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I am 'wondering' (my username) how to slowly taper from Wellbutrin 300xl


Wondering

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This is my second post on this forum. I originally was reading posts on tapering off Klonopin, then read a lot about how you should taper off ADs before benzos so far I have gone from 3mg Klonopin to 1 mg) will be staying there and possibly up dosing for a few weeks. Now that I know I should taper Wellbutrinxl 300 first I am trying to find out what a slow taper would be for doing that? Can anyone help me? Thank you. Wondering

Trazodone 150-300 nightly

Ambien CR. 3-5 times a week

Taking Klonopin crossing over to Valium started 6-25-15

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi  Wondering , welcome.

 

You haven't done anything wrong by tapering the Klonopin first , and congratulations on your progress so far.

Try reading the thread in the Tapering section "Why Taper by 10%".   Also one on "Micro-tapering".

 

Good to have you on board ,  Fresh

1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg

2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg

Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta

Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months.

July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months.

Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg.

October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive.

March 2016 , 21mg

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  • Administrator

Welcome, Wondering.
 
Thank you for reading Tips for tapering off Wellbutrin, IR, SR, XR, XL (bupropr...
 

There are many ways to go off 300mg Wellbutrin XR. Remember that if you cut up a Wellbutrin XL or XR tablet, you get immediate-release buproprion. You probably will not want to do that right off. If your system is used to the extended-release version, it may not react well to the "dumping" of immediate-release.
 
Probably the easiest way to go off 300mg Wellbutrin XL is to get your prescription filled with 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablets and 75mg Wellbutrin IR (immediate-release) tablets. (The prescription would be written for "one 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablet and two 75mg Wellbutrin IR tablets per day, taken in divided doses, for a total of 300mg per day.")
 
By cutting the 75mg IR tablets in quarters, you can taper by a smaller amount than 10%, approximately 18.75mg (splitting tablets is not as precise as using a liquid). for the first part of the taper, you can remove one-quarter of a 75mg tablet at each step.

 

As you are tapering by less than 10%, you may be able to go faster than monthly decreases. The minimum tapering interval we recommend is every 2 weeks.

 

For example, to taper from 300mg Wellbutrin XL:

 

Reduction 1: 281.25mg per day -- a 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablet in the morning, a 75mg Wellbutrin IR tablet in the afternoon, and 3/4 of the second Wellbutrin IR tablet in the evening.

 

Reduction 2: 262.5mg per day -- a 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablet in the morning, a 75mg Wellbutrin IR tablet in the afternoon, and 2/4 of the second Wellbutrin IR tablet in the evening.

 

Reduction 3: 243.75mg per day -- a 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablet in the morning, a 75mg Wellbutrin IR tablet in the afternoon, and 1/4 of the second Wellbutrin IR tablet in the evening.

 

As you're down to 1/4 of a tablet in the evening, you may wish to take the next quarter out of the first 75mg tablet to balance your daily dose.

 

Reduction 4: 225mg per day -- a 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablet in the morning, 3/4 of 75mg Wellbutrin IR tablet in the afternoon, and 1/4 of the second Wellbutrin IR tablet in the evening.

 

Reduction 5: 206.25mg per day -- a 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablet in the morning, 2/4 of 75mg Wellbutrin IR tablet in the afternoon, and 1/4 of the second Wellbutrin IR tablet in the evening.

 

Reduction 6: 187.5mg per day -- a 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablet in the morning, 1/4 of 75mg Wellbutrin IR tablet in the afternoon, and 1/4 of the second Wellbutrin IR tablet in the evening.

 

Reduction 7: 168.75mg per day -- a 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablet in the morning, 1/4 of 75mg Wellbutrin IR tablet in the late afternoon.

 

Reduction 8: 150mg per day -- a 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablet in the morning.

 

After you are down to 150mg per day, you may wish to make your next decrease by getting your prescription filled with 100 mg Wellbutrin SR (sustained-release) tablets and 100mg Wellbutrin IR (immediate-release) tablets. (The prescription would be written for "one 100mg Wellbutrin SR tablet in the a.m. and one 100mg Wellbutrin IR tablet in the p.m., for a total of 200mg per day.")

 

Then you would make a liquid from the 100mg Wellbutrin IR tablet to make further reductions of 10% (based on current dosage; the amount of the decrease gets smaller and smaller) until you are down to one 100mg Wellbutrin SR per day.

 

After you are down to 100mg per day, you may wish to make your next decrease by getting your prescription filled with 100mg Wellbutrin IR (immediate-release) tablets (or use the ones you have left) and make a liquid from them to continue tapering at 10%.

 

To make a liquid from immediate-release buproprion:

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Hi Fresh, thanks for directing me to those threads and thanks also for the welcome. Wondering

 

 

quote name="Fresh" post="146561" timestamp="1429059287"]Hi  Wondering , welcome.

 

You haven't done anything wrong by tapering the Klonopin first , and congratulations on your progress so far.

Try reading the thread in the Tapering section "Why Taper by 10%".   Also one on "Micro-tapering".

 

Good to have you on board ,  Fresh

Trazodone 150-300 nightly

Ambien CR. 3-5 times a week

Taking Klonopin crossing over to Valium started 6-25-15

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Wow, thanks Altostrata so much for such specific instructions. So reassuring, I think I can do it. I so appreciate your helping me. Wondering

 

Welcome, Wondering.
 
Thank you for reading Tips for tapering off Wellbutrin, IR, SR, XR, XL (bupropr...
 
There are many ways to go off 300mg Wellbutrin XR. Remember that if you cut up a Wellbutrin XL or XR tablet, you get immediate-release buproprion. You probably will not want to do that right off. If your system is used to the extended-release version, it may not react well to the "dumping" of immediate-release.
 
Probably the easiest way to go off 300mg Wellbutrin XL is to get your prescription filled with 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablets and 75mg Wellbutrin IR (immediate-release) tablets. (The prescription would be written for "one 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablet and two 75mg Wellbutrin IR tablets per day, taken in divided doses, for a total of 300mg per day.")
 
By cutting the 75mg IR tablets in quarters, you can taper by a smaller amount than 10%, approximately 18.75mg (splitting tablets is not as precise as using a liquid). for the first part of the taper, you can remove one-quarter of a 75mg tablet at each step.
 
As you are tapering by less than 10%, you may be able to go faster than monthly decreases. The minimum tapering interval we recommend is every 2 weeks.
 
For example, to taper from 300mg Wellbutrin XL:
 
Reduction 1: 281.25mg per day -- a 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablet in the morning, a 75mg Wellbutrin IR tablet in the afternoon, and 3/4 of the second Wellbutrin IR tablet in the evening.
 
Reduction 2: 262.5mg per day -- a 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablet in the morning, a 75mg Wellbutrin IR tablet in the afternoon, and 2/4 of the second Wellbutrin IR tablet in the evening.
 
Reduction 3: 243.75mg per day -- a 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablet in the morning, a 75mg Wellbutrin IR tablet in the afternoon, and 1/4 of the second Wellbutrin IR tablet in the evening.
 
As you're down to 1/4 of a tablet in the evening, you may wish to take the next quarter out of the first 75mg tablet to balance your daily dose.
 
Reduction 4: 225mg per day -- a 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablet in the morning, 3/4 of 75mg Wellbutrin IR tablet in the afternoon, and 1/4 of the second Wellbutrin IR tablet in the evening.
 
Reduction 5: 206.25mg per day -- a 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablet in the morning, 2/4 of 75mg Wellbutrin IR tablet in the afternoon, and 1/4 of the second Wellbutrin IR tablet in the evening.
 
Reduction 6: 187.5mg per day -- a 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablet in the morning, 1/4 of 75mg Wellbutrin IR tablet in the afternoon, and 1/4 of the second Wellbutrin IR tablet in the evening.
 
Reduction 7: 168.75mg per day -- a 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablet in the morning, 1/4 of 75mg Wellbutrin IR tablet in the late afternoon.
 
Reduction 8: 150mg per day -- a 150mg Wellbutrin XL tablet in the morning.
 
After you are down to 150mg per day, you may wish to make your next decrease by getting your prescription filled with 100 mg Wellbutrin SR (sustained-release) tablets and 100mg Wellbutrin IR (immediate-release) tablets. (The prescription would be written for "one 100mg Wellbutrin SR tablet in the a.m. and one 100mg Wellbutrin IR tablet in the p.m., for a total of 200mg per day.")
 
Then you would make a liquid from the 100mg Wellbutrin IR tablet to make further reductions of 10% (based on current dosage; the amount of the decrease gets smaller and smaller) until you are down to one 100mg Wellbutrin SR per day.
 
After you are down to 100mg per day, you may wish to make your next decrease by getting your prescription filled with 100mg Wellbutrin IR (immediate-release) tablets (or use the ones you have left) and make a liquid from them to continue tapering at 10%.
 
To make a liquid from immediate-release buproprion:

Trazodone 150-300 nightly

Ambien CR. 3-5 times a week

Taking Klonopin crossing over to Valium started 6-25-15

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am going to updose to 2mg Klonopin and hold for six months. If I decided to stay at 2mg would my body by then just think that I was on 2mg and not know that I had been tapering, then I think I would never get any withdrawals which I am unreasonably frightened of. Or would my brain be expecting the tapering is still in progress and expect me to continue?

I was on 3mg when I started my taper in late January. My original intent was to finish the Klonopin taper and then taper off Wellbutrin and Ambien. Now I found out that doing that 'could' take years and I am old and don't want to spend my last years withdrawing from drugs. I already spent 10 years in bed with Agorophobia. So there is a battle going on in my mind. The reason I had decided to go off Klonopin and Ambien is because of their links to Alzheimers and I am afraid of that because my mother died from it. So, if anyone could let me know what my brain thinks after a 6 month hold of 2mg, I would be very appreciative. Thank you. Wondering

Trazodone 150-300 nightly

Ambien CR. 3-5 times a week

Taking Klonopin crossing over to Valium started 6-25-15

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  • Administrator

We cannot predict what your brain will think in 6 months, or how an updose will work for you.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Well that was short. Have you any empathy for the battle going on in my mind? You already know how frightened I am. I sure hope I hear from someone, so many times once you answer somebody nobody else responds. Really Wondering

 

 

 

We cannot predict what your brain will think in 6 months, or how an updose will work for you.

Trazodone 150-300 nightly

Ambien CR. 3-5 times a week

Taking Klonopin crossing over to Valium started 6-25-15

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  • Administrator

Sounds like you want someone else to respond to your topic.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Would have liked some response, but as I predicted, once you answer, that's it for the thread. You are very smart when it comes to these things, my question can be answered (lots of people out there have experienced it). Sure, everyone is different and no one can predict. This is a forum where people share their experiences. You had nothing to share so I don't why you would respond with a curt, obvious message. Still Wondering

 

 

 

Sounds like you want someone else to respond to your topic.

Trazodone 150-300 nightly

Ambien CR. 3-5 times a week

Taking Klonopin crossing over to Valium started 6-25-15

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  • Administrator

We are all our own worst enemies, Wondering, and you are no exception. I hope you can understand that when you have a question, I will leave it to someone else to answer.

 

Also, please look at What will get you warned or banned The staff on this site, including me, is all volunteer, donating our time. If you cannot be polite to us, perhaps you should go elsewhere for the support you seek.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Oh sure I get it that you won't be helping me. Thanks for the heads-up.



uote name="Altostrata" post="149696" timestamp="1430081606"]We are all our own worst enemies, Wondering, and you are no exception. I hope you can understand that when you have a question, I will leave it to someone else to answer.
 
Also, please look at What will get you warned or banned The staff on this site, including me, is all volunteer, donating our time. If you cannot be polite to us, perhaps you should go elsewhere for the support you seek.

Trazodone 150-300 nightly

Ambien CR. 3-5 times a week

Taking Klonopin crossing over to Valium started 6-25-15

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Wondering,

I put all the drugs you are currently taking into the interactions checker, hoping to find some more clues about what may be going on. Based on the report which came up, if I were you, I would be thinking about tapering the the wellbutrin first, mainly to lower the risk of seizures associated with the interactions between it and the other drugs you are taking. But also because wellbutrin can be very activating, I'm wondering, did you start having problems with sleep after you started taking the wellbutrin? Trouble sleeping and irritability are common side effects:

 

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/wellbutrin-side-effects.html

 

It would be helpful if you added the dates you started taking each medication to your signature.

 

The symptoms "difficulty concentrating.... impairment in thinking and judgment" are listed several times as possible effects of interactions between several of your drugs, I'm wondering if perhaps this may be contributing to your difficulties with navigating and participating on this site.

 

 

http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2228-0,2333-1544,703-357,440-2469

 

Interactions between your selected drugs
interaction-3-big.png bupropion ↔ trazodone

Applies to: Wellbutrin XL (bupropion), trazodone

Talk to your doctor before using buPROPion together with traZODone. Combining these medications may increase the risk of seizures, which may occur rarely with either medication. In addition, buPROPion can increase the blood levels of traZODone, which may increase other side effects. You may be more likely to experience seizures with these medications if you are elderly, undergoing alcohol or drug withdrawal, have a history of seizures, or have a condition affecting the central nervous system such as a brain tumor or head trauma. Your doctor may be able to prescribe alternatives that do not interact, or you may need a dose adjustment or more frequent monitoring by your doctor to safely use both medications. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol during treatment. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

interaction-2-big.png bupropion ↔ clonazepam

Applies to: Wellbutrin XL (bupropion), Klonopin (clonazepam)

Excessive use of clonazePAM, or abrupt discontinuation following long-term use, may occasionally trigger seizures in patients taking buPROPion. Talk to your doctor before using these medications together if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

interaction-2-big.png clonazepam ↔ trazodone

Applies to: Klonopin (clonazepam), trazodone

Using clonazePAM together with traZODone may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

interaction-2-big.png bupropion ↔ zolpidem

Applies to: Wellbutrin XL (bupropion), Ambien (zolpidem)

Excessive use of zolpidem, or abrupt discontinuation following long-term use, may occasionally trigger seizures in patients taking buPROPion. Talk to your doctor before using these medications together if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

interaction-2-big.png clonazepam ↔ zolpidem

Applies to: Klonopin (clonazepam), Ambien (zolpidem)

Using clonazePAM together with zolpidem may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

interaction-2-big.png trazodone ↔ zolpidem

Applies to: trazodone, Ambien (zolpidem)

Using traZODone together with zolpidem may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

 

Interactions between your selected drugs and food
interaction-2-big.png bupropion ↔ food

Applies to: Wellbutrin XL (bupropion)

Using buPROPion with alcohol may increase the risk of uncommon side effects such as seizures, hallucinations, delusions, paranoia, mood and behavioral changes, depression, suicidal thoughts, anxiety, and panic attacks. On the other hand, sudden withdrawal from alcohol following regular or chronic use can also increase your risk of seizures during treatment with buPROPion. If you are prone to frequent or excessive alcohol use, talk to your doctor before starting buPROPion. In general, you should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with buPROPion. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medication affects you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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Hi petunia, thanks for writing. I had planned to taper off the Wellbutrin first, but read so much about Klonopin causing severe depression and memory problems that I thought I better do that one instead. I didn't have trouble with sleeping, but I do take AmbienCR and Trazodone. I was very irritable for the first few weeks and then ok, same thing happened a few years ago when I took it.

 

Thanks for checking my drug interactions, sure does seem possible that those interactions could be causing the problems I am experiencing on this forum and off. I feel like a stranger in a strange land (good book) and am beyond frustrated with others and myself.

 

Knowing that every one is different, may I have your opinion on this. I was tapering off Klonopin, but did it too fast (doctor's plan), now I am updosing to 2mg and holding for six months. Should my body and brain think that 2mg is what I take now (same as when your doc lowers your dose on something). If so, then couldn't I start on tapering Wellbutrin at that time? Alto gave me great step by step for tapering Wellbutrin. After that I could go back to tapering Klonopin. I have asked this question before, but wasn't understood. I'tried to do a better job of explaining my question this time. If you don't understand what I am trying to ask, could you ask me some questions and maybe I can be more clear. I did change my signature, but I can't find the calendars where I have the dates of the other drugs. I added Norco, in case it matters.

I always thought that Wellbutrin was pretty benign, reading the interactions was quite a wake up call. Thank you again. Wondering

 

I put all the drugs you are currently taking into the interactions checker, hoping to find some more clues about what may be going on. Based on the report which came up, if I were you, I would be thinking about tapering the the wellbutrin first, mainly to lower the risk of seizures associated with the interactions between it and the other drugs you are taking. But also because wellbutrin can be very activating, I'm wondering, did you start having problems with sleep after you started taking the wellbutrin? Trouble sleeping and irritability are common side effects:

 

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/wellbutrin-side-effects.html

 

It would be helpful if you added the dates you started taking each medication to your signature.

 

The symptoms "difficulty concentrating.... impairment in thinking and judgment" are listed several times as possible effects of interactions between several of your drugs, I'm wondering if perhaps this may be contributing to your difficulties with navigating and participating on this site.

 

 

http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2228-0,2333-1544,703-357,440-2469

 

 

Interactions between your selected drugs

interaction-3-big.png

bupropion ↔ trazodone

Applies to: Wellbutrin XL (bupropion), trazodone

 

Talk to your doctor before using buPROPion together with traZODone. Combining these medications may increase the risk of seizures, which may occur rarely with either medication. In addition, buPROPion can increase the blood levels of traZODone, which may increase other side effects. You may be more likely to experience seizures with these medications if you are elderly, undergoing alcohol or drug withdrawal, have a history of seizures, or have a condition affecting the central nervous system such as a brain tumor or head trauma. Your doctor may be able to prescribe alternatives that do not interact, or you may need a dose adjustment or more frequent monitoring by your doctor to safely use both medications. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol during treatment. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

=major&types[]=minor&types[]=moderate&types[]=food&professional=1]Switch to professional interaction data

interaction-2-big.png

bupropion ↔ clonazepam

Applies to: Wellbutrin XL (bupropion), Klonopin (clonazepam)

 

Excessive use of clonazePAM, or abrupt discontinuation following long-term use, may occasionally trigger seizures in patients taking buPROPion. Talk to your doctor before using these medications together if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

=major&types[]=minor&types[]=moderate&types[]=food&professional=1]Switch to professional interaction data

interaction-2-big.png

clonazepam ↔ trazodone

Applies to: Klonopin (clonazepam), trazodone

 

Using clonazePAM together with traZODone may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

=major&types[]=minor&types[]=moderate&types[]=food&professional=1]Switch to professional interaction data

interaction-2-big.png

bupropion ↔ zolpidem

Applies to: Wellbutrin XL (bupropion), Ambien (zolpidem)

 

Excessive use of zolpidem, or abrupt discontinuation following long-term use, may occasionally trigger seizures in patients taking buPROPion. Talk to your doctor before using these medications together if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

=major&types[]=minor&types[]=moderate&types[]=food&professional=1]Switch to professional interaction data

interaction-2-big.png

clonazepam ↔ zolpidem

Applies to: Klonopin (clonazepam), Ambien (zolpidem)

 

Using clonazePAM together with zolpidem may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

=major&types[]=minor&types[]=moderate&types[]=food&professional=1]Switch to professional interaction data

interaction-2-big.png

trazodone ↔ zolpidem

Applies to: trazodone, Ambien (zolpidem)

 

Using traZODone together with zolpidem may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

 

 

Interactions between your selected drugs and food

interaction-2-big.png

bupropion ↔ food

Applies to: Wellbutrin XL (bupropion)

 

Using buPROPion with alcohol may increase the risk of uncommon side effects such as seizures, hallucinations, delusions, paranoia, mood and behavioral changes, depression, suicidal thoughts, anxiety, and panic attacks. On the other hand, sudden withdrawal from alcohol following regular or chronic use can also increase your risk of seizures during treatment with buPROPion. If you are prone to frequent or excessive alcohol use, talk to your doctor before starting buPROPion. In general, you should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with buPROPion. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medication affects you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Trazodone 150-300 nightly

Ambien CR. 3-5 times a week

Taking Klonopin crossing over to Valium started 6-25-15

Link to comment

Wondering, I know you're scared. We're all scared. Try to think about which drug, when you take it, makes you feel the most adverse symptoms. Start with that one.

 

Wellbutrin is very activating, like speed.

 

From the drug interactions in red, I'd get rid of one of those first.

January 2012 - Prescribed 900mg gabapentin and 30mg Norco for lower lumber spinal stenosis pain.

September 2013 - Spinal fusion surgery, 6 levels. Hospital ramped up meds 1500mg gabapentin, 100mg Norco, 80mg Oxycontin, 25mg Fentanyl patch.

January 2014 - Sever nausea daily and with back pain every 4 hours. 2 trips to ER. First endoscopy found ulcer. Treated with Sucralfate and PPI. Second endo in May found no ulcers. Doctors said it was the opiates causing the nausea. CT'd Oxycontin, Fentanyl patch.

July 2014 - Lost 48 lbs. due to not eating because of severe nausea. GP prescribed Prozac 20mg and Ativan 2mg prn. Tried for 4 days, quit. Two week followup GP said keep taking Prozac. 4 days, quit again. Ativan taken rarely prn for anxiety and appetite.

August 2014 - Went to detox. Off opiates. Still nauseous, helmet head, drugged feeling. Doctor CT'd gabapentin. Ended up in ER. Found 2 gallstones. Gabapentin reinstated at 900mg. Tried botched up and down taper to get off Gabapentin. No tapering advice from doctor. Said to just CT again.

September 2014 - Coded on table during gallbladder surgery. Developed liver biloma due to CPR by doctor. Had bile bulb inserted for 2 wks to drain.

October 2014 - Gallbladder removed. Still nauseous, 3am cortisol surging, drugged helmet head, vertigo, breathlessness, whooshing head, heart palps.

November 8th, 2014 - CT'd gabapentin suggested by family and 4 different doctors. Was told no withdrawal is associated with gabapentin. Have been in hell ever since. No windows, just one big tsunami every day with same symptoms for 4 months.

December 26, 2014 - Found SA. At least I know I'm not insane. My family thinks I'm doing this to myself. Akathesia has become unbearable.

March 10, 2015 - In absolute daily hell with no relief. Currently taking magnesium 200mg before bedtime.

Link to comment

I'm CT. Never tapered. One drug has caused me to be in this hell. So I'm not the most knowledgeable person regarding tapering or peeling off several drugs. Rhiannon is good at this.

January 2012 - Prescribed 900mg gabapentin and 30mg Norco for lower lumber spinal stenosis pain.

September 2013 - Spinal fusion surgery, 6 levels. Hospital ramped up meds 1500mg gabapentin, 100mg Norco, 80mg Oxycontin, 25mg Fentanyl patch.

January 2014 - Sever nausea daily and with back pain every 4 hours. 2 trips to ER. First endoscopy found ulcer. Treated with Sucralfate and PPI. Second endo in May found no ulcers. Doctors said it was the opiates causing the nausea. CT'd Oxycontin, Fentanyl patch.

July 2014 - Lost 48 lbs. due to not eating because of severe nausea. GP prescribed Prozac 20mg and Ativan 2mg prn. Tried for 4 days, quit. Two week followup GP said keep taking Prozac. 4 days, quit again. Ativan taken rarely prn for anxiety and appetite.

August 2014 - Went to detox. Off opiates. Still nauseous, helmet head, drugged feeling. Doctor CT'd gabapentin. Ended up in ER. Found 2 gallstones. Gabapentin reinstated at 900mg. Tried botched up and down taper to get off Gabapentin. No tapering advice from doctor. Said to just CT again.

September 2014 - Coded on table during gallbladder surgery. Developed liver biloma due to CPR by doctor. Had bile bulb inserted for 2 wks to drain.

October 2014 - Gallbladder removed. Still nauseous, 3am cortisol surging, drugged helmet head, vertigo, breathlessness, whooshing head, heart palps.

November 8th, 2014 - CT'd gabapentin suggested by family and 4 different doctors. Was told no withdrawal is associated with gabapentin. Have been in hell ever since. No windows, just one big tsunami every day with same symptoms for 4 months.

December 26, 2014 - Found SA. At least I know I'm not insane. My family thinks I'm doing this to myself. Akathesia has become unbearable.

March 10, 2015 - In absolute daily hell with no relief. Currently taking magnesium 200mg before bedtime.

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My heart and prayers go out to you.

January 2012 - Prescribed 900mg gabapentin and 30mg Norco for lower lumber spinal stenosis pain.

September 2013 - Spinal fusion surgery, 6 levels. Hospital ramped up meds 1500mg gabapentin, 100mg Norco, 80mg Oxycontin, 25mg Fentanyl patch.

January 2014 - Sever nausea daily and with back pain every 4 hours. 2 trips to ER. First endoscopy found ulcer. Treated with Sucralfate and PPI. Second endo in May found no ulcers. Doctors said it was the opiates causing the nausea. CT'd Oxycontin, Fentanyl patch.

July 2014 - Lost 48 lbs. due to not eating because of severe nausea. GP prescribed Prozac 20mg and Ativan 2mg prn. Tried for 4 days, quit. Two week followup GP said keep taking Prozac. 4 days, quit again. Ativan taken rarely prn for anxiety and appetite.

August 2014 - Went to detox. Off opiates. Still nauseous, helmet head, drugged feeling. Doctor CT'd gabapentin. Ended up in ER. Found 2 gallstones. Gabapentin reinstated at 900mg. Tried botched up and down taper to get off Gabapentin. No tapering advice from doctor. Said to just CT again.

September 2014 - Coded on table during gallbladder surgery. Developed liver biloma due to CPR by doctor. Had bile bulb inserted for 2 wks to drain.

October 2014 - Gallbladder removed. Still nauseous, 3am cortisol surging, drugged helmet head, vertigo, breathlessness, whooshing head, heart palps.

November 8th, 2014 - CT'd gabapentin suggested by family and 4 different doctors. Was told no withdrawal is associated with gabapentin. Have been in hell ever since. No windows, just one big tsunami every day with same symptoms for 4 months.

December 26, 2014 - Found SA. At least I know I'm not insane. My family thinks I'm doing this to myself. Akathesia has become unbearable.

March 10, 2015 - In absolute daily hell with no relief. Currently taking magnesium 200mg before bedtime.

Link to comment

Alto actually is a very caring person, but she's been at this a long time and when someone asks her for timeframes and guarantees, she just doesn't have any. Her answers are short because she runs this site and is busy. Don't take it personally.

January 2012 - Prescribed 900mg gabapentin and 30mg Norco for lower lumber spinal stenosis pain.

September 2013 - Spinal fusion surgery, 6 levels. Hospital ramped up meds 1500mg gabapentin, 100mg Norco, 80mg Oxycontin, 25mg Fentanyl patch.

January 2014 - Sever nausea daily and with back pain every 4 hours. 2 trips to ER. First endoscopy found ulcer. Treated with Sucralfate and PPI. Second endo in May found no ulcers. Doctors said it was the opiates causing the nausea. CT'd Oxycontin, Fentanyl patch.

July 2014 - Lost 48 lbs. due to not eating because of severe nausea. GP prescribed Prozac 20mg and Ativan 2mg prn. Tried for 4 days, quit. Two week followup GP said keep taking Prozac. 4 days, quit again. Ativan taken rarely prn for anxiety and appetite.

August 2014 - Went to detox. Off opiates. Still nauseous, helmet head, drugged feeling. Doctor CT'd gabapentin. Ended up in ER. Found 2 gallstones. Gabapentin reinstated at 900mg. Tried botched up and down taper to get off Gabapentin. No tapering advice from doctor. Said to just CT again.

September 2014 - Coded on table during gallbladder surgery. Developed liver biloma due to CPR by doctor. Had bile bulb inserted for 2 wks to drain.

October 2014 - Gallbladder removed. Still nauseous, 3am cortisol surging, drugged helmet head, vertigo, breathlessness, whooshing head, heart palps.

November 8th, 2014 - CT'd gabapentin suggested by family and 4 different doctors. Was told no withdrawal is associated with gabapentin. Have been in hell ever since. No windows, just one big tsunami every day with same symptoms for 4 months.

December 26, 2014 - Found SA. At least I know I'm not insane. My family thinks I'm doing this to myself. Akathesia has become unbearable.

March 10, 2015 - In absolute daily hell with no relief. Currently taking magnesium 200mg before bedtime.

Link to comment

That is good to know, I can tell she has a lot of knowledge. I don't know why anyone would respond to a post that they don't have the answer to and offer info that everyone already knows, esp because she is so busy and definitely underpaid. I am confident that I will get an apology from her and others, but then my rose-colored glasses are surgically attached. Anne Frank and I believe that everybody is good at heart. I'm sure that Alto is one of those everybody's. Thanks for confirming it.

 

Also, I read your signature and I am so sorry that you have gone through so much and continue to. Peace and Healing, Wondering

 

Alto actually is a very caring person, but she's been at this a long time and when someone asks her for timeframes and guarantees, she just doesn't have any. Her answers are short because she runs this site and is busy. Don't take it personally.

Trazodone 150-300 nightly

Ambien CR. 3-5 times a week

Taking Klonopin crossing over to Valium started 6-25-15

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  • Moderator Emeritus

 I was tapering off Klonopin, but did it too fast (doctor's plan), now I am updosing to 2mg and holding for six months. Should my body and brain think that 2mg is what I take now (same as when your doc lowers your dose on something). If so, then couldn't I start on tapering Wellbutrin at that time?

 

The short answer from me also is that I don't know, especially because I don't have a lot of benzo experience and I know that tapering from them can be a bit different from tapering from other psychotropics.

 

But my opinion is to give it six months and see how you feel, if you feel stable, (low or no symptoms that dont change significantly), then I would think your brain and NS would have adjusted to the higher dose. Updosing sometimes helps, sometimes makes no difference and sometimes makes things worse. Its impossible to know how it will effect each individual until they try.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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Ok, thanks, Petunia. I appreciate your opinion. Wondering

 

 

 

I was tapering off Klonopin, but did it too fast (doctor's plan), now I am updosing to 2mg and holding for six months. Should my body and brain think that 2mg is what I take now (same as when your doc lowers your dose on something). If so, then couldn't I start on tapering Wellbutrin at that time?

 

The short answer from me also is that I don't know, especially because I don't have a lot of benzo experience and I know that tapering from them can be a bit different from tapering from other psychotropics.

 

But my opinion is to give it six months and see how you feel, if you feel stable, (low or no symptoms that dont change significantly), then I would think your brain and NS would have adjusted to the higher dose. Updosing sometimes helps, sometimes makes no difference and sometimes makes things worse. Its impossible to know how it will effect each individual until they try.

Trazodone 150-300 nightly

Ambien CR. 3-5 times a week

Taking Klonopin crossing over to Valium started 6-25-15

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Let's say people start taking ADs because they are severely depressed. If they taper off the med then what happens to their depression? Besides talk therapy, what would they do about their depressed state? Wondering

Trazodone 150-300 nightly

Ambien CR. 3-5 times a week

Taking Klonopin crossing over to Valium started 6-25-15

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  • Moderator Emeritus

There are many causes of depression Wondering, find the cause and ease the depression. Food intolerance, bad lifestyle, alcohol is a depressant in excess.  Being unhappy is often treated as depression.  Suffering neglect or abuse in childhood leaves scars that cause depression and they need to be worked through not medicated. Sleep deprivation, some illnesses have depression as a symptom, but often the depression is treated as the illness and the illness is thought of as a symptom of depression so it is back to front! Lots of drugs have depression as a side effect.  Lack of some nutrients causes depression.  An example is PPI's or stomach acid blockers, they prevent absorption of vitamin B12, and lack of B12 causes depression.  The list goes on. For many a change in diet can be life changing, for others the right therapy is life changing. Sadly it is easier for doctors to prescribe a pill. I was on the waiting list to see a therapist for 5 whole years in the UK!  It is ridiculously hard to see one through the doctor so people get drugs while they wait. 

 

There is a topic on non drug ways of treating depression in the symptoms section...... http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Due to cognitive difficulties, I went out of town and forget to take my Wellbutrin300XL with me. Worse than that, I wasn't aware it was missing until I saw it went I got home.

So, I was 12 days without taking it. Since I need to stop taking it anyway and I had no withdrawals, should I just quit? Or is Wellbutrin one of those who can give you withdrawals later? Thank you.

Trazodone 150-300 nightly

Ambien CR. 3-5 times a week

Taking Klonopin crossing over to Valium started 6-25-15

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Many people who have been taking Wellbutrin for any length of time will experience some withdrawal symptoms if they stop taking it, so we would normally recommend a careful taper. But other people seem to be able to stop taking it without problems. Its possible that you may start to experience some withdrawal symptoms after a time, but its impossible to know until it happens.

 

Because its been almost 2 weeks without any symptoms, I'm not sure if I would recommend restarting it or not. But do watch carefully for if symptoms do occur. How are you feeling at the moment?

 

Perhaps others have had some experience of stopping Wellbutrin.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Wondering,

There seems to be a bit of a conflict between your two recent posts.

 

So, I was 12 days without taking it. Since I need to stop taking it anyway and I had no withdrawals, should I just quit?

 

And your post in the benzo forum a few hours later.

 

Does anyone have any idea what will happen (will I calm down?) if I take 1 mg Klonopin? I tapered too fast from 3 to I.5mg,went by doc's orders, then updosed to 2 mg May 3, been holding since then (planned to hold for 6 months)and my anxiety is off the charts and getting unbearable. Should I start again at 3 and then taper slowly to zero or is there a supplement that would calm me down. Or any other suggestions? Thank you.

 

So it looks like you have been making large changes in your Klonopin dose from the beginning of the month and then in the middle of the month you went CT off wellbutrin and your anxiety has been getting worse. This sounds like you are having symptoms and its probably a combination of instability from changing your Klonopin dose and going CT off wellbutrin.

 

Given the fact that you are having symptoms, I suggest that you reinstate wellbutrin, perhaps 50% of your dose (150mg) would be enough to stop your symptoms. I really don't know if this will help or not, but I don't know what else to suggest. Increasing the klonopin wont stop withdrawal symptoms from wellbutrin.

 

Here is the wellbutrin tapering topic where you will find information about how to reduce your dose.

Tips for tapering off Wellbutrin, IR, SR, XR, XL (bupropr...

 

And I suggest you read this topic if you haven't already done so:

 

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

I'm sorry you are not feeling well, please let us know what you decide to do.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

Link to comment

Wondering, I had semi-different information from Dr Shipko, who said I could stop taking 200MG Wellbutrin SR without a taper. I've gone off it four times CT, and not had withdrawal. You're on more and you have been on it much longer than I was, though.

 

BTW is is in its own category, not with the Effexor/Cymbalta/Pristiq triplets or the SSRIs. It's closer to amphetamine (Used for ADHD sometimes.)

I bring it up because it would be nice if you didn't have to RI. Have you looked online?

2009: Cancer hospital said I had adjustment disorder because I thought they were doing it wrong. Their headshrinker prescribed Effexor, and my life set on a new course. I didn't know what was ahead, like a passenger on Disneyland's Matterhorn, smiling and waving as it climbs...clink, clink, clink.

2010: Post surgical accidental Effexor discontinuation by nurses, masked by intravenous Dilaudid. (The car is balanced at the top of the track.) I get home, pop a Vicodin, and ...

Whooosh...down, down, down, down, down...goes the trajectory of my life, up goes my mood and tendency to think everything is a good idea.
2012: After the bipolar jig was up, now a walking bag of unrelated symptoms, I went crazy on Daytrana (the Ritalin skin patch by Noven), because ADHD was a perfect fit for a bag of unrelated symptoms. I was prescribed Effexor for the nervousness of it, and things got neurological. An EEG showed enough activity to warrant an epilepsy diagnosis rather than non-epileptic ("psychogenic") seizures.

:o 2013-2014: Quit everything and got worse. I probably went through DAWS: dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome. I drank to not feel, but I felt a lot: dread, fear, regret, grief: an utter sense of total loss of everything worth breathing about, for almost two years.

I was not suicidal but I wanted to be dead, at least dead to the experience of my own brain and body.

2015: I  began to recover after adding virgin coconut oil and organic grass-fed fed butter to a cup of instant coffee in the morning.

I did it hoping for mental acuity and better memory. After ten days of that, I was much better, mood-wise. Approximately neutral.

And, I experienced drowsiness. I could sleep. Not exactly happy, I did 30 days on Wellbutrin, because it had done me no harm in the past. 

I don't have the DAWS mood or state of mind. It never feel like doing anything if it means standing up.

In fact, I don't especially like moving. I'm a brain with a beanbag body.   :unsure:

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Thanks for seeing a conflict I couldn't see and pointing it out to me. I have been anxious and crying daily for weeks (long before I stopped the W). I did ask on this forum a while ago if my body now thinks I am taking 2mg of Klonopin as a regular thing (much like when a doc ups or lowers your dosage on something), but got no response (I probably wasn't clear). So, I took a guess that I was still withdrawing from the K and that is why I had such anxiety. I am not very good at reading myself, like so many on this forum can do. It just so happened that I chose a particular day to ask the benzo forum if there is something I could take for anxiety, didn't even connect it to not taking the W because I have been like this for so long. My hope was that the updosing would help me get through a trip I had to go on, it did not and I have another can't miss trip coming up in July and another in August. Don't know if I should start tapering off K again or keep holding at 2mg for a few more months since I tapered too fast at the beginning. Do you have an opinion?

I can start taking 150 W, but I just got 90 300's in the mail, so I would have to wait for 3 months to get it. I take the name-brand, so I get 90 pills mail-order for $150.00. If I could get my doc to do something special to get me the lower dose, I would still have to wait 12-14 days for them to be mailed to me. I have had bad experiences with generic W and other generics, but if anyone is still reading this (seems I go on and on) have you had luck with a particular generic?

Petunia, 2 pharmacists have told me to just not take the Wellbutrin anymore, since I have had no withdrawals. Until you pointed it out I didn't see the anxiety as a W withdrawal because I am anxious when I take it and thought it was a Klonopin withdrawal. Seems I have messed things up once again.

I know taking a Klonopin when I get beyond anxious won't help if I have W withdrawal but could it help calm me down if this is Klonopin withdrawal, if I just took a half pill when I get that out-of-skin feeling? Thanks for reading and helping. I have read 3KIS, but will read again. Have tried understanding the Wellbutrin tips but found it confusing. Thanks for everything.

 

 

Wondering,

There seems to be a bit of a conflict between your two recent posts.

 

 

So, I was 12 days without taking it. Since I need to stop taking it anyway and I had no withdrawals, should I just quit?

 

And your post in the benzo forum a few hours later.

 

 

Does anyone have any idea what will happen (will I calm down?) if I take 1 mg Klonopin? I tapered too fast from 3 to I.5mg,went by doc's orders, then updosed to 2 mg May 3, been holding since then (planned to hold for 6 months)and my anxiety is off the charts and getting unbearable. Should I start again at 3 and then taper slowly to zero or is there a supplement that would calm me down. Or any other suggestions? Thank you.

 

So it looks like you have been making large changes in your Klonopin dose from the beginning of the month and then in the middle of the month you went CT off wellbutrin and your anxiety has been getting worse. This sounds like you are having symptoms and its probably a combination of instability from changing your Klonopin dose and going CT off wellbutrin.

 

Given the fact that you are having symptoms, I suggest that you reinstate wellbutrin, perhaps 50% of your dose (150mg) would be enough to stop your symptoms. I really don't know if this will help or not, but I don't know what else to suggest. Increasing the klonopin wont stop withdrawal symptoms from wellbutrin.

 

Here is the wellbutrin tapering topic where you will find information about how to reduce your dose.

Tips for tapering off Wellbutrin, IR, SR, XR, XL (bupropr...

 

And I suggest you read this topic if you haven't already done so:

 

 

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

I'm sorry you are not feeling well, please let us know what you decide to do.

Trazodone 150-300 nightly

Ambien CR. 3-5 times a week

Taking Klonopin crossing over to Valium started 6-25-15

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Oh no, mods and admins, one and all.........I think I made another mistake. I just posted in my intro thread, but subject was about benzo, so should have been in benzo thread. Do you have a way to put it in the right place. I mean, I know you do, but would one of you please put it in the right place? As usual, I am so sorry.

Trazodone 150-300 nightly

Ambien CR. 3-5 times a week

Taking Klonopin crossing over to Valium started 6-25-15

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Its ok to post here Wondering, you have both benzo and wellbutrin issues we are looking at right now and so its best to keep it all in one place.

 

If you think the increased anxiety is being caused mostly by Klonopin withdrawal, because it began before you stopped taking Wellbutrin, then you may be right. How are you feeling now that you are back on 2mg? Are you noticing any improvements now?

 

Do you feel calmer now that you are completely off wellbutrin and taking 2mg of Klonopin?

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

Link to comment
  • Moderator

Hey Wondering, I'm gonna chime in with my Wellbutrin knowledge and experience.  I was on that one for a good length of time - 3-5 years (fuzzy time)

 

I've been on Wellbutrin.  I had the hardest time coming off of it, because the fatigue, the depression "kept returning."  I couldn't get off the floor.  I recognize now that "kept returning" was withdrawal.  As I've always had thyroid and (my ortho-doc would say) copper/zinc/B vitamin issues - my manifestation of withdrawal would be different from yours.

 

But let me describe my understanding of how it works.

 

As a stimulant, it is excitatory.  It floods your brain with excitement.  When you withdraw from it - your little nerves are all upset and craving that flood again.  This can manifest as anxiety, intense emotion, nervousness, akathesia, exciteability, sensitivity, etc.  

 

I agree with Dr. Shipko that this is one of the lesser offensive drugs to withdraw from - however, I disagree with Dr. Shipko that it is without any problems at all.  I had problems with it, and I know others who have, as well.  Surely, it is not as horrific as benzo withdrawal, or Cymbalta or Effexor, or Paxil, or any of the withdrawal "monsters."  But just because it is a Little Monster - doesn't mean that your difficulty is to be sneezed at.

 

I'm leaning toward the camp that your withdrawal anxiety is from Wellbutrin, even though you have also messed about with your klonopin.

 

Norco will slow your healing, as well - it's in a class of drugs called "anticholnergic" which puts a damper on everything.  If you can do without it, you will be better off.  Alcohol would have a similar effect.  Is the trazadone supposed to help with your pain?

 

I understand about "drug plans" and you just got your 300's filled.  Is there no other way?  Waiting 3 months for a reinstatement is too long.  You need it now.  Is there a new doc you can go to?  What if you said the 300's are too strong?  I mean, if I had a heart problem, but reacted to warfarin, surely I'd be allowed to try something else?  Or adjust my dose? (which is what I recommend for you - others have said 150mg, at this stage that sounds good)

 

Also - to assuage your fears about Alzheimers:  any anticholinergic drugs can contribute to dementia, including trazadone.  And alcohol!  There are other culprits as well: one being statins (starve the brain of cholesterol and CoQ10), and even stomach acid drugs.  Your Norco, trazadone are just as "dangerous" for contributing to dementia as your benzos.  Your best plan is a long slow taper, one drug at a time, to ease your overall load.  It's not just the benzos, but many factors - including diet and exercise - which contribute to dementia.  Our doctors are still pretty clueless as to what causes the "plaque" in the brain - but it is interesting to note that dementia was not as widespread before the pharmaceutical explosion, especially statins.  (ref:  Duane Graveline, "Lipitor:  Thief of Memory")

 

Personally, my mood improved 60% as I tapered off my statin.  I'm now watching other factors, too, homocysteine, cytokynes, caeruloplasma, etc. - and I may have to go back on one, but I will only ever take tiny doses of the stuff, as it starved my brain.  Something like 50% of folks over 60 are on the things, it's "standard practice of care" to prescribe them if your numbers get above a certain - pharma company determined - range.  Additionally, studies show that the people who are at risk of death are the ones with the lowest cholesterol, not the highest (sorry, lost that reference, studies in the UK).

 

I'm hoping this is not too off topic for you - but I'm willing to bet your Mom was on statins, and my instinct is, you may be, too.

 

Take care, let us know how you are going!

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Be cause I thought this forum was just to survive ADs, I rarely talk about myself. I have had major depression PTSD,panic disorder etc for years and years. Seriously can't rememember having a day without profound sadness or deep depression or crying.. Have tried over 30 medications, countless regular docs, psychs, Edmr, hypnosis and on and on. I have decided to stop all meds one at a time because they obviously haven't helped and I now realize that they are actually bad for my health. Sinne I pretty much feel awful most of the time, I am unable to answer questions about how I feel now compared to some other time. There is no improvement, but there wasn't any improvement when I started holding at 2 mg Klonopin but I am afraid to ask what to do because I guess I don't make myself clear. So, no, I am not noticing any improvement. I can't remember last time I felt calm. Read mixed messages on supplements

Because 3 pharmacists said I won't be feeling any withdrawals from the Wellbutrin because I haven't so far, I won't take anymore. Legally, I can't get an RX for 90 days anyway. I am not comfortable with that decision, but it is what it is.

Since I have been holding at 2 mg Klonopin (after up dosing) since May 3 and feel as bad as ever, should I make a change (doc is clueless)? Should I start tapering again or up dose.? Or hold for 5 more months? I am so scared and confused. I ask doctors pharmacists forums search engines and can find no answers. Maybe you have some ideas for me? Please. Thank you.

 

 

 

Wondering, you have both benzo and wellbutrin issues we are looking at right now and so its best to keep it all in one place.

 

If you think the increased anxiety is being caused mostly by Klonopin withdrawal, because it began before you stopped taking Wellbutrin, then you may be right. How are you feeling now that you are back on 2mg? Are you noticing any improvements now?

 

Do you feel calmer now that you are completely off wellbutrin and taking 2mg of Klonopin?

Trazodone 150-300 nightly

Ambien CR. 3-5 times a week

Taking Klonopin crossing over to Valium started 6-25-15

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Thanks for chiming in, jancarol. I am not going to take anymore Wellbutrin,Can't get a RX for a lower dose for 3 months anyway. I am so fed up not knowing what to do. I do think the lack of W is causing me fatigue but I will try to deal with that, I am always nervous and anxious, so that could or could not be from stopping W. I am afraid I am doing the wrong thing but don't know what the right thing is. I pray that I don't get the "kept returning" that you are talking about and I am sorry you did. Eventually, might I just go back to normal if if I do get the "kept returning?"

Thanks for the heads up on Norco, I take about 3 a week when my back pain is unbearable, never take more than 1 a day, unless something serious happens, right now I am suffering with a chest contusion that is very painful and the doc says I have to breathe deep even through the pain. But otherwise, I only take them when I absolutely need to. Is that ok since the amount is small and infrequent?

I never drink. I have been taking the Trazodone for years for sleep. Want to withdraw from that eventually and the Ambien. Have had insomnia since I was 8. Thanks for telling me about the other Alzheimer's links, I didn't know. More incentive to find a plan to get off all these drugs.

I have had docs tell me to take statins but I always say no, read too many negative things about them. I wasn't proactive about my body and brain and drugs back when my mom had Alzheimer's, so I don't know if she was given them or not. I have spent most of my life taking drugs (at least 30) to get relief from depression. The last 2 psychs I went to said there was nothing that could be done for me. Turns out I took all those drugs for nothing (except for the harm they caused), my problems have been caused by trauma and there is no drug for that. A big sad waste of my life and the two therapists I have gone to for consultations say trauma is the worst, takes years of work And no guarantees of success. Now I am beyond depressed and have years ahead of me tapering off these drugs and being so frightened of the withdrawals. I appreciate the time you took to write to me and educate me, I appreciate it more than you could ever know. I know I am pretty pathetic, but maybe you could be my friend? Thanks for everything.

 

6"]Hey Wondering, I'm gonna chime in with my Wellbutrin knowledge and experience.  I was on that one for a good length of time - 3-5 years (fuzzy time)

 

I've been on Wellbutrin.  I had the hardest time coming off of it, because the fatigue, the depression "kept returning."  I couldn't get off the floor.  I recognize now that "kept returning" was withdrawal.  As I've always had thyroid and (my ortho-doc would say) copper/zinc/B vitamin issues - my manifestation of withdrawal would be different from yours.

 

But let me describe my understanding of how it works.

 

As a stimulant, it is excitatory.  It floods your brain with excitement.  When you withdraw from it - your little nerves are all upset and craving that flood again.  This can manifest as anxiety, intense emotion, nervousness, akathesia, exciteability, sensitivity, etc.  

 

I agree with Dr. Shipko that this is one of the lesser offensive drugs to withdraw from - however, I disagree with Dr. Shipko that it is without any problems at all.  I had problems with it, and I know others who have, as well.  Surely, it is not as horrific as benzo withdrawal, or Cymbalta or Effexor, or Paxil, or any of the withdrawal "monsters."  But just because it is a Little Monster - doesn't mean that your difficulty is to be sneezed at.

 

I'm leaning toward the camp that your withdrawal anxiety is from Wellbutrin, even though you have also messed about with your klonopin.

 

Norco will slow your healing, as well - it's in a class of drugs called "anticholnergic" which puts a damper on everything.  If you can do without it, you will be better off.  Alcohol would have a similar effect.  Is the trazadone supposed to help with your pain?

 

I understand about "drug plans" and you just got your 300's filled.  Is there no other way?  Waiting 3 months for a reinstatement is too long.  You need it now.  Is there a new doc you can go to?  What if you said the 300's are too strong?  I mean, if I had a heart problem, but reacted to warfarin, surely I'd be allowed to try something else?  Or adjust my dose? (which is what I recommend for you - others have said 150mg, at this stage that sounds good)

 

Also - to assuage your fears about Alzheimers:  any anticholinergic drugs can contribute to dementia, including trazadone.  And alcohol!  There are other culprits as well: one being statins (starve the brain of cholesterol and CoQ10), and even stomach acid drugs.  Your Norco, trazadone are just as "dangerous" for contributing to dementia as your benzos.  Your best plan is a long slow taper, one drug at a time, to ease your overall load.  It's not just the benzos, but many factors - including diet and exercise - which contribute to dementia.  Our doctors are still pretty clueless as to what causes the "plaque" in the brain - but it is interesting to note that dementia was not as widespread before the pharmaceutical explosion, especially statins.  (ref:  Duane Graveline, "Lipitor:  Thief of Memory")

 

Personally, my mood improved 60% as I tapered off my statin.  I'm now watching other factors, too, homocysteine, cytokynes, caeruloplasma, etc. - and I may have to go back on one, but I will only ever take tiny doses of the stuff, as it starved my brain.  Something like 50% of folks over 60 are on the things, it's "standard practice of care" to prescribe them if your numbers get above a certain - pharma company determined - range.  Additionally, studies show that the people who are at risk of death are the ones with the lowest cholesterol, not the highest (sorry, lost that reference, studies in the UK).

 

I'm hoping this is not too off topic for you - but I'm willing to bet your Mom was on statins, and my instinct is, you may be, too.

 

Take care, let us know how you are going!

 

Hey Wondering, I'm gonna chime in with my Wellbutrin knowledge and experience.  I was on that one for a good length of time - 3-5 years (fuzzy time)

 

I've been on Wellbutrin.  I had the hardest time coming off of it, because the fatigue, the depression "kept returning."  I couldn't get off the floor.  I recognize now that "kept returning" was withdrawal.  As I've always had thyroid and (my ortho-doc would say) copper/zinc/B vitamin issues - my manifestation of withdrawal would be different from yours.

 

But let me describe my understanding of how it works.

 

As a stimulant, it is excitatory.  It floods your brain with excitement.  When you withdraw from it - your little nerves are all upset and craving that flood again.  This can manifest as anxiety, intense emotion, nervousness, akathesia, exciteability, sensitivity, etc.  

 

I agree with Dr. Shipko that this is one of the lesser offensive drugs to withdraw from - however, I disagree with Dr. Shipko that it is without any problems at all.  I had problems with it, and I know others who have, as well.  Surely, it is not as horrific as benzo withdrawal, or Cymbalta or Effexor, or Paxil, or any of the withdrawal "monsters."  But just because it is a Little Monster - doesn't mean that your difficulty is to be sneezed at.

 

I'm leaning toward the camp that your withdrawal anxiety is from Wellbutrin, even though you have also messed about with your klonopin.

 

Norco will slow your healing, as well - it's in a class of drugs called "anticholnergic" which puts a damper on everything.  If you can do without it, you will be better off.  Alcohol would have a similar effect.  Is the trazadone supposed to help with your pain?

 

I understand about "drug plans" and you just got your 300's filled.  Is there no other way?  Waiting 3 months for a reinstatement is too long.  You need it now.  Is there a new doc you can go to?  What if you said the 300's are too strong?  I mean, if I had a heart problem, but reacted to warfarin, surely I'd be allowed to try something else?  Or adjust my dose? (which is what I recommend for you - others have said 150mg, at this stage that sounds good)

 

Also - to assuage your fears about Alzheimers:  any anticholinergic drugs can contribute to dementia, including trazadone.  And alcohol!  There are other culprits as well: one being statins (starve the brain of cholesterol and CoQ10), and even stomach acid drugs.  Your Norco, trazadone are just as "dangerous" for contributing to dementia as your benzos.  Your best plan is a long slow taper, one drug at a time, to ease your overall load.  It's not just the benzos, but many factors - including diet and exercise - which contribute to dementia.  Our doctors are still pretty clueless as to what causes the "plaque" in the brain - but it is interesting to note that dementia was not as widespread before the pharmaceutical explosion, especially statins.  (ref:  Duane Graveline, "Lipitor:  Thief of Memory")

 

Personally, my mood improved 60% as I tapered off my statin.  I'm now watching other factors, too, homocysteine, cytokynes, caeruloplasma, etc. - and I may have to go back on one, but I will only ever take tiny doses of the stuff, as it starved my brain.  Something like 50% of folks over 60 are on the things, it's "standard practice of care" to prescribe them if your numbers get above a certain - pharma company determined - range.  Additionally, studies show that the people who are at risk of death are the ones with the lowest cholesterol, not the highest (sorry, lost that reference, studies in the UK).

 

I'm hoping this is not too off topic for you - but I'm willing to bet your Mom was on statins, and my instinct is, you may be, too.

 

Take care, let us know how you are going!

Trazodone 150-300 nightly

Ambien CR. 3-5 times a week

Taking Klonopin crossing over to Valium started 6-25-15

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Wondering,

I'm sorry, I don't have any more ideas for you, but a question. How long were you taking wellbutrin for?

 

Please would you add that you stopped taking it to your signature, along with the date. I support your long term goal of getting off all your medications and believe that your physical health will improve when you do.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Rhetorical question, how would a person even make cuts like those offered byamydgala? I didn't write back because all I could think to say was. "HUH?" That would have been rude.

Good luck getting a specific response. Back in the day, people really wanted to help people. Even though you aren't talking benzos, the benzobuddies (who are still helpful with specifics) would probably help you. Funny that, I have the same question as you but haven't asked it here because I figured I would just get "The Sounds Of Silence". Good luck, I am mentally ill with so many questions, but few answers from this group. Too bad, this group is only game in town that has some really knowledgeable people in it. I might just try and find some that seem nice and pm them. I have a burning question right now that I can't find an answer to, so I think I will try once asking here (if I can find my intro) and then try the pm route. Hope my note inspires someone to answer you.

 

 

Hi Wondering,

 

This is a disappointing post to say the least.   You have indeed asked for advice on this and it has been given to you by another member (Amygdala)  - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2883-tips-for-tapering-off-trazodone-desyrel/#entry153554 

 

I note that you haven't acknowledged the support you've been provided by Amygdala, nor have you thanked him for taking time and energy to do this. Instead, you have complained here about the lack of support you have been provided with.   This, as you say, is the only game in town.  This means that our membership has grown markedly this year and as volunteers we have at times struggled to do the best we can.   

 

Might I remind you that we all have our own health struggles to deal with.  I suggest you take a moment to reflect on your sense of entitlement and lack of gratitude.

 

Dalsaan

Trazodone 150-300 nightly

Ambien CR. 3-5 times a week

Taking Klonopin crossing over to Valium started 6-25-15

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  • Administrator

Wondering, you tend to be rude. Please post only in your own Intro topic or benzo forum topic. Bookmark them or follow them so you can find them again.

 

Consider whether you'd rather have a warning.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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