success ☼ Skyler, the benzo-Lyrica connection

[meistersinger]

 

Barb, I'm a little unclear and I never heard of CPS before, but mostly I'm not sure what service you would be looking for them to provide. From the little I can gather, they would offer supportive services, something like case management? What does the CPS you know in PA say. I can see the fit with geriatrics.. sounds like a good background for this.

 

Sorry to be unclear-looking at this as potential job, not service for myself. I see an opportunity to integrate psychopharm knowledge/experience into CPS position to rationally and safely minimize meds. I suspect it's already being done after talking to several at ISEPP conference. I worked (unofficially) with CPS and clients/consumers to minimize meds or reduce dosage. Neither current doc nor patient knew why some meds being used that were started by other docs and never DCd. The docs were not opposed to tapering except for paranoid schizophrenic (murdered somebody and is generally doing ok, employed, age 55-60). This is state/community MH system - people in 30s and 40s are on 6-11 psych meds (or meds to counter side effects) at one time. I know of several people who have died in 40s and 50s of 'natural causes': heart attacks, strokes. Last week, about 5 people from 45-50 (not suicides). Exactly what Gia was discussing the other day. And im desperate to feel purposeful again - in a good way.

As I said to Jemima, I'm baffled that MH providers are not even aware of this group of providers, especially in states where they are being utilized as part of inpatient treatment team. It must be a disconnect between Medicaid system and private system.

 

There is no disconnect in the private system: it is all the beancounters who say it is too expensive to implement and maintain. Maximize profits and eliminate expenses at all costs. Just like the attitude that labor is an expense to be eliminated at all cost.

[Skyler]

About refrigerating Lyrica -- you refrigerate it to keep it from getting moldy over a period of days. Otherwise, it's fine at room temperature.

 

Awright.. I thought that it was because the solution lost potency. Bonza, I wake up at 5AM, take the dose, and turn over and go back to sleep.

 

Sorry to be unclear-looking at this as potential job, not service for myself. I see an opportunity to integrate psychopharm knowledge/experience into CPS position to rationally and safely minimize meds.

And im desperate to feel purposeful again - in a good way.

Heyyy, now you're thinking. Right on! I can think of no better medicine.

 

As I said to Jemima, I'm baffled that MH providers are not even aware of this group of providers, especially in states where they are being utilized as part of inpatient treatment team. It must be a disconnect between Medicaid system and private system.

 

The mental health system does not want to know. It's pretty much run by Big Pharma, and what you envision would be an entire paradigm shift. A humanistic approach in a world run by robo signers.

 

 

There is no disconnect in the private system: it is all the beancounters who say it is too expensive to implement and maintain. Maximize profits and eliminate expenses at all costs. Just like the attitude that labor is an expense to be eliminated at all cost.

 

Lotta truth there meister. Big Pharma pretty much rigs the whole thing. We live in a corporatocracy/kleptocracy.

[Barbarannamated]

The Anti Drug Rep.

[meistersinger]

 

About refrigerating Lyrica -- you refrigerate it to keep it from getting moldy over a period of days. Otherwise, it's fine at room temperature.

 

Awright.. I thought that it was because the solution lost potency. Bonza, I wake up at 5AM, take the dose, and turn over and go back to sleep.

 

Sorry to be unclear-looking at this as potential job, not service for myself. I see an opportunity to integrate psychopharm knowledge/experience into CPS position to rationally and safely minimize meds.

And im desperate to feel purposeful again - in a good way.

Heyyy, now you're thinking. Right on! I can think of no better medicine.

 

As I said to Jemima, I'm baffled that MH providers are not even aware of this group of providers, especially in states where they are being utilized as part of inpatient treatment team. It must be a disconnect between Medicaid system and private system.

 

The mental health system does not want to know. It's pretty much run by Big Pharma, and what you envision would be an entire paradigm shift. A humanistic approach in a world run by robo signers.

 

 

There is no disconnect in the private system: it is all the beancounters who say it is too expensive to implement and maintain. Maximize profits and eliminate expenses at all costs. Just like the attitude that labor is an expense to be eliminated at all cost.

 

Lotta truth there meister. Big Pharma pretty much rigs the whole thing. We live in a corporatocracy/kleptocracy.

 

It is not only Big Pharma: add Big Insurance: Big Finance and Big Government since the Reagan Administration. Its all about greed, and I'm just as guilty of it as the next person.

[Skyler]

I will start tapering Lyrica again on Sunday the 27th. I'm going to be cutting 2 mgs every other day, a variation of a micro taper, and holding 2 days once a week, for a total drop of 25 mgs in 4 weeks. GROAN.. it took me ONE hour to work thru the fractions.. Ach, my math skills deteriorated because of calculator apps.

 

I'm going to hold on diazepam for now, and think if I hold long enough there should be no need to updose.. will probably start to withdraw at .10 mgs a month in mid June if all is well.. if the tinnitus stays at a low roar. At least I can hope.

 

Any tinnitus uptick would signal a need to slow further. I really need to cut back on Lyrica.. I'm still managing to lose weight despite it heightening my appetite, but this is a battle. Not to mention memory stuff. Wish me luck!

 

Yesterday, while thinking of up dosing to 2 mgs of diazepam, I blew thru the 4 way stop sign at the end of my street, with THREE cars at the other signs. Yikes.. I have not had a ticket in 10 years, but at that rate I'd have quite a record. Think maybe I was trying to tell myself something?? Like STOP, don't do it. It was too long a benzo taper to go back up now, I just cannot go there. I realize other people may need to do so, but it took me 2 years to get down to 1 mg D... too much invested. I can live with a low level of tinnitus more easily than a higher dose of benzos. No U-turns.

[Barbarannamated]

That would be a tough one to explain to cops, indeed.

Ask any kid to do math today - without a calculator - and watch the face contort from "huh?" to "oh, you're KIDDING!?" to "WHY??" to ....

And my math skills aren't a heckuva lot better!

[Rhiannon]

A couple of things: I note that it was about ten days to two weeks ago that you had that glitch where you missed your Valium dose for a few days in a row. Since it can take a couple of weeks for Valium reductions to kick in, it's not surprising that you got an increase in symptoms around that time period. I think that might support your decision not to updose--once you restabilize this may be temporary.

 

Holding instead of updosing seems to produce the most consistent and predictable results overall except in the case of a sudden drastic excessive reduction in dose.

 

About your Lyrica solution, just sort of FYI if it's relevant, when I was tapering Neurontin I made my liquid solution once every 24 hours and kept it at room temperature. Sometimes I had to make it a day and a half ahead. I keep all my meds at room temp these days and I use water for mixing all of them. I've found it works just fine. They don't seem to be all that delicate. But of course your mileage may vary.

 

As always I still think the most important thing is to go slow and take intermittent holds, for as long as necessary, whenever symptoms seem to ramp up. We want so much to schedule our withdrawal (believe me, I know!) but really, healing isn't something that can be "calendared". I always recommend listening to your body and modulating your taper according to symptoms rather than according to some pre-planned schedule.

 

And I speak from much painful experience when I say this. Periodically I pull out the calendar and work out my taper with numbers and percentages and dates et cetera. It has NEVER gone according to plan and so far it's always gotten me into trouble. I'm concerned you may be setting yourself up for trouble with the Lyrica taper; you may find you need to go more slowly, or you need breaks at times other than the ones you're planning. Just--

 

here: Here's a permission slip. You hereby have permission to adjust your schedule as needed as you go.

 

But anyway, as far as the tinnitus getting worse, I suspect it could be related to the glitch in your Valium a while back; Valium metabolites are cumulative in the body and it can take a long time for them to build up and a long time to fall down, so a wobble in dosing ends up producing an effect quite a ways out. I personally like the idea of you holding your Valium and not updosing. (Apparently your subconscious agrees! :->)

[Skyler]

A couple of things: I note that it was about ten days to two weeks ago that you had that glitch where you missed your Valium dose for a few days in a row. It's not surprising that you got an increase in symptoms around that time period.

Problem is, I’m still in an uptick from that…or maybe it’s just the way it is for now.

 

I keep all my meds at room temp these days and I use water for mixing all of them. I've found it works just fine. They don't seem to be all that delicate. But of course your mileage may vary.

Yes.. thanks, I just got from Alto that it is an issue of mold, but I don’t keep the solution much long, so that should not be an issue.

 

As always I still think the most important thing is to go slow and take intermittent holds, for as long as necessary, whenever symptoms seem to ramp up. Healing isn't something that can be "calendared".

Yup, I just want to get a move on because of side effects from Lyrica.

 

Periodically I pull out the calendar and work out my taper with numbers and percentages and dates et cetera. It has NEVER gone according to plan and so far it's always gotten me into trouble. I'm concerned you may be setting yourself up for trouble with the Lyrica taper

I never went too fast because of a plan, but do get into trouble without one as I don’t take the right cuts if I don't have a schedule. I've been tapering for 2 years, and so far no plan has gotten in the way of listening to my body, but thanks for your concern. Plans help me keep my sanity in this taper morass, but I realize many people rigidly keep to plans to their detriment. Humm, I just posted a response to someone on BB because who left me the ubiquitous warning about not holding too long on a benzo because of 'Tolerance Withdrawal, the TRAP mantra.

[Barbarannamated]

I'm amazed at how you both are able to attribute/track changes by change in dosage. I'm so up and down throughout the day, I don't know if I'd recognize a "normal" day or pattern. I missed Klonopin last nite and it just hit me about an hour ago - dizzy, etc. Bruxing was immediate.

[Skyler]

I'm amazed at how you both are able to attribute/track changes by change in dosage. I'm so up and down throughout the day, I don't know if I'd recognize a "normal" day or pattern. I missed Klonopin last nite and it just hit me about an hour ago - dizzy, etc. Bruxing was immediate.

 

Danged klonopin, I got stuck because it was the 'best' treatment for hypnic jerks. What I had was violent, and did not let me sleep at all.. I may have a better article on hypnic jerks and will put it up if I find it.. Anyhow, the symptoms don't change so fast from diazepam because of the long half life. I take it you have tried and nothing else helps you clenched jaw? Is some of this related to the stress you are feeling now? The Bruxism sounds really severe.

 

Sorry you have the dizzies.. and hope you feel better soon.

[Barbarannamated]

Dont want to hijack your thread. Posted this earlier:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2302-klonopin-still-working-for-bruxism-after-15-years/page__pid__22745#entry22745

[Skyler]

UPDATE.. today is the first day I've been sure the episode tinnitus is breaking since the diazepam screw up of two weeks ago. I will hold for 1 to 2 weeks more.. I so would rather taper with the symptoms 'turned off' rather than down. Then I can use their reemergence as a sign I need to slow, as opposed to constantly second guessing whether the volume is increasing or just changing.

[Altostrata]

Ya gotta keep an eye on those drug half-lives.

[Skyler]

Ya gotta keep an eye on those drug half-lives.

 

 

I did but saying I was going to cut, even if I really knew I'd hold, had a salutary effect on my patience.

 

BTW.. I am having an easier time mixing the capsule suspension using 300 mg. capsules of Lyrica. They do not stick when I twist the two sides of the capsules apart, taking the two 150s apart was much more difficult and it was harder to dump all of the contents. I don't know how much the arthritis in my fingers may have gotten in the way, but it had to be some. My fingers look like the limbs on an old gnarled oak tree.

[Daisy]

Hi Schuyler,

 

I do not have the patience tonight to read much so forgive me if what I am about to post has been addressed here on your thread or somewhere else on this forum. I have Tinnitus and have been searching for relief, even if it is temporary. I have found a site called "Simply Noise." It has White, Pink and Brown noise. I have found the Pink noise drowns out my Tinnitus and has even lessened it. Also "The Great Bell Chant.(the end of suffering)" on player.vemic has helped for some reason. It may have something to do with the sound frequency.

 

Daisy

[Skyler]

Hi Schuyler,

 

I do not have the patience tonight to read much so forgive me if what I am about to post has been addressed here on your thread or somewhere else on this forum. I have Tinnitus and have been searching for relief, even if it is temporary. I have found a site called "Simply Noise." It has White, Pink and Brown noise. I have found the Pink noise drowns out my Tinnitus and has even lessened it. Also "The Great Bell Chant.(the end of suffering)" on player.vemic has helped for some reason. It may have something to do with the sound frequency.

 

Daisy

 

Hi Daisy, this has not been addressed. I play my favorite radio shows close to 24/7 to mask sound, those being a classical music station and the BBC. Can you tell us more about Pink noise, maybe give a link? This conversation might also be good on the tinnitus thread so it does not get buried here. link thru

 

Good to hear from you though I wish the circumstances were better. Are you still cutting? I was feeling better, but almost directly after posting it went 'south' again. I just want it to be GONE, as in don't we all. It's really hard to hold and believe the noise will remit, though I do. Seems like I'm "waiting, and waiting, and waiting".

 

Looking forward to hearing more from you,~S

[Altostrata]

http://simplynoise.com/

 

Thanks for the suggestion, Daisy.

[Skyler]

Hi Alto... The tinnitus I'm having is not all due to the half life time for the benzos, that is pretty much out of play after 7 days. But the neuro leaning that keeps the bells and whistles in play, that's what is going on here. Still, if I hold until the end of next week, then use a micro taper I think it may be possible to start cutting again. Sigh.. the benzo is on hold for the foreseeable future.

 

The point remains however, HOLDING is HARD.

 

FYI ..I posted a response to someone on the benzo forum (nothing to do with the people who run same). To someone I was on TRAP with, mentioning I'd be holding. After a gentle prod reminding me that Tolerance Withdrawal would raise it's ugly head, to which I responded that TD is a myth, I was snubbed. By every TRAP grad who uses the busy thread. Sad. ~S

[Skyler]

okay... Yawnnnn. I've been holding for the last 3 weeks. Tinnitus is again at a level 2 and fading, too slowly, but fading. I may be able to start tapering again in 2 weeks. I'm hoping the tinnitus stops in the next 7 days, add a week of total quiet, and start micro tapering.. reduce 3 mgs a week, one every other day, then hold an extra day at the end of the week. Tedious for sure.

 

Pet peeve, not enough people here post about the trials and tribulations of holding for prolonged periods. The is duced difficult. Main thing is I loathe withdrawal symptoms, of any kind. All the way down from 2 mgs of K to 1 mg of diazepam my cowardly lion was a blessing. Unfortunately this did not save me from screw ups when launching onto a two drug taper. Oh well.. at least I'm looking forward to ditching this stuff again.

[Altostrata]

Very good to hear your tinnitus is going away.

 

You may wish to micro-taper Lyrica at even smaller decrements of .5mg or so, don't want to touch off the tinnitus again.

[Skyler]

Very good to hear your tinnitus is going away.

 

You may wish to micro-taper Lyrica at even smaller decrements of .5mg or so, don't want to touch off the tinnitus again.

 

I need to get to the compounding pharmacy to pick up the syringes, hopefully they will be easier to draw up consistent amounts. .. would you use a 10 cc for say 7 CCs, and then a 1 mg syringe to measure, for example 2.5 mgs. I'm using 1 mg to 1 CC.

 

Hopefully you are thinking of .5mgs a day for 6 days, hold one??? I hope, I hope, I hope.... groan, I want to get of this stuff in this lifetime, maybe? sigh..

 

Thanks!

[Altostrata]

There's a 5mg oral syringe, too.

 

You'd have to see how a .5mg decrease influences the tinnitus and adjust the rate to minimize symptoms.

[Skyler]

There's a 5mg oral syringe, too.

 

You'd have to see how a .5mg decrease influences the tinnitus and adjust the rate to minimize symptoms.

 

Yeah, I'll get some of those, thanks. And if I need to go really sloowww for awhile, maybe it would not be all the say down.

 

Angel looking over my shoulder :rolleyes:

[Skyler]

Yesterday I took a very bad fall. I went to the local fruit stand, and slipped on a small patch of water. The cement floor turned to ice. Right down I went, landing on the worst trigger points. I have fibro (for a substantial group of us, it’s not a waste basket diagnosis.. we had it before relatively stringent standards were relaxed. Firbo is chronic and does not go away, but the symptoms do wax and wane. Pain is always real, it's just that fibro has it's own unique profile.)

 

The bands in my muscles are very prominent now, and when I try to sleep the trigger points feel like marbles against the mattress. Just typing this up, my shoulder is tingling and currents of electricity are running down the opposite side.. trigger points firing. Were I not on Lyrica (I may need to stay on 25 mgs.. dunno if this is possible) I’d be having neuropathic pain that takes my breath away.. the pain would make me unsafe behind the wheel because it is so distracting. The reason I do work online.

 

Speaking of which, I’ve just started to really work again, up from the small dribble that kept my hand in. And I’m not going to stop.. but this is not going to be easy. The fear of this sort of fibro flare, the elephant in my room .. was what drove me to the awful choice of my last partner.. I will not cave, but I’m going to need to set a timer for no more sitting than 30 mins at a timer when I’m at the computer (been here too long this AM.. only the timer for sitting though, not for other activities.. eeek) and no laying down more than 30. No standing for more than 15 mins, etc., hour after hour of tedious body mind needed to pull out. At least this flare will get me back into the pool where I can move without as much fear.

 

This will go on for months.. hopefully no more than 3, though in the past it’s gone for much much longer. I’m wiser now, much stronger.. so I'm resting my fears squarely where they belong. On my own resolve and inner strength.

 

A bit of humor.. a PS if you will. The cat just stepped on the remote, turning the TV on.. all of a sudden it was last night again, but I did really turn it off before sleeping?.. but it was not on when I woke up... DUH??

[Rhiannon]

Yesterday I took a very bad fall. I went to the local fruit stand, and slipped on a small patch of water. The cement floor turned to ice. Right down I went, landing on the worst trigger points. I have fibro (for a substantial group of us, it’s not a waste basket diagnosis.. we had it before relatively stringent standards were relaxed. Firbo is chronic and does not go away, but the symptoms do wax and wane. Pain is always real, it's just that fibro has it's own unique profile.)

 

The bands in my muscles are very prominent now, and when I try to sleep the trigger points feel like marbles against the mattress. Just typing this up, my shoulder is tingling and currents of electricity are running down the opposite side.. trigger points firing. Were I not on Lyrica (I may need to stay on 25 mgs.. dunno if this is possible) I’d be having neuropathic pain that takes my breath away.. the pain would make me unsafe behind the wheel because it is so distracting. The reason I do work online.

 

Speaking of which, I’ve just started to really work again, up from the small dribble that kept my hand in. And I’m not going to stop.. but this is not going to be easy. The fear of this sort of fibro flare, the elephant in my room .. was what drove me to the awful choice of my last partner.. I will not cave, but I’m going to need to set a timer for no more sitting than 30 mins at a timer when I’m at the computer (been here too long this AM.. only the timer for sitting though, not for other activities.. eeek) and no laying down more than 30. No standing for more than 15 mins, etc., hour after hour of tedious body mind needed to pull out. At least this flare will get me back into the pool where I can move without as much fear.

 

This will go on for months.. hopefully no more than 3, though in the past it’s gone for much much longer. I’m wiser now, much stronger.. so I'm resting my fears squarely where they belong. On my own resolve and inner strength.

 

A bit of humor.. a PS if you will. The cat just stepped on the remote, turning the TV on.. all of a sudden it was last night again, but I did really turn it off before sleeping?.. but it was not on when I woke up... DUH??

 

Hi Schuyler--I'm so sorry about the fall and the increase in your fibro symptoms. Gentle hugs...

 

Just because you're gently tapering your Lyrica doesn't mean you have to suffer. Like you say, you may be able to find a lower dose that helps with the pain but still gives you relief from the worst of the side effects. I noticed with my Neurontin taper that my cognitive problems improved all the way down in the taper.

 

There's lots of room between all and nothing. (My current favorite Rhiannonism.)

 

Congratulations on getting back to work. You rock! your own resolve and inner strength is a force to be reckoned with!

[xDebbiejo]

I'm sorry too Schuyler to hear about your fall

 

I wish you better soon

 

Debbie x

[Skyler]

Hi Schuyler--I'm so sorry about the fall and the increase in your fibro symptoms. Gentle hugs...

 

I'm sorry too Schuyler to hear about your fall

 

I wish you better soon

 

Debbie x

 

Thanks to both of you.. it's going to be a tough go. The symptoms did not finish 'blooming' until this morning, and the picture is not good. So now it's a matter of guts. Sigh.. And Rhi, I'll look to holding where there is a still a clinical effect when I get that low. I would think that going off when I'm not so clinically active with the fibro, then back on Lyrica again is no longer an option.

 

Alto, I'm going to start cutting today at the rate you suggested, just cut 1 mg every other day. I'm also going to tweak the diazepam, but by half what I was intending. Lessee, yes, by .05 a month. The ringing did not stop after all but a wave. The tinnitus is at a more tolerable level, and I'll take that. Oh.. it did seem to totally stop for a couple of hours. SILENCE really is golden. Oh well, maybe I'll be tapering so slow as to be under the symptom radar and they will not get worse. Hope this is clear enough.. not feeling so hot.

 

Oh, one other question. I suspect your answer will be no, but what would happen if I had a couple of stiff 'ones' a day for a few days. Sure would cushion the first week of the fibro uptick. I have not had so much as the monthly 2 beer allowance in several mos.

 

~S

[annej]

S,

 

I am so sorry you took quite a tumble. I hope your pain level decreases soon!

 

I have to stop sitting in front of the computer for more than 30 minutes as well. My bodily pain is worsened by periods of sitting. Thank you for the reminder. Hugs, Annej

[Skyler]

S,

 

I am so sorry you took quite a tumble. I hope your pain level decreases soon!

 

I have to stop sitting in front of the computer for more than 30 minutes as well. My bodily pain is worsened by periods of sitting. Thank you for the reminder. Hugs, Annej

 

Thanks annej, this is going to be a tough go. Glad to hear my 30 min stop will help. I need to use a kitchen timer because it is so easy to lose track.

[Barbarannamated]

Schuyler,

I'm so sorry to hear this. You've helped me tremendously. I wish there was something I could do for you.

I understand that the pain of fibro is VERY real and debilitating, if not incapacitating. My use of term "trashcan/wastebasket" does not mean that the distress is any less than other chronic pain. I apologize if I ever seemed to imply that. That couldn't be farther from the way I feel.

 

{{{Careful hugs}}}

 

B

[Rhiannon]

Thinking of you Schuyler...

[Skyler]

I put this in again in the event you missed it. Is the cut unwise? The sounds are still subsiding, but I'm wanting to get a move on..

 

Alto, I'm going to start cutting today at the rate you suggested, just cut 1 mg every other day. I'm also going to tweak the diazepam, but by half what I was intending. Lessee, yes, by .05 a month. The ringing did not stop after all but a wave. The tinnitus is at a more tolerable level, and I'll take that. Oh.. it did seem to totally stop for a couple of hours. SILENCE really is golden. Oh well, maybe I'll be tapering so slow as to be under the symptom radar and they will not get worse. Hope this is clear enough.. not feeling so hot.

 

Oh, one other question. I suspect your answer will be no, but what would happen if I had a couple of stiff 'ones' a day for a few days. Sure would cushion the first week of the fibro uptick. I have not had so much as the monthly 2 beer allowance in several mos.

Guess it's okay to quote oneself?

Thanks Alto

[Barbarannamated]

LOL!! Just so you credit original source!! Does that mean one can't plagiarize oneself?

[Altostrata]

Benzo tapering is not my specialty. You need to listen to your body. Based on your experience, does that seem like a small drop or a large drop?

 

Schuyler, I'm not the one you need to negotiate with! I can't tell you if a 1mg decrease every other day is going to be tolerable for you. Given your sensitivity to withdrawal, I wouldn't rush it. I'd make a cut (can't say 1mg or what, I'm very cautious, I might try .5mg) and wait a while to see what happens.

[Skyler]

Benzo tapering is not my specialty. You need to listen to your body. Based on your experience, does that seem like a small drop or a large drop?

I only asked because you previously commented on the proposed slower rate of the benzo taper. I'll cut .10 of a mg. and what I first decided after realizing I needed to slow.. this is 1/5th of the previous cut rate. At least I won't be holding on both lyrica and diazepam that way.

 

Schuyler, I'm not the one you need to negotiate with! I can't tell you if a 1mg decrease every other day is going to be tolerable for you. Given your sensitivity to withdrawal, I wouldn't rush it. I'd make a cut (can't say 1mg or what, I'm very cautious, I might try .5mg) and wait a while to see what happens.

 

I'm just trying to hold.. or cut. Argh. I've been at this dose for almost 2 months (the screw ups have made this interminable). I'll be doing 2 or 1 mg every so many days meaning the amount of overall drop is the same (.5 a day vs 2 every 4 days). Cutting at .5mgs small is a pain because I need to measure out in two different syringes, on top of the one I already use for diazepam, which is the main reason I asked. I'll just see what happens for now.. thanks for your help. Sorry to strain your patience.. it's a reflection of how I feel holding.

 

My sense is this is jut to nitty between the two doses. For sure, I don't how Rhi does it!!!

[Barbarannamated]

SCHUYLER!!

,

Put the mouse down and step away from the computer...

 

S-L-O-W-L-Y .... you can do it.