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☼ Skyler, the benzo-Lyrica connection


Skyler

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Veterinarians carry oral syringes, to treat animals. Buy a few from a vet. Shouldn't be more than 10 cents-25 cents each.

 

Picked up syringes at the vets'. It's easier to draw up the solution (the arthritis in my hands makes this impt... it's early onset and they already look like the trunks of gnarled oak trees), and reading the line is much improved without the danged amber coloring. Oh.. I also put clear nail polish on them so the markings don't smudge.

 

"Pregabalin is well absorbed after oral administration, is eliminated largely by renal excretion, and has an elimination half-life of about 6 hours. The following taken from Pfizer's prescribing info.

 

Absorption and Distribution

Following oral administration of LYRICA capsules under fasting conditions, peak plasma

concentrations occur within 1.5 hours. Pregabalin oral bioavailability is ≥90% and is independent of dose. Following single- (25 to 300 mg) and multiple- dose (75 to 900 mg/day) administration, maximum plasma concentrations (Cmax) and area under the plasma concentration-time curve (AUC) values increase linearly. Following repeated administration, steady state is achieved within 24 to 48 hours. Multiple-dose pharmacokinetics can be predicted from single-dose data. The rate of pregabalin absorption is decreased when given with food, resulting in a decrease in Cmax of approximately 25% to 30% and an increase in Tmax to approximately 3 hours. However, administration of pregabalin with food has no clinically relevant effect on the total absorption of pregabalin. Therefore, pregabalin can be taken with or without food."

 

I disagree somewhat with their statement that taking Lyrica with or without food does not matter. I have been wondering why there were changes in tinnitus levels at different times after dosing (ranging from 1.5 to 3 hrs). Mystery solved. When I have food with Lyrica, the more immediate effects on tinnitus show up later. For example, last night I took Lyrica with food.. and 3.5 hours later, the tinnitus got worse after a day that was almost free of bells and whistles.

 

When the tinnitus is starting to extinguish, the times for onset and half life come into relief. And the syringe problem came very much into view...Seems that with the CVS syringes I was using, because drawing up the liquid took me so long, the doses were not being evenly divided over the course of the day. So I got less at 8AM, more at 8PM. Now I'm taking the precaution of drawing up both doses at the same time, and alternating the AM and PM syringes to offset any settling of the tiny particles of lyrica in the suspension. What a hassle!.. but worth it for now.

 

 

Note.. I mix no more than one days' water suspension at a time because of errors I've fond. When I get better, I'll do 2 to 5 days. One step at a time, eh? :)

 

Thanks Alto.. :wub::wub: There is no way I could be coming off this stuff without you. Even getting down to 280 mgs (which in reality is probably 270 mgs or a tad more, as some is lost while preparing the solution no matter how careful, and this is the first cut) would have been daunting. It appears I was developing tinnitus as a side effect as well as a withdrawal symptom. Argh.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Good to hear you're getting a handle on it!

 

I found the solution very easy to mix up. As I recall, using a 10mL oral syringe, I measured lukewarm water into a medicine bottle, then opened up a capsule over it and dropped all the powder in. Tap the empty halves of the capsule over the medicine bottle to loosen any powder clinging inside. Cap the bottle and shake gently.

 

I don't believe I lost any appreciable amount of Lyrica this way. It all fell into the medicine bottle and got caught by the water.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Good to hear you're getting a handle on it!

 

I found the solution very easy to mix up. As I recall, using a 10mL oral syringe, I measured lukewarm water into a medicine bottle, then opened up a capsule over it and dropped all the powder in. Tap the empty halves of the capsule over the medicine bottle to loosen any powder clinging inside. Cap the bottle and shake gently.

 

I don't believe I lost any appreciable amount of Lyrica this way. It all fell into the medicine bottle and got caught by the water.

 

I still think a tiny amount sticks to the inside of the capsule, etc. But perhaps not. Outside of difficulty reading the syringes, I was getting slammed with filling the because the bevel inside the syringe is so tight on the CVS ones, but the ones from the vet can be filled in a couple of seconds.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Not sure if this belongs in my thread, or the taper section?

 

I just cut to the final 1 mg of diazepam.. FINALLY! I was having significant insomnia (3 hrs to 5 hrs per night sleep) and tinnitus at a .25 cut every week. I recently slowed to .10 mg cuts weekly for the last two drops, and there is improvement. This coming Sunday I'm going to start taking a .02 mg cut every other day (Not the same a dosing every other day.. eeek)to get a smoother progression.

 

And as I'm finally stabilizing on Lyrica (whatever that means at this point.. my ears are still ringing though it is relatively mild), I thought to hold until Sunday, April 29. Then begin reducing .10 mls a day with 1mg to 1 ml dilution. This would come to 1 mg Lyrica a day and a 20 mg drop over 20 days, with a subsequent hold time of 7 days. If there is any hint of trouble, I could reduce for 10 days, then hold for a week and repeat going forward. I would alternate taking the 1 mg off the AM then PM dose, so they proceeded evenly.

 

How does the above sound? I will be tapering both diazepam and lyrica at the same time, but going very slowly. :unsure:

 

Turtles Rule!

 

PS.. thanks to a certain someone who allowed me to squawk about coming off two psychotropics at once.. guess it's possible to try crawling off the benzo?

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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PS.. I think the benzo is the bigger player.. Lyrica a complication. I took another benzo cut last night, and it could be my imagination, but the noise is louder today, and I'm thinking there is a correlation.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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My response to someone on a benzo forum who is taking 1.25 mgs diazepam and just begun titrating up with Lyrica to treat fibro pain, and secondarily, benzo withdrawal issues.

 

You don't want to use drug company charts to determine safe doses of Lyrica any more than with benzos. Don't trust their info about any of the psychotropics. I'm on 300 mgs.. and Astro said this is a high dose. Side effects are dose dependent. Were I you, with what I know now.. I would not even consider taking more than 150 mgs.. and possibly not that much. Pay a visit to Surviving, join which is not a big deal, and run a few questions by Astro. She is as good seeing the larger picture as my TRAP coach Budgie was, and is at the tail end of coming off herself.. now on a cousin of Lyrica.

 

Be VERY cautious with your decision. It was trying to reduce Lyrica that awoke the sleeping benzo withdrawal dragon I avoided all the way to the 1 mg line. Even a months' trial on Lyrica may bring you to a point where you need to stay at that dose until you come off the benzo.

 

For now, I feel like I'm in the Benzo Super Bowl, at the one yard line with 5 minutes left in the game... and the ref just called a 6 month time out. In other words, it may be necessary to hold the benzo taper, and I'm still disbelieving. I may find out what tolerance withdrawal is first hand. I don't want you to join me here.

 

I know how hard to endure the burning fibro pain is.. your body feels like it is on fire.. on the other hand, go very very cautiously here. And if your pdoc suggests taking antidepressants to treat pain, don't believe it. At present all the supporting research the drug companies did is being questioned and tossed.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Update... I keep readjusting the projected diazepam taper from here on out to go slow, slower, slowest in my mind. The last cut of .10, which I thought conservative is making me CRAZY with the bells and whistles (tinnitus).

 

Yesterday I was thinking, just start reducing by .10 mgs in 10 day cycle as opposed to 7, but I'm going to need to hold for a week, maybe two (can't get my head around two weeks with no cut yet), and resume at .10 mgs cut over the course of 20 days. I may use a micro taper to come down a smidgen every day.. still thinking on this, not sure it's necessary. Maybe .02 mgs cut every 4 days would do as well.. I don't have the whole withdrawal profile, just this danged incessant ringing. That would mean 30 weeks out to benzo freedom, but if this will allow me to ditch some or, maybe all of the Lyrica (I'm NOT counting on this.. just hoping), so much the better... but I need to get rid of that first, and think I'm into a very slow benzo taper in any case. At least I can regain my sanity!

 

Most benzo taperers do not use the 10% rate at the 1 mg mark but I'm thinking this may keep me ahead of any problems with what what is referred to as tolerance withdrawal. If this very slow pace does the trick, I can start to cut on Lyrica again 2 or 3 weeks out, and just coast off the rest of the diazepam.

 

When this all started a month ago, I was in denial that the benzo withdrawal could be the prime culprit.. kept thinking that when I stabilized on Lyrica for a few weeks, it would be possible to continue on as before with diazepam. I am now thoroughly disabused of this notion.. Lyrica was a trigger, but NOT the cause.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Although the tiny reductions seem ridiculous, don't discount microtapers of .02mg or even .01mg. I reduce by these amounts myself.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Although the tiny reductions seem ridiculous, don't discount microtapers of .02mg or even .01mg. I reduce by these amounts myself.

 

Hi Astro.. I was not discounting them, but hoping this would allow me to come off Lyrica while reducing the benzo. At present there is no doubt the benzo is causing the tinnitus. I took 2 shorter hold times of 7 days each for a .10 drop, fa smaller amount than I was doing for a 2 week cut cycle (.25).. and all Hell has broken lose. Guess my system got used to the rest period with the 2 week drop cycles and did not like what I just did. ARGH. Back to the drawing board. It's going to be a 2 week hold, then onto the small MT like cuts. I thought I'd be off in June.. now I'm looking at September/October.

 

You don't think my new schedule is too aggressive do you? I really don't think I can go slower with the benzo.. dunno for sure, but this would seem reasonably conservative? Not to be confused with benign. And I'm not sure I can do Lyrica at the same time, but can only know when I try. Three side effects are crying for me to get off that stuff.

 

Thanks muchly

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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You'll have to go by the withdrawal symptoms to tell if your taper is too aggressive, and adjust accordingly. Be sure to keep notes!

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Yep - I wish you could by a fly on the wall -

Perhaps a webcam…reality show…there has to be some way to profit from the incessant absurdity ;)

 

Reality show! snort!

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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I see I already replied on this thread and then reread it part way through and replied without reading the whole thing.

 

It's the one good thing about benzo memory--you can watch the same movie over and over and it's new every time...sigh...

 

Oh well. Don't let me confuse you.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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A glass half full person - LOL

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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I have a minor eye laser procedure on Thursday. Thing is the doc wants me to be sedated because when he did the other eye a few weeks back, I was exceedingly jumpy. (a little WD agitation??.. methinks yes). Obviously a benzo is out, so my primary care prescribed Tramadol 1 to 2 tabs 37.5 mg strength. Is this likely to cause an escalation in the tinnitus? I am still symptomatic despite no cuts since April 15.

 

An aside.. I think there tinnitus before the symptoms became so obvious a month ago. A high whistling sound was present for some time but I did not realize was tinnitus. On a scale of 1 to 10, the previous would have been a 1, tinnitus is now at a 3, and at it's worst in this episode, it was a 7.

 

I'm still hoping this tinnitus episode will remit, but it could continue until the taper is complete. On the plus side, I'm doing well mixing up and taking Lyrica on time. No further cuts are planned for 1 to 2 weeks... and when I start again, it will be to micro taper both Lyrica and diazepam very cautiously. If there is further difficulty, I will have to hold diazepam.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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PS.. I'm thinking about holding diazepam for the time being, and doing a micro taper on Lyrica alone to start. The 'bells and whistles' in my ears are wearing me out. Hard getting to this place, but it would seem wise to start off and see if one drug makes things worse before doing two.

 

Yikes.. it was HARD getting that out!

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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My blog is borrinngggg Posted Imagebecause I mainly post tapering stuff. ARGH. Okay, enuf of the self flagellation. Just so you know I know.

 

My taper experience is nowhere near as dreadful as the voyages posted here, but close enough to know I'm only a misstep away from the same. Reading your narratives is humbling to say the least. Tinnitus makes this something less than a cakewalk, but for now, mercifully, it's not in the same league.

 

I just took the first cut of Lyrica since stabilizing at 280 mgs. As of today, the AM dose is 130 mgs, down from 140 (Will do same for PM), so the new dose is 260. The bells and whistles while not gone, are somewhat better (in the previous attempt to reduce, I looked for them to be completely gone). They went to 2 or 3 90 mins after taking the reduced dose, down from 5 all last night with no letup. I've been confused as to how best to proceed because it appears the tinnitus is both a withdrawal symptom AND a side effect of Lyrica. For this reason, after 'huffing and puffing' for a month, I'm holding diazepam to put Lyrica front and center.

 

For tapering, ALTO RULES! I gave her a very hard time while denying it was necessary to apply the brakes on the diazepam taper. OUCH! Posted Image

 

PS.. I took 37.5 mgs of Tramadol 90 mins ago to assess the sedating effects for tomorrow.. the bells went up and back down a couple of notches. Argh, hope I can take 2 tabs for the laser procedure. One sure develops respect for all the carange this crap can cause.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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No need to apologize, S -- you've learned something, pay it forward!

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Astro's rule of thumb about the size of taper cuts:

 

Initially, make a 10% reduction and hold there for a MONTH. It can take several weeks for withdrawal symptoms to emerge. Do that again the second month.

 

If you have very minor or no symptoms from these 2 reductions, you can try reducing by 10% every 3 weeks. Do that twice. If no problems, reduce by 10% every 2 weeks. Do that twice.

 

If no problems after 4.5 months of very gradual reduction, you may be able to reduce by 10% every week.

 

If significant withdrawal symptoms appear, go slower. Listen to your body.

 

It's best to go slowly to find out how you tolerate a reduction. Once you damage your nervous system with withdrawal symptoms, it can take a very long time to feel good again.

Just reduced to 250 mgs of Lyrica. The bells and whistles are almost gone. Hope it holds.. or, they disappear all together, now wouldn't that be swell! :P No further cuts for a bit though.. will check back first. Sure would be nice to get below the 'tinnitus' line, but trying to get there too quickly would be folly.

 

My guess is the pharmacist is right(he's really quite good), and I woke up a Lyrica side effect when I was up and down dosing in that injudicious taper attempt.. The reduction from 280 mgs to 250 (a smidgen over 10%)now that I'm stable made a big difference. I was going to hold at 260 mgs., but my ears were so much better, I wanted to see if a further 10 mgs cut would silence them even more, and sure enuf, it has. Quite a ride this has been.

 

~S

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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I'm a nervous coward and this keeps me safe. The cuts on Lyrica remind me of the benzo cuts. Symptoms just off the Richter all the way down. So far the withdrawal symptoms from Lyrica are very minor, and I'm not in any hurry to rock the boat. (A couple of nights of insomnia, some minor spasms in my feet on wakening).

 

Sigh.. ears still the same. BOTH of them... the difference in the tinnitus volume seems to be when the right ear cuts in and out. There are no more windows. It took me too long to get the hang of properly mixing Lyrica with water, and the damage is done. Gotta write it off and let it go.

 

For mixing Lyrica with water for titration..It's harder to empty the 150 mgs capsules.. so I'm using the 300 caps strength now. These would have been easier to start with as the arthritis in my hands makes manipulating the capsules harder but I did not have a script. Also the water was not warm enough to adequately dissolve Lyrica, so the AM/PM doses were unequal and aggravated the bells and whistles.

 

I am going to adapt Alto's protocol. This may still be too fast, but feels right for now, and it's a far cry from where I began on 3/22.. reducing .25 d once every two weeks, AND tapering down on Lyrica by reducing doses on alternate days, with the goal of cutting from 300mgs to 150 in a month. (OHHhhhh :o)

 

I'm planning to reduce by .10 diazepam every 4 weeks.. and staggar this with a 10% 4 week Lyrica cut cycle. This may be more doable at higher Lyrica doses than lower, and hopefully will get me by the dose of Lyrica causing appetite and memory issues. The micro taper idea is ditched for now.. too many cons... and the tiny cuts are a pain in the touchas!

 

This has been a slow evolution toward accepting the psychotropic reality we live with. Reading articles discussing hypotheses (did I get that right?) on how neurotransmitters adapt to mind altering meds has helped enormously. What seemed unreal is made more concrete. Thanks for the efforts of those who contributed.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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I'm a nervous coward and this keeps me safe. The cuts on Lyrica remind me of the benzo cuts. Symptoms just off the Richter all the way down. So far the withdrawal symptoms from Lyrica are very minor, and I'm not in any hurry to rock the boat. (A couple of nights of insomnia, some minor spasms in my feet on wakening).

 

Sigh.. ears still the same. BOTH of them... the difference in the tinnitus volume seems to be when the right ear cuts in and out. There are no more windows. It took me too long to get the hang of properly mixing Lyrica with water, and the damage is done. Gotta write it off and let it go.

 

For mixing Lyrica with water for titration..It's harder to empty the 150 mgs capsules.. so I'm using the 300 caps strength now. These would have been easier to start with as the arthritis in my hands makes manipulating the capsules harder but I did not have a script. Also the water was not warm enough to adequately dissolve Lyrica, so the AM/PM doses were unequal and aggravated the bells and whistles.

 

I am going to adapt Alto's protocol. This may still be too fast, but feels right for now, and it's a far cry from where I began on 3/22.. reducing .25 d once every two weeks, AND tapering down on Lyrica by reducing doses on alternate days, with the goal of cutting from 300mgs to 150 in a month. (OHHhhhh :o)

 

I'm planning to reduce by .10 diazepam every 4 weeks.. and staggar this with a 10% 4 week Lyrica cut cycle. This may be more doable at higher Lyrica doses than lower, and hopefully will get me by the dose of Lyrica causing appetite and memory issues. The micro taper idea is ditched for now.. too many cons... and the tiny cuts are a pain in the touchas!

 

This has been a slow evolution toward accepting the psychotropic reality we live with. Reading articles discussing hypotheses (did I get that right?) on how neurotransmitters adapt to mind altering meds has helped enormously. What seemed unreal is made more concrete. Thanks for the efforts of those who contributed.

 

Schuyler, I think you'd be better served going quite a bit more slowly. 50% of your Lyrica in one month, when you're already in withdrawal, and also in the middle of trying to regain homeostasis on your Valium? sounds like a recipe for some suffering to me. And the thing is, you don't just risk suffering, but every time you destabilize (read: screw up, read: mangle) your brain's delicate chemical homeostasis, it's just going to be harder and slower the next time around.

 

I know tinnitus is driving you nuts nuts nuts, but it's not lethal.

 

Is there any way you can persuade yourself to slow it down? to something more like Alto recommends, or personally I would say given your recent history, even more conservative than that. Like, hold your current Lyrica cut for two weeks, change nothing else at all. If you're feeling 100% stable, make another 10% cut and hold for three.

 

When I've overdone it with gabapentin cuts it has taken me as long as six weeks to renormalize. I'm not saying it will take you that long, just, be aware that it's good to hold, and it's really important not to cut faster than your body's ability to heal, renormalize, and restabilize.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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Rhi.. I am going slow. What you read was what I was catastrophically doing before I got here. The plummet was what woke up the tinnitus. Read my sig line.. reduction 10% of lyrica in 4 weeks, .10 diazepam in 4 weeks.. so each is staggered and only one is done every two weeks.

 

EEEEEEEEEK, I would not revert to what I was doing before I got here. I had no idea lyrica was as noxious as diazepam and antidepressants. I was clueless then but not now! I'm ditching the micro taper idea, but not the time line. So I'll be taking 10% taper cuts, hopefully being able to revert to 3 weeks for the next Lyrica cut. I was able to ditch Lyrica almost CT in the not too distant uniformed past, so I'm hoping I can make progress on Alto's more aggressive time frame, but not counting on it. Will go according to her suggestions.

 

I'll be using Alto's hold at 4 weeks, then 3 weeks if all is okay, 2 weeks as reposted above. So far it's looking like I can go to a 3 week Lyrica cut next time as there are virtually no withdrawal symptoms so far this time round, and the benzo cuts were more aggressive earlier on than now. Only minor issues with foot cramping and insomnia that resolved in 2 days. In 3 weeks, hopefully I can get to 225 mgs L. BUT NOT SOONER! I need to be mindful of the tail end of the benzo taper. I've been tapering the benzo for 23 months and it may now take another 10 to get off that monster.

 

Thanks for caring.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Ears going crazzyyy. Definitely withdrawal. Going to be a slowww taper with four week holds it appears. Groannn.

 

Just read about Tramadol. Will think to search the site for info of this sort in future.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Schuyler,

 

I am sorry you are suffering so much with tinnitus. I have it myself off and on. Sometimes it really gets to me. My doctor told me it is usually medication related. I know my ears scream like mad for a couple of days when I taper down Effexor XR. I have not found anything that helps. If you do, please post about it :)

 

Daisy

Effexor XL 2009-2012. CT 150mg Effexor XR  2012, Effexor XR  75mg  2012  then rapid taper to 0, Reinstated Effexor XR 13mg then updosed to 20mg, Tapered to 18mg Effexor XR 4/9/12, Off Effexor XL ?Reinstated  Effexor XL 150 mgs  August  2012, Crashed in November 2012, Prozac 40 mgs 2012 to Feb 2018, Buspar 60  mgs 2012-stopped 2015, Remeron 7.5 mgs as needed for sleep-stopped Feb 2017, Prozac 50 mgs Feb 2018 to March 2018, Lexapro 5 mgs March 18 2018 to May 17th 2018, Lexapro 2.5 mgs  May 18th to May 26th 2018, Prozac 10 mgs May 15th 2018, Prozac 5 mgs May 19th 2018 to current day May 28th 2018,  Xanax 0.25 mgs to 0.5 mgs daily for over 15 years. Increased Xanax to 1.5 mgs Sept 2012, Tapered Xanax to 0 mgs  May 2013.Reinstated Xanax Feb 2017 at 0.125 mgs as needed, Gradual increase of Xanax to 1.5 mgs daily till May 22nd 2018, Xanax 1.25 mgs daily. Holding

 

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Schuyler,

 

I am sorry you are suffering so much with tinnitus. I have it myself off and on. Sometimes it really gets to me. My doctor told me it is usually medication related. I know my ears scream like mad for a couple of days when I taper down Effexor XR. I have not found anything that helps. If you do, please post about it :)

 

Daisy

 

Hi Daisy, thanks for your reply. I was just starting to flagellate myself for not stabilizing long enough. Tinnitus kept me awake all last night because it got so loud.. up around an 8 for 24hrs. But it's now waning again, back to a 2, which is as good as it has been since this it started at the beginning of March. Heh, so much for it not being withdrawal.. denial number 2 dispatched. The first being tinniuts was not related to the benzo withdrawal. My thought is this episode is dropping off so quickly because I slowed the benzo taper from .25mgs every 2 weeks to .10 every 4 weeks. Wayyy slower, and the last cut of .10 was 2 weeks back.

 

Scream is a good way to describe it. Murderous, brutal. ~S

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Hokay, a few questions on mixing, dosing, etc. I've been having tinnitus since the 30 mg cut of last week. Ouch. In stereo. Both ears. Had a window yesterday, but last night it set in again with a vengeance and I slept almost not at all (60 mins). The insomnia was not due to withdrawal, just the non stop racket.

 

Next hopeful cut will be on May 19, and then I'll start Lyrica cuts once a week, for 1/4 of the 10% reduction so if there is an tinnitus uptick, I can hold on a smaller drop. No problems with lag time catching up because tinnitus kicks in in 3 days. The timing of the next drop should work out to an overall hold time for 6 weeks before I start again. I hope enuf to stabilize.

 

Planning to take take a small cut off diazepam in 1.5 weeks if the ringing idles again, and will journal if there is any change as a result. This will be far enough away from any Lyrica cut so I can tell if the .10 mg diazepam monthly cut is too much. I know, it probably is to much to take any, but I've reduced from .5 mgs a month to .10, so this is an improvement.

 

K.. now that anyone reading is thoroughly bored, the questions

 

1)TID dosing. I should revert to TID. Barring noise reduction issues, there is no taper related insomnia, so my sleep actually is generally better. I can dose TID again. Would 8AM/3PM/10PM work out okay? This is still not spread out evenly, but acceptable? Can I just shift the 8AM/8PM doses to the altered schedule without a risk of aggravating the tinnitus? The last time I changed times, it was to shift from 11AM/11PM to 8AM/PM so the change had to be gradual, but the issues would not be the same going to the TID schedule?

 

2)Mixing... I use one 300 mg capsule of Lyrica, and dilute the powder with 30 CCs of water every day. I've gotten good at this, but only do one days' dose at a time as I'm concerned about uneven dosing. There is not a whole lot of liquid suspension left at the bottom of the pill bottle, and when I eyeball the syringes, the dose is uneven. If the suspended particles are uneven in the syringes, might not the 5CCs left from the days dose (2.5CCs) that I'm discarding have an uneven amount a well. So, the logical step would be to mix 3 days dose, so I can get the syringe into the middle of the solution. But would this not cause more unevenness with dosing.

 

3)For syringes.. I put clear nail polish on to protect the markings on the syringes, but this is chipping off.. are there better ways to preserve them.

 

Sorry if I seem too taken up with the process here, but my ears are making me crazzyyy! So I'm looking for anything I might be missing. Does scotch tape work better. I did not go that route as it would make the markings cloudy, but perhaps not?

 

THANKS FOR READING :rolleyes: If it sounds like I'm perseverating on this, you are correct. ARGH.. I don't like this

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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1) Don't know if shifting your doses around will aggravate the tinnitus. Do it gradually, by one hour a day, and see.

 

2) Your homemade Lyrica solution will keep for 5 days, refrigerated. I've never had trouble mixing it.

 

3) If the markings on your syringes are coming off, get more syringes. You can buy them by the box from a medical supply store, or maybe a veterinarian will sell you a bunch at a time.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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1) Don't know if shifting your doses around will aggravate the tinnitus. Do it gradually, by one hour a day, and see.

 

2) Your homemade Lyrica solution will keep for 5 days, refrigerated. I've never had trouble mixing it.

 

3) If the markings on your syringes are coming off, get more syringes. You can buy them by the box from a medical supply store, or maybe a veterinarian will sell you a bunch at a time.

 

Sounds like I need to wait until I'm less symptomatic to revert to TID. It would help if I was now, but maybe getting there from here would be less than helpful at present, guess it's best to hold off a coupla weeks.

 

I'll get some more syringes. The Vet assistants acted as though they were doing me a big favor to sell me 4, but a surgical supply might be the answer. I'll see if there is one that can help.. sounds like there might be, and the oral opening at bottom is not awkward, as this one is. It's like an opening within and opening.

 

Thanks..

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Find a compounding pharmacy in your town, and buy some from them.

 

I've had Becton-Dickinson and Baxa oral syringes; the markings wear off only after many months of use.

 

I wash them by hand, just rinsing them out with a little soap and hot water, and let them air-dry.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Find a compounding pharmacy in your town, and buy some from them.

 

I've had Becton-Dickinson and Baxa oral syringes; the markings wear off only after many months of use.

 

I wash them by hand, just rinsing them out with a little soap and hot water, and let them air-dry.

 

Thanks Alto, the markings on the ones I'm using are so poor they start to rub off with the first use. Will check the options. I'm also going to ask if they have some larger bottles I can mix the solution in.. I can't mix more than 20 CCs of solution with what I have.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Hey Schuyler,

I'm reading! I'm sorry the tinnitus is so bad. I can't imagine. That would be maddening.

Your posts always come full circle - you state your update, kick yourself around a bit, explain your revised plan. All with self-deprecating humor. You have a wonderful gift for writing!

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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Hey Schuyler,

I'm reading! I'm sorry the tinnitus is so bad. I can't imagine. That would be maddening.

Your posts always come full circle - you state your update, kick yourself around a bit, explain your revised plan. All with self-deprecating humor. You have a wonderful gift for writing!

 

Hi Barb, The tinnitus is improved today, better by a margin. I'm still hopeful it will remit, go dormant, as the sound is maddening. Evidently tinnitus is most often in one ear?, and this I can cope, but when it surrounds I metamorphose a nut. !@#, My right ear just turned back on but the lopsided window was very nice, and a harbinger of more.

 

I love to sculpt words.. you caught me flat handed and I feel observed. :blink: Word tumbles are fun when they change the paradigm. Heh, they are the reason I edit and reedit, hopefully different patterns.

 

Did you have a good time this past weekend.. you mentioned going to the concert, but not how much you were able to flat out enjoy.

 

FYI I put a link in my sig line to an article in accord with the way I see the world. The writing is dense, but then, so am I. :rolleyes:

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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You can use any jar to make the solution. You may wish to make a 2:1 solution, putting 300mg Lyrica in 150mL water.

 

You will have to remember 1mL = 2mg Lyrica.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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You can use any jar to make the solution. You may wish to make a 2:1 solution, putting 300mg Lyrica in 150mL water.

 

You will have to remember 1mL = 2mg Lyrica.

 

Hi Alto, I'm doing 1:1 now. I thought you had previously expressed a concern as to whether 300 mgs. of Lyrica would dissolve in as little as 150 mLs, so I've been doing the previous? In any case, given I'm going to be coming down by 1/4 of 10% or the previous dose every week (starting in about 3 weeks), it would be easier to measure with a larger amount of solvent?

 

I'm going to look around for a compounding pharmacy tomorrow.. or a supply store and throw the 4th dose away for now. There is no way to mix the way I am reliably. I wonder if this is the improvement I'm feeling today, though I'm doubtful. Probably the episode is just starting to resolve, still, I need to mix more reliably.

 

Regarding switching to a TID dose, I'm not sure where you want me to move one hour at a time? The best I can do is shifting to 8AM/3PM/10PM. 1) Are these intervals good enough. They are not 8 hours apart, but 7/7/9. I can't do better because of my sleep schedule.. I'll start feeding insomnia by having to set an alarm to wake up at 12AM to take the last dose. I would move the 8PM to 10PM in steps, but am confused as to how to switch from BID to TID dose wise. I would just divide the total by 3 instead of 2, to make the 3 doses at 8AM/2PM/8PM, then move the 2 hours slowly forward? That seems awkward, as I'd be then initially only taking 1/3 the dose to cover the time period between 8PM and 8AM, while taking 2/3 for the other 12 hr period. Think I'm missing something in the translation here?

 

Yeah.. tinnitus is at a ONE!!! I was pretty morose after the Wed. night escapade.. but since then it's been up hill. I'm thinking the episode will stop.. tinnitus will stop. It may be that I only took 1/5th of the diazepam on 4/16, who knows. I'm not complaining!!

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Dilute as most convenient for you.

 

I don't know what the interval of TID dosing for Lyrica should be. You'll have to adjust your schedule and see how it works for you. Make changes gradually.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Dilute as most convenient for you.

 

I don't know what the interval of TID dosing for Lyrica should be. You'll have to adjust your schedule and see how it works for you. Make changes gradually.

 

How do you do TID for Lamactil? And I will ask the pharmacist about the times..

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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I don't do TID for Lamictal. Lamictal has a half-life of about 24 hours. Lyrica's is much shorter, about 5–6.5 hours. That's why you may be feeling it after 7 hours or so.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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