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☼ Skyler, the benzo-Lyrica connection


Skyler

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Hi Alex, I decided to fold. No more tries until Aug 5. Then I'm 2 months beyond benzo freedom day. The recommended wait time for another psychotropic taper is 6 months out, and mine will end June 3, but I think a trial run in August would be okay as it's the first 6 weeks post taper that are most critical.

 

My ears are still ringing this morning from the accidental mis step on Friday night. Enuf.. that is my warning. I could be in trouble if I try again. Alex is correct in thinking this is aggravated by the benzo taper. The tail end is the most precarious, and I have no doubt that I'm hyper sensitive as a result (just now had a tinnitus window.. the bells will stop soon. YES!). Coming to this decision has been very difficult.. as you know.

 

I am now on 1.25 mgs of diazepam, down from 4 mgs of clonazepam (equivalent of 80 mgs d.) in July 2010. That is when I started to taper, at the diazepam equivalent of 80 mgs. I had not been on that high a dose for long. I was working a swing shift, and tried to make up for the lack of sleep by taking more Klonopin. This actually may have been a good move, because it led me to the TRAP forum. I was originally put on in 1989 because of RLS developed as an iatragenic effect of imiprimine. What do I recommend? I'd like to see benzodiazepines completely taken off the market, or designated for use in a hospital setting only.

 

How long have you been holding, and what happened that led to this? What Benzo Board.. will be in my next installment. Ran out of time.. need to do real world stuff! :D

 

Thanks for your question,

Schuyler

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Hokay Benzo Forums

 

For Regular Tapering..

 

Benzo Buddies.. there are several other forums available, but I have heard negative things about them. TRAP was a good choice, but closed several months back. TRAP was different from BB in that they were more structured.

 

For Micro Tapering

 

Benzo Detox Recovery.. my info on them is not extensive, but I've had several good anecdotal stories.

 

Benzo Buddies.. there is a Liquid Valium Thread covering Micro Tapering that is active at present. The volunteer is self appointed, but she has had good results from the people she has been assisting.

 

Micro Tapering can be used to come down precipitously thereby building up lag time. In the step wise reduction approach, there is often a warning when symptoms start to come into play. For example, on a 14 day cut cycle, there might be a 4 day period created by the half life wherein symptoms are more pronounced. Because of this, I recommend staying within the 10% cut for each drop time frame, and using the micro taper to smooth out the process as opposed to shortening.

 

BAT - Battle Against Tranquilizers

 

Based in the UK. They have a hot line and if you have enough patience to get through their hold and call back system, you can talk with someone on the phone.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Schuyler,

You were put on Klonopin for RLS secondary to imipramine. I was put on Klonopin for bruxism/TMJ (SEVERE- contributed to permanent disability) in 1990s after starting Zoloft.

Now Requip, etc. are used for RLS. They theoretically work with dopamine which seems counterintuitive to me (dopamine *seems* like it would worsen RLS b/c it *seems* to be associated with activating).

I tried to avoid neurotransmitter babble, but this jumped out at me.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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I am recognizing many parkinsonian symptoms/movement disorders in both myself and husband and know they are related to drugs. I just flashed on a time in the 90s when we were in line at an airport and a woman walked up to my husband and asked if he had Tourettes. He was twitching so badly that a stranger noticed. It's mostly repetitive arm jerks and relatively harmless although knowing that SS/NRI use is associated with Parkinson's Disease is disturbing. Angering.

Sorry - just wanted to clarify my train of thought.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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Schuyler,

You were put on Klonopin for RLS secondary to imipramine. I was put on Klonopin for bruxism/TMJ (SEVERE- contributed to permanent disability) in 1990s after starting Zoloft.

Now Requip, etc. are used for RLS. They theoretically work with dopamine which seems counterintuitive to me (dopamine *seems* like it would worsen RLS b/c it *seems* to be associated with activating).

I tried to avoid neurotransmitter babble, but this jumped out at me.

 

Hi Barb.. you were clear! Partially because I've been there. I'm not sure how Requip works on dopamine, but they are a much better choice than benzos! When I was put on the Merry Go Round in 1989, I was given a choice as to the Requip predecessor or Klonopin, sigh, like I knew.

 

I forgot to mention I was also put on for myoclonus of 30 years standing, it has not yet reoccurred and I'm crossing my fingers. Prior to being medicated with klonopin for this, I was on dilantin. Anyhow.. are you taking Requip now? And you mention a neurotransmitter bubble.. can you describe this? I started to read your intro thread but got side tracked. :o

 

Schuyler

 

PS.. I'm sorry to hear of the disabling issues you have, big time bummer. What are you taking for TMJ/bruxism now?

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Schuyler,

Sorry - by 'neurotransmitter babble' I meant discussing here on forum which neurotransmitters are supposedly responsible for this or that effect (intended or adverse). I think that's where the trouble began - "serotonin is the 'feelgood neurotransmitter' etc". I have an incredible amount of anger about all of the drugs - SS/NRIs, most APs, mood stabilizers - that were tried and c/t'd for my 'depression' which was mostly lethargy and anergia but got much worse over the years of meds (and life). It appears now that my original problem was likely due to endocrine problems that run rampant in my family but only discovering recently.

 

I haven't been diagnosed with RLS as it only appeared periodically, mostly during early withdrawal. I'm still on Klonopin. What really helped my mood after years of SS/NRIs and trials of APs was Vyvanse (just reporting- not suggesting)- other ADHD drugs didnt help and produced a crash - it's also dopaminergic although I don't know how it differs from Requip or RLS and Parkinson's drugs aside from reputation as a stimulant. It didn't energized me but allowed me to stop the negative rumination. I don't know - is that a form of ADD? Rhetorical question. It seems that one has to progress to a neurologic disorder before being treated appropriately.

 

The morning anger and negativity is overwhelming. Alot of life issues are hitting me now, also.

Sorry to sidetrack your thread.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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I think that's where the trouble began - "serotonin is the 'feelgood neurotransmitter' etc". I have an incredible amount of anger about all of the drugs It appears now that my original problem was likely due to endocrine problems that run rampant in my family but only discovering recently.

It's sure easier for Docs to prescribe a feel good pill than to listen. I'm glad they seem on the right track for you now. Sorry it's all been such a dreadful odyssey.

 

I haven't been diagnosed with RLS as it only appeared periodically, mostly during early withdrawal. I'm still on Klonopin. Vyvanse allowed me to stop the negative rumination.

The morning anger and negativity is overwhelming. Alot of life issues are hitting me now, also.

Sorry to sidetrack your thread.

 

I have RLS legs associated with withdrawal, and hope I can come off when I'm finished tapering.. whenever that might be. I can't tolerate many other drugs, etc. and antihistamines make me nuts.. along with Splenda.. you name it. It it can cause RLS, I get them.

 

How much klonopin are you on?.. Is that on your 'hit list'? Glad Vyvanse is helping with the non stop preoccupations, those are miserable. Hope you get positive news about your disability status.

 

Schuyler

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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How much klonopin are you on?.. Is that on your 'hit list'? Glad Vyvanse is helping with the non stop preoccupations, those are miserable. Hope you get positive news about your disability status.

 

Schuyler

 

1 mg Klonopin qhs. I will have to be in a much more stable place in life with support before I think of tackling that one. Two people in withdrawal in one house with no other support is a very bad idea. :(

 

I haven't had Vyvanse in quite awhile. Hoping that the estrogen and Armour thyroid will help, but not seeing that happen.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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1 mg Klonopin qhs. I will have to be in a much more stable place in life with support before I think of tackling that one. Two people in withdrawal in one house with no other support is a very bad idea. :(

There are a number of factors that would point to a troublesome withdrawal, but with a very careful taper you do not necessarily to have withdrawal symptoms.

 

I haven't had Vyvanse in quite awhile. Hoping that the estrogen and Armour thyroid will help, but not seeing that happen.

 

I hope the estrogen does as well. Problem with Vyvanse is it's a psychotropic, and according to what Whitaker says about stimulants.. they follow the same pattern other psychotropics.. help some at the getgo but then cause the same problems that they originally treated. I'm not sure this would be true for troublesome thoughts, but it sounds like the effect would not last for as long as you would like.

 

Schuyler

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Hi Schuyler!

 

I'm tapering benzos and gabapentin (Neurontin) which is supposedly closely related to Lyrica. (I think they invented Lyrica when the patent ran out on Neurontin--it's a chemical variant.)

 

I think your plan to restabilize on 300 mg of Lyrica and then microtaper is a good one. I definitely understand about the memory issues...wait, what memory issues? I don't remember any memory issues...you say we had a two-hour conversation about that yesterday? I don't remember yesterday.

 

:-)

 

Anyway, I want to say a couple of things: Yes, benzo withdrawal and Neurontin withdrawal work together. It's not like they're two separate things. Actually, all psych meds interact, even from different families. But benzos and Neurontin (hence probably Lyrica) interact heavily. I have noticed this effect much more at lower doses. I am now down to the last few milligrams of Neurontin and having to go very slowly.

 

I do think you can taper them together but you will need to slow down the benzo taper if you're going to be tapering Lyrica at the same time. Sorry, I know nobody wants to hear that, but it's just how it is; you can't taper two meds together and expect to go as fast as you would with just one. The Lyrica taper will exacerbate the benzo withdrawal effects and the benzo taper will exacerbate the Lyrica withdrawal effects.

 

The good news is, if you do taper them together, even though you're going more slowly you will probably get relief from the effects of both of them on your memory. (Benzos are hard on memory too although nothing like what gabapentin and Lyrica can do!)

 

Neurontin and Lyrica are both freely soluble in water so can be easily liquid titrated in as small of increments as you want. Very easy to microtaper.

 

Hang in there, be patient, you'll get there!

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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Also: If you ever do decide to come off the RLS medication, take a look at weighted blankets as a therapeutic option. OTs use them for various things, some of us in benzo w/d find them helpful, and apparently people are finding them helpful for RLS as well.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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Also: If you ever do decide to come off the RLS medication, take a look at weighted blankets as a therapeutic option. OTs use them for various things, some of us in benzo w/d find them helpful, and apparently people are finding them helpful for RLS as well.

 

I will check on weighted blankets.. thanks.

 

I think your plan to restabilize on 300 mg of Lyrica and then microtaper is a good one. I definitely understand about the memory issues...wait, what memory issues? I don't remember any memory issues...you say we had a two-hour conversation about that yesterday? I don't remember yesterday.

I just need to get stabilized on Lyrica.. groan. Right now it's a challenge to up the time I take the capsule from 11PM to 10PM. I've been slowly shifting for the last 4 days.. guess it's equivalent to a 15mg shift? My ears are still going nuts.. a small misstep 4 days back, when I took 300 mgs at hs instead of 150 mgs had not so good repercussions.

 

Anyway, I want to say a couple of things: Yes, benzo withdrawal and Neurontin withdrawal work together. It's not like they're two separate things. Actually, all psych meds interact, even from different families. But benzos and Neurontin (hence probably Lyrica) interact heavily. I have noticed this effect much more at lower doses. I am now down to the last few milligrams of Neurontin and having to go very slowly.

Yes they do, hand and glove it would seem. I made the decision to taper one at a time because I'm so far down on the diazepam dose.. at the 1.25 mgs mark. I think tapering both would have been a good option were I on a higher dose of benzos. Now I need to decide whether to hold an extra week before the next diazepam cut. My system is used to diazepam cuts every 2 weeks, pronto, but my ears are making me feel miserable, and scaring me more the longer the cacophony lasts. I am also having a lot of insomnia, which is new for me. I can't tell if it'a a side effect from Lyrica, or benzo withdrawal. ARGH! :angry:

 

Thanks much for your thoughtful response,

Schuyler

 

PS.. OHHHH, I see my mistake. I shifted both the morning and nighttime doses. I should just have done the nighttime. Oh man, how many ways can I find to SCREW UP! If I were not trying so hard to be careful, I would have made fewer mistakes. So much for the constructive effect of anxiety. Hokay, so I need to shift the morning dose back to 11AM, and leave the one at night at 10PM to avoid a dose change. !@#$%.. Or maybe I should leave as is for now and ride it out. quibble quibble quibble

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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I want to apologize for whining.. fortunately, or otherwise, my cowardice has kept my on track for a smooth taper off clonozepam, and the trajectory for Lyrica, at least as regards to choices is the same, tinnitis.. but ouch, I am so spoiled when compared to others. I just lucked onto one of the best coaches TRAP had to offer, and was coddled for the first year (hence my blind spot with tol. w..). I just looked up the following, and ouch.

 

whine (hwn, wn)

v. whined, whin·ing, whines

v.intr.

1. To utter a plaintive, high-pitched, protracted sound, as in pain, fear, supplication, or complaint.

2. To complain or protest in a childish fashion.

3. To produce a sustained noise of relatively high pitch: jet engines whining.

v.tr.

To utter with a whine.

n.

1. The act of whining.

2. A whining sound.

3. A complaint uttered in a plaintive tone.

[Middle English whinen, from Old English hwnan, to make a whizzing sound.]

whiner n.

whining·ly adv.

whiny, whiney adj.

 

Yikessssssss. Self flagellation. I'll try to separate the outcome (judicious decisions) from the input (FEAR).. :o

 

I read the narratives of the incredible forbearance and am humbled. I have no idea how I'd respond. There is an amazing amount of courage displayed on this Board.

 

Schuyler

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Yup - I live with one of them - it's a painful reminder - although I do amuse myself with it at times -

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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Yup - I live with one of them - it's a painful reminder - although I do amuse myself with it at times -

 

You live with one of them? They have the biggest problem of all, they think they know when they don't. It's harder to unlearn than to learn.

 

Schuyler

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Husband is an MD - 'tis been a challenging year of withdrawal w/essentially no support - he's starting to 'get it' -

Probably the toughest aspect is that friends/family automatically assume "the doctor knows best" and I'm in good care and probably exaggerating what I'm going through -

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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Husband is an MD - 'tis been a challenging year of withdrawal w/essentially no support - he's starting to 'get it' -

Probably the toughest aspect is that friends/family automatically assume "the doctor knows best" and I'm in good care and probably exaggerating what I'm going through -

 

OUCH

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Yep - I wish you could by a fly on the wall -

Perhaps a webcam…reality show…there has to be some way to profit from the incessant absurdity ;)

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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The following was moved from the string on Tinnitus because it has become taper specific.. I'm not sure if this belongs here or in the Taper section? I parked it here pending feedback. :unsure:

 

 

If taking a dose ramps up symptoms, try decreasing the dose slightly, perhaps to 140mg.

 

Unfortunately, taking the dose down also ramps them up.. ARGH. The noise was starting to subside but given it still tended to go up, albeit faintly, about 3 hours after dosing, it seemed like a good idea to try cutting back. The noise, while still faint, is getting worse. I'm 5 BID doses into 280 mgs. .. thing is there was something of a glitch. Last night I was suspicious of the amount of fluid still in the pill bottle I use for mixing.. there were close to 2 mls too much left, 4 mls total instead of 2. So I figure the reduction was close to 130 mls than 140.

 

The syringe has a plunger with a rounded plunger head, so it takes great care to get the correct amount... are there any recommended syringes?

 

Anyhow, for present, I'm considering updosing back to 300 mgs, but as the noise is not as bad as it was the last couple of weeks, I'm thinking it best to hold for another day? I really don't want to lost the cut.

 

Also, I'm going to slow on the diasepam taper. Sunday I'm scheduled to hit 1 mg of diazepam, but I'm going to cut to 1.10 mgs, then take a .10 mg cut every week (or .75 mgs). This because insomnia is ramping up. This was not a factor previously, but now I'm only averaging 4hrs of sleep a nite. Yick. So I'm going to slow.

 

Thanks for reading,

Schuyler

 

PS.. the bells and whistles are getting rather unpleasant and constant again.. but the dose issue of the last day, possibly two days has been corrected. To hold or updose, that is the question... sigh, the noise had almost vanished and were no longer constant.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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If taking a dose ramps up symptoms, try decreasing the dose slightly, perhaps to 140mg.

 

Unfortunately, taking the dose down also ramps them up.. ARGH. The noise was starting to subside but given it still tended to go up, albeit faintly, about 3 hours after dosing, it seemed like a good idea to try cutting back. The noise, while still faint, is getting worse. I'm 5 BID doses into 280 mgs. .. thing is there was something of a glitch. Last night I was suspicious of the amount of fluid still in the pill bottle I use for mixing.. there were close to 2 mls too much left, 4 mls total instead of 2. So I figure the reduction was close to 130 mls than 140.

 

The syringe has a plunger with a rounded plunger head, so it takes great care to get the correct amount... are there any recommended syringes?

 

Anyhow, for present, I'm considering updosing back to 300 mgs, but as the noise is not as bad as it was the last couple of weeks, I'm thinking it best to hold for another day? I really don't want to lost the cut.

 

Also, I'm going to slow on the diasepam taper. Sunday I'm scheduled to hit 1 mg of diazepam, but I'm going to cut to 1.10 mgs, then take a .10 mg cut every week (or .75 mgs). This because insomnia is ramping up. This was not a factor previously, but now I'm only averaging 4hrs of sleep a nite. Yick. So I'm going to slow.

 

This is soooo much fun

Schuyler

 

PS.. I just up dosed back to 300 mgs. The noise devolved into a high pitched frequency that is driving me nuts. This noise bit is something else. But only in my left ear.. mono sound.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Ach.. I'm still acting like the half life of Lyrica is the same as that of diazepam, and being more of my own enemy than the drug is. Lyrica is 6 hours, while diazepam is 100. Yesterday I went back up to 300 mgs from 280 and my ears are going bonkers again. Seems like everything I did right with the diazepam taper, I'm doing wrong with Lyrica.

 

I have a huge stressor in my life.. probably the worst I've ever gone encountered, and I'm screwing this taper up because of it. I'm not sure I can do two tapers and the 'stressor' at the same time.. it is just not working. My weight got royally screwed up with Lyrica, I went from 130 lbs to 190, and I'm back to 140 lbs. (I gained and lost this while on Lyrica, showing will power not in evidence here; Lyrica gives one an incredible desire for high cal munchies, and at present I'm looking at crackers and nut butter with an ominous craven delight), so this and other side effects more troubling IMHO, are dictating my desire to come off.

 

But I can't keep screwing around. I would probably be down to 230 mgs at this point, but keep getting nervous, and making taper choices based on subjective feelings as opposed to facts.

 

So, I'm back to 280 mgs of L (was at this level longer), and need to stay there regardless of how I feel. Any support gratefully accepted. I keep getting fixated on what I'm feeling from moment to moment, and losing the larger taper picture, like what may be happening in a few hours. DUH!

 

Schuyler

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Schuyler,

 

Your writing makes me laugh! But I'm sorry you're dealing with Stressor. That's a vicious circle I'm familiar with. Is it anything you'd like to share? I've dumped and vented my struggles here (ad nauseum, I'm sure). Everyone has been incredibly supportive and shared their own similar struggles and insights.

 

When I took Zyprexa for a very short time (for headaches, I believe), I couldn't shovel the food in fast enough. I remember being at a party and friend who is a psychiatrist was taking it for stuttering (he's a researcher). We were parked at food table all night, marveling at the indescribable hunger caused by that nasty drug. When i hear doctors suggest 'lifetyle management' to overcome it, I get so angry. They REALLY need to take it and see how well they can control their lifestyle.

I understand your need to get off of it for that reason alone.

 

I haven't dealt with tinnitus, but it sounds terrible (pun unintended).

 

Hugs,

Barb

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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Now I understand... when there are withdrawal symptoms from diazepam, I get them in a 3 to 5 day widow in the 2 week cut cycle I'm on. (was 5% cut for 2 weeks until I dropped below 5 mgs d).

 

By contrast with Lyrica, and I can time this by the clock.. between 2 hrs 15 and 2 hrs 30 mins the sounds in my ears change in intensity and quality. Then the same happens another 8 hrs into the BID dosing cycle. It's like a switch was thrown. This seems very weird and puts me on edge all the time. It's like my body is getting a special bulletin. It's sorta like riding a bumpy road.

 

Does anyone else have the same experience with any of the drugs they are on?

Schuyler

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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S, are you keeping notes about your taper? That will help, esp. during a time with so many distractions.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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S, are you keeping notes about your taper? That will help, esp. during a time with so many distractions.

 

I just got it out again.. had mountains to do. Now it's just K2.. but no other peaks. :o

 

Schuyler

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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I didn't know about Lyrica being so hard to get off it and that it is prescribed in such a large dose....kuddos to you for having the strength to get off both meds.

 

Best Regards

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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I didn't know about Lyrica being so hard to get off it and that it is prescribed in such a large dose....kuddos to you for having the strength to get off both meds.

 

Best Regards

 

LOL Nikki.. kudos for foolishness or desperation, I'm not sure which. Thanks for your kind thoughts.

 

Alto.. since I first signed on last year, I almost finished my benzo taper, and I'm just now starting to taper off Lyrica. Can the name of this thread be changed to something more descriptive like.. ohhh, huge thinking. The BenzoLyrica Connection? Thanks whatever you decide! :)

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Done.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Done.

 

THANK YOU :wub:

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Schuyler,

 

Your writing makes me laugh! But I'm sorry you're dealing with Stressor. That's a vicious circle I'm familiar with. Is it anything you'd like to share? I've dumped and vented my struggles here (ad nauseum, I'm sure). Everyone has been incredibly supportive and shared their own similar struggles and insights.

 

I've been thinking about how to answer your question since reading. Not so easy! In movie world there are metaphorical scenes wherein we face our true selves. The first 3 are from when Luke meets Yoda in the Star Wars Trilogy, the third is from Dune Messiah.

 

 

Only what you take with you.

 

 

Fear is the mind killer.

 

I have gotten to the point where I can identify the source of my fear.. now the dots are linked. Now I go nowhere, do nothing, without looking directly at me. I still try to walk away, but on leaving the cave, turn around an walk right back in. Pretty soon I won't be leaving the cave or box at all. Fear spills over everywhere.. even into the Lyrica taper. There is no peace.

 

Schuyler

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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I've been thinking about fear a lot.

 

I feel like my problems boil down to it, though that's a drastic simplification. I've read of people having success doing hardcore loads of therapy, as described in Norman Doidge's book on neuroplasticity and I wonder if doing, say, the right CBT exercises (constructed properly) in massive amount can cause major rejuninative effects. These techniques are the ones he claims allows stroke patients to recover what were once thought lost function.

 

I've been too exhausted to try to work on myself in this way.

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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I've been thinking about fear a lot.

 

I feel like my problems boil down to it, though that's a drastic simplification. I've read of people having success doing hardcore loads of therapy, as described in Norman Doidge's book on neuroplasticity and I wonder if doing, say, the right CBT exercises (constructed properly) in massive amount can cause major rejuninative effects. These techniques are the ones he claims allows stroke patients to recover what were once thought lost function.

 

I've been too exhausted to try to work on myself in this way.

 

Ouch, I hope my post did not appear to advocate CBT. I'm so not in this camp. Luke Skywalker has to confront his internalized father, but I guess the video from Dune could be so construed.

 

Can CBT work? Yes.. but it's exceedingly difficult.. I think akin to learning to meditate effectively. It takes years to become really good. IMHO, most interventions cover up symptoms that only reemerge later in another guise. CBT can be very frustrating because a set of 'rational thoughts' are superimposed for the purpose of replacing those that are dysfunctional. The purpose is to make new neuronal connections, but until those connections are made, the introduced cognitions are ego alien.

 

Cbtvspsychodynamic is good site for comparing psychodynamic and CBT interventions. The strengths and weaknesses of each are summarized in a respectful tone. S

 

Pet peeve.. people who stop you in the midst of venting to say take a deep breath. Mindfulness run amok.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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EXCELLENT info, Schuyler!

"...some people feels CBT attempts to talk them out of their emotions." (paraphrasing) BINGO!! I do a very good job of talking myself out of my emotions. I need to dig to find them and identify whatever shield of rationalization or defense I've thrown up to deflect the pain, anger, etc. CBT is somewhat like antidepressants in that it doesn't get to the root of the problem. IMHO!

 

Also, CBT is pushed because it is short term and relatively cost-effective. I believe it was a study done by Kaiser that proclaimed it the gold standard of therapy. No offense meant to anyone who uses this and finds it effective. It just didn't address my issues that I began covering up from a young age.

 

I've heard that Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT) is somewhat of a hybrid. Does anyone have experience with that?

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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Great discussion about CBT vs other therapy modes. How about starting a topic in Symptoms so others will be able to find it?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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OMG.. Here I go AGAIN! My ears are incredibly sensitive (tinnitus) to the wrong dose of lyrica, even by 10 mgs off.. and now, I have 35 mls left instead of 20 mls. I'm so danged tired (fibro fog), I put a stamp on the wrong side of the envelope, fixed it, and then sealed the envelope without the check. Immediately fixed but still.. ARGH.

 

Now all I need is trying to figure out if I took too little this morning or used too much to dilute. I stood in very good light when doing everything, and still this happens. I'm going to need to mix things up at this time of the day as I seem not to be on top of it in the AM, but Duh, I don't feel exactly so at this time either. And the ringing is finally subsiding, but being off by as much as this can upset the proverbial apple cart.

 

I also need to get 10cc syringes that are not amber, too easy to misread them. The freebies CVS gives out are less than stellar.

 

Signed, SAD SACK :wacko:

Thanks any who read this harrowing narrative! The life and times of :ph34r: btw, is this supposed to be a Ninja? <chuckling>

 

PS Hokay.. decision made. I took the extra ml. So take that fatigue.. the best guess.

 

PPS.. I usually manage time better so I don't get so danged wasted with fatigue, but I just gave a week to the cause, the IRS!

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Veterinarians carry oral syringes, to treat animals. Buy a few from a vet. Shouldn't be more than 10 cents-25 cents each.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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