, heart palpilationst - then a walk doesn't do anything at all. At least nothing positive - I even usually get more anxiety when I go out and have to deal with all the traffic and people (I live downtown). 

[Edie]

Okay I really need some advice what to do now with the venlafaxine dosage. The last days have been horrendous - no apettite, nausea, extreme fatigue (sleeping 12 hours - also naps during the day), stomach cramps, akathisia, depression. The thing is that on friday and saturday I'm going to have school from 10 am -18pm (I'm going to study nutrinitional therapy) and I just can't imagine how could I make through these days. I just have to feel a little bit better somehow. 

 

I think that the 50% taper was way too big.

[Altostrata]

Edie, you've made so many drug changes, it's hard to say where these symptoms are coming from.

 

Since it seems you had adverse reactions to venlafaxine, I would be hesitant to take more of it.

 

I don't think the magnesium is a problem. What times of day do you take it?

 

You may want to gradually add taurine to manage heart rate.

 

Thank you very much for your feedback! 

 

Another thing that circles in my mind.. I read the thread about body temperature dysregulation and I have this problem that I get low grade fevers (they are back again). The question is should I take paracetamol or aspirin to take the WD fever down or should I just let it be? Can't decide on that one, cause we are not dealing with a flu or common cold here..

 

What do you mean by low-grade fevers? How do you measure them?

 

Oh and as I took a look at my notes early this year I noticed this.. I did not have breathing problems for some weeks between  prozac CT and starting venlafaxine. When I started venlafaxine I also went up with clonazepam (from 0,5 mg to 1 mg). And then I got these episodes every evening when I had extreme weakness and shortness of breath with a grumble when inhaling.

 

My guess is the breathing problems are due to clonazepam. As they happen every evening, that's a clue they're related to something else you do on a schedule. Please discuss in the Benzo forum.

[Edie]

Edie, you've made so many drug changes, it's hard to say where these symptoms are coming from.

 

Since it seems you had adverse reactions to venlafaxine, I would be hesitant to take more of it.

 

I don't think the magnesium is a problem. What times of day do you take it?

 

You may want to gradually add taurine to manage heart rate.

 

Thank you very much for your feedback! 

 

Another thing that circles in my mind.. I read the thread about body temperature dysregulation and I have this problem that I get low grade fevers (they are back again). The question is should I take paracetamol or aspirin to take the WD fever down or should I just let it be? Can't decide on that one, cause we are not dealing with a flu or common cold here..

 

What do you mean by low-grade fevers? How do you measure them?

 

Oh and as I took a look at my notes early this year I noticed this.. I did not have breathing problems for some weeks between  prozac CT and starting venlafaxine. When I started venlafaxine I also went up with clonazepam (from 0,5 mg to 1 mg). And then I got these episodes every evening when I had extreme weakness and shortness of breath with a grumble when inhaling.

 

My guess is the breathing problems are due to clonazepam. As they happen every evening, that's a clue they're related to something else you do on a schedule. Please discuss in the Benzo forum.

 

Hi! Thank you for your feedback.

 

I take magnesium usually in the evenings to help with sleep. I take my vit D in the morning. I also have taurine capsules, how much should I take it? 

 

I measure my body temperature with a centigrade thermometer and I have these 37.1-37.6 C fevers sometimes. They started in december when I tried to reinstate prozac.

[Edie]

I feel overdrugged. I don't know what to do - should I hold the 18 mg (have hold it for 20 days) or taper just a few beads maybe? I feel very sick, dizzy, derealization, nausea, extreme fatigue...

[scallywag]

Removing a few beads from your current dose is likely to cause more problems. Your symptoms of nausea, dizziness, fatigue and DR are almost certainly the result of the large dose decrease you made in late September from 37.5 mg to 18 mg.

...
It is day 10 of 18 mg of venlafaxine (before I took 37,5).
...

You would do better either

• to increase dose a bit
  --- or ---
• to hold at 18 mg.