☼ dan998: Cold turkey, reinstatement and tapering citalopram

[Dan998]

You're right Flowers. The physical symptoms are so much easier to cope with.

[Dan998]

My symptoms are still all over the place, this is such a crazy wave that I’m enduring at the moment. Tinnitus and dizziness is more severe, but headache has disappeared, chest pain is almost gone and energy levels have improved.

 

I went for an unintentionally long walk at the seaside yesterday. The sun was out, I got into a nice rhythm and just kept going and going, did about 9km. It really helped take the edge off the anxiety, felt much calmer and slept well last night. The muscles in my legs are sore as hell today, but it was definitely worth the effort.

 

I’m thinking that I need more exercise, because I can feel myself getting more anxious and agitated whenever I stay indoors for too long. Which is amazing progress considering that I’d suffered from agoraphobia the whole time I was on full dose.

[Flowers]

Is there anything you've tried that helps with the tinnitus? I get it too but it is not constant and passes eventually.

 

So glad the walk helped though - it's the one thing I can count on to ease anxiety and improve mood. I've never walked 9km though!!!

[Dan998]

I've had tinnitus constantly since September, sort of getting used to it now. I can usually drown it out with TV or radio. Only really notice it when sitting quietly.

[Dan998]

More wavy weirdness. I had what I can only describe as a brain judder. It was as if my head was briefly shaking from the inside. I’d only just woken up, and was in that twilight zone between being awake and being asleep when it happened, so I could have still been dreaming or it might be just a zap, but it feels different to anything I’ve had before. 

 

I dunno if it’s connected to the brain judderiness or not, but I’ve been demotivated and tired all day. Although, I have been very active last couple of days so it’s probably just tired muscles and I need to rest and recuperate. It’s all too easy to blame every ache and pain on withdrawal. 

 

I’m really hoping that all this destabilization is because my brain is undergoing some repair work and that I can look forward to an improved baseline once this wave is over. Only time will tell. Holding at 5.2 mg for now.

[SquirrellyGirl]

It hasn't happened often but I have also had the weird internal shudders/shakes/vibrating - what is that about?!!  It's transient, thankfully, so I don't get upset about it, and since I had read about it before, I thought "oh, that's what they were talking about!"  I've had the vibrating in my chest, and I had my eyeballs feel like they were jumping around in their sockets, both when I was in bed.  I wonder if it is related to that feeling of falling that we get that makes us jerk?

 

WD, always surprises around the corner LOL!  

 

Yup, it's easy to say "it's WD" but truly, we are vulnerable to pushing too hard, to stress, and must give ourselves permission to go easy to recuperate, not feel guilty or judgmental about it.

 

I like to think of wd symptoms as repair in action, like you mentioned.  It's a more positive spin.  Helps to recite a mantra such as "I am healing and this, too, shall pass"

 

SG

[Flowers]

OMG Dan! I had exactly the same thing happen one night recently when I was sitting on the sofa watching TV! I thought I had imagined it! But obviously not if you and SG have experienced this.

 

I would say though that this happened during a particularly bad wave which started to ease almost immediately afterwards.

It was as if my brain had gone into a different gear and I became more alert and not so anxious or depressed.

 

Hope it has the same effect for you.

 

What on earth will we experience next?!!!!

[Dan998]

Ha ha, unlucky dip. Which horrible symptom will you experience next?

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the juddering was linked to sleep. It seems that many symptoms are.

 

Really hoping that my brain changes gear soon. That would be ace.

[Dan998]

It seems that this wave has finally subsided. Was totally drained of all energy at the weekend, I couldn’t lift a finger if I wanted to. I slept and slept and then slept some more. I got a full 8 hours sleep, something which I hadn’t done for over a year. I had afternoon naps and crashed out early evening. It felt wonderfully restorative, but I’m back to my normal pattern again now; 5-6 hours followed by another couple of hours drifting in and out of consciousness, before dragging myself out of bed to face another monotonous day.

 

I’ve had increased energy and motivation for the last couple of days. Made the most of it and cracked on with some gardening, nothing too strenuous, just did some pruning and tidying up, stuff I’d been putting off due to the incessant apathy, so a bit of progress there.

 

The world seems a little less alien today, and my concept of reality seems more… err… real. Which is nice.

 

Also, my eyesight appears to have improved, I’m noticing more details and my peripheral vision and depth perception also seems better. The floaters are still there though.

 

The concept of time has also changed, I can sense it passing now, nagging at me to use it in a more purposeful way, don’t know if this is a good thing or not as it’s making me slightly anxious.

 

This wave has been full of unpleasantness. I was hoping that its passing would have given me some relief from the tinnitus and anxiety, it didn’t, but I’ll accept the unexpected gifts I’ve gained with good grace.

 

On with the tapering. Cutting 2% to 5.1mg.

[Dan998]

In my last post I wrote, “I got a full 8 hours sleep, something which I hadn’t done for over a year.” I was talking bollocks. After looking through my notes it turns out that I have indeed got a full night’s sleep on quite a few occasions. This just goes to prove how much withdrawal screws about with your memory and the importance of keeping detailed notes.

 

Had a large dose of apathy this past week, but then that’s pretty normal for withdrawal. Really couldn’t be bothered with doing anything. I know I was just as apathetic for all those years on full dose, the difference was that I didn’t notice and/ or didn’t care. Now I am noticing, and I don’t like it. I reckon this is going to be something that will be there throughout my taper and wont resolve until I’m completely off of citalopram. 

 

Got out for a long walk today. I felt very nervous and on-edge the whole time, had a sense that something bad was going to happen. I didn’t, but the whole experience seemed overwhelming. I don’t think it was derealisation. Quite the opposite, everything seemed to be too real and vibrant. Most odd, but then everything about this is odd. 

 

More importantly, I am down to 5mg!!! It’s been a hard slog getting from 5.5 to 5.0. I’m really hoping that this was what Dr Healy calls “a shelf” and that I’ll have an easier time of things for a while now. There’s still a long way to go, but 5mg seems like a significant milestone because I was unable to stabilise on this dose when I reinstated.

[Ali4]

Good for you Dan!!!!! I'm trying to stabilize after-reinstating celexa, fast taper over 4 weeks from 30mg to zero, within 2 weeks all HELL broke loose, it's been almost two weeks since I reinstated, most WD symptoms are gone, just zaps and headaches left, hope they go away soon. When I'm stable after few months, I think I will follow suit with a micro taper as well . Take care and goodluck too you!!

[Dan998]

The other day I was feeling very despondent, “Why am putting myself through this? Progress is agonisingly slow. Why don’t I just stick at 5mg, forget about tapering and try to get on with my life?” This lasted for a few hours before my mood returned to baseline.

 

Later that same day I had a lovely window. I was out walking and had an overwhelming sense of déjà vu. It felt normal, not just normal for withdrawal, but really normal. I was briefly me again, transported back to a long forgotten past before antidepressants. I was calm, my self-confidence was back and nothing seemed threatening like it usually does when I’m out in the world. I had a sense of belonging and felt like a part of the human race, instead of an alien in a human disguise. It was truly wonderful. I strode down the road with my head, and my hopes, held high. I shall cherish the memory of this magical hour and use it whenever I need a boost to my resolve. 

 

Up until now, it has mostly been a slowly improving baseline with the occasional horrific wave. I’ve had a few what I thought were windows, but they were nothing in comparison to this one. This was the real deal, the genuine article, and it was ace! I wish it could last forever, it won’t, but I now have faith that there will be many more as I get closer to zero and my synapses begin working as nature intended. 

 

I can do this! Change is happening. The windows will get longer and longer, and the waves will get shorter and shorter.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Dan, thanks so much for sharing this, gave me a real "joy point!"  I felt so excited for you!  I know how that is, to go down to where the hopelessness overwhelms and it seems you'll never be free of these drugs, but your window brings the prize into sight!

 

I'm hoping for the same, though I honestly don't remember how I felt 20 years ago pre-drug.  I know I had low self-esteem, confidence issues and such but I wasn't always depressed.  I've done emotional work to cope with those issues so I'm hoping that I will emerge with confidence and vibrancy!  Vibrancy, ever elusive!  Sounds like you had it with your window!

 

SG

[AliG]

Dan.   I'm so pleased that I read this today.         What a wonderful window !  So encouraging for you & anyone reading this.  Change, is indeed happening and healing , as well . Now you know for sure , it's not only possible , but probable. You have experienced it .  Try not to forget that moment !  It might help get you through the dark times, of which I hope there will be few from hereon in .  I hope you are feeling as positive , as we are reading this.

Ali

[Dan998]

@Ali4

Glad to hear that the RI is working out for you. When I was 2 weeks in I got too impatient and wanted instant relief from all symptoms. I made the mistake of up-dosing to 10mg, when I probably didn't need to. So if you can hold at 5mg for a few months and tolerate the symptoms then you will have a much shorter taper. It's taken me an extra 7 months to get back down from 10mg to 5mg.

 

I had the headaches too. They were constant for a couple of months but did eventually go away. I do sometimes still get them, but they aren't as severe and don't last very long now.

 

The micro taper is a much smoother ride than 10% drops. It takes a bit of trial and error to find the maximum rate at which you can drop, for me it's 2% per week, any more than that and I get hit with panic attacks and insomnia. Knowing when to hold is a lesson that I'm finding difficult to learn.

[Dan998]

@SquirrellyGirl

I had a couple of weeks in a wave and an hour of vibrancy, not much of a reward, but just enough to keep me going.

 

I never really had depression either, I mostly suffered from social anxiety and low self-esteem. The drugs did nothing to help with that, if anything they made things worse. I became very reclusive and isolated. The drugs actually reinforced this behaviour, they allowed me to bury my head in the sand and not care about my problems. Now I'm waking up from hibernation with an under-developed brain that never learnt proper coping strategies. 

[Dan998]

Thanks @AliG

Yes, I am feeling positive. There's finally some light at the end of the tunnel. I'm starting to believe that I can make it through this ordeal and come out the other side much stronger for the experience. 

[Ali4]

It's not easy and the symptoms are horrible at times, waiting not so patiently too feel better, reading your post gives me hope ☺ Ali.

[Dan998]

There's no getting around the fact that this is incredibly dull. Ticking away the moments. It feels like it will never end. Do anything you can to distract yourself from thinking about symptoms; reading, watching TV, computer games, colouring books. It all helps to pass the time and get another day closer to feeling better.

[Ali4]

Thank you,encouragement goes a long way.

[Ali4]

Thank you,encouragement goes a long way.

[Dan998]

My mood has been swinging like a demented pendulum. One minute I'm full of sadness and despair, the next minute it's all hopefulness and optimism, with some mania and agitation thrown in for good measure.

 

I can see why doctors mistake WD for bipolar. Feeling very unstable.

 

Seriously considering a long hold, of at least a month, to give my brain a rest from tapering.

[Ali4]

Does our nightmare ever end??? Today I just feel WEIRD, like I'm here but I'm not, I think I'm just existing today, hope tommorow is better.

[Dan998]

These windows and waves are so cruel. 

 

I’m starting to wish that I’d never had that window the other day. It’s like I’d crawled to the top of the pit of despair, felt the warm sun on my face, breathed the sweet air, saw friendly people beckoning me to come and join them, and then having the withdrawal monster dragging me back down for some more torture.

 

I dared to make some plans for the future. Nothing too ambitious, just ordinary stuff like getting a job, moving house and making some friends. But, I woke up to a cortisol morning and I’ve felt incredibly anxious all day. It’s like I’ve gone back to pre-reinstatement. My modest dreams seem so far out of reach now.

 

It’s horrible how the withdrawal monster magnifies all your fears and insecurities. Makes everything seem a 10x worse than it really is. Makes you feel that you’ll never be normal again. Makes even the simplest task seem like climbing Mt Everest.

 

One day, I’m gonna give that monster a hefty kick in the balls and laugh in his face. Not today though, today I just want to hide in the corner and pray that he doesn’t notice me.

[Ali4]

Omg, I'm in the same hell, woke with a headache that has turned into a MASSIVE MIGRAINE, with a very strange burning sensation, anxiety and panic through the roof, I want to crawl in a corner and disappear.

[Dan998]

That sense of déjà vu is back again. I’d been struggling to put my finger on it, but I think I know what it is now. It is my memories and emotions re-awakening. It’s hard to explain, it feels very odd, almost frightening, but somehow comforting knowing that my brain is trying to get back to normal.

 

Lately, I’ve been remembering some of my past with emotional context, I can remember the moment and I can almost, but not quite, feel how that moment felt. It lasts for a few precious milliseconds before evaporating back into the bubbling cauldron of consciousness. A fleeting glimpse of what will be? 

Well, those milliseconds of emotions are now turning into whole seconds. The memories are flooding my brain, they are getting stronger and stronger. My sense of self is becoming much clearer.

 

The downside is that I’m having to deal with guilt, shame, embarrassment and regret for the first time in 15 years. Antidepressants did such a good job of suppressing these feelings, but they are all coming to the surface now. I suppose they’re part of being human and I’m just going to have to learn how to cope with real emotions again, the good, the bad and the ugly.

 

[Dan998]

I’m also having to confront boredom again. I can remember getting easily bored as a child, I could never sit still, and was always active. Quite often boredom would lead me into mischief and thrill seeking behaviour. I reckon nowadays I would be slapped with a diagnosis of ADHD, but back then I was just labelled as naughty and disobedient. 

 

As an adult, boredom ruined many jobs, sabotaged relationships and lead to drug and alcohol abuse. But then, it also spurred me on to try exciting new activities and hobbies, visit new places and have some brilliant adventures.

 

I was never bored on AD’s. I would just sit contentedly in front of the TV.  So perhaps boredom is actually a necessary evil that will help to banish my apathy and demotivation. A sign that I’m healing?

[Dan998]

I had a horrifically violent nightmare and woke up into a massive panic attack. Its 4 hours later and I still haven’t calmed down. 

 

Does this ever end? Because, I don’t know how much more I can take. I can’t go on living like this for years and years. I need to get some quality of life back soon.

 

I thought I was taking this taper nice and slow, but obviously not slow enough. I guess I’ll just have to keep holding until my brain catches up.

[Flowers]

Hi Dan

 

Nightmares are rotten and can stay with us for a while. I am sorry you are having a bumpy ride at the moment. Hold on to the wonderful window day you had recently. I hope there will be another one for you soon.

 

Take things nice and slow - you are doing all the right things.

 

xxxxxxxFlowers

[Ali4]

Dan,

 

Have you had any issues with your sinuses through this process? My sinuses for some reason are messed up since mine all started, I understand the nightmares, they can definitely be scary, I also understand wanting quality of life. How long did it take you too stabilize on 10mg before you started tapering?

[Dan998]

Hi Flowers,

Thankfully the nightmares are very rare. This one was particularly graphic and gruesome. It's taken me all day to calm down from it 

 

Yes, I do have to remind myself that I have had some good days and that this is just a blip that will pass.

 

Hope everything is going well for you.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Yup, time to re-read this:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8870-dan998-attempting-reinstatement-after-2-months-cold-turkey/?p=211668

 

When we are in a wave we end up back in the extreme thinking of trauma and hopelessness.  This window was proof that healing is taking place even on the bad days, and that there is light at the end of the tunnel.  Who knows - perhaps tomorrow will be another window day like this last one!  I really find it helpful to have a mantra to recite at these times.  From the Emotional Brain Training work I've been doing, we have this one for when we are in those extreme brain states:

 

Do not judge (myself, others, withdrawal...)

Minimize harm (that this brain state is causing me - self care, self-nurturing, etc.)

Know it will pass

 

Recite these three phrases over and over until you find yourself calming down and not feeling so in despair.  This could be 100 times or as many as it takes!  Do this when you have these panic attacks.

 

Another mantra, of many, that I recite is:  This is withdrawal and I am healing; I can take one moment at a time

 

Recite these over and over, changing the emphasis on a different word each time you say it.  Ramp it up with a triumphant, happy tone!  Sing it!  

 

You will get through this wave and on to a window.  I know it is distressing when you are in this state to think about it going on and on, so that is why it is important to say to yourself "take one moment at a time."  When we project our fears into the future it feels unbearable, but we can't predict the future so worrying about it only creates more suffering!

 

Hang in there, Dan!

SG

[Dan998]

Hey Ali,

That's really interesting that you mention about the sinuses. I had excruciating sinus pain before I reinstated. The pain went across my brow, down the right side of my face and made my teeth ache. It was agony.

 

My doctor prescribed a corticosteriod spray which cleared it up within a couple of months. But, I'm now thinking that the sinus pain was more connected to withdrawal, because I started taking the steroids at the same time as I reinstated and it coincided with stabilising, which also took about two months.

 

It's probably best to stay away from the steroid spray. It can cause depression, anxiety and memory loss. I only recently learnt about this. I've been squirting that crap up my nose for nearly a year 

[Dan998]

I have made a really stupid mistake with my tapering!!!  

 

I’ve just had a re-read of the tapering thread and it says not to drink the liquid that is left in the nozzle. Well, I have been drinking the liquid in the nozzle. I take my measured dose and then draw up some fresh water and drink that as well, to flush away the horrible taste in my mouth. I then give the syringe a flick to remove the residue.

 

Now, this shouldn’t really be a problem because I’ve done this since the beginning of my taper, so my doses would have been constant, it would just have meant that I had been taking slightly more than I thought I was.

 

About a month ago I replaced my syringe because the numbers had rubbed off. The replacement was a different brand and now I’m wondering if the nozzle holds a lower volume of liquid, because I’d felt more symptomatic since the switch. Anyway, I stabilised and carried on tapering.

 

The real problems only started when I got down to 5mg and thought I could take a short cut. I dissolved 10mg in 10ml and measured out 5ml as usual. Then, the next day I assumed that what was left in the bottle was also 5ml (10 -5 = 5). So, I just drank it straight from the bottle without measuring.

 

I double checked and it turns out that the nozzle holds 0.2ml of liquid. This means that I’ve been taking 5.2mg one day and 4.8mg the next. I have been doing this for the last two weeks!! It explains why I have been having really bad mood swings and generally feeling like crap. 

 

I have been inadvertently bouncing my dose by 8% every day!!!!

 

 Don’t make this mistake. Don’t drink the liquid in the nozzle. Don’t take short-cuts. Measure every dose properly.  

[Dan998]

Thanks SG,

 

I will give those EBT techniques a go. I also find that distraction works really well. Maybe I'll try doing EBT and distraction at the same time.

[Dan998]

Wow. I'm so glad I figured out that measuring error. I was considering doing a really long hold at 5mg. That could have turned nasty if I had continued fluctuating daily doses like that.

 

I'm feeling much calmer now I've solved that little mystery.