naturegirl: please help

[pug]

Naturegirl,

 

I hope that things are improving for you and that you are feeling better. I read your whole thread and I am pulling for you!

[naturegirl]

Hi everyone,

 

I have been pretty miserable with a lot of physical symptoms, and they are all spot on for fibromyalgia. Lots of muscle pain especially in neck and upper and lower back, and between my ribs. Random cramping and burning in my feet. Dizziness. Trouble thinking. Burning, red eyes. Bladder urgency. Fatigue no matter how much sleep I get (one night I got 10 hours and felt worse than ever the whole next day). I have tapered the prozac to 1.3 mg. This is really tough to deal with day after day, I'm starting to really doubt this is protracted withdrawal after all. I don't know what to do... It will be such a waste if I suffer for years and never get better, stubbornly blaming this on withdrawal when all along it was fibromyalgia. True, I never had these problems before effexor, but maybe the effexor did changes to my body that cannot be repaired. I just don't know how long to keep waiting this out to see if I get better. I have very little anxiety or depression- I still get mild flashes of anxiety for no reason, and only have despair when the physical stuff gets me down. I just try to distract myself all the time from the pain. Has anyone had a lot of physical problems that finally improved?

[Fresh]

Hi NG , have things become overall better or worse since July 19 , when you were taking 2mg prozac?  It's a big drop to 1.3mg , and would 

have repercussions even if you'd been stable before the drop.   

I agree with alot of what clearday said , and agree that the line of thinking "I wasn't on it long so I'll be fine to drop quickly" is dangerous.

 

The good news is , yes , lots of people recover from antidepressant use.  The symptoms you have are consistent with discontinuation , and they 

will all resolve.  Until that time , they will most likely keep changing form and intensity.

This is me 15 months ago . . . akathisia , psych-motor retardation , frail , so many thoughts I couldn't articulate anything.

All those symptoms went away.  

[naturegirl]

Hi Fresh,

I am no worse off since my last dosage reduction. I've had the fibromyalgia like symptoms in windows and waves since discontinuing effexor 17 months ago. I had a break from Jan till April 2015 and was doing really well, then developed severe, relentless anxiety out of the blue and had to take clonazepam and prozac. Now that I'm tapering prozac, the fibromyalgia is back. So maybe it's due to prozac withdrawal? I'm reluctant to slow the prozac taper, as in my experience a slow taper alleviates acute withdrawal symptoms but not protracted withdrawal. So, if I'm going to suffer regardless, I may as well get the ball rolling. I truly feel like this is toxic poison and need to get it out of my body asap as long as acute withdrawal doesn't appear. I guess I will just continue with one day at a time and pray the fibromyalgia resolves eventually, as its quite debilitating.

[clearday]

Has anyone had a lot of physical problems that finally improved?

 

Yes, a lot of people have largely recovered from protracted SSRI withdrawal. It just takes a long time.

 

I've been through this twice. I've been dealing with SSRIs for almost 20 years. I've been through protracted withdrawal twice.

 

Your symptoms are all typical SSRI WD, and it makes sense that all your symptoms are due to your use of SSRIs.

 

I spent over three years dealing with withdrawal from Prozac. I had dry burning eyes, sensitivity to light, severe daily fatigue due to non-restorative sleep, brain fog, anhedonia, all due to stopping Prozac. All those symptoms cleared up after a few years.  I have plenty of energy and my eyes are fine. I never thought the symptoms would go away, but they did. And the whole time I had no idea what was causing my symptoms, I thought i had some mysterious illness. I did so many medical tests. Doctors were all clueless. So years later, I went on Lexapro for mild depression. What a mistake. 

 

I am now going through difficult withdrawal from Lexapro. My symptoms are all slowly getting better. But difficult waves still come. Overall my windows are getting better and longer, and the many symptoms I had have all improved. But it has been very difficult, it is easy to lose hope. And I still have a ways to go. I have no depression or anxiety. Just mostly physical symptoms. Sometimes brain fog creeps in during waves, then it goes away.

 

But we know how this all works, it is windows and waves, and we have to work hard to stick it out for the long haul. Knowing all that I know now, It is very clear that all my symptoms have always been due to damage from SSRIs, there is just no doubt. I am very healthy and active. It was these poisons that did it. Doctors did all their tests, and found nothing else. Once I found these forums, I found people coming off Prozac who had exactly the same symptoms I had after Prozac - dry, burning, tired eyes, chronic fatigue, brain fog, sweating, and more.

 

Then with the Lexapro, so many others with the same WD symptoms from this crap. It all became quickly clear what should have been so obvious all along. I was so happy to find these forums. The answer was clear. I spent years researching what could have been causing my symptoms after stopping Prozac - was it chronic fatigue syndrome; adrenal burnout; diet problems; Epstein-Barr; thyroid problems, etc etc. None of those fit. Years later - once I read the many stories on this and other forums, it was clear right away. SSRI usage has caused all these years of suffering, ruining my career, ruining my life plans, causing confusion and hardship for my family. But at least now I know that as long as I stay away from these SSRIs, I will heal, and will never have to go through it again. I healed once from the Prozac, and I am healing from Lexapro. 

[naturegirl]

I don't know what's happening to me. I'm out of town visiting family and haven't slept in 3 days. Before that I was sleeping fine. The first 2 nights I was calm but couldn't sleep. Last night my heart pounded all night and I felt like I was going to die. Like a non-stop panic attack. None of this makes any sense. I don't feel anxious about anything. I am starting to wonder if I'm truly "mentally ill". I'm so scared. Someone please help me.

[DaddyCee]

When I go on vacation be it in my native country or elsewhere in the world, I also find it hard to sleep for the first few nights.  I think this is only natural as you are in new surroundings. I'm pretty sure you are not "mentally ill".  Don't try and find a reason for feeling the way you are, just accept it and don't pay too much attention to it. Try deep breathing exercises to quiet the mind.

 

Namaste.

[clearday]

I have found that traveling during recovery can be very stressful.

 

That stress can trigger the insomnia and anxiety, and that can snowball.

 

I have put off trips until I am feeling much better.

[pug]

Nature girl,

 

You are not mentally I'll, you are in antidepressant withdrawal, like all of us here. It is the withdrawal which is unpredictable and random that is causing your sleep issues. I have them too and they are tough to deal with. The new environment is also possibly adding to your stress which does not help. I use a white noise generator, have you tried one? It would give you a consistent sleep environment and may help at home and on the road.

 

Remember, these symptoms are not you, they are withdrawal.

[naturegirl]

So, I took 1.5 mg lorazepam my sister had as I was that desperate for relief. It allowed me to get about 2 hours of sleep this morning. I feel absolutely terrible- pounding head, all over body pain from tossing and turning and not sleeping.I have sworn off traveling from now on, which is very sad as I will then be isolated from my family. I wish I could understand what is wrong- its normal to sleep and required for life! Why would my body just stop for 3 solid days?? Is it trying to kill itself? I feel like a crazy person with so little sleep. I have a white noise machine which I brought with. Also my favorite sleepy time tea. Have kept up my exercise routine here mainly to promote sleep and relieve anxiety. None of my efforts pay off. My entire family is so confused by my problem, they don't know what to say. To them its simple- just sleep, go take a nap! Yeah right, if I could I wouldn't be in this position.

[Fresh]

I'm so sorry you're having such a dreadful time. Unfortunately it is all consistent with withdrawal.  You'd be surprised how long a person in w/d

can go on just one or two hours of broken sleep a night , For me it was literally months.

 

I can only imagine how hard it's been to keep up a professional facade during all this.  I think the "fake it till you make it" philosophy can get us

through rough patches , but after 6 or 9 months maybe it's time for you to reassess your situation.

Clearly this is not a path you would have chosen.  Your path of career , marriage , children has been interrupted.   But it is what it is , and you've

been suffering greatly.

In the same way as one would not expect a person with bone fractures all over their body to go on with their regular activities , so it is with

sickness of the central nervous system.   You have a better chance of a successful recovery if you can focus on that for a while and relieve

yourself of stresses associated with work and other responsibilities.

Maybe it's time to take a longer-term view , and give consideration to taking 6 months off and letting yourself heal.  The sooner you heal , the

sooner you get back to the life-plan you want.  

 

You mentioned biofeedback earlier - I've had an astonishing response to CES therapy , as have others on this site (offeffexor , bloodrush , and now CW 500).  See this thread about different devices  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4829-alpha-stim-fisher-wallace-sota-biotuner-pons-and-similar-devices/

 

BTW , your body isn't trying to kill itself , it's desperately trying to achieve homeostasis , and in the process is lurching all over the place , neurons misfiring like crazy.   It's all temporary - this site is full of members who have recovered.

 

[OffEFFexor]

I am so sorry you have to endure this. I had horrible insomnia for about a month at the start of the summer; gratefully it passed, it was by far the worst symptom of all for me. 

 

Many times in the past year I've felt as if I was losing my mind.  A huge factor in my keeping my sanity was after I found this site (and the other site which closed down), I read dozens of stories similar to mine, and I was led to the few doctors who describe and recognize this syndrome of delayed prolonged AD withdrawal. 

 

This essential information led me to the (correct) diagnosis for myself, a diagnosis my psychiatrist disagreed with, and that few other doctors would have offered me.  Armed with the diagnosis, I was able to get through those horrific days and nights when my poor drug-injured brain and mind were malfunctioning the worst.

 

I have gotten better, my brain has healed to a significant extent, but it took time, many many months, and I am still not 100% (maybe somewhere around 70% .)  But this is typical for the natural course of this syndrome.  Long, slow, non-linear recovery, with lots of ups and downs over many months.  One day, this will be in the medical textbooks (or their digital equivalent). 

[naturegirl]

Thanks everyone.

As soon as I returned home from visiting family I started sleeping normally again. I am feeling very frustrated because I (once again) made a fool of myself in front of family. I told them I won't be visiting for a very long time, if ever. I am tired of things happening to me that make absolutely no sense. I was excited and happy to go visit family. I was in a good frame of mind when I left. There was nothing stressful about this for me. Apparently sleeping in a different bed was enough to stress me out to the point that I didn't sleep a wink for 3 nights straight, and on the 4th night slept 6 hours. I was like a zombie the whole time. I am wondering if I will ever be able to predict my body's reaction to different situations again. Things like traveling never used to be extra stressful for me. In fact, traveling used to make me extra-happy because I enjoyed it so much. My life is completely different now and I have no control over it. I am really upset with myself for taking Prozac. I have set myself back to square one. I had made so much progress. I wonder if I'll ever be normal again. I would trade my original problem (work stress/anxiety) for all this crap in a second! I had no idea how good I had it back then.

 

I'm starting acupuncture next week. I found out my insurance covers part of it so why not, maybe it will help. I still have "fibromyalgia" symptoms. I'm also training for a triathlon. The only thing that help me feel better these days is exercise.  

[LoveandLight]

It's amazing..none of us knew how good we had it before all this med crap!

[naturegirl]

Guys, I'm doing really badly. My heart started pounding out of the blue 3 days ago and hasn't stopped since. I can't sleep, not even for 5 minutes. Lots of anxiety in my stomach. I've been going to work like this. Feeling desperate. Trying to decide if I should go to the hospital and just resign myself to a lifetime of drugs. That's better than suicide, right? I have some clonazepam here, I could take one of those. My family including my husband are fed up with me, my support system is breaking down. I begged my husband for a clonazepam last night (I had him hide them from me months ago) and he ended up screaming no at me, pull yourself together, etc. It was awful. Then he slept in the guestroom and I laid in bed with a pounding heart all night. God help me, I don't know how to keep going like this. Feeling so low and ashamed. Please someone, anyone help me. Also I'm very sad about what Raul wrote. Don't know how to cope with that.

[direstraits]

your sig. says you dropped from 4 mgs. Prozac to 0.8,that's a big drop,much more than 10% that's recommended here.

maybe you should go back up and go slower...3.6 would be 10% of 4 mgs.

 

they also recommend going slower at the lower doses..you went from 4 mgs. to 0.8 in 2 mos. that's a fastdrop...hopefully a mod. will advise you here.

[bubble]

Hello Naturegirl,

 

Direstraights is very right with her observations. 

 

And you also had a very similar observation a while ago:

 

I was hoping that since Prozac has such a long half life, and I have only been on it a bit over 2 months, and only at 5 mg at the highest, that I would be able to get off it a little faster, before my body becomes too dependent on it....Maybe that line line of thinking is dangerous?

 

 

There was also some more dangerous lines of thinking:

 

 

Hi Fresh,
I am no worse off since my last dosage reduction. I've had the fibromyalgia like symptoms in windows and waves since discontinuing effexor 17 months ago. I had a break from Jan till April 2015 and was doing really well, then developed severe, relentless anxiety out of the blue and had to take clonazepam and prozac. Now that I'm tapering prozac, the fibromyalgia is back. So maybe it's due to prozac withdrawal? I'm reluctant to slow the prozac taper, as in my experience a slow taper alleviates acute withdrawal symptoms but not protracted withdrawal. So, if I'm going to suffer regardless, I may as well get the ball rolling. I truly feel like this is toxic poison and need to get it out of my body asap as long as acute withdrawal doesn't appear. I guess I will just continue with one day at a time and pray the fibromyalgia resolves eventually, as its quite debilitating.

 

 

From looking at your signature, no taper you did could be described as slow. The only result of your rushed tapers has been that you ended on more drugs. (Luckily you managed so far to avoid all the drugs that your psychiatrist was trying to put you on...)

 

I'm afraid you are managing this whole business very badly. It was great that at one point you felt stable on Prozac but instead of allowing your CNS to recover and heal, you again started rushing the taper. I think it's a mistake to look at individual drugs. Prozac obliviously took on the role that Effexor had so it would allow your brain to regrow after all the years of various ADs. 

 

If we don't respect the speed at which our CNS can heal, the whole process will just take longer not to mention often debilitating suffering. 

 

This updosing thing is always tricky and given the neck breaking speed of your tapering it's hard to say what would be a good dose to go back to.

 

What worries me most is your combination to rush tapers and then wanting to throw drugs at the symptoms. That's a recipe for disaster

 

Going up to 1 mg maybe (probably even more) and holding for months focusing on healing rather than getting the drug out of the system.

 

Best,

Bubble

[LoveandLight]

So sorry Naturegirl this is a tough journey, isn't it? I also hope Raul is alright. But as bubble said (and I am a fine one to talk if you see the mess I've made lol), that we have to respect the time this takes. It is very hard on people around us but it's very hard on us. I think in this culture we are taught that we need to pull ourselves together, be strong, which, I for one, is how I ended up in this terrible predicament in this first place. Also it's very hard for people who have never experienced anything like this to understand the nature of this..

 

Hope you manage to find stability. Hugs x

[naturegirl]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Somehow I survived another day at work on no sleep feeling absolutely horrid. Tomorrow I will updose to 1.2 mg prozac. Who knows if that will make a difference or not, or how long it will take. I rushed the prozac taper because I never felt it was doing anything benificial for me. Apparently it was doing enough that removing it quickly caused withdrawals. Tonight I will take a clonazepam. I know, I feel terribly guilty about it, but I just need a break. I don't want to end up in the hospital or cause any more frustration to my family members. I tend to call them and ask for help when things are really bad, and they have no idea what to do with me (not that they should). Hoping for a better night, and day tomorrow. I am going to work to remain more positive. Thank you all for your helpful words.

[pug]

naturegirl,

 

I continue to send hope and healing your way and wishes for relief.  Do you read success and recovery stories?  They have been helping me stay afloat and hopeful during this process and I highly recommend them.  Knowing that this process is going to end and that we will recover can go a long way on the bad days.  These folks continue to say that we all recover, it just takes time.  And when I consider that, I feel hope.

 

Here is a link to a great recovery story resource: 

 

https://benzowithdrawalhelp.com/wp-content/uploads/Benzo-success-stories-rev-2.pdf

 

​

[naturegirl]

I am really struggling with getting decent sleep. It's not that I don't sleep at all... I do. It's just a very light, restless sleep with constant dreaming, tossing and turning, and frequent waking. When morning comes I am exhausted, and my neck and back ache terribly from the nighttime acrobatics and lack of relaxation. I'm already doing all the sleep hygiene stuff and exercising daily, no caffeine. The only decent nights of sleep I've had in the past 3 months have been the two nights I took a clonazepam pill. I know that's not the answer. Basically it feels like the part of my brain that allows total relaxation and deep sleep is broken. So, is there any hope for this to improve? There are very few success stories on the site I've noticed. Even those with sun symbols by their name are writing of constant struggle. Just don't know how to have faith that normalcy will eventually be restored.

[Altostrata]

See

Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

I find magnesium glycinate, glycine, and taurine to be very helpful.

[Fresh]

Take a look in the Success Stories section for success stories. The sun symbols are for people who are off meds (or almost there) and 

recovering as they go.

[naturegirl]

Has anyone had this symptom, and does it ever resolve? I am am 18 months off effexor, and currently down to 0.8 mg prozac. My sleep is tortured. It is very light and restless. I toss and turn and contort my body into strange positions, and hold my muscles tighter than I ever realized one could do in their sleep. I also wake up, wide awake, at between 1 and 3 am every single night. I'm awake anywhere from 20 minutes to 3 hours. Sometimes I never get back to sleep. As a result of all this I wake with severe, debilitating neck, head, and back pain. Even pain between my ribs. Red, burning eyes. Is this withdrawal? How long can it possibly last? I had a bout of it last fall that resolved after 2 months. I have had this current bout 3 months. Is this fibromyalgia? Should I have a sleep study done? The sleep problem varies in severity, but my mental state/stress level (which has been good overall) seems to have no connection to how bad the night is. I'm not sure how much longer I can put up with this. Thanks so much for your input.

[naturegirl]

Is there anyone out there that can give some advice? I again only slept 2 hrs and awoke to a pounding heart and racing thoughts. This feels like a night terror. I am so weak and in pain from lack of sleep. It's getting worse over time, not better. Please if anyone can comment I would really appreciate it.

[Nomoreheadmeds]

Hi 'naturegirl' I can relate to what you are experiencing.It's the worst thing not getting enough sleep.I hope this eases for you soon.

[AliG]

 Hi Naturegirl,

 

I can also relate to what you're going through. If you look around, there are a lot of us, here, going through this.   It seems to be a classic "withdrawal" symptom, but also one of the hardest to get over & also "go through". It also seems to hang around for a long time, and also comes in " waves".

 

I absolutely refuse to take drugs, so I am limited, in what I can do to find any sort of " relief".  I do try "various" natural supplements etc.  Some have helped, a bit, but at the end of the day , it ( Insomnia) hangs on !!    I find , on a good day,   dissolved Magnesium  Citrate helps.   Sometimes Melatonin helps.   Currently, I'm "trialling", L- Arginine.   I honestly think , it's just " time & patience". !!   I know that probably doesn't help you that much. You're " in a hurry".   Unfortunately, this "process" can't be hurried. Patience is " key".  Sometimes " doing nothing" is the best solution.  Time heals.  This takes  some strength.  Just keep "hanging on ".

[naturegirl]

Thank you for the replies. I just don't know how much more of this I can take. After over a year of this, my strength is crumbling. I thought I could do it but I'm not so sure anymore

[AliG]

Of course you can !!   Gather that strength !       Ali.

[freespirit]

Sorry that sleep is so elusive nature girl....what things have you tried? What kind of self-care are you doing these days?

 

As Ali says, many of us have struggled with this symptom. I practice meditation of some form when I wake up...most of the time, I'm able to fall back to sleep. On good nights, I sleep better than I have most of my life...change of season seems to make things more unsettled for me around rest..but am slowly learning to be patient about it and not get angry when I'm awake in the middle of the night.

 

It's often hard to know whether it's best to try something like a supplement, or just wait it out.

[naturegirl]

Hi Everyone,

 

I have severe fibromyalgia symptoms and have had them off and on ever since I did a slow taper off effexor, with my last dose 19 months ago. Never had them before that. I currently take 0.6 mg prozac, slow wean down from 5 mg. One of the main fibromyalgia symptoms is severe eye pain (red, burning eyes that no eye drop has ever soothed). Also severe lack of sleep. I am suffering greatly and wondering how long it is wise to keep hanging onto the hope that this could resolve. I have suffered ever since I stopped the effexor, and while I was improving awhile back, I stopped improving and have actually worsened a lot. I want to be med free and have a baby, but the lack of sleep and constant pain is becoming too much. I worry that even if I became pregnant and made it through to the delivery, my pain and fatigue would be too much to be a proper mother. How much longer does everyone suggest I give this before deciding hey- while not ideal, maybe meds are indicated in my case. I do believe the fibromyalgia was triggered by the med and/or withdrawal, but being without doesn't seem to be resolving the problem. Please, I really appreciate your opinions. Thank-you.

[naturegirl]

I would really appreciate it if someone will respond to this message. I'm typing on my phone so sorry if it comes across as sounding short. I am off all drugs- effexor free for 19 months, free from small amount of prozac for 3 weeks. I have not slept well for about 6 months now, but lately it's been terrible, no sleep for 2 night now. If I sleep, I don't have anxiety or depression the next day (or its very minimal). If I don't sleep,I become very anxious and develop a pounding heart and within a day or two have constant suicidal thoughts. I was an anxious person before meds, but never to this degree. I am doing every single tip to promote sleep found on this site and elsewhere. The severe anxiety I have developed is affecting my husband and the rest of my family terribly. I need this to stop, it has gone on long enough. I fear I will harm myself if it doesn't stop soon. Please if anyone has advice for me, I really need support right now. Maybe it's worth it to fry my brain with meds, to at least stop hurting my family? I've taken so much me time, but I'm just not getting better. I eat healthy and exercise, but none of these good things I do seem to make a difference.

[Fresh]

Hi naturegirl ,    have things gotten better or worse since you stopped prozac 3 weeks ago?

[naturegirl]

Hi Fresh,

I havent noticed any change, the sleep was bad before prozac, on prozac, and now off prozac.

[clearday]

I need this to stop, it has gone on long enough. I fear I will harm myself if it doesn't stop soon. Please if anyone has advice for me, I really need support right now. Maybe it's worth it to fry my brain with meds, to at least stop hurting my family? I've taken so much me time, but I'm just not getting better. I eat healthy and exercise, but none of these good things I do seem to make a difference.

 

I could have typed the same exact thing many times during my last 21 months of protracted withdrawal.

 

It seems too many times that we're not getting better. It is a long brutal process of recovery -

 

It gets almost too hard to bear many times. 

 

I don't know what to say other than last month, and the month before that, I've felt the same way, at my wits end, in despair.

 

If more SSRI drugs were the answer, I would have gone back on many times. But for me, I know the SSRIs caused this, so I can't go back on them.

 

Those who have recovered tell us over and over that we need to just hang in there, I know you don't want to hear that right now.

 

Once you do get some good sleep, make your decisions then, with a clear head.  

 

Do what you have to do to get sleep. I've used small amounts of Xanax (.125 mg or less) to help me get through WD insomnia, and it has not affected my recovery, that is just me. Not sure how benzos affect you. 

 

I didn't think I'd get through my last few waves, but I am doing pretty good lately, and recovering a little more month by month, for sure.

[naturegirl]

Thanks for the response clearday. When I feel like this I start to lose faith in my decision to be drug free. I so wish I had a crystal ball. I just don't know if I can get back to me ever again. It's been so long since I've felt consistently good. I still don't know what I'm going to do. But your message made me feel calmer, so thanks. My doctor highly recommends neuro or biofeedback therapy. Has anyone tried this? It's very expensive and I fear its just a way for someone to make money off of vulnerable people (I've become quite cynical throughout this process), but it sounds promising and I may give it a try.